Sunrise Up Again! Isaac for Smash Ultimate DLC

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I agree that Isaac would offer more in terms of a stage, music, and spirits. But even though I would argue Isaac is more popular and requested in the Smash community Waluigi is far more recognizable and popular outside of it.

It really could go either way. But I don’t believe in the Paragon leak so I don’t think either are getting into the Pass. Maybe extra DLC afterwards. I’d prefer Isaac to get into the Pass because I think if we get extra DLC characters later on they probably won’t come with the stage and all of that extra stuff.
I think even if Isaac doesn't make it into the Pass, he could still come later, since there'll be an extra stage slot, since six were left open at release.
 

Sabrewulf238

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I don’t believe in the Paragon leak. But if it is true then there is some hope Isaac could make the jump to playable after the Fighter Pass.

If of course we get more DLC.
What is this paragon leak?

My main concern with a second fighter pass, is that maybe Sakurai will double down on more third parties. So characters like Isaac or Waluigi still won't get a chance. I mean there are definitely still third party characters with support behind them, Phoenix Wright and Crash Bandicoot come to mind. Support for Spyro will probably jump when the remasters of his games come out on Switch. Then of course you have Lara Croft. She seems like the next "big" third party that would have the power to shock people. Of course you also have Rayman, who I'm honestly surprised hasn't been added as a playable character yet.

That said it certainly seems like the third parties with big impact are kind of few and far between now.
 

ZelDan

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I think even if Isaac doesn't make it into the Pass, he could still come later, since there'll be an extra stage slot, since six were left open at release.
Isn't that last slot used for custom stages if somebody made them in their game?

That's what I've heard anyways, I've never made a stage myself.
 
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What is this paragon leak?

My main concern with a second fighter pass, is that maybe Sakurai will double down on more third parties. So characters like Isaac or Waluigi still won't get a chance. I mean there are definitely still third party characters with support behind them, Phoenix Wright and Crash Bandicoot come to mind. Support for Spyro will probably jump when the remasters of his games come out on Switch. Then of course you have Lara Croft. She seems like the next "big" third party that would have the power to shock people. Of course you also have Rayman, who I'm honestly surprised hasn't been added as a playable character yet.

That said it certainly seems like the third parties with big impact are kind of few and far between now.
Some leaker apparently named everything in the E3 presentation as well as BotW2. The BotW2 part was apparently not show to any journalists beforehand so he has to have some inside sources. This guy claims Frisk from Undertale and Waluigi are the last characters in the Fighter Pass.

I think he comes from PapaGeno’s discord and told PapaGenos about all of this stuff weeks before the E3 presentation.

He might be legit but it reminds me too much of LoZ18. If it’s true though and Waluigi gets promoted, then possibly sky is the limit for Isaac.
 
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NessAtc.

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Isn't that last slot used for custom stages if somebody made them in their game?

That's what I've heard anyways, I've never made a stage myself.
custom stages get a separate page, once the pass is done it will still be empty and aggravate everyone
 

ZelDan

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Some leaker apparently named everything in the E3 presentation as well as BotW2. The BotW2 part was apparently not show to any journalists beforehand so he has to have some inside sources. This guy claims Frisk from Undertale and Waluigi are the last characters in the Fighter Pass.

I think he comes from PapaGeno’s discord and told PapeGenos about all of this stuff weeks before the E3 presentation.

He might be legit but it reminds me too much of LoZ18. If it’s true though and Waluigi gets promoted, then possibly sky is the limit for Isaac.
IF there's more DLC beyond the fighter's pass, which hopefully there. Whether it be another pass (perhaps a smaller one), individual packs, or maybe even more bonus fighters.
 

Sabrewulf238

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Some leaker apparently named everything in the E3 presentation as well as BotW2. The BotW2 part was apparently not show to any journalists beforehand so he has to have some inside sources. This guy claims Frisk from Undertale and Waluigi are the last characters in the Fighter Pass.

I think he comes from PapaGeno’s discord and told PapeGenos about all of this stuff weeks before the E3 presentation.

He might be legit but it reminds me too much of LoZ18. If it’s true though and Waluigi gets promoted, then possibly sky is the limit for Isaac.
Interesting...

