Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[DogManStar]

From a Smash boomer that supported , , and since the Melee days, I would like to know from all of y'all how long you've guys been supporting Isaac? Was it back during the Melee days? Brawl? Smash 4? Or even Ultimate?

I started supporting a little bit after the ballot ended. Smash 4 was my first game so I didn't really know that much about the community yet and didn't bother looking into the most popular characters on the ballot until around the time it was ending. I think I voted for Andy. Since then though, I've tried to push a lot for Isaac.

 

[THE 6r]

From a Smash boomer that supported , , and since the Melee days, I would like to know from all of y'all how long you've guys been supporting Isaac? Was it back during the Melee days? Brawl? Smash 4? Or even Ultimate?

Smash 4, but I've only been active here since Ultimate.

 

[Gioka]

From a Smash boomer that supported , , and since the Melee days, I would like to know from all of y'all how long you've guys been supporting Isaac? Was it back during the Melee days? Brawl? Smash 4? Or even Ultimate?

Personally since Brawl but I wasn't an active pusher until 4. Then opened an account here for Ultimate's base roster speculation

 

[pupNapoleon]

I've supported Isaac since Brawl, which is the first time I speculated regularly.
I'm sure when I first played 64 I did too- who else would be fun. But at that point I barely lknew the characters there were. My gaming spectrum was stuck to just a few games plus untitled arcades and friends' houses. I wouldn't have known how to quantify what i wanted then.

 

[Mav485]

I started looking for Isaac’s inclusion after Melee. Like many others, Sonic was the one I wanted most for Brawl. Isaac was a close second and has been at the top of my list since Sonic’s reveal. Mega Man was the only other one that ever got close to reaching the same levels of hype for me.

 

[Qeomash]

Golden Sun was one of my favorite games during the Melee era. When Brawl was announced I figured Isaac was a lock for being a playable character. I was disappointed by the AT then, but I figured it meant he was likely for the next one.

I will never stop hoping he gets in; Golden Sun deserves better than what it's gotten.

 

[Tetiro]

From a Smash boomer that supported , , and since the Melee days, I would like to know from all of y'all how long you've guys been supporting Isaac? Was it back during the Melee days? Brawl? Smash 4? Or even Ultimate?

It was as far back as Brawl for me but since then I have been loyal. This year I finally completed the entire saga and loved it!

 

[Midget Master]

I've kind of just floated around Smash speculation and never been too passionate about it since Brawl. I had some characters I would want to get in (mostly older ones, probably the first thing I REALLY wanted was to see Mewtwo back in Smash 4, and that worked out nicely) but was mostly just along for the ride. But when Ultimate came out I got some thing I really never expected to have - all of the old characters back, and K. Rool. I'd always loved DKC, and always kinda thought "well, it sure would be nice" for K. Rool to make it in, but I kinda wrote him off as being impossible. Once he made it though? I was pretty much in deep.

Now I've got some pretty specific wants and Isaac is at the top of the list. He's exactly the kind of character that I always would have liked in Smash, but also would have always believed would never be in Smash, until we got Ultimate. This game is a chance for all of those characters that so many people have been hoping for for years to show up, all in the same place. And I just think that would be awesome. That they would be there along with my silly Melee favorites like Young Link is just the icing on the cake. So I pretty much want Ultimate to go as far as it can, both in terms of fan requests and characters in general. It feels like a Smash game they made with me in mind.

And it doesn't hurt that I have way more fun playing it than I've had with 4 and Brawl.

 

[Hydewell]

The smash fandom tends to do this funny thing of making up fan rules and alienating certain characters from being supported and then when said character gets added, go on about how this character makes sense and the rule that was holding them back never applied to them because of such and such a reason. People will do the same to Isaac, he'll go from being this obscure dead series impossibility to, nah he was always inevitable lol.

Yeah, I always love how revisionist are some people in the smash fandom (though tbf I do also that sometimes).

We get that. This compounds with the *several* other GS references found in the game, however.

Well, there're two references, and one is this music...

From a Smash boomer that supported , , and since the Melee days, I would like to know from all of y'all how long you've guys been supporting Isaac? Was it back during the Melee days? Brawl? Smash 4? Or even Ultimate?

