Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[SPEN18]

yeah it didn't stop billybo from putting up a banger of a GS let's play

 

[PolarPanda]

It's called "Nintendo being tone deaf and disconnected from their community", It's nothing new to be surprised about. It isn't something to make me skeptical because it's precedented and that's just how they are, it's just yet another dumb moment of theirs, when they only realize half way what fans want and still blue ball them. Also, if you talk about donig something and not just talking about it, you're already failing at it lol, so let's do something about it. I already am part of Operation Daybreak, a movement that is starting to be made to revive some franchises, mainly Golden Sun.

Oh hey, Dyguren! I'm sure you could vouche my source here, he's in our server after all. It's nice to see you here! (I'm Sabi, obviously).

 

[KoopaSaki]

I was directly told that Nintendo operators got hate calls over Isaac just the same as they did with Waluigi. If there is a wave 2 (since wave 1 WON'T) with AT promotions, Waluigi or Isaac would definitely be first. Then Skull Kid.

We need to keep pushing our support for golden sun to come back on the Nintendo switch guys. Wave 2 is our last hope for this game and I’m hoping to god that trademark renewal is hinting at a new game next year!

 

[Bladebreaker]

PolarPanda : Just curious, but you've apparently said that Mii costumes are a hard deconfirm?

 

[PolarPanda]

PolarPanda : Just curious, but you've apparently said that Mii costumes are a hard deconfirm?

ATs are hard deconfirmation for wave 1. I was just told mii costumes are "compensation", such as in Isaac's case currently. I can't really guarantee they deconfirm black knight, for instance, but that sounds like the case.

 

[cybersai]

ATs are hard deconfirmation for wave 1. I was just told mii costumes are "compensation", such as in Isaac's case currently. I can't really guarantee they deconfirm black knight, for instance, but that sounds like the case.

Black Knight has an Assist trophy too, in case you don't know. The only one who doesn't is Dixie Kong, who just has the mii hat but no assist.

 

[PolarPanda]

Black Knight has an Assist trophy too, in case you don't know. The only one who doesn't is Dixie Kong, who just has the mii hat but no assist.

Oh darn, I didn't know that about BK. Sucks Yeah, Dixie may be safe since it's just a hat. I could ask the next time that he's available about Dixie.

 

[cybersai]

Oh darn, I didn't know that about BK. Sucks Yeah, Dixie may be safe since it's just a hat. I could ask the next time that he's available about Dixie.

Thanks, be sure to post in the Dixie thread if you have info.

 

[Gioka]

Hey guys, tuning back in, sorry for the short absence. I have two questions.
1) Whatever happened to the website plan? I am still up for helping with design for that! I am sure we can do something cool, even if informative!

2) I am designing a GS ugly sweater, I wanted to ask if anyone here is interested? I am exploring options and it would probably be full printed, so if anyone would like one maybe I can make a small stock

 

[Undella2]

Oh, in other news, Nintendo's content creators program is dead by the end of the year (source). So that's neat.

Where does it say on the site that it's ending?

 

[*Verrix*]

We need to keep pushing our support for golden sun to come back on the Nintendo switch guys. Wave 2 is our last hope for this game and I’m hoping to god that trademark renewal is hinting at a new game next year!

I would love to get a new Golden Sun game especially on the Switch. I hope they wouldn't pull some lame crap and put it on the 3DS for some reason.

 

[Istry555]

I disagree on the "couldn't get past Isaac's dormant series" argument. I think it would've been fine if there was enough time, there just wasn't enough time for Isaac with everything else going on. That's why dormant franchises are less likely rather than never happening. Other things take priority.

I really don't think you can argue that this time, though, because of Piranha Plant. It's one thing to say he didn't have enough time to make characters, and Sakurai does like to throw the oddball character in, but in the interview discussing why he added Piranha Plant, Sakurai specifically said he thought the character was a better addition than the main character from lesser known series. What's keeping Isaac out is exactly that, his series isn't exactly relevant anymore and characters from those types of series don't fit Sakuria's vision for the roster.

