Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

If the information is truthful, Nintendo of America being surprised raises some red flags. Bottom line, it doesn't speak much for the ballot results if they were unaware of how people want Isaac and Golden Sun.

Possibility A is that Isaac didn't do as well as we thought. Exit polls were unofficial, right? How many illegitimate votes did it get?

Possibility B is that only a very small handful of people (Sakurai + design team, maybe a few executives) have access to the results.

Possibility C is that they only took, what, K. Rool? from the ballot and they actually haven't been using it at all besides that.

We've all been operating on the assumption that "oh, they have the ballot data to look at" in regards to fan wants, but I really doubt that now. Either the results are inflated on our end, or Nintendo is not using the ballot results as much as we thought.

I think this might actually be the case. I’ve mentioned before that it’s possible K Rool is only in base as a “reward” for winning the whole thing.

Possibility E: The ballot results will get used for the next Smash or so, much like how the Japanese Brawl poll took years to clean up.

 

[StrawHatX]

The thing that makes me think how conflicting the idea that NoA thought we were a “small group” is the fact that we surprisingly got a lot of GS content in Smash Ultimate (except for a fighter rep, stage and new music). Unless, NoJ is not even communicating with NoA that much which doesn’t surprise me.

The whole argument that “you should be grateful for what you got” is just dumb. I see it as people trying to make sure a highly requested character gets out of the race so that their character choice has a chance to get in instead. No way am I letting Isaac out of the race just yet after how close we’ve gotten.

With that all said, I am grateful for having all the GS content we got (huge improvement from Smash 4 which was a huge disappointment to me). But i am also disappointed that we didn’t get Isaac as a fighter too. I hope we all keep fighting for him while also fight for a new GS game too.

It’s also criminal that Camelot STILL doesn’t have a fighter rep. Waluigi and Isaac are literally perfect for them and are still denied the roster. I personally believe we should STOP requesting 3rd party characters until we can get characters that deserve to be reps that are Nintendo first.

That is what confuses me more than anything. We all want more Golden Sun and we want Isaac in Smash, but I have no idea why Waluigi constantly keeps getting shafted. Even though I don’t think relevancy is as big of an issue as some people make it out to believe, if you want to pull that card you could use it against Isaac.

But Waluigi is constantly in the Mario Party games, the Mario Kart games, and all of the sports stuff. Waluigi is a very popular character and is usually in some game every year or two.

Sakurai said in a recent interview he didn’t go for the “shock value” with Piranha Plant because that only lasts briefly and it’s bit that big of a deal. He went with PP because people know him. Ummm........ people know who Waluigi is too Sakurai lol..

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

That is what confuses me more than anything. We all want more Golden Sun and we want Isaac in Smash, but I have no idea why Waluigi constantly keeps getting shafted. Even though I don’t think relevancy is as big of an issue as some people make it out to believe, if you want to pull that card you could use it against Isaac.

But Waluigi is constantly in the Mario Party games, the Mario Kart games, and all of the sports stuff. Waluigi is a very popular character and is usually in some game every year or two.

Sakurai said in a recent interview he didn’t go for the “shock value” with Piranha Plant because that only lasts briefly and it’s bit that big of a deal. He went with PP because people know him. Ummm........ people know who Waluigi is too Sakurai lol..

Probably has something to do with people not really wanting to use characters made/used by other devs and/or creators for major games/entries out of politeness (apart from the characters that are the danged main selling points, anyway). Hell, Daisy didn't get to show up in a mainline platformer at all until the division responsible for Super Mario Land merged with a different development division. Then you have Pauline appearing in Odyssey and other games once Nintendo Software Technology no longer kept making Mario Vs. DK games.

Tldr; nobody wants to step on anybody else's toes.

So, the only way for anything to happen with Waluigi would be if Camelot ended up merging with a main division. Or worse, become less active.

 

[StrawHatX]

Probably has something to do with people not really wanting to use characters made/used by other devs and/or creators for major games/entries out of politeness (apart from the characters that are the danged main selling points, anyway). Hell, Daisy didn't get to show up in a mainline platformer at all until the division responsible for Super Mario Land merged with a different development division. Then you have Pauline appearing in Odyssey and other games once Nintendo Software Technology no longer kept making Mario Vs. DK games.

Tldr; nobody wants to step on anybody else's toes.

So, the only way for anything to happen with Waluigi would be if Camelot ended up merging with a main division. Or worse, become less active.

