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Sunrise Up Again! Isaac for Smash Ultimate DLC

pupNapoleon

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The reason why they aren't really knockouts to start is because stuff like Hero and Steve and Sephiroth took longer to get started. Steve in particular we know actually did have to be revised and stages had to be redesigned, so that's likely the reason why the "sellers" are closer to the middle rather than the beginning.

That also fits with Cloud being after Ryu, even though Cloud by all rights was far bigger.
The single character we know took more time to develop, is indeed Steve. We have no reason to believe this for Hero or Sephiroth.
 

NessAtc.

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The single character we know took more time to develop, is indeed Steve. We have no reason to believe this for Hero or Sephiroth.
Of course, but based on Steve, we can safely believe that Joker and Min Min came first because they were easier to get started than any character later, whether that be due to easier communications or just easier development.

So, if that's the case and there is that level of similarity, we can take the fact that Aegis is not at the end to mean that whoever is actually at the end is a smaller deal than them.
 

pupNapoleon

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Of course, but based on Steve, we can safely believe that Joker and Min Min came first because they were easier to get started than any character later, whether that be due to easier communications or just easier development.
That is a leap in logic.
That would then indicate that Byleth was difficult to create.

I just don't know from where your conversation as to 'difficulty of implementation' has come. We have not had any comment on it in any way, short of Steve, and if it is an argument that is to be made- based on just about nothing- it cant just be chosen as a point where you see randomly fit.

Either way, we won't be waiting long before the last character.
 

NessAtc.

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That is a leap in logic.
That would then indicate that Byleth was difficult to create.

I just don't know from where your conversation as to 'difficulty of implementation' has come. We have not had any comment on it in any way, short of Steve, and if it is an argument that is to be made- based on just about nothing- it cant just be chosen as a point where you see randomly fit.

Either way, we won't be waiting long before the last character.
I meant "difficult compared to Joker/Min Min". And I believe I did say that Byleth was strategic rather than any sort of difficulty or anything.

I also didn't say that implementation was the only thing that could slow things/create challenges. Communication is a factor as well.

We also know that Kazuya was harder to do, and they completely scrapped their original draft of him. So you know, there you go.
 
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Pinguino21v

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Something to not forget is that characters are here to sell the pass to existing players, or the game to new players, but they can also be here to sell their games of origin to Smash players.
 

pupNapoleon

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Something to not forget is that characters are here to sell the pass to existing players, or the game to new players, but they can also be here to sell their games of origin to Smash players.
Or to build relations between companies, or because Sakurai just loves them (Joker and Terry really have little else in their favor, other than how much each inspired Smash Bros)... who knows what else. We don't actually know why the characters exist.
 
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Isaac: Venus Adept

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Reminder that #GoldenSun20 is in just two weeks. We want this to be as big as possible so spreading the word is appreciated
 

pupNapoleon

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I wonder what that Golden Sun looks like on my new coast...
 

pupNapoleon

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This thread is back to making me sad, that Isaac is not playable. Of all my wanted characters, more than Dixie or Toad or others, it is the one I least understand, and likely never will.
 

Diddy Kong

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This thread is back to making me sad, that Isaac is not playable. Of all my wanted characters, more than Dixie or Toad or others, it is the one I least understand, and likely never will.
To me it's easy to conceive, Dark Dawn was the last game.. and it didn't have the same success as the first two games. Thus resulted in this hiatus, which leads to Golden Sun not quite being notable enough to warrant a playable character, just maybe. I mean, it's kind of logical to see why all this has happened. But let's stay optimistic. I've been fairly optimistic about Golden Sun since I saw the reveal of the new Advance Wars game.
 

ArkSPiTFirE

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I can understand a reluctance to bring Isaac in as a fighter if it meant creating a new stage, which was probably low priority given 'Everyone is here'. But to then make him an Assist rather than hold out for DLC is a bit baffling if that's the case. So it probably points to them not caring enough about the character.

Unless he's still coming as the last one. ARMS got their character despite the Assist; there's a nice parallel there with the music still missing and second chance theory. But it's just as likely not true. He's still the most obvious first party choice Nintendo could make in my head, but I'm certain Nintendo doesn't think that way. I am at least convinced we are looking at a first party as the last pick, so my fingers are still crossed.
 
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pupNapoleon

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ARMS and Xenoblade 2 got the "AT and/or costume in base turned playable in DLC" treatment, so Golden Sun definitely can. We got the 3 big 3rd party out of the way, 3 first parties would be a good balance, 3 frontrunners for base who didn't quite make it then
The 3 big third party out of the way?
I doubt Nintendo has 3 specific 'big' third party in mind, and I certainly cannot even place which these would be, as none of the third party fit solidly into a set of three.
 