 

[SPEN18]

I really don't think you can argue that this time, though, because of Piranha Plant. It's one thing to say he didn't have enough time to make characters, and Sakurai does like to throw the oddball character in, but in the interview discussing why he added Piranha Plant, Sakurai specifically said he thought the character was a better addition than the main character from lesser known series. What's keeping Isaac out is exactly that, his series isn't exactly relevant anymore and characters from those types of series don't fit Sakuria's vision for the roster.

I mean, "better addition" doesn't mean "only type of addition possible." Sure, Sakurai may have thought PP would be a better choice of a fighter than Isaac, but that doesn't mean he would never take a fighter like Isaac.

And yes, the Piranha Plant stung so bad for a lot of us because it epitomizes a lot of the issues we're fighting against: "relevancy," "recognizability," "recency," you know, all those bad R words that get bandied about.

It's completely fair to say that in a game with 12 uniques rather than 5 (plus a clone), it would've been much easier to fit in a character like Isaac. Doesn't mean it 100% definitely would've happened, but the chances would be much greater.

But even if it is true that Isaac had no chance this game, we're not gonna just bow out and be like "okay Sak, whatev u say."

 

[SonicLink125]

I mean, "better addition" doesn't mean "only type of addition possible." Sure, Sakurai may have thought PP would be a better choice of a fighter than Isaac, but that doesn't mean he would never take a fighter like Isaac.

And yes, the Piranha Plant stung so bad for a lot of us because it epitomizes a lot of the issues we're fighting against: "relevancy," "recognizability," "recency," you know, all those bad R words that get bandied about.

It's completely fair to say that in a game with 12 uniques rather than 5 (plus a clone), it would've been much easier to fit in a character like Isaac. Doesn't mean it 100% definitely would've happened, but the chances would be much greater.

But even if it is true that Isaac had no chance this game, we're not gonna just bow out and be like "okay Sak, whatev u say."

Kind of like the Ridley situation. Sakurai seemed like to be against the idea of making Ridley playable. Even going so far to say that he couldn’t make him work in a Smash 4 Interview. But that didn’t stop the Ridley fans from pushing for him and we shouldn’t stop pushing for our Golden Boy, regardless of his odds at this point.

I will say that PP was the better choice for the “Limited Time Offer” as the character is widely known, wacky, easy to make, and would get people to buy the game sooner so they wouldn’t have to bother buying PP later. It makes sense to me why they chose PP.

 

[StrawHatX]

I really don't think you can argue that this time, though, because of Piranha Plant. It's one thing to say he didn't have enough time to make characters, and Sakurai does like to throw the oddball character in, but in the interview discussing why he added Piranha Plant, Sakurai specifically said he thought the character was a better addition than the main character from lesser known series. What's keeping Isaac out is exactly that, his series isn't exactly relevant anymore and characters from those types of series don't fit Sakuria's vision for the roster.

The relevancy argument isn’t a good one to use. A character/series being irrelevant doesn’t prevent them from getting into Smash, it’s just if Sakurai/Nintendo has some plans for them.

Pit was completely irrelevant when Brawl came out. Uprising came out three years later.

 

[SPEN18]

Kind of like the Ridley situation. Sakurai seemed like to be against the idea of making Ridley playable. Even going so far to say that he couldn’t make him work in a Smash 4 Interview. But that didn’t stop the Ridley fans from pushing for him and we shouldn’t stop pushing for our Golden Boy, regardless of his odds at this point.

I will say that PP was the better choice for the “Limited Time Offer” as the character is widely known, wacky, easy to make, and would get people to buy the game sooner so they wouldn’t have to bother buying PP later. It makes sense to me why they chose PP.

Yeah I said in an earlier post that Ridley pretty much shows that no character can be permanently disconfirmed by anything Sakurai says.

And yeah, Isaac isn't highly requested based on his chances; he's requested based on the love for GS.

Finally, just cuz you understand someone's reasoning doesn't mean you agree with it. I'm still not convinced that Piranha Plant was a good idea, but that's just me.

 

[TappyBat]

The relevancy argument isn’t a good one to use. A character/series being irrelevant doesn’t prevent them from getting into Smash, it’s just if Sakurai/Nintendo has some plans for them.