I mean, you might have a point. But why would they be stepping on toes by moving Waluigi from AT status to playable? I don’t think Camelot would have an issue with it. They’re constantly cranking out tennis and golf games for Nintendo.

Also what platformer did Daisy show up in after Super Mario Land? I can’t recall.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I mean, you might have a point. But why would they be stepping on toes by moving Waluigi from AT status to playable? I don’t think Camelot would have an issue with it. They’re constantly cranking out tennis and golf games for Nintendo.

Also what platformer did Daisy show up in after Super Mario Land? I can’t recall.

Just cultural habit, more than anything. Stifling, but it can't be helped.

Also, Super Mario Run. Granted, it's a mobile game, but it counts.

 

[StrawHatX]

Just cultural habit, more than anything. Stifling, but it can't be helped.

Also, Super Mario Run. Granted, it's a mobile game, but it counts.

Isn’t Waluigi more of a Nintendo character anyway? If I remember correctly they specifically asked Camelot to create an evil Luigi for them to partner with Wario in the N64 game Mario Power Tennis.

I feel like Waluigi falls into the same category as King K. Rool. They don’t need Camelot around to use him. The guy who created K. Rool didn’t even know Sakurai was going to use him in Ultimate.

Isaac and other Golden Sun characters are definitely 100% Camelot.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Isn’t Waluigi more of a Nintendo character anyway? If I remember correctly they specifically asked Camelot to create an evil Luigi for them to partner with Warriors in the N64 game Mario Power Tennis.

I feel like Waluigi falls into the same category as King K. Rool. They don’t need Camelot around to use him. The guy who created K. Rool didn’t even know Sakurai was going to use him in Ultimate.

Isaac and other Golden Sun characters are definitely 100% Camelot.

Pretty sure it was the other way around. Camelot was asking Nintendo about various options and worked closely with Miyamoto to come up with Waluigi.

That doesn't mean Nintendo needs Camelot around to use Waluigi. They can and do use Waluigi all the time without Camelot's involvement. I don't think they need Camelot's involvement for Isaac either, but they usually do regardless.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Pretty sure it was the other way around. Camelot was asking Nintendo about various options and worked closely with Miyamoto to come up with Waluigi.

That doesn't mean Nintendo needs Camelot around to use Waluigi. They can and do use Waluigi all the time without Camelot's involvement. I don't think they need Camelot's involvement for Isaac either, but they usually do regardless.

Isn’t Waluigi more of a Nintendo character anyway? If I remember correctly they specifically asked Camelot to create an evil Luigi for them to partner with Warriors in the N64 game Mario Power Tennis.

I feel like Waluigi falls into the same category as King K. Rool. They don’t need Camelot around to use him. The guy who created K. Rool didn’t even know Sakurai was going to use him in Ultimate.

Isaac and other Golden Sun characters are definitely 100% Camelot.

Camelot is a second party, so it's a weird situation. It's like having a kid born of a union with a woman in another family, but both families are on pretty friendly terms with each other, yet the kid in question can just visit the first family every once in a while.

Compare this to Nintendo-published Treasure characters, the only ones who ever show up in Smash are from Sin & Punishment. Neither Marina nor the Bangai-O pilots are acknowledged.

This would be all well and good if they actually let Waluigi have a villain role that wasn't yanked at the last second...

 

[StrawHatX]

Pretty sure it was the other way around. Camelot was asking Nintendo about various options and worked closely with Miyamoto to come up with Waluigi.

That doesn't mean Nintendo needs Camelot around to use Waluigi. They can and do use Waluigi all the time without Camelot's involvement. I don't think they need Camelot's involvement for Isaac either, but they usually do regardless.

You’re right about it being the other way around. My mistake.

 

[SPEN18]

Sakurai said in a recent interview he didn’t go for the “shock value” with Piranha Plant because that only lasts briefly and it’s bit that big of a deal. He went with PP because people know him. Ummm........ people know who Waluigi is too Sakurai lol..

This is another reason why PP felt like a slap to the face. Even if you're dead set on going for a recognizable character, why not go for one that's recognizable AND popular? I guess it could have been because PP was decided on after Waluigi was already made an Assist Trophy, but Waluigi is just one example of a character they could have used over PP.

