Sunrise Up Again! Isaac for Smash Ultimate DLC

Gioka

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I think the the black detail for the sun looks nice, It kinda makes it stand out more. I don't know if this was intentional or not, but it looks kinda
like a Golden Sun dream-catcher; which is awesome. Although I do think that the elements on the bottom looks a bit pixely. You could give each
element one specific color (Example: Growth = Green), but that's only a suggestion. Otherwise, it looks great! I would love one in gray if there is one.
I also think black stands out better, and a dream catcher look is deliberate too I am glad you noticed! The pixely look for the psynergy was for them to look like they do in game but if it looks weird I can always sifted the look with rounder ends!

Quick question, I don't suppose one could be done for in 2 weeks (and then be sent), could it? If so, black design for me! If not, I'll look somewhere else for some Golden Sun stuff to bring.
Hmm I don't know how long they take to be made, let me talk to the supplier and I will come back to you, what did you have planned?
 
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Heh! These phrases like, "This decreases his chances for DLC.", "There is a hint that he's in", "No way it will happen", "Leaker confirmed he's in"

Who cares what Isaac's chances are? As long as we push hard for Isaac to get in via DLC, and for a new GS game too, we WILL get something in the end. If he still doesn't get in, then our support will carry over for the roster decision for Smash 6 and Isaac WILL be on their minds. Doing nothing gets us nowhere which has been our downfall time and time again. No more! So stop getting your hopes down from a guy who changes his mind constantly. Anything is possible!
 
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Also Golden Sun is widely known, Golden Sunday wouldn't have been as big of a success otherwise if no one knew about said franchise to care enough to bring it back in the first place.
It's known among Smash fans and good bit of Nintendo fans but Sakurai seems to look past those groups and includes more casual demographics when talking about "everyone" and in that regard Isaac isn't widely known.
 

KoopaSaki

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It's known among Smash fans and good bit of Nintendo fans but Sakurai seems to look past those groups and includes more casual demographics when talking about "everyone" and in that regard Isaac isn't widely known.
That’s why we need to get nintendo to release a new golden sun game somehow so Isaac can be known again. Hopefully we got their attention with golden Sunday and the rathalos tweet getting a lot of attention. the Isaac at returning is good for giving him more exposure after getting nothing in smash 4. We need to keep pushing and let nintendo know about our demand. I just hope we have enough men.
 

Ninjaed

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I also think black stands out better, and a dream catcher look is deliberate too I am glad you noticed! The pixely look for the psynergy was for them to look like they do in game but if it looks weird I can always sifted the look with rounder ends!


Hmm I don't know how long they take to be made, let me talk to the supplier and I will come back to you, what did you have planned?
Going to a tournament on the 14th next month. Wanted to have something Golden Sun-related to keep the Golden Sun hype train running.

Speaking of which, despite the theories, it's unfortuantely unlikely that Isaac makes the cut this DLC... BUT! Like SonicLink said, who cares if Isaac doesn't get in in Smash Ultimate's 1st DLC wave? We love the series, therefore we'll keep supporting it even after we managed to get its revival!
 

SPEN18

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Okay, so I feel compelled to comment on the bit about Piranha Plant in this article which was posted here earlier:
https://www.gameinformer.com/interv...lant-spirits-and-20-years-of-super-smash-bros

-------

"I’m actually not paying too much focus on the surprise element when we introduce a new fighter. The surprise element quickly fades once the announcement has been made.

Rather, I believe it’s important to have a good balance as a game. In the past titles in the series, Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B. and Duck Hunt Dog were some of the examples we offered outside of people’s typical expectations. However, if we don’t have these types of fighters, and we only had typical “hero/heroine” type fighters in the lineup, there’s not much difference. It’s probably not very interesting. Correct?