Pit was completely irrelevant when Brawl came out. Uprising came out three years later.

so there's no plans for GS?

 

[StrawHatX]

so there's no plans for GS?

Not when they were planning the base roster at least. And I doubt for the first wave of DLC.

If there’s a second wave then maybe.

 

[JaidynReiman]

I really don't think you can argue that this time, though, because of Piranha Plant. It's one thing to say he didn't have enough time to make characters, and Sakurai does like to throw the oddball character in, but in the interview discussing why he added Piranha Plant, Sakurai specifically said he thought the character was a better addition than the main character from lesser known series. What's keeping Isaac out is exactly that, his series isn't exactly relevant anymore and characters from those types of series don't fit Sakuria's vision for the roster.

The problem people keep ignoring with the Plant is context. Sakurai is strictly talking in the context of the Plant being the last thing to try and hype up people to buy the game as early as possible. Its something recognizable that will attract more attention to people who wouldn't normally by Smash, and having a time limit says "Hey, get this extra thing you wouldn't get otherwise for free if you buy the game within the first two months!"


The rest of the DLC is a different story all-together, because that can only target people who already bought the game. You can't expect people who haven't bought a game yet to be attracted to it because of its DLC content. (I think that's partly why Torna was released as its own thing separate from Xenoblade Chronicles 2.)

 

[TheSpaceKing12]

Oh darn, I didn't know that about BK. Sucks Yeah, Dixie may be safe since it's just a hat. I could ask the next time that he's available about Dixie.

I want to believe all the stuff you're saying. But I can't in any good faith. To believe you would be to believe words without concrete weight. However, I want to believe it because I just want closure. I want something resembling an official yes or a no, and to be done with it. Alongside an accompanying detailed reason. No fan rules, no assumptions, just the cold hard truth. Truth which this community, and myself, have been denied...for years. Left only to fill in the blanks with our own horrifying assumptions.

I want to be able to have closure. I've already moved on from smash for the most part. I mourned a cause I had spent this whole year fighting. And while embers of hope are left. I know, and have known, from the stat that it's a uphill battle. So I let go of Smash. I figured, rather than brooding for months. My time was better spent making my fellows laugh in our rather depressing times, so I became GS_****posts. Just to make some folks laugh.

I grew to desire closure following that direct. But I can't accept it here and now.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I posted what my NoA connection said in the Geno thread, since that's where I'm at most of the time. Posted a screenshot of his message in particular, but I'll post it here for good measure. GS fans NEED to follow through with his advice if they want Isaac in the future:

View attachment 180464

Now, if your source is a brand ambassador at NoA, why would they have such in-depth knowledge of Sakurai’s thought process and criteria for decision making?

I hope you don’t take this the wrong way, and I mean no offense. I just take everything with a grain of salt nowadays, particularly such crushing news.

 

[Nazyrus]

Btw, I can vouche for PolarPanda and his ambassador source since I also talk with that person as well. Just gonna say that.

 

[LegendOfDragoon]

We need to keep pushing our support for golden sun to come back on the Nintendo switch guys. Wave 2 is our last hope for this game and I’m hoping to god that trademark renewal is hinting at a new game next year!

We also need to keep being respectful. We don't want to cross a line. Whining like the Ridley fans is fine, but death threats are not, and we should condemn them every step of the way.

 

[StrawHatX]

Btw, I can vouche for PolarPanda and his ambassador source since I also talk with that person as well. Just gonna say that.

No offense but he just gave us a bunch of words and you’re doing the same thing. Do you guys have some sort of history we can see that you have inside sources? Because some guy saying “I know stuff” and then someone else saying “Yeah, he does” isn’t a lot of evidence.

Not saying you guys are liars. Just don’t know you.

 

[Nazyrus]

No offense but he just gave us a bunch of words and you’re doing the same thing. Do you guys have some sort of history we can see that you have inside sources? Because some guy saying “I know stuff” and then someone else saying “Yeah, he does” isn’t a lot of evidence.

Not saying you guys are liars. Just don’t know you.