Also, they use Waluigi in lots of non-Camelot games so I don't think that's an issue at all. We've been over it all before; Camelot would have no reason not to let Nintendo use their characters, and Nintendo would have no reason not to include them because they were made by an external company. Characters from Fire Emblem (Intelligent Systems), Xenoblade (Monolith Soft), and DKC (Rare, specifically referring to Diddy and K. Rool) are in a similar situation.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Maybe the actual issue is that he's a walking joke that doesn't quite fit in anywhere. Hell, the only reason he exists at all is because they wanted Wario to have a tennis doubles partner. Even some Mario fans think he's completely superfluous (a problem that Daisy also faces).

That said, after a quick search, I came upon a reddit comment that's the closest we'll get to an answer:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nintendo/comments/3y2fc1/will_camelot_ever_give_up_the_rights_to_waluigi/

When it comes to Super Mario in particular, Nintendo has a very specific design policy, and under this design policy characters like Waluigi and Daisy wnd up being superfluous.

So as it stands, when it comes to Smash Waluigi is like Wacky Races' D. Dastardly, only in this case it's like if Dastardly got barred from the races and Muttley was allowed to participate over him.

Or perhaps he's the only character who didn't do anything noteworthy (being a main character/villain or recognizable enemy/boss) and maybe that's why he's ignored, I dunno.

In the end, it's gotta be some obscure cultural reason that makes sense over there and nowhere else.

 

[StrawHatX]

This is another reason why PP felt like a slap to the face. Even if you're dead set on going for a recognizable character, why not go for one that's recognizable AND popular? I guess it could have been because PP was decided on after Waluigi was already made an Assist Trophy, but Waluigi is just one example of a character they could have used over PP.

Also, they use Waluigi in lots of non-Camelot games so I don't think that's an issue at all. We've been over it all before; Camelot would have no reason not to let Nintendo use their characters, and Nintendo would have no reason not to include them because they were made by an external company. Characters from Fire Emblem (Intelligent Systems), Xenoblade (Monolith Soft), and DKC (Rare, specifically referring to Diddy and K. Rool) are in a similar situation.

Sakurai has been well aware of Waluigi’s popularity since Smash 4. They knew how much people wanted him far before Ultimate’s initial planning. They could have easily made Waluigi a character instead of Pirnaha Plant, but just decided not to.

I don’t understand. I respect the hell out of Sakurai and he’s a very hard worker, one of my favorite game developers, but I don’t know what goes through his head sometimes.

 

[SPEN18]

Sakurai has been well aware of Waluigi’s popularity since Smash 4. They knew how much people wanted him far before Ultimate’s initial planning. They could have easily made Waluigi a character instead of Pirnaha Plant, but just decided not to.

Yeah and this just makes it even more of a head-scratcher

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Sakurai has been well aware of Waluigi’s popularity since Smash 4. They knew how much people wanted him far before Ultimate’s initial planning. They could have easily made Waluigi a character instead of Pirnaha Plant, but just decided not to.

I don’t understand. I respect the hell out of Sakurai and he’s a very hard worker, one of my favorite game developers, but I don’t know what goes through his head sometimes.

Yeah and this just makes it even more of a head-scratcher

In any case, people have to ask him why (hopefully not in an obnoxious way) until a serious answer is finally given. It doesn't matter if it has to take years before that happens.

 

[Bladebreaker]

When it comes to Super Mario in particular, Nintendo has a very specific design policy, and under this design policy characters like Waluigi and Daisy wnd up being superfluous.

Ehhhh, I'm not so sure about that. Whoever that it was that said that didn't put forth any evidence, it's just their opinion speaking.

 

[StrawHatX]

In any case, people have to ask him why (hopefully not in an obnoxious way) until a serious answer is finally given. It doesn't matter if it has to take years before that happens.

I don’t know what kind of reasoning he could possibly give. Waluigi is a popular character that is recognizable, so he can’t try to use relevancy against him.

Don’t see how he could use the “couldn’t think of a move set” card since he made a piranha plant a character and came up with a move set for that. Or even Duck Hunt. Look at the wacky moves Sakurai gave them.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I don’t know what kind of reasoning he could possibly give. Waluigi is a popular character that is recognizable, so he can’t try to use relevancy against him.

Don’t see how he could use the “couldn’t think of a move set” card since he made a piranha plant a character and came up with a move set for that. Or even Duck Hunt. Look at the wacky moves Sakurai gave them.

It could be also because even Sakurai is barred from using Waluigi. Despite being the absolute authority on Smash. It's clear from Waluigi's AT that he can use original moves for him (and it's impossible to use him as an Echo of Luigi), so there may have been some arbitrary no-no.