Also, unlike some main characters from some (not widely known) franchises, Piranha Plant is a character everyone knows well. And, I want to make sure to remind everyone that it is a limited-time offer fighter everyone can get for free as an early-purchase bonus." - Sakurai, in translation of course

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In the first paragraph, Sakurai's kidding himself. In the project plan for Smash 4 he explicitly labeled Duck Hunt as "this game's surprise character," suggesting that some characters are picked at least in part because they are surprising (https://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/07/04/english-smash4-project-proposal-slides/). There's enough evidence to suggest that a "character frame" is left open for a surprise just like one was left open for Pokémon, but we can't know for sure so I won't argue based on that. There are, of course, other reasons for Duck Hunt being included, which is why I don't have a problem with them being picked; same with R.O.B., G&W, and Wii Fit Trianer (who was not mentioned by Sakurai here). I do agree that surprises quickly fade and thus should not be a reason to include a character, but Sakurai's clearly not following this logic even if he says that he is.

Now, in the second paragraph Sakurai tries to argue that these "surprise" characters are picked because they are unique and different from the rest of the cast, not being your typical "hero/heroine" fighters. I actually agree with this to some extent, as there is something to be said for respresenting all the wacky and weird things Nintendo has done through the years. But it's not enough on its own for a character to make it into Smash. This should be clear from the types of "surprise" characters we've gotten, which all represent games that had some impact on Nintendo's history and introduced the Smash audience to something they may never have seen before. For example, if Wii Fit had not sold well at all, was bombed by critics, and didn't represent all the interesting things Nintendo did to appeal to casuals during the Wii era, I doubt Wii Fit Trainer would've made it into Smash 4. If they were going for a surprise they would've chosen something else. Similarly, R.O.B. has a great history with Nintendo's ability to survive in the Western gaming market. R.O.B. is a bit harder to justify than Wii Fit because his games didn't achieve the same notoriety or critical success, but without these little historical bits R.O.B.'s inclusion would've been even harder to justify for fans in the Brawl era and would've made it confusing to bring him back in Smash 4, as he's not a "surprise" anymore. The point is that after the surprise wears off, there has to be something else there that makes fans say "oh, in retrospect that makes sense." But the logic of Wii Fit and R.O.B. breaks down when you try to apply it to Piranha Plant. You can't really argue that the Piranha Plant itself had any major impact on gaming or Nintendo's history. Maybe you can say that the Mario franchise did, but the Piranha Plant itself was little more than an insignificant enemy; the Mario franchise would barely be any different without the Piranha Plant in it. So you can't really use relative importance as a reason to justify the "surprise." There has to be some other reason to justify Piranha Plant's inclusion once its hype wears down and people begin to question why it's there.

But how does Sakurai try to justify the surprise? In the third paragraph of the quote above, with the same argument we've been fighting for almost 20 years now. That he's "recognizable," more so than "main characters from some franchises." But is this really why Piranha Plant is in? Just because he's recognizable and surprising? Fittingly, Sakurai gives us the answer in the next sentence: "I want to make sure to remind everyone that it is a limited-time offer fighter everyone can get for free as an early-purchase bonus." Here, we are reminded that this is all a marketing ploy, that Piranha Plant is in because they believe that he will sell. That instead of making someone who fans love but the general public doesn't know they're missing, instead of introducing something that actually represents a piece of history that's been waiting its turn for a while, we get whatever is most "recognizable" because it sells the best. And this is what's gone wrong with Smash roster selection these past few games.
 

FlintIke

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Ok normally I wouldn't say anything against Sakurai's arguments for certain characters, but that one part bothers me a lot:

'Rather, I believe it’s important to have a good balance as a game. In the past titles in the series, Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B. and Duck Hunt Dog were some of the examples we offered outside of people’s typical expectations. However, if we don’t have these types of fighters, and we only had typical “hero/heroine” type fighters in the lineup, there’s not much difference. It’s probably not very interesting. Correct?

Also, unlike some main characters from some (not widely known) franchises, Piranha Plant is a character everyone knows well. And, I want to make sure to remind everyone that it is a limited-time offer fighter everyone can get for free as an early-purchase bonus.