Sure let us give you proof that puts the person in trouble then (?) no thanks… Polar has verified his source and if a mod wants to confirm this via DMs, fine by me, but we are not gonna be spreading delicate info of this person to the regular public cause that's just dumb and could endanger this person's job. Please use common sense when asking for "proof", people. Feel free to doubt, but neither Polar nor I have reason to lie about this, unlike some "insiders" out there who pretend to be real and then backpedal over and over again.

 

[StrawHatX]

Sure let us give you proof that puts the person in trouble then (?) no thanks… Polar has verified his source and if a mod wants to confirm this via DMs, fine by me, but we are not gonna be spreading delicate info of this person to the regular public cause that's just dumb and could endanger this person's job. Please use common sense when asking for "proof", people. Feel free to doubt, but neither Polar nor I have reason to lie about this, unlike some "insiders" out there who pretend to be real and then backpedal over and over again.

Lol calm down guy. Usually when people “leak” stuff they have a history of doing it so you know they actually have inside sources. I don’t know who the hell you or this Polar guy is so I don’t trust you or him.

Use common sense when you post things telling people to just believe you because you know “ambassadors” or whatever it is. I haven’t seen any DM’s and I don’t feel like searching around to validate if what you’re saying is true. If you guys want people to believe you when you just post around have something to back it up.

 

[GoodGrief741]

No offense but he just gave us a bunch of words and you’re doing the same thing. Do you guys have some sort of history we can see that you have inside sources? Because some guy saying “I know stuff” and then someone else saying “Yeah, he does” isn’t a lot of evidence.

Not saying you guys are liars. Just don’t know you.

I understand and share your skepticism, but I figured I should point out that we do know Nazyrus, they’ve been around here for a while. You might remember her (I think Nazyrus was a she) Isaac render that ended up being better than the one we got.

PolarPanda is also a regular at the Geno thread.

 

[StrawHatX]

I understand and share your skepticism, but I figured I should point out that we do know Nazyrus, they’ve been around here for a while. You might remember her (I think Nazyrus was a she) Isaac render that ended up being better than the one we got.

PolarPanda is also a regular at the Geno thread.

Well, I’ve only been on these forums for a month or so. I’m not familiar with everyone here or how long they’ve been here. I’m not trying to call anyone out and I understand that if somebody actually has someone on the inside they have to be careful about what they show off or say.

All I’m saying is it’s hard to believe anybody in the “leaking” department when they say “I know a guy and he says...”. I said I don’t know either of these people, and also stated I’m not calling them liars I just asked if they could share any credibility they might have and she got defensive about it.

I don’t just believe people because they say “believe me” and then some other person shows up I don’t know and says “believe him”.

Like I said, if you’re going around to different threads trying to convince people to believe you then you might want something to bring to back up what you’re saying.

 

[Pinguino21v]

1) Whatever happened to the website plan? I am still up for helping with design for that! I am sure we can do something cool, even if informative!

It's still in ideation status. I made the mock up but I still don't know if we should use a CMS (like WordPress) or make it from scratch.
The CMS seems easier, but I don't have the knowledge to do that. I should try to reach the person who said to me he know WP.
If it's from scratch, I can work on it, but it's way longer.
I'll try to remember you can help for that!

2) I am designing a GS ugly sweater, I wanted to ask if anyone here is interested? I am exploring options and it would probably be full printed, so if anyone would like one maybe I can make a small stock

I probably won't buy one sadly, I won't wear it honestly. I'm still backing for pins and magnets!

 

[JaidynReiman]

It's still in ideation status. I made the mock up but I still don't know if we should use a CMS (like WordPress) or make it from scratch.
The CMS seems easier, but I don't have the knowledge to do that. I should try to reach the person who said to me he know WP.
If it's from scratch, I can work on it, but it's way longer.
I'll try to remember you can help for that!

Yeah that's me. I was just talking about it a bit on the Discord as well. I can't work on it right now, but maybe this weekend. I mean, I could throw together a quick subdomain and WP installation (no domain yet, we still need to finalize a name and domain to go with anyway).