Or he feels that adding him in isn't justified and fair until he's appeared in a "major" Mario entry.

Waluigi's lack of promotion is a mystery for the ages, and it will remain so until he gets into a major Mario game, if that's even ever going to happen.

 

[SorrowOfAcheron]

Honestly, I don't think PP took that much effort to conceive.

The only things that look interesting are the specials; everything else seems pretty basic (for a plant).
It's the same deal with sword characters. If you're wielding some sort of weapon, most of your moves are gonna center around it.

Simon escapes this because his series is centered around usable items.
And you can see Corrin somewhat escapes this due to the emphasis on his draconic heritage.

So I don't think it's fair to compare PP to someone like Waluigi. I imagine he would need a really wacky moveset to make him justice, unless the Waluigi fans really just want random dropkicks or elbows.

Just my 2 cents on this.

Also no hate for PP or the FE boys and gals; sword characters are actually my favorites in Smash. I love knights.

 

[Bladebreaker]

I actually just think Sakurai doesn't like Waluigi. He's human, he's not free of his biases. If he can get away with leaving him as an assist trophy, he doesn't have to deal with it. I'm sure getting trolled by salty fans didn't endear him any either. It might remain that way until Nintendo just tells him otherwise.

 

[StrawHatX]

I actually just think Sakurai doesn't like Waluigi. He's human, he's not free of his biases. If he can get away with leaving him as an assist trophy, he doesn't have to deal with it. I'm sure getting trolled by salty fans didn't endear him any either. It might remain that way until Nintendo just tells him otherwise.

I honestly think it might be something like that. I’m sure there are some characters Sakurai just doesn’t want to put in.

And I don’t know how good Waluigi’s chances are going forward because I think most will agree Smash 6 will be downsized a ton from Ultimate. We might go back to like 30 characters and that means less Mario characters.

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

I honestly think it might be something like that. I’m sure there are some characters Sakurai just doesn’t want to put in.

And I don’t know how good Waluigi’s chances are going forward because I think most will agree Smash 6 will be downsized a ton from Ultimate. We might go back to like 30 characters and that means less Mario characters.

Then...What's even the point of a sequel if people are gonna see it as a downgrade?

 

[StrawHatX]

Then...What's even the point of a sequel if people are gonna see it as a downgrade?

I didn’t say downgrade, I said downsize. Some people might see it as a downgrade because of less characters.

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

I didn’t say downgrade, I said downsize. Some people might see it as a downgrade because of less characters.

Wouldn't it be though? The majority of people buy these games for the roster, it's what's used to hype up the game as well.

 

[StrawHatX]

Wouldn't it be though? The majority of people buy these games for the roster, it's what's used to hype up the game as well.

For some it would. But some don’t like the idea of Echo Fighters or think some characters just play too similarly to others.

Let’s be real, it’s highly unlikely every new Smash game is going to bring back every single character like Ultimate did. I love having a bunch of characters to choose from. I wouldn’t mind it. But it’s a big chore.

 

[FlawedAI]

I'm personally of the opinion that the next Smash entry (and perhaps all future ones) will be built off of Ultimate, so long as Nintendo can retain the licenses to the third-parties. Also, even if Smash downsizes, I personally think fan demand characters like Ridley and K. Rool will be quite safe, so if Isaac joins, I have a hard time seeing him leaving if Smash ever downsizes again.

On Waluigi, I think it's actually a combination of the two. We know Sakurai grew up with NES era Nintendo, so N64 isn't exactly "nostalgic" to him, so Waluigi probably isn't topping a list of his favorite characters. However, I think the only thing actually keeping Waluigi back is his lack of mainline appearances, so there's not much canon to pull from. I personally don't think that's a problem, since Waluigi could be the perfect spin-off representative, but I think Sakurai's not distaste, per se, but maybe an indifference to Waluigi combined with a literal zero mainline presence are what is actually holding Waluigi back.

 

[GoodGrief741]

For what it’s worth, while I think the next Smash will feature a lot of cuts, I don’t think the roster will be pared to Melee-style numbers. Yeah, they’ll definitely cut characters that are both irrelevant and unpopular (half the Pokémon, Corrin, the Plant) and maybe pare down some franchises with too many reps (Pokémon again, Fire Emblem, Mario and Zelda) and cut Square Enix out of the deal.