Sry Mr.Sakurai but you LITERALLY SAID IN THE SIMON&RICHTER INTERVIEW, THAT MANY PEOPLE MIGHT NOT KNOW SIMON/RICHTER AND SHALL BE INTRODUCED TO THEM THROUGH SMASH.

Why on earth is that argument now, that Piranha Plant is well known? If you ask me that sounds like a load of BS to me. There is just something behind the devs that forced him to put that character in but he of course can't admit it and always tries to find a reason behind it.

But this time that argument is invalid since he literally said the opposite when Simon and Richter were revealed. Just stay with the retro argument I wouldn't care that much about it.
 
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A lot of the stuff that's happened lately feels contradictory. All I think this article confirms is that all currently unrepresented Nintendo series probably have a chance of getting a character that's roughly around... 0.0000000000001%? Yeah I've given up hope on Smash helping us get back Golden Sun, Advance Wars, etc. Nothing makes sense anymore
 
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Not trolling at all. Isaac will never be a playable character in smash. The sooner you all stop your delusions the better.
Um, excuse me, but would you have told the Ridley and K Rool fanbase to give up?

We’re a fanbase for a reason and a fanbase doesn’t just give up. No matter the odds.

If you don’t agree with us, that’s fine, but I’d suggest not coming here and telling us what we should and shouldn’t do when you’re not one of us.

Thank you for your time.
 
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A lot of the stuff that's happened lately feels contradictory. All I think this article confirms is that all currently unrepresented Nintendo series probably have a chance of getting a character that's roughly around... 0.0000000000001%? Yeah I've given up hope on Smash helping us get back Golden Sun, Advance Wars, etc. Nothing makes sense anymore
That's what our main problem has been from the beginning. We were too determined to get Isaac in Smash as our 1st priority that we forgot our true goal was; getting Golden Sun back. Isaac in Smash should have been the end game, not the other way around.

What we should have done in the last 7+ years was keep Golden Sun relevant. So much so that Sakurai/Nintendo could not deny the demand for Isaac's inclusion. By then, we would have had him in by now. But we all pushed for the idea that Isaac in Smash was the answer to get a new Golden Sun game. But unfortunately, look where that got us. Well, what we can do is use Isaac's AT to our advantage to introduce people to Golden Sun and get more demand for a new game and then as long as we keep it up, Isaac will get into the Smash roster sooner or later.
 
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It's known among Smash fans and good bit of Nintendo fans but Sakurai seems to look past those groups and includes more casual demographics when talking about "everyone" and in that regard Isaac isn't widely known.
All three Golden Sun games have released consistently in east and west regions and can even boost sales in the millions for the first two installments. The original Golden Sun was even rereleased for the Wii U's virtual console in 2014. Isaac is recognizable and Sakurai has come straight out and named characters he considered but stated they wouldn't be known by some people. Either way that quote is to justify Pirahna Plant's inclusion.

And Sakurai seems to say varying things all the time. Like how he specifically states that Roy's redesign in particular is straight up for Smash fans who remembered him from Melee, and he's nothing like his incarnation of his original game, which is still Japan only. So most fans only know him from Smash.

The only thing holding Isaac back is that his series hasn't had a game since the DS days. There's nothing relevant to talk about regarding Golden Sun now that hasn't been discussed hundred times this these past eight years since Dark Dawn's release. If there was a Golden Sun game in development, that's enough to get fans talking and speculating about new lore, characters, Isaac's fate. If Golden Sun had consistent releases you'd see him talked about more outside of a Smash context, but since no Golden Sun game has been announced, of course Smash will continue to be the consistent thing that brings Golden Sun fans out of the woodwork.

I rather not get too caught up thinking everything Sakurai says deconfirms Isaac even when he's probably not even thinking about him, he's also said things that make Isaac a perfect candidate for Smash. Sakurai's all over the place.

Also come on guys, we're never going to catch Sakurai in a 'Aha!' moment. He'll never come out and say, 'Wow, I have no idea why I added this character!' He'll always have a reason, always an explanation, he'll always know what to say to justify his character inclusions lol.
 