Probably between Brawl and Smash 4. In Brawl's time I already played Golden Sun, but I didn't know it was Nintendo's property, so when I saw him as an AT I was very surprised.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

From a Smash boomer that supported , , and since the Melee days, I would like to know from all of y'all how long you've guys been supporting Isaac? Was it back during the Melee days? Brawl? Smash 4? Or even Ultimate?

Smash 4 DLC. I got into Smash years after Brawl came out but before Smash 4 was announced, but at the base game I cared more about Shulk.

Getting a chartacter that causes me to feel the same way I felt during Shulk's reveal back then is the only thing stopping me from truly loving Ultimate, and Isaac is the only character I see ever getting in that could do that.

 

[roydgriffin]

From a Smash boomer that supported , , and since the Melee days, I would like to know from all of y'all how long you've guys been supporting Isaac? Was it back during the Melee days? Brawl? Smash 4? Or even Ultimate?

When his Assist trophy was shown on the official Brawl Dojo I thought for the first few seconds he had just been announced as a character and was extatic to say the least, immediately dissappointed when I realised he's not playable.
Up until this point I hadn't even considered him as a possible candidate, simply because I didn't think he would have a chance at all to be in smash.

But since that day I wanted him to be playable the most of all possible characters. Still waiting!

 

[Sabrewulf238]

From a Smash boomer that supported , , and since the Melee days, I would like to know from all of y'all how long you've guys been supporting Isaac? Was it back during the Melee days? Brawl? Smash 4? Or even Ultimate?

I started supporting him during the Brawl days, though I was bit more focused on Isaac from Smash Wii U/3DS onwards.

Since Melee was my first game I wasn't really supporting characters for inclusion back then.

 

[KoopaSaki]

Hey guys what are the counter arguments I can use whenever the naysayers claim issac can’t get into smash cause of these reasons:

ATs won’t get promoted in the same game

Golden sun isn’t a relevant series

Camelot being 2nd party and the fact that they only make Mario sports games now.

Already got mii costume spirits and AT in base game. Arguably that’s all we get.

 

[DogManStar]

Hey guys what are the counter arguments I can use whenever the naysayers claim issac can’t get into smash cause of these reasons:

ATs won’t get promoted in the same game

Golden sun isn’t a relevant series

Camelot being 2nd party and the fact that they only make Mario sports games now.

Already got mii costume spirits and AT in base game. Arguably that’s all we get.

2nd party status doesn’t matter otherwise we wouldn’t have so many FE characters. Relevancy is a problem but irrelevant characters and series have made it in before, so Isaac should be able to as long as he is popular enough. ATs could get promoted in the same game, Sakurai has never said he won’t do that.

 

[MeatOfJustice]

Hey guys what are the counter arguments I can use whenever the naysayers claim issac can’t get into smash cause of these reasons:

ATs won’t get promoted in the same game

Golden sun isn’t a relevant series

Camelot being 2nd party and the fact that they only make Mario sports games now.

Already got mii costume spirits and AT in base game. Arguably that’s all we get.

1. Rules have been broken before, and it's possible to break more (excluding being a videogame character). It's all up to what Nintendo and Sakurai think.
2. Banjo-Kazooie isn't one either but Banjo & Kazooie got in anyways.
3. It didn't matter for Pokémon and Fire Emblem. It didn't matter for Banjo & Kazooie.
4. But arguably not. There are more possible spirits we could get (like party members and villains), and more importantly, we didn't get new music.

 

[Midget Master]

To me the rules only really exist until there's demand for them to be broken. I mean, like, it's not NOT a thing at all, but if people want something enough then they're not going to be like "well we'd love to make this fighter, but they're a spirit or an AT or whatever else".

They might not immediately prioritize these characters over other ones, but that just speaks to the importance of getting out there and making it known that you support them. Isaac's fanbase is big enough that it kind of forces the issue at some point, which I think is something he has in his favor over even someone like Geno. It goes beyond just being a "hey, let's make these fans happy" and starts to become "we're kinda leaving a lot of money on the table if we don't do this" from Nintendo's point of view.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

ATs won’t get promoted in the same game

Just a fan rule and Sakurai and team can do as they please if they want to upgrade him.

Golden sun isn’t a relevant series

Nether is Banjo-Kazooie.

Camelot being 2nd party and the fact that they only make Mario sports games now.

If Nintendo sees a lot of people wanting a new Golden Sun, they might push Camelot to make a new game.