That is what confuses me more than anything. We all want more Golden Sun and we want Isaac in Smash, but I have no idea why Waluigi constantly keeps getting shafted. Even though I don’t think relevancy is as big of an issue as some people make it out to believe, if you want to pull that card you could use it against Isaac.

But Waluigi is constantly in the Mario Party games, the Mario Kart games, and all of the sports stuff. Waluigi is a very popular character and is usually in some game every year or two.

Sakurai said in a recent interview he didn’t go for the “shock value” with Piranha Plant because that only lasts briefly and it’s bit that big of a deal. He went with PP because people know him. Ummm........ people know who Waluigi is too Sakurai lol..

I think the idea that Piranha Plant wasn’t meant to be a surprise character is just bull**** PR talk. We know from Smash 4 design documents that Sakurai does make characters for surprise’s sake, and none of the arguments given for Piranha Plant hold any water.

Maybe the actual issue is that he's a walking joke that doesn't quite fit in anywhere. Hell, the only reason he exists at all is because they wanted Wario to have a tennis doubles partner. Even some Mario fans think he's completely superfluous (a problem that Daisy also faces).

That said, after a quick search, I came upon a reddit comment that's the closest we'll get to an answer:

https://www.reddit.com/r/nintendo/comments/3y2fc1/will_camelot_ever_give_up_the_rights_to_waluigi/



So as it stands, when it comes to Smash Waluigi is like Wacky Races' D. Dastardly, only in this case it's like if Dastardly got barred from the races and Muttley was allowed to participate over him.

Or perhaps he's the only character who didn't do anything noteworthy (being a main character/villain or recognizable enemy/boss) and maybe that's why he's ignored, I dunno.

In the end, it's gotta be some obscure cultural reason that makes sense over there and nowhere else.

All of the points against Waluigi are also points against Piranha Plant though. It’s much more of a joke, and certainly never did anything noteworthy.

 

[JaidynReiman]

For what it’s worth, while I think the next Smash will feature a lot of cuts, I don’t think the roster will be pared to Melee-style numbers. Yeah, they’ll definitely cut characters that are both irrelevant and unpopular (half the Pokémon, Corrin, the Plant) and maybe pare down some franchises with too many reps (Pokémon again, Fire Emblem, Mario and Zelda) and cut Square Enix out of the deal.

This basically.


I think there will be cuts to make room for new additions. Most cuts will be third-parties. They'll also probably trim down the larger franchises a bit, but K. Rool and Ridley aren't going anywhere. Isabelle isn't going anywhere. Corrin, Roy, Dr. Mario, Piranha Plant, Young Link, Pichu, Incineroar, Squirtle and Ivysaur, these are the characters I feel are the most likely first-party cuts.

I don't think any first-party franchise will be cut entirely. Castlevania, Metal Gear, and FF--especially FF--are the most likely third-party cuts by a long shot. Sonic, Mega Man, Pac-Man, and Bayonetta are the safest third-parties.


Third-parties in general take up far more resources and budget. Some can be cut to make way for new ones. I still wouldn't expect anything major, though, maybe about a dozen cuts in a worst-case scenario.

 

[Rayleigh]

Steps back into the thread to talk about Issac-

TOO BAD. WALUIGI TIME.

---------------

...Ahem. I had to, sorry.

But on the point of Sakurai's interests and biases, we all known that this shows up in characters already in the roster. Donkey Kong and Bowser keep making sounds they are not known to make in their games (of which I'm personally okay with for D.K. but annoyed with for Bowser) since that appears to be how Sakurai envisions them to be. I believe a few people made videos about Bowser's representation in Smash...and how it contrasts with his Son and the Koopalings. That's the big one that gets to me.

So maybe Sakurai just doesn't really know Waluigi, and, to be on topic: Issac, well enough. I mean- I like Issac's AT combat-wise...but...move psynergy? Out of combat synergy used in combat?

----------------

Actually...why can't we use force psynergy in combat? Now I want to beat people up with giant magic fists now...

 

[Silo777]

I think the reason “everyone is here” happened now is because Sakurai sees it as probably the last chance he has to do it before the overall roster inevitably gets too large to do so.

On another note, if Isaac joins, he’s 100% safe from all cuts. Not only is he the first and most likely only rep from a new first party franchise to smash, but he’s also a fan favourite.

 

[StrawHatX]

Steps back into the thread to talk about Issac-

TOO BAD. WALUIGI TIME.

---------------

...Ahem. I had to, sorry.