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FlawedAI

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Silo777

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This is the trademark that had us up in a row back in August. It's the one we discussed a bit ago, and doesn't seem to mean anything, since it's just an "extension" of the trademark: in Japan, they apply for a new trademark before one expires, rather than simply renewing it, for whatever reason.
Yeah I thought so, just wanted to make sure.
 
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Okay, so I feel compelled to comment on the bit about Piranha Plant in this article which was posted here earlier:
https://www.gameinformer.com/interv...lant-spirits-and-20-years-of-super-smash-bros

-------

"I’m actually not paying too much focus on the surprise element when we introduce a new fighter. The surprise element quickly fades once the announcement has been made.

Rather, I believe it’s important to have a good balance as a game. In the past titles in the series, Mr. Game & Watch, R.O.B. and Duck Hunt Dog were some of the examples we offered outside of people’s typical expectations. However, if we don’t have these types of fighters, and we only had typical “hero/heroine” type fighters in the lineup, there’s not much difference. It’s probably not very interesting. Correct?

Also, unlike some main characters from some (not widely known) franchises, Piranha Plant is a character everyone knows well. And, I want to make sure to remind everyone that it is a limited-time offer fighter everyone can get for free as an early-purchase bonus." - Sakurai, in translation of course

-------

In the first paragraph, Sakurai's kidding himself. In the project plan for Smash 4 he explicitly labeled Duck Hunt as "this game's surprise character," suggesting that some characters are picked at least in part because they are surprising (https://www.sourcegaming.info/2015/07/04/english-smash4-project-proposal-slides/). There's enough evidence to suggest that a "character frame" is left open for a surprise just like one was left open for Pokémon, but we can't know for sure so I won't argue based on that. There are, of course, other reasons for Duck Hunt being included, which is why I don't have a problem with them being picked; same with R.O.B., G&W, and Wii Fit Trianer (who was not mentioned by Sakurai here). I do agree that surprises quickly fade and thus should not be a reason to include a character, but Sakurai's clearly not following this logic even if he says that he is.

Now, in the second paragraph Sakurai tries to argue that these "surprise" characters are picked because they are unique and different from the rest of the cast, not being your typical "hero/heroine" fighters. I actually agree with this to some extent, as there is something to be said for respresenting all the wacky and weird things Nintendo has done through the years. But it's not enough on its own for a character to make it into Smash. This should be clear from the types of "surprise" characters we've gotten, which all represent games that had some impact on Nintendo's history and introduced the Smash audience to something they may never have seen before. For example, if Wii Fit had not sold well at all, was bombed by critics, and didn't represent all the interesting things Nintendo did to appeal to casuals during the Wii era, I doubt Wii Fit Trainer would've made it into Smash 4. If they were going for a surprise they would've chosen something else. Similarly, R.O.B. has a great history with Nintendo's ability to survive in the Western gaming market. R.O.B. is a bit harder to justify than Wii Fit because his games didn't achieve the same notoriety or critical success, but without these little historical bits R.O.B.'s inclusion would've been even harder to justify for fans in the Brawl era and would've made it confusing to bring him back in Smash 4, as he's not a "surprise" anymore. The point is that after the surprise wears off, there has to be something else there that makes fans say "oh, in retrospect that makes sense." But the logic of Wii Fit and R.O.B. breaks down when you try to apply it to Piranha Plant. You can't really argue that the Piranha Plant itself had any major impact on gaming or Nintendo's history. Maybe you can say that the Mario franchise did, but the Piranha Plant itself was little more than an insignificant enemy; the Mario franchise would barely be any different without the Piranha Plant in it. So you can't really use relative importance as a reason to justify the "surprise." There has to be some other reason to justify Piranha Plant's inclusion once its hype wears down and people begin to question why it's there.