Kalaam

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The 3 big third party out of the way?
I doubt Nintendo has 3 specific 'big' third party in mind, and I certainly cannot even place which these would be, as none of the third party fit solidly into a set of three.
I mean we got 3 third party already, not implying they can be only 3.
But that's already a good amount so I doubt there is more (especially after Sephiroth and Steve)
 

pupNapoleon

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I mean we got 3 third party already, not implying they can be only 3.
But that's already a good amount so I doubt there is more (especially after Sephiroth and Steve)
I do in fact think the last character will be Nintendo-owned, and specifically I think it will most likely be:
1- Paper Mario
2- Waluigi
3- Dragaux
4- Balloon Fighter
5- Dixie Kong
6- Chorus Kids

I think, even in that order.
 

Isaac: Venus Adept

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The #GoldenSun20 anniversary celebration is in just one week so get your final preparations sorted in time and keep spreading the word

Also a couple of talented musicians are teaming up to recreate multiple iconic tracks from the series so stay tuned on that. This event is shaping up to be something special already :)
 

NessAtc.

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I can understand a reluctance to bring Isaac in as a fighter if it meant creating a new stage, which was probably low priority given 'Everyone is here'. But to then make him an Assist rather than hold out for DLC is a bit baffling if that's the case. So it probably points to them not caring enough about the character.

Unless he's still coming as the last one. ARMS got their character despite the Assist; there's a nice parallel there with the music still missing and second chance theory. But it's just as likely not true. He's still the most obvious first party choice Nintendo could make in my head, but I'm certain Nintendo doesn't think that way. I am at least convinced we are looking at a first party as the last pick, so my fingers are still crossed.
They didn't "make him an assist rather than hold out for DLC". Everything in base game was determined assuming DLC would not be occurring. This is red flag thinking that we know just isn't true based on ARMS and Xenoblade 2. ARMS got an assist and Xenoblade 2 got a mii, and both the assist and mii in both cases were the original intent for the playable DLC character. If they were "saving for DLC", those compensations would not have happened.

Sakurai has not saved anything for DLC whatsoever, and FP1 is a statement of that. That entire pass was all things that were nowhere in base game, while Pass 2, minus Steve, has all been things that had inclusion in base in at least some form.

Isaac being made an assist didn't happen because he's "out for DLC". It happened because we wanted him, but they couldn't yet do him. So he got the assist back instead, as well as the spirits, but no additional music. For ARMS, at best, it was chosen after the assist was added, but before the music selection was finalized. The music in the final game included **** as late as Mario Tennis Aces, mind.

Also, based on how ARMS and Xenoblade 2, both from 2017, were the ones chosen for fighter packs, but not more recent stuff like ring fit or astral chain, it seems clear to me that the pool of pass 2 characters was decided on quite early indeed. Remember, even if Heihachi's appearance in base was miniscule, it was still only done with permission.

So no, we're not likely to get Paper Mario, or Dragaux (why). And Waluigi has always had his own problems that have nothing to do with popularity.
 
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ArkSPiTFirE

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Well I'm sure they expected DLC to happen, but they could have already had a good idea about which third parties they wanted to bring on for FP1. So again the priority was there.

I know we can say that about ARMS and XB2, but they weren't saved for later since we know they missed the cut off point. So DLC was the next best thing, despite the extra additions. That's not relevant to Isaac, I'm sure the only thing holding him back is higher priorities, which basically comes down to relevancy and marketability in the end.
 

Guynamednelson

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I'm sure the only thing holding him back is higher priorities, which basically comes down to relevancy and marketability in the end.
Sure but you have to remember, Smash loves exploiting when people have already gained interest in the big ****, while all the "shill picks" have been spirited, so where do we go from there? Certainly not "m-maybe they'll go for a smaller third party?" because it seems like FP1 was the pass for that, not proof that there needs to be a "small third party" quota.

In hindsight it kind of makes sense that a lot of potential Switch reps have been spirited, they COULD shill Switch games over and over with their Smash fighters, but there's more audiences to gain money from.
 
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SonicLink125

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Almost looks like Mii Isaac was sent out to find something. I wonder what? lol


This artist is so good! She has something else ready soon. Stay tuned! ;)

When it all comes down to it, I think a lot of us can agree that the inclusion of Isaac (and GS in general) has been the most strangest things to happen in Smash Ultimate. I won't go into detail, but there's a lot that is going in his favor. However, it does not mean he's a guarantee, unfortunately.
I will say this though, there is a very high chance that FP11 is 1st Party. Especially since