But on the point of Sakurai's interests and biases, we all known that this shows up in characters already in the roster. Donkey Kong and Bowser keep making sounds they are not known to make in their games (of which I'm personally okay with for D.K. but annoyed with for Bowser) since that appears to be how Sakurai envisions them to be. I believe a few people made videos about Bowser's representation in Smash...and how it contrasts with his Son and the Koopalings. That's the big one that gets to me.

So maybe Sakurai just doesn't really know Waluigi, and, to be on topic: Issac, well enough. I mean- I like Issac's AT combat-wise...but...move psynergy? Out of combat synergy used in combat?

----------------

Actually...why can't we use force psynergy in combat? Now I want to beat people up with giant magic fists now...

Excuse me sir, but we talk about Isaac here and occasionally his Camelot Brother. I don’t know who this Issac is you speak of.

 

[Clumsyzephyr]

What's an Isaac?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Zelda

When people have been complaining that the only new rep it's gotten since Melee is another Link clone, you know a franchise isn't overrepresented.

 

[Ninjaed]

It's possible there will be cuts, but I think these cuts will be 3rd party and echo fighters who will get shafted as alternative costumes. For the 3rd party, they'd be released as DLC as that's how both sides will get the most out of the deal, and fan demand would compel people to buy them. As for echo fighters, that'd mean no more Lucina, no more Chrom, no more Dr Mario, no more Dark Pit... NO MORE HEROES!! *ahem*

 

[Guynamednelson]

If anything, considering what people complain about Dark Pit for being, the only reason to cut him is if Pit is gone.

 

[Silo777]

If anything, considering what people complain about Dark Pit for being, the only reason to cut him is if Pit is gone.

I think echos are easy enough to make that they’ll be able to stay. Most of them, at least. I think the first ones to go will be semi-clones.

 

[Bladebreaker]

I think echos are easy enough to make that they’ll be able to stay. Most of them, at least. I think the first ones to go will be semi-clones.

Depends on which semi-clones you're talking about. Falco isn't going anywhere, at least. Ones like Dr. Mario and Pichu, on the other hand, are uncertain.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Steps back into the thread to talk about Issac-

TOO BAD. WALUIGI TIME.

---------------

...Ahem. I had to, sorry.

But on the point of Sakurai's interests and biases, we all known that this shows up in characters already in the roster. Donkey Kong and Bowser keep making sounds they are not known to make in their games (of which I'm personally okay with for D.K. but annoyed with for Bowser) since that appears to be how Sakurai envisions them to be. I believe a few people made videos about Bowser's representation in Smash...and how it contrasts with his Son and the Koopalings. That's the big one that gets to me.

So maybe Sakurai just doesn't really know Waluigi, and, to be on topic: Issac, well enough. I mean- I like Issac's AT combat-wise...but...move psynergy? Out of combat synergy used in combat?

----------------

Actually...why can't we use force psynergy in combat? Now I want to beat people up with giant magic fists now...

You know, you may be on to something there. The extent of his knowledge of the character of Wario are "he farts, uses a bike and shoulder bashes things", so since he most likely has a big game collection, one wonders how much free time he actually has to play the games for Smash research.

But yeah, I think we should agree that Waluigi is the new Ridley and just focus on bringing back GS, right?

Depends on which semi-clones you're talking about. Falco isn't going anywhere, at least. Ones like Dr. Mario and Pichu, on the other hand, are uncertain.

Pichu would be the least missed among those, that much is certain. Although I wouldn't be surprised if he gets some decent buffs here.

Meanwhile, we have three Links, and one of those didn't get much differentiation. Which is a shame, he could have had some MM stuff.

 

[StrawHatX]

I just get the feeling that this really is Sakurai’s last Smash game. I know he says that all the time, but with him bringing back every single veteran and adding some long time wanted characters like Ridley and K. Rool I think he means it this time.

I think there’s a reason this game is “Ultimate”. He wanted to go out with a bang. I think they’re going to trim the roster down quite a bit whenever they do the next one. I hope you guys are right though.

 

[GoodGrief741]

When people have been complaining that the only new rep it's gotten since Melee is another Link clone, you know a franchise isn't overrepresented.

Overrepresented might not be the proper term. Zelda has a lot of characters, yet they’re mostly very, very poorly chosen. I think both Link boys and Sheik will go.

 

[Guynamednelson]

I think both Link boys and Sheik will go.

Young Link maybe, but Nintendo likes marketing Toon Link for younger audiences and Japan's preference for cuteness.