But how does Sakurai try to justify the surprise? In the third paragraph of the quote above, with the same argument we've been fighting for almost 20 years now. That he's "recognizable," more so than "main characters from some franchises." But is this really why Piranha Plant is in? Just because he's recognizable and surprising? Fittingly, Sakurai gives us the answer in the next sentence: "I want to make sure to remind everyone that it is a limited-time offer fighter everyone can get for free as an early-purchase bonus." Here, we are reminded that this is all a marketing ploy, that Piranha Plant is in because they believe that he will sell. That instead of making someone who fans love but the general public doesn't know they're missing, instead of introducing something that actually represents a piece of history that's been waiting its turn for a while, we get whatever is most "recognizable" because it sells the best. And this is what's gone wrong with Smash roster selection these past few games.
Basically, Sakurai wanted to have his surprise character, but it also had to be able to sell as it’s DLC.

Not sure how he felt that was an appropriate compromise though.
 

Ahm Skittish!

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Please remember to not respond to people who you think are trolling. Unfortunately, by doing so, you're making more work for us to clean up. If the intention is to ignore a troll, replying only feeds them. More importantly, it continues a fruitless debate and effectively becomes spam. I will note that the two replies do have legitimate points, which is why they are left alone. But in general, please avoid doing so.

And for those who aren't sure of this, forcing opinions onto others while disguising them as facts is definitely trolling. There is no intention to actually make a legitimate point. Of course, if somebody feels a character has no chance, they are free to express the opinion respectively even in a support thread. Just remember that a negative opinion is not a bad thing either. It's a matter of respect, not so much positive or negative. Of course, if you are unsure, please still report. Sometimes reports get rejected because they don't break any rules that we can find. And that's okay. The reality is, nobody's perfect. Mods aren't perfect too. We all make mistakes. Nobody's judgment will ever be the greatest ever.

Thank you for your time. :)
 

FlawedAI

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Basically, Sakurai wanted to have his surprise character, but it also had to be able to sell as it’s DLC.

Not sure how he felt that was an appropriate compromise though.
Yeah it seems Sakurai's trying to eat his cake and have it too*, which isn't gonna fly for me. It's very unfortunate, but the last month has really lowered my opinion of Sakurai, because it's starting to seem like he's just kinda doing what he wants, the fans be ****ed, and has completely fallen out of touch. Nobody gives a **** about brightness features enough to feature it in a Direct over Squad Strike or All-Star. I get he can't just say "I ran out of time and Piranha Plant was simple and a neat bonus, buy DLC!" but I'd like a real answer to why Pokemon was reserved a slot when this game was influenced by fans. He got lucky with Greninja, but Incineroar is a big swing and miss. That time could've gone to another fan favorite, but a character that didn't even exist was given priority over characters like Isaac, Banjo, and Geno. I know Pokemon is literally the biggest thing on the planet, but it's still upsetting that the rich are getting richer, as they say, while we're sitting here with literally worse than nothing.

* (Yes, this is the expression. It's been mixed up through English-speaking shenanigans.)
 

SPEN18

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but it's still upsetting that the rich are getting richer, as they say, while we're sitting here with literally worse than nothing.
Yeah it's like if you have two people in a hospital: one is a celebrity with a mild cold, and the other is a guy you don't know who just got into a car accident and is in critical condition. Which one do you give priority to?
 
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Because if you only make the game for long time fans, you alienate the casual audience.

Pokémon is also the biggest media franchise in the world.
Do you though? They still get Inkling and Isabelle and Daisy, and let’s not pretend that casual audiences will be turned off when they still have a ton of veterans they know. It’s the hardcore guys who care about the newcomers.

Plus, I’d argue that when you call a game Ultimate and go out in interviews saying how the roster was influenced by the ballot, you should actually deliver. They can make at least one game for the fans.
 

SPEN18

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Do you though? They still get Inkling and Isabelle and Daisy, and let’s not pretend that casual audiences will be turned off when they still have a ton of veterans they know. It’s the hardcore guys who care about the newcomers.