The theme isn't that bad, but I still don't have that much free time right now. And typically I spend that time playing games instead. I don't know if I'd be able to finish putting together a theme before the weekend of the 15th (because the prior weekend I will be playing Smash all weekend). I really only have one day this weekend to potentially work on it, but its possible I could do it all in one day.


Arguably, there should be two main parts: the main page and the blog. We probably don't need anymore than that. We could always expand beyond that as well.

 

[Pinguino21v]

I was just talking about it a bit on the Discord as well.

I didn't go on Discord for a while, I should come back in the following days.

And typically I spend that time playing games instead.

Yeah, that's me too. ^^

Arguably, there should be two main parts: the main page and the blog. We could always expand beyond that as well.

A blog would be insanely useful, yes. In my opinion, the website should have two goals, no more, no less:

1. Public advertisement. Have a gateway to the operation, to make it more official. It's meant to be a showcase to redirect people on it and spread the word, to have every argument in one place. It must also have the means to reach and join the community (links to reddit, Discord, etc.).
2. Keeping the community informed. Have a mean to share information to the community, be it Golden Sun information in general or more specific to the operation (Golden Sunday dates...).

The second point would be nice, but is optional for now, for the time the main people behind the operation are mostly already active users of either Smashboards, either Discord, either Twitter, and thus well informed. When we will have a more spread fanbase, some will not be as active and will like to have a blog, keeping them informed.

 

[N3ON]

I posted what my NoA connection said in the Geno thread, since that's where I'm at most of the time. Posted a screenshot of his message in particular, but I'll post it here for good measure. GS fans NEED to follow through with his advice if they want Isaac in the future:

View attachment 180464

I feel comfortable corroborating this, I believe the source trustworthy.

And frankly, at this point in time, future GS games seem the only way Isaac would get in, regardless of this info.

 

[ZelDan]

While it's unfortunate to see Isaac wasn't even considered, I don't think this development really changes our situation much. Ever since Isaac got hit with the double whammy (AT and mii costume), I figured Isaac's only hope for getting into Ultimate was if there was DLC past the first fighter pass. This...doesn;t really change that. PolarPanda's post DOES show that Nintendo doesn;t really think that much of Golden Sun, but, I mean, that should have been pretty obvious after all the nothing the series got ever since Dark Dawn.

If there's any silver lining or positive spin to the post, it's that evidently we DID get Nintendo's attention and are aware of the demand. And hey, this isn't the first time Nintendo was surprised to see there was alot of demand for a character, and last time this happened that character DID get some love.

 

[hustler713]

The relevancy argument isn’t a good one to use. A character/series being irrelevant doesn’t prevent them from getting into Smash, it’s just if Sakurai/Nintendo has some plans for them.

Pit was completely irrelevant when Brawl came out. Uprising came out three years later.

Gs sold more than pre awakening FE during Brawl development. If it was about relevancy alone Isaac would have been in Brawl over Ike.

 

[jweb23]

Sucks to hear that Isaac was never considered but I always feared that was the case. However it is infuriating to hear that after literally asking the fans what they wanted and then having a literal list of our requests...they somehow interpreted Isaac’s demand as wanting the assist trophy back. But hey, this is the same company that though Metroid Prime: Federation Force was a good idea so it doesn’t shock me. Smh

Anyways we need to push hard for a new game in order to get into Smash! Right now Isaac and Dixie Kong have become the new Ridley and K Rool! However Dixie has the luxury of being a Donkey Kong character so we need to make our voices heard in a respectful way to revive Golden Sun!

As I already assumed, Wave 1 is out of the question but let’s not forgot the dataminers found 30 unused character slots so the possibility for more is likely! Now I’m not saying to mindlessly buy a future DLC character you don’t like however if you have any interest in a Wave 1 dlc character then please support it because the success of Wave 1 will obviously determine if they even consider a Wave 2 and the second wave is the only way I see us getting Isaac! His popularity and demand is unquestionable now and we know Nintendo was shocked by the backlash too so he’s on their radar!