Already got mii costume spirits and AT in base game. Arguably that’s all we get.

"And 6 music tracks."

How many characters can you name that isn't playable that has all of that content? None really. Don't underestimate Isaac.

 

[Diddy Kong]

From a Smash boomer that supported , , and since the Melee days, I would like to know from all of y'all how long you've guys been supporting Isaac? Was it back during the Melee days? Brawl? Smash 4? Or even Ultimate?

I began supporting in the Melee days,there where topics around already of which characters should be included in a 'potential next Smash game'. Around that time, all I cared about was Diddy getting in, as I felt he was missing the most. So I guess pre-Brawl. I also came to support Isaac, but was a bit more quiet about it untill Diddy being confirmed in August 2007. Even then, I still had other characters I supported; K Rool, Ike, "Wind Waker Link" (Toon Link), Krystal, Lucas, and then Isaac. I've been around for quite some time.

 

[SonicLink125]

"And 6 music tracks."

How many characters can you name that isn't playable that has all of that content? None really. Don't underestimate Isaac.

Correction. There’s only 2 music tracks that were ported over from Smash 4.
•The Felix Battle/Final Boss Remix from Brawl
•Dark Dawn Weyard Theme rip from Smash 4

But yeah, we are super close! All that Golden Sun needs is a fighter, a Stage and NEW music (plus more Spirits).

 

[Gurein]

Wanted Isaac ever since Brawl! Was so happy to see Golden Sun representation back in the day. Though Shulk's and Richter's inclusion got me VERY hype, I couldn't enjoy the games as much as I would've liked because of Isaac's absence as playable character.
Now we got an AT, a pretty good mii costume, a bunch of spirits and a very strong and loyal fanbase. We just need to keep PUSHING

 

[Guynamednelson]

From a Smash boomer that supported , , and since the Melee days, I would like to know from all of y'all how long you've guys been supporting Isaac? Was it back during the Melee days? Brawl? Smash 4? Or even Ultimate?

Admittedly it was very recent for me. I tried out the leaked Project M version of him and liked him, and actually got around to playing Golden Sun once the Smash fanbase assumed he was inevitable after the August 8 Direct's newcomers.

 

[SkeffVEVO]

From a Smash boomer that supported , , and since the Melee days, I would like to know from all of y'all how long you've guys been supporting Isaac? Was it back during the Melee days? Brawl? Smash 4? Or even Ultimate?

I've supported Isaac since Smash 4 but he wasn't one of my top requests until Smash 4's DLC. I actually wasn't a fan of the series yet when I first started supporting Isaac, I just knew that he had cool moveset potential, a great design, and a huge fan support, which made me want him. I actually didn't get around to playing all three Golden Sun games until 2017, but I fell in love with the series ever since I played the first game.

 

[SonicLink125]

I've supported Isaac since Smash 4 but he wasn't one of my top requests until Smash 4's DLC. I actually wasn't a fan of the series yet when I first started supporting Isaac, I just knew that he had cool moveset potential, a great design, and a huge fan support, which made me want him. I actually didn't get around to playing all three Golden Sun games until 2017, but I fell in love with the series ever since I played the first game.

It always puts a smile on my face when I hear how newcomers learn of Golden Sun. Makes me remember when I first played the games many many years ago. It really makes me want a Golden Sun remake even more so (as well as getting Isaac in Smash) so that more people can be introduced to this wonderful series.

 

[Bassoonist]

From a Smash boomer that supported , , and since the Melee days, I would like to know from all of y'all how long you've guys been supporting Isaac? Was it back during the Melee days? Brawl? Smash 4? Or even Ultimate?

Isaac has been my #1 most wanted character for Super Smash Bros since I played Golden Sun back in 2002.

 

[SPEN18]

All this talk of the Brawl days reminds me how weird it is to think of getting an AT as being a detriment to future chances.

Back then (as in after Brawl came out but before Smash 4 was announced) I pretty much viewed the ATs as either enemies (Hammer Bro.), things that wouldn't work easily as playables (Andross), or "runner-ups" who would've been playable had there been more slots. When Smash 4 speculation began I was expecting multiple AT promotions. Even now we haven't gotten nearly as many as I thought would've happened in this amount of time.