Plus, I’d argue that when you call a game Ultimate and go out in interviews saying how the roster was influenced by the ballot, you should actually deliver. They can make at least one game for the fans.
Pretty much this. This game has plenty of stuff for casuals even without a single newcomer. While I'm not opposed to characters that appealed to casuals, they did get their fair share of newcomers this game. Also, it's not like Simon, Ridley, and K. Rool don't appeal to any casuals at all; plenty of casual gamers loved playing Donkey Kong and Metroid as kids. Plus they're all cool characters added to a game that already has Mario, Link, 10 Pocket Monsters, etc. And you even have characters like Bowser where there aren't many other games where you can actually play as them (and playing as Bowser in Mario Kart only gets you so far).
 

NessAtc.

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What if Nintendo accelerated the registration because other company registered GOLDEN SUN as their trademark.
Definitely not. Nissan trademarked F-ZERO for some of their car manufacturing stuff in 2014, and Nintendo registered F-ZERO just this year. As long as the classes don't intrude, there's no issue.
 
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Silo777

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Plus, I’d argue that when you call a game Ultimate and go out in interviews saying how the roster was influenced by the ballot, you should actually deliver. They can make at least one game for the fans.
I do think it was a major misplay by Sakurai to mention this roster was influenced by the ballot only after all the ballot characters have been revealed. Seems misleading.

I feel like there’s a chance though that this DLC will be essentially what Smash 4’s DLC had us thought it was going to be. Maybe that’s what Sakurai meant? Perhaps this DLC will be mostly ballot characters, as that was what the whole poll was for in the first place. K Rool might’ve just been in base as a “prize” for winning the whole thing.
 
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Pretty much this. This game has plenty of stuff for casuals even without a single newcomer. While I'm not opposed to characters that appealed to casuals, they did get their fair share of newcomers this game. Also, it's not like Simon, Ridley, and K. Rool don't appeal to any casuals at all; plenty of casual gamers loved playing Donkey Kong and Metroid as kids. Plus they're all cool characters added to a game that already has Mario, Link, 10 Pocket Monsters, etc. And you even have characters like Bowser where there aren't many other games where you can actually play as them (and playing as Bowser in Mario Kart only gets you so far).
Plus, a reminder that even without Inkling or Isabelle or Daisy (who for some reason get labeled the casual characters), the Metroid series sold around 17 million copies (with the Prime games selling around 4 million), Castlevania sold around 20 million, Fire Emblem Awakening alone sold around 2 million, the original DKC trilogy sold 17 million, and Street Fighter has sold over 42 million copies and made more than $1 billion in arcade sales. What I’m saying is, if casual audiences don’t recognize any of these characters, I think Smash is just not the game for them.

I do think it was a major misplay by Sakurai to mention this roster was influenced by the ballot only after all the ballot characters have been revealed. Seems misleading.

I feel like there’s a chance though that this DLC will be essentially what Smash 4’s DLC had us thought it was going to be. Maybe that’s what Sakurai meant? Perhaps this DLC will be mostly ballot characters, as that was what the whole poll was for in the first place. K Rool might’ve just been in base as a “prize” for winning the whole thing.
I thought Smash 4’s DLC was going to be the Ballot. It was not. Then I thought Ultimate was going to be the Ballot, it wasn’t either. I don’t really have the strength to expect Ultimate’s DLC to be Ballot based, especially when their calling card was Piranha Plant.
 
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With all this DLC talk, I would like to put in my predictions of the 5 characters that's been looming over my head for awhile. The reason I'm doing it here is because I'm including Isaac here. I'm mostly basing each one as how much promotional material they can be or by other means and I'll be keeping it simple and short as much as I can.

1) Banjo or Steve (Microsoft Rep)
-Microsoft and Nintendo have been pretty good working together. Having a rep from them would help solidify that partnership. Steve would be in because Minecraft is their first crossplay major game with them. Banjo would be great for the N64 Classic promotion and technically Banjo was on Nintendo first via RARE.

2) Geno or Sora (Square Enix Rep)
-There's still word that there is indeed another Square rep in the works. Geno has been wanted for around 20 years now and was part of Nintendo as well. It would make a lot of fans happy. Sora has Kingdom Hearts 3 coming soon and it's possible that a KH collection might come to the Switch. Sora would work for promoting it.