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing Undertale get a playable representative. I know it's seen as a meme in the Smash community but it is a game I really enjoyed playing and I think it has had a fair impact, at least in terms of indie games. (plus Undertale has awesome music)

Would it have been hard to guess that a legend of zelda sequel would be announced though? Maybe he just got lucky. It's not the hardest thing in the world to imagine that they'd be working on another legend of zelda for the Switch. Did they specifically leak that it was a sequel or did they just say a new Zelda would be announced for Switch?
 
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Interesting...

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing Undertale get a playable representative. I know it's seen as a meme in the Smash community but it is a game I really enjoyed playing and I think it has had a fair impact, at least in terms of indie games. (plus Undertale has awesome music)

Would it have been hard to guess that a legend of zelda sequel would be announced though? Maybe he just got lucky. It's not the hardest thing in the world to imagine that they'd be working on another legend of zelda for the Switch. Did they specifically leak that it was a sequel or did they just say a new Zelda would be announced for Switch?
He definitely could have just guessed the BotW2 part, but the fact that he apparently knew the whole direct would insinuate that he has insider sources.

And even if he does have a source that doesn’t mean he knows the last 2 fighters. He could easily make that part up. That’s what LoZ18 did.
 

ZelDan

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Interesting...

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing Undertale get a playable representative. I know it's seen as a meme in the Smash community but it is a game I really enjoyed playing and I think it has had a fair impact, at least in terms of indie games. (plus Undertale has awesome music)

Would it have been hard to guess that a legend of zelda sequel would be announced though? Maybe he just got lucky. It's not the hardest thing in the world to imagine that they'd be working on another legend of zelda for the Switch. Did they specifically leak that it was a sequel or did they just say a new Zelda would be announced for Switch?
Eh, guessing there'd be a BotW sequel at some point wouldn't be a longshot. Saying we'd get to see it happen at this E3 specifically is a bit more noteworthy though I think, maybe not THAT noteworthy but nothing that should be sweeped aside atleast.

That said, do we know who this leaker is? Does this person have any sort of history, reputation, or credibility? Do we know this isn't someone who got to see the direct earlier than others and is screwing around with people because of it?
 
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Paragon (I think his name is) supposedly leaked Hero and Banjo to PapaGenos a week or so before the Direct as well as saying BotW2 would be announced. I think there’s a screen shot of the post. I don’t know...

He might have seen the Direct beforehand because some journalists did see it. But apparently BotW2 wasn’t show to them. So it’s totally possible he just guessed that and got it right.

It’s really hard to determine if he knew or has a source that knew or he’s just another lucky guesser. He might have guessed right and just threw Frisk and Waluigi in there to get people talking like LoZ18 did with Skull Kid.

I don’t buy the leak. But I’ll admit it has a little more to it than that other stupid “female fighter” leak going around where that person is just being incredibly vague.
 

Sabrewulf238

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Isn't that last slot used for custom stages if somebody made them in their game?

That's what I've heard anyways, I've never made a stage myself.
No, custom stages appear in their own tab at the top of the stage select screen.

So far there isn't really an explanation for that extra stage slot. Probably the most reasonable (boring) explanation is that they just can't avoid having blank space. (which seems a little strange to me but ok)
 

THE 6r

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While I'm somewhat comfortable with the idea that Paragon would know the E3 presentation, I'm less confident about him knowing the last two picks. That's probably the most heavily guarded information within Nintendo, only known to a select few and even then probably it's strictly on a need to know basis. I'm not ready to put stock into this leaker (considering how well it turned out for me the last time I believed one).
 

Diddy Kong

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I think it might even go without saying we’re getting a second wave of DLC. Just compare the DLC cycle of Ultimate to Smash 4’s. Smash 4 already had a blooming meta game before the release of the final DLC characters, Corrin, Cloud and Bayonetta.

Right now, we know just about all the characters already except for one. The Switch is still rather young, as well as Ultimate, and the game will probably be kept relevant as long as the Switch- or they will at least attempt to.

What I kind of expect is them adding new DLC characters of great upcoming first party Nintendo titles. A Fire Emblem Three Houses character is quite expected now for example, but I also expect something out of the new Zelda (sequel to BotW not Links Awakening), Metroid Prime 4, Pokémon Sword and Shield, and hopefully a Donkey Kong game which is yet unannounced.

I also expect new Echoes, new stages, game modes of previous Smash titles and whatever else was absent from Ultimate. The next Smash title will likely be Ultimate’s Definite Edition with some newcomers who have been highly requested but denied this time around, for example Isaac, Skull Kid, Elma / Rex, Captain Toad, Monster Hunter... name a few.
 