 

[Xenigma]

For me, I think the most accurate statement is that I've been hoping for Isaac in Smash since the pre-Brawl days, as I don't think I'd really considered the possibility until there was a new Smash game on the horizon. At that point it was mostly talking to friends about the possibility, and then pre-Sm4sh I joined SmashBoards to talk with fellow fans online. Since then the biggest change has been an increase in urgency: the more time that passes without a playable Smash character or a new game, the more it feels like the series will just fade into obscurity. As much as I love Nintendo, seeing that happen to series like GS, F-Zero, and Wars is a difficult pill to swallow, and I feel like Isaac in Smash is one of the best ways for them to show that their dormant series still matter, even if only a little.

I will say that I'm still very much open to being surprised by whatever characters do get into Smash. For example, while I don't blame many people for being indifferent to Terry Bogard, as a fighting game fan I'm thrilled to see Sakurai give a nod to Fatal Fury/King of Fighters, another huge part of fighting game history not unlike Street Fighter. Seeing my local FGC group blow up post-reveal was really cool to see, as even if people weren't really asking for him, basically everyone in that scene likes Terry. Similarly, I was incredibly excited to see Castlevania be immortalized in Smash, even if Simon and Richter weren't my personal favorites from the series (I grew up on the portable games starting with Circle of the Moon, and my favorite protagonist remains Soma Cruz). I may not love every inclusion (Shulk in Sm4sh when Isaac was MIA hurt, as did PP as the first Ultimate DLC), but it's worth it to get cool characters I hadn't otherwise considered like Bayonetta or Joker. Just please Nintendo, please, give Golden Sun the recognition it is due!

 

[SonicLink125]

https://twitter.com/GS_****posts/status/1173704483554988032
Don’t you hate it when shopping carts do that.

 

[SNEKeater]

Correction. There’s only 2 music tracks that were ported over from Smash 4.
•The Felix Battle/Final Boss Remix from Brawl
•Dark Dawn Weyard Theme rip from Smash 4

But yeah, we are super close! All that Golden Sun needs is a fighter, a Stage and NEW music (plus more Spirits).

Maybe it's just me but I always find strange we don't have Isaac Battle theme in Smash. I'm not saying that confirms him as a DLC character in the future, but I don't know... maybe I'm wrong but it's the most popular and iconic track from Golden Sun (and very catchy. I think that song should be in the game even if Isaac it's playable or not. Hell, he's actually an assist and I think him being in the game without his battle theme is wrong.

I don't have anything against Felix battle theme, I like it. But that track being in the game before Isaac's one... I don't know. It's like putting Ken's theme for Ryu, and not his own song.

 

[Dukemon102]

I'm a very new Golden Sun fan. But the reason why I played the first two games was because I was curious about the support for Isaac.
I had a GBA in the early 2000s but I was a guy that was into Pokémon, Mario & Luigi and Metroid. I never knew of Golden Sun until I saw Isaac's Assist Trophy in Brawl and I started to see the requests for Isaac in many fan rosters for future games . Also, Geno's popularity surprised me as well. I always liked Mallow as a character more don't tell the Geno support thread that.

Because you guys have been supporting him for more than a decade at this point. He truly deserves to be in, his games are fantastic, he is a good character, and has great moveset potential for original specials or even Djinn gimmicks (People say Robin or Hero made him obsolete, I laugh at that).
Both Isaac and Geno's fandoms have been fighting and having their dreams crushed many many times over the years.
The fact that you all still have hope in Isaac besides the AT status and in having a new Golden Sun game, was that made me play the first two games and love them.

Don't worry guys, as a Metroid and a Donkey Kong fan that has struggled the massive droughts, there's always hope for a new game, it may take time, but it will come.

 

[Nazyrus]

Hey guys what are the counter arguments I can use whenever the naysayers claim issac can’t get into smash cause of these reasons:

ATs won’t get promoted in the same game

Golden sun isn’t a relevant series

Camelot being 2nd party and the fact that they only make Mario sports games now.

Already got mii costume spirits and AT in base game. Arguably that’s all we get.

I seriously can't wait what stupid fan made rule they will have to come with after he or geno gets in, lol. They wil always come up with something for sure…

 

[ArkSPiTFirE]

I've wanted Isaac in since Pre-Brawl. I was a fan of the Golden Sun games back on the GBA when I was at school and I played a lot of melee. When Brawl opened up the chance for more fighters, I thought Isaac would be a great addition, but not very high priority. I was glad he had an assist trophy because it meant to me that he had recognition and maybe someday he would be playable.