3) Lloyd or Tekken Rep (Bamco Rep)
-I'm surprised that Bamco hasn't gotten a second character in yet and since they've been helping with Smash, it seems fair that they would get another. Lloyd or a Tekken rep make sense to have in (though I hope it's Lloyd).

4) Any big Nintendo character like Bandana Dee, 8th Gen Pokemon, Fire Emblem Three Houses, etc. Any of them can promote a new game on the horizon next year.

5) Isaac or a new GS Rep
-This slot can be the same as #4 too, but I'm going to entertain the idea for a bit that Isaac is in. A new Golden Sun game could be on the horizon and having Isaac or a GS rep would definitely help in promoting the game. Now, if it was Isaac, I would hope it's Adult Isaac. It would make sense in many ways because the new game would take place after Dark Dawn. In Smash, you'd be able to have Isaac's AT and Adult Isaac in the same game without getting them both confused for the newbies. He looks badass in his Adult look and could still have an alt of his classic look too. Also, Ike had his look updated from his latest game when Smash 4 came out. Why not Isaac too?

I could keep going on about this, but this was too long to write up on my phone and you get the idea of it all. These choices here make sense to me and would please a lot of fans if this was true. But I don't count on it happening either. However, a man can dream, right?
 
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Yeah it seems Sakurai's trying to eat his cake and have it too*, which isn't gonna fly for me. It's very unfortunate, but the last month has really lowered my opinion of Sakurai, because it's starting to seem like he's just kinda doing what he wants, the fans be ****ed, and has completely fallen out of touch.
Oh come on. You're losing your respect for Sakurai just because he wanted to include a few characters of his own? Is he not allowed to do that? Why should he need to pander to fans all the time? We already got Ridley, Simon, Dark Samus, K. Rool, and many other fan-favorites. It's not Sakurai's fault that Nintendo doesn't want anything to do with Golden Sun anymore, and that's why it's a good thing Isaac fans are trying to raise awareness of Golden Sun so it can be possibly revived again at some point. Stop being so ungrateful. Sakurai has worked incredibly hard and tried to please many fans while also following his own creative vision. It's his game. He can do what he wants with it.
 
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Oh come on. You're losing your respect for Sakurai just because he wanted to include a few characters of his own? Is he not allowed to do that? Why should he need to pander to fans all the time? We already got Ridley, Simon, Dark Samus, K. Rool, and many other fan-favorites. It's not Sakurai's fault that Nintendo doesn't want anything to do with Golden Sun anymore, and that's why it's a good thing Isaac fans are trying to raise awareness of Golden Sun so it can be possibly revived again at some point. Stop being so ungrateful. Sakurai has worked incredibly hard and tried to please many fans while also following his own creative vision. It's his game. He can do what he wants with it.
He can do what he wants with it and I can think what I want about it. You can be grateful and criticize at the same time. Just because someone gets 9 hits out of ten right doesn’t mean you don’t get to criticize for the missed tenth one.
 
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He can do what he wants with it and I can think what I want about it. You can be grateful and criticize at the same time. Just because someone gets 9 hits out of ten right doesn’t mean you don’t get to criticize for the missed tenth one.
I understand that, but saying that Sakurai doesn't care about the fans and is out of touch is absolutely not true.
 
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Gioka

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 16, 2018
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Oh come on. You're losing your respect for Sakurai just because he wanted to include a few characters of his own? Is he not allowed to do that? Why should he need to pander to fans all the time? We already got Ridley, Simon, Dark Samus, K. Rool, and many other fan-favorites. It's not Sakurai's fault that Nintendo doesn't want anything to do with Golden Sun anymore, and that's why it's a good thing Isaac fans are trying to raise awareness of Golden Sun so it can be possibly revived again at some point. Stop being so ungrateful. Sakurai has worked incredibly hard and tried to please many fans while also following his own creative vision. It's his game. He can do what he wants with it.
You are partially correct, the man still deserves respect for working his butt off and has followed his own vision as it is his game, what is not very good to do is to say you are doing a fan vote to decide things and not only lie about when you are going to use it but also use the results randomly without explanations, like " Oh yeah we put Chrom and Dark Samus because fan demand was high!" and at the same time not even address Isaac's popularity. He can do what he wants, of course, but I am not entirely convinced the lack of GS has to do with Nintendo alone, Sakurai could put an obscure character if he wanted, he has done so before, he put Pit in way before he was considered relevant again so... As we already pointed, Sakurai can do what he wants and if he wanted Isaac in he would have done it by now.
 