Tetiro

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What is this paragon leak?

My main concern with a second fighter pass, is that maybe Sakurai will double down on more third parties. So characters like Isaac or Waluigi still won't get a chance. I mean there are definitely still third party characters with support behind them, Phoenix Wright and Crash Bandicoot come to mind. Support for Spyro will probably jump when the remasters of his games come out on Switch. Then of course you have Lara Croft. She seems like the next "big" third party that would have the power to shock people. Of course you also have Rayman, who I'm honestly surprised hasn't been added as a playable character yet.

That said it certainly seems like the third parties with big impact are kind of few and far between now.
Seriously, what is up with Nintendo not giving Rayman a spot? Nintendo seriously needs to sort this out as now with Banjo-Kazooie in, there's now no excuse for their exclusion.

As for big impact, you have Crash, Spyro, Rayman, Doomguy, Geno, Shovel Knight, Sora, Shantae and Crono at the very least. You essentially have a whole Fighter Pass right there.

But you are right. They are running out of big impact fighters from the third party pool. I just hope next Smash they pay heed to their first party pool
 

Sabrewulf238

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My guess is because Rayman is basically a complete unknown in Japan. All his games bombed, of the ones released there.
That's interesting. Ever since we got four different hero characters from Dragon Quest I've felt like it solidified the idea that Sakurai wants characters with worldwide appeal. (why we didn't just get Erdrick)

Out of interest, how do Crash, Spyro and Lara Croft fare in Japan in terms of game sales and overall awareness?
 
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ZelDan

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That's interesting. Ever since we got four different hero characters from Dragon Quest I've felt like it solidified the idea that Sakurai wants characters with worldwide appeal. (why we didn't just get Erdrick)

Out of interest, how do Crash, Spyro and Lara Croft fare in Japan in terms of game sales and overall awareness?
I hear Crash is actually popular in Japan as well. Not so sure on Spyro or Lara Croft.
 
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N3ON

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That's interesting. Ever since we got four different hero characters from Dragon Quest I've felt like it solidified the idea that Sakurai wants characters with worldwide appeal. (why we didn't just get Erdrick)

Out of interest, how do Crash, Spyro and Lara Croft fare in Japan in terms of game sales and overall awareness?
Yeah, Crash is definitely among the most popular western characters in Japan. Spyro isn't, his localization was botched and most entries haven't even released there. His situation is worse than Rayman's. I'd say Lara is somewhere in between the two, though her I'm least sure on.
 

StormC

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That's interesting. Ever since we got four different hero characters from Dragon Quest I've felt like it solidified the idea that Sakurai wants characters with worldwide appeal. (why we didn't just get Erdrick)

Out of interest, how do Crash, Spyro and Lara Croft fare in Japan in terms of game sales and overall awareness?
Using this as a reference:

https://sites.google.com/site/gamedatalibrary/home

The original Crash trilogy was huge in Japan, Crash 2 being the first western game to hit a million units (Crash 3 hitting 900k). The original Spyro got a lousy 50k in part because the Japanese release had a botched camera. The original Tomb Raider trilogy did 100k each, which is okay but nothing notable.

Outside of a few franchises like Minecraft and Crash, western games have just never lit the Japanese sales charts on fire.
 
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Tetiro

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Yeah, Crash is definitely among the most popular western characters in Japan. Spyro isn't, his localization was botched and most entries haven't even released there. His situation is worse than Rayman's. I'd say Lara is somewhere in between the two, though her I'm least sure on.
I think if Crash got in, Nintendo would try to go for a "two for one" deal. Maybe not in the same game, but you know people would start asking for Spyro the moment Crash got in.

While he is a dead dud in Japan, the western audience have shown their demands can be met. So a lack of Spyro would cause Spyro fans to speak up to very high numbers.

But then again, this assumes Activision have a soul and decide to play nice with Nintendo.
 

NessAtc.