Then I completely skipped Smash 4. Mostly because I didn't have a Wii U, but also because my fun playing Brawl had teetered off quickly, so I just wasn't as hype. Hearing Isaac didn't make it didn't help either. Who was this Shulk person in his place? I felt a twang of wanting to play when Cloud was revealed, but he wasn't quite worth buying a Wii U for. I ended up waiting for Ultimate to play Cloud for the first time.

So I got back into Smash when it was revealed for Switch, I knew I would get it right away this time and I was really on board with the hype. I added myself to this board sometime after the 'Everyone is here' reveal, since I figured this would be his best shot to get in. Then all the unintentional Isaac teases got the better of me and I was convinced he was a lock. Queue mega disappointment in November 2018 when he was revealed as an AT again. I watched it at work and I was miserable for the rest of that day.

But then all the Golden Sunday events started happening and I was pleased to see all the posts supporting Golden Sun on Twitter. The new DLC has given me a lot more hope, but I won't be as let down as I was in November, should he not get in.

Edit: Also if Isaac isn't in the next one, I probably won't buy it, whether he makes it into Ultimate or not.

 

[THE 6r]

I seriously can't wait what stupid fan made rule they will have to come with after he or geno gets in, lol. They wil always come up with something for sure…

"Coming up with rules that don't exist" is the motto of this site.

 

[Hydewell]

Hey guys what are the counter arguments I can use whenever the naysayers claim issac can’t get into smash cause of these reasons:

ATs won’t get promoted in the same game

Golden sun isn’t a relevant series

Camelot being 2nd party and the fact that they only make Mario sports games now.

Already got mii costume spirits and AT in base game. Arguably that’s all we get.

Apart from everything people has said, I would add Camelot are still interested to do RPGs, when the Camelot bosses said two years ago they wanted to make a new Shining Force. So, even they're doing Mario sport games those last years, they're asking to do something different.
And, obviously, relevancy doesn't matter in Smash anymore. Some of the new 3rd parties aren't very relevant (FFury, Bayo, Banjo, maybe Persona (it has great sales and a really good fanbase, but I don't think it shaked the JRPG genre...) and some Nintendo franchises with characters aren't (KI, PO, IC...). Nintendo characters have others parameters, they don't need to be iconic or hyper recognizable,

The other two points are subjective for both points of view, and if they don't want Isaac (or any other character), they won't ever listen any of your arguments.

 

[Pinguino21v]

From a Smash boomer that supported , , and since the Melee days, I would like to know from all of y'all how long you've guys been supporting Isaac? Was it back during the Melee days? Brawl? Smash 4? Or even Ultimate?

I really started to be a Nintendo fan and a Smash player with the Wii and Brawl. I already have played and loved Golden Sun at that time but I wasn't well aware of the fandom. I started to have hopes for a few characters in Sm4sh time, by hoping for Robin (for being a mage, no Chrom please), Shulk thanks to my newly best rated game XCX, and of course Isaac. That wasn't the surest bet but I got two of these three picks and was happy with that.

Then DLC came in, and no Isaac to the horizon...

For Ultimate, my list of "most wanted" contained something like 6 or 7 "doable" characters. None got in, even accounting DLC. I'm sad but I keep hope.

I may not love every inclusion (Shulk in Sm4sh when Isaac was MIA hurt

Who was this Shulk person in his place?

I got lucky on this, XCX was available in EU earlier and was able to get used and even love the character before his appearance. I was amused by all these "who tf is this" reactions.

I've supported Isaac since Smash 4 but he wasn't one of my top requests until Smash 4's DLC. I actually wasn't a fan of the series yet when I first started supporting Isaac, I just knew that he had cool moveset potential, a great design, and a huge fan support, which made me want him. I actually didn't get around to playing all three Golden Sun games until 2017, but I fell in love with the series ever since I played the first game.

The fact that you all still have hope in Isaac besides the AT status and in having a new Golden Sun game, was that made me play the first two games and love them.

This kind of story is something I really like: people who discover and like the game thanks to Smash discussions. That makes me confident in the fact that Golden Sun is a good serie, underrated, and deserving better.