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You are partially correct, the man still deserves respect for working his butt off and has followed his own vision as it is his game, what is not very good to do is to say you are doing a fan vote to decide things and not only lie about when you are going to use it but also use the results randomly without explanations, like " Oh yeah we put Chrom and Dark Samus because fan demand was high!" and at the same time not even address Isaac's popularity. He can do what he wants, of course, but I am not entirely convinced the lack of GS has to do with Nintendo alone, Sakurai could put an obscure character if he wanted, he has done so before, he put Pit in way before he was considered relevant again so... As we already pointed, Sakurai can do what he wants and if he wanted Isaac in he would have done it by now.
I don't think Sakurai necessarily "lied". The Ballot as a whole was kind of vague. Chrom is very popular in Japan and Dark Samus is popular among Metroid fans, so fan demand was high for them. Maybe Sakurai will mention Isaac later on. I'm sure he has a logical reason for why Isaac was made an Assist Trophy again. Hopefully we'll know more in the future.
 

Gioka

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 16, 2018
Messages
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I don't think Sakurai necessarily "lied". The Ballot as a whole was kind of vague. Chrom is very popular in Japan and Dark Samus is popular among Metroid fans, so fan demand was high for them. Maybe Sakurai will mention Isaac later on. I'm sure he has a logical reason for why Isaac was made an Assist Trophy again. Hopefully we'll know more in the future.
They did say it was for DLC, so... Yeah, that was a lie. Bayonetta being the supposed winner was also a lie, SPECIALLY when they said she won because of Europe... Yeah...Right.

I know Chrom and Dark Samus are popular, I am in both of those fandoms, but individually they weren't as popular as other choices. I see more likely that Chrom was introduced due to the backlash of the bad treatment he got in Smash 4, but still, we don't have a word on Isaac or why his demand only got him back as AT, he also didn't address other popular characters who did good in the ballot and only got ATed, as well.
 

KoopaSaki

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 16, 2018
Messages
471
I don't think Sakurai necessarily "lied". The Ballot as a whole was kind of vague. Chrom is very popular in Japan and Dark Samus is popular among Metroid fans, so fan demand was high for them. Maybe Sakurai will mention Isaac later on. I'm sure he has a logical reason for why Isaac was made an Assist Trophy again. Hopefully we'll know more in the future.
Here is something I want to know from you guys. I was supporting Geno so badly during the ballot days in 2015 along with Isaac and I just wonder how Isaac placed in the polls rank wise. Did we vote enough on Isaac to at least get him the top 10 despite him not getting a mii costume as dlc in the final wave for smash 4? I wasn't as aware of Isaac's popularity back then and can anyone estimate just how hard we pushed?
 

SPEN18

Smash Ace
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supporting Geno so badly during the ballot days in 2015 along with Isaac and I just wonder how Isaac placed in the polls rank wise. Did we vote enough on Isaac to at least get him the top 10 despite him not getting a mii costume as dlc in the final wave for smash 4? I wasn't as aware of Isaac's popularity back then and can anyone estimate just how hard we pushed?
Well in the exit poll with 45000 votes Isaac was 2nd behind K Rool.
Also I doubt that Isaac would've been added back as an AT without the ballot.
We cannot be sure where exactly he placed but it should be obvious that we made some kind of an impact and Isaac was clearly among the top contenders. If not for K Rool there is a legit chance we could have won.
 
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