Stay diligent everyone! We have to continue this same energy and commitment all the way up to both the potential reveal of a new game or remake as well as playable status in Smash! We can no longer be silent like our Golden Boy, we must be like Kraden

Also, I saw someone mention Operation Daybreak... I’m not up here as frequently as I used to be so I would appreciate some more info on this operation or possibly a link to wherever its members are gathering so I can help out!

 

[Tōji]

I understand and share your skepticism, but I figured I should point out that we do know Nazyrus, they’ve been around here for a while.

I don't like bringing up old drama, but I remember Nazyrus not being truthful about a user actually being loz18 on Discord. I question their credibility.

I feel comfortable corroborating this, I believe the source trustworthy.

Based on what?

 

[jweb23]

I don't like bringing up old drama, but I remember Nazyrus not being truthful about a user actually being loz18 on Discord. I question their credibility.

Based on what?

Honestly let’s not waste time on things that don’t matter!

Whether credible or not, the reality of the situation is that our Golden Boy is an assist trophy and there is absolutely nothing concrete to assume he will be part of Wave 1!

Right now we should all be focusing on what we should be doing to hopefully change Isaac’s fate in the future. Not focusing on if someone’s source is correct about info that doesn’t even change what our true focus and goals should be! This is NOT the time to be divided on a silly matter!

 

[Tetiro]

Right, I've caught up on everything and it changes nothing.

Guys let's be frank. Golden Sun is a forgotten franchise. Regardless of this new information being true or not. Golden Sun has had massive gaps in its release history. And I don't put the blame to "lack of sales".

Camelot has been stuck doing those Mario Sports games for so long that honestly at times I forget they make Golden Sun. Nintendo is no doubt forcing them to make them and only them. As such, GS was always going to be an uphill battle. We are essentially reviving a series through Super Smash Bros. It is always going to be hard. Go and ask some King K Rool fans and I'm sure they'd agree.

This isn't uncommon with Nintendo. They are suck with forgotten franchises or ones that don't sell. Chibi-Robo, F-Zero, Golden Sun etc etc. Even Advance Wars has been forgotten.

But look where we have gotten to so far. The next step is full inclusion. We can't give it up now. And nor that we should. On top of that, a new Golden Sun game IS WHAT WE WANT. Isaac's inclusion in Smash is not the priority anymore. It's a full revival of the series. And that's something we need to focus on. And that just so happen includes him being playable in Smash.

If you ask me, this new information is too easily gained. A Brand Ambassador would not have this information. I have had ties (via friends) to Nintendo in the past. And let me tell you it requires much more to get THAT sort of information. It's one thing to grab unannounced titles. Or secret events. It's another thing to grab information behind the scenes on the Design floor. And I do software design and let me tell you this. That sort of information RARELY leaves the business or shared to anyone who doesn't need to know it. PERIOD.

Sorry but I put this in Team Fake as a legit claim. However while fake, the logic is true. We must band our forces and make our support known.



I'm planning to play Golden Sun throughout the Christmas period and talk about it. Get more awareness!

 

[Bladebreaker]

Where does it say on the site that it's ending?

You can see where it's canceled here. What I posted was their new guidelines.

 

[SirCamp]

All this talk of forgotten franchise and irrelevancy just makes no sense to me. It's possible that that is indeed what is holding Isaac back, but I can't help but get stuck on the fact that that reasoning is entirely inconsistent with the rosters that we've already gotten in the past. We've seen time and time again that Sakurai is willing to add relatively unknown and/or currently irrelevant franchises to the roster. So I'm not sure I understand why that would suddenly change with the prospect of GS representation.

Also, I can't say Im really willing to believe any leaker that is going to weave a story abuot why decisions were made. Almost no leaker is going to be privy to that kind of infrmation. Most employees are simply going to have their task at hand and will work on whatever assets they're assigned to. An employee knowing about a character being included because they worked on a trailer, on the character model, animations, or whatever else isn't likly to know why that character made the cut so to speak. And certainly I wouldn't think those employees would know why a character didn't make the cut. They wouldn't even be working on that character then and thus it wouldn't be relevant to their job. The only people I could seeing knowing that information are likely the people actually making those decisions and I highly, highly doubt any of those people are leaking anything.