 

[Bassoonist]

Apart from everything people has said, I would add Camelot are still interested to do RPGs, when the Camelot bosses said two years ago they wanted to make a new Shining Force. So, even they're doing Mario sport games those last years, they're asking to do something different.
And, obviously, relevancy doesn't matter in Smash anymore. Some of the new 3rd parties aren't very relevant (FFury, Bayo, Banjo, maybe Persona (it has great sales and a really good fanbase, but I don't think it shaked the JRPG genre...) and some Nintendo franchises with characters aren't (KI, PO, IC...). Nintendo characters have others parameters, they don't need to be iconic or hyper recognizable,

The other two points are subjective for both points of view, and if they don't want Isaac (or any other character), they won't ever listen any of your arguments.

Fatal Fury and Banjo are both very inactive series (from my understanding, I know nothing about Fatal Fury, but its Wikipedia says the last release was in 1999 - there might be some continuation to the franchise I don't know of). Bayonetta is getting a Bayonetta 3, though, and Persona is a very active series with Persona 5 Royal and a Persona spinoff for the Switch in development. I don't really know where anyone would get the idea that they are "irrelevant" in terms of activity. I would definitely say that Persona is hardly relevant to Nintendo, which is the more important point to me, but that doesn't matter anymore for SSB. *sighs*

The problem with Isaac is if the leak is accurate. If it is, then Golden Sun not having seen a recent release is considered by the team to be the reason he can not be included (and note that the leak even said "regardless of popularity"). It doesn't matter what kind of logic we try to come up with regarding to whether or not other characters have been held up to that criteria or not, that's the official reason for him not being included.

Sakurai and the team have always, well to put it bluntly, played favorites. The "must have a recent release" rule seems to be suspended for certain new character inclusions. The problem with this is that from what we've seen so far, it's always been one of two categories - neither of which benefit Isaac - 1. NES and before Retro characters or 2. Third parties.

Granted the second category is a new exception. The thing is I still don't think it means a celebration is in order, because third party character inclusions have become wild and all over the place. I can't celebrate that two characters from inactive franchises are included, because I do feel like third party characters - like retro characters - are their own category, and thus different rules apply for them.

 

[THE 6r]

Fatal Fury and Banjo are both very inactive series (from my understanding, I know nothing about Fatal Fury, but its Wikipedia says the last release was in 1999 - there might be some continuation to the franchise I don't know of). Bayonetta is getting a Bayonetta 3, though, and Persona is a very active series with Persona 5 Royal and a Persona spinoff for the Switch in development. I don't really know where anyone would get the idea that they are "irrelevant" in terms of activity. I would definitely say that Persona is hardly relevant to Nintendo, which is the more important point to me, but that doesn't matter anymore for SSB. *sighs*

The problem with Isaac is if the leak is accurate. If it is, then Golden Sun not having seen a recent release is considered by the team to be the reason he can not be included (and note that the leak even said "regardless of popularity"). It doesn't matter what kind of logic we try to come up with regarding to whether or not other characters have been held up to that criteria or not, that's the official reason for him not being included.

Sakurai and the team have always, well to put it bluntly, played favorites. The "must have a recent release" rule seems to be suspended for certain new character inclusions. The problem with this is that from what we've seen so far, it's always been one of two categories - neither of which benefit Isaac - 1. NES and before Retro characters or 2. Third parties.

Granted the second category is a new exception. The thing is I still don't think it means a celebration is in order, because third party character inclusions have become wild and all over the place. I can't celebrate that two characters from inactive franchises are included, because I do feel like third party characters - like retro characters - are their own category, and thus different rules apply for them.

Which makes Golden Sunday on October 27th all that more important to advocate for the return of GS in general, not just Isaac from smash

 

[DogManStar]

Fatal Fury and Banjo are both very inactive series (from my understanding, I know nothing about Fatal Fury, but its Wikipedia says the last release was in 1999 - there might be some continuation to the franchise I don't know of). Bayonetta is getting a Bayonetta 3, though, and Persona is a very active series with Persona 5 Royal and a Persona spinoff for the Switch in development. I don't really know where anyone would get the idea that they are "irrelevant" in terms of activity. I would definitely say that Persona is hardly relevant to Nintendo, which is the more important point to me, but that doesn't matter anymore for SSB. *sighs*

The problem with Isaac is if the leak is accurate. If it is, then Golden Sun not having seen a recent release is considered by the team to be the reason he can not be included (and note that the leak even said "regardless of popularity"). It doesn't matter what kind of logic we try to come up with regarding to whether or not other characters have been held up to that criteria or not, that's the official reason for him not being included.