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Can someone here give me a list of ALL the psyenergy, djinn, and summons Isaac can use in both Golden Sun games? I'm making a DB bio and it'll be a ton of help to know all (I'm watching a playthrough but I can't tell if Isaac can use all or not, and such)
most of his psynergy is on the first page
 

Pinguino21v

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As for big impact, you have Crash, Spyro, Rayman, Doomguy, Geno, Shovel Knight, Sora, Shantae and Crono at the very least. You essentially have a whole Fighter Pass right there.
That's looking with the point of view of America. It's clear that Sakurai prefer to work and put into light japanese games first. Look at the Hero, he didn't got the recognition he deserves in the west, but of japanese reaction videos I saw, he was really wanted.

Spyro, Rayman, Domguy (and somewhat Shantae) are not (re)known enough in Japan.
You can also remove Geno: he is an unknown in Europe, and Japan don't like him that much.

The more info we have, the more I think the last two will be from Capcom (Phoenix Wright, Dante or Resident Evil), Namco (most likely Tales of) or eventually Steve.
 
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MeatOfJustice

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yes on Namco, no on Capcom. Unlike Namco, Capcom isn't exactly starving for content in smash. I'm also not so sure it'll be Tales anymore
It does make sense for Nintendo to want to give another character to Bandai Namco due to them helping with Smash since 4, but Tales seems like the only realistic option to me. I doubt they would've teased Heihachi with PAC-MAN's taunt and who else is there... Dig-Dug? Klonoa? I don't see those either of those two happening soon.

As for Capcom, we could quote Thanos, but I doubt Nintendo is worried about balancing the guest companies' representation.
 

StormC

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That's looking with the point of view of America. It's clear that Sakurai prefer to work and put into light japanese games first. Look at the Hero, he didn't got the recognition he deserves in the west, but of japanese reaction videos I saw, he was really wanted.

Spyro, Rayman, Domguy (and somewhat Shantae) are not (re)known enough in Japan.
You can also remove Geno: he is an unknown in Europe, and Japan don't like him that much.

The more info we have, the more I think the last two will be from Capcom (Phoenix Wright, Dante or Resident Evil), Namco (most likely Tales of) or eventually Steve.
I mean to Geno's credit, he was a top 5 request in a Japanese magazine poll:

https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/a2tp9w/japanese_magazine_did_a_poll_asking_who_their/
 

NessAtc.

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It does make sense for Nintendo to want to give another character to Bandai Namco due to them helping with Smash since 4, but Tales seems like the only realistic option to me. I doubt they would've teased Heihachi with PAC-MAN's taunt and who else is there... Dig-Dug? Klonoa? I don't see those either of those two happening soon.

As for Capcom, we could quote Thanos, but I doubt Nintendo is worried about balancing the guest companies' representation.
KOS-MOS from Xenosaga
 
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KOS-MOS from Xenosaga
This would be pretty cool. I’ve never played the Xenosaga games, but as someone who’s favorite Switch game is XC2 and has KOS-MOS as a blade, she’s awesome.

I totally expect a Tales rep though. I don’t know who the main character of Vesperia is, but maybe that person since it’s coming to the Switch. I know Lloyd is favorite as he seems cool. I’ve never played a Tales game either.
 

StormC

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This would be pretty cool. I’ve never played the Xenosaga games, but as someone who’s favorite Switch game is XC2 and has KOS-MOS as a blade, she’s awesome.

I totally expect a Tales rep though. I don’t know who the main character of Vesperia is, but maybe that person since it’s coming to the Switch. I know Lloyd is favorite as he seems cool. I’ve never played a Tales game either.
Vesperia already came to the Switch earlier this year. :p

And the protag is Yuri, probably the most popular Tales protag overall:

 
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Vesperia already came to the Switch earlier this year. :p

And the protag is Yuri, probably the most popular Tales protag overall:

Ah, my mistake. I’ve heard good things about it. I should probably try it out.

You think Yuri is more likely than Lloyd? If he is then maybe we’d get that Lloyd costume back. At least I think he had one...
 
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StormC

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Ah, my mistake. I’ve heard good things about it. I should probably try it out.

You think Yuri is more likely than Lloyd? If he is then maybe we’ll get that Lloyd costume back. At least I think he had one...
I'd honestly call it a coin flip. Yuri is more popular among Tales fans in general, Lloyd is more popular among Smash fans and Lloyd is the one who got the nod from Sakurai. Not only did we get the Mii costume, Sakurai said "could it be anybody but Lloyd?" when asked which Tales character to give a costume. But Yuri is especially popular among Japanese fans, to the point where official Tales character polls banned him because he won every time.

Either way we won't get the actual best Tales protag:

 
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