Sakurai and the team have always, well to put it bluntly, played favorites. The "must have a recent release" rule seems to be suspended for certain new character inclusions. The problem with this is that from what we've seen so far, it's always been one of two categories - neither of which benefit Isaac - 1. NES and before Retro characters or 2. Third parties.

Granted the second category is a new exception. The thing is I still don't think it means a celebration is in order, because third party character inclusions have become wild and all over the place. I can't celebrate that two characters from inactive franchises are included, because I do feel like third party characters - like retro characters - are their own category, and thus different rules apply for them.

Honestly, their loss if they decide to skip over Isaac just because he doesn't have a new game while not extending the same treatment to third parties. Banjo and Isaac seemed pretty close in demand, why include Banjo but not Isaac? Just because he's third party now? I really just doubt that leak because I feel like it would be a massive oversight on their part to not include Isaac just because there's no new game even though they know for certain now that people want him specifically as playable, not just an AT or mii costume. Also, that leaker made it sound like Sakurai was reluctant to continue DLC when he has made it seem like an exciting prospect to him even if it means more work. He could just be trying to save face, but he reiterated this in the last column, which makes me doubt that possibility. We can't really be certain of any of this yet I guess. We'll just have to hope that all of our campaigning and reactions have so far reached them and continue to do so. Just keep drawing attention to GS and Isaac.

Also as far as I know Terry is still appearing in games even though Fatal Fury is not around. I think he's in King of Fighters a lot and there was that SNK Heroines game that came out last year which had the female Terry that got memed a lot. Although I haven't really played any of these series yet so I don't know for sure.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I think he's in King of Fighters a lot

He's a member of its perfect attendance crew.

 

[Bassoonist]

So Terry is a regular character in video games since. That changes a lot in regards to him.

Well, even though I do believe the rules are different for third parties, I don't think that means no one can take any optimism from Banjo & Kazooie's inclusion. It certainly is incredible - they're from an inactive series which is now owned by a rival company, seemingly the only factor that could have brought them in Smash is to appease fans. I don't want to claim that with absolute certainty, but it does seem like the only logical conclusion.

Banjo's inclusion is super interesting even with third party exceptions to the rules in mind.

 

[SNEKeater]

About Terry, he appears regularly in King of Fighters games as well in some other games like Fighting EX Layer.
I really like his inclusion.

And well I guess Sakurai sees Banjo & Kanzooie as a retro character, or at least more than Isaac. I don't think Banjo got in because it's a third party character. If that's the reason it would be because it's actually a property from Microsoft, besides the story of Banjo with Nintendo in the past. A character from Microsoft is a big deal because as Sakurai said in the presentation of Banjo, they're technically rivals. So I guess that maybe helped a bit? I don't know.

I would say Banjo had a bit more of fan demand than Isaac but yeah, even if I love retro/random characters like Duck Hunt or Game & Watch, I don't like the mindset of "anything retro is better because it's retro". I don't believe Sakurai thinks in that way, but clearly he has more love and fond memories of those games and characters, at least in general.
For some people GBA games are already retro or classic games. But I have a feel some people underestimate handheld games because yes. And I don't get that, some of the best games in my personal list were released on a handheld console.

Maybe if Golden Sun was released in Gamecube things would be different. Maybe Sakurai played the first Golden Sun and don't enjoyed it much, which is fine. I don't know. The thing is still supporting Isaac and new Golden Sun games (or a remake of the first two). He clearly knows about the demand about Isaac. At that point and depending of how he and Nintendo will approach the next DLC fighters, the demand and support for Isaac should be louder than ever because even if he miss again the chance of joining Ultimate, at least we will keep Isaac in the minds of Sakurai and Nintendo for the next Smash.
And as long we will keep talking about Golden Sun and trying to bring it back more people will be aware of the franchise and Isaac, and at the same time people who already knew about GS maybe eventually will decide to play Golden Sun for curiosity. These things are positive for Golden Sun and Isaac.

With more people knowing and talking about Isaac for Smash the chances for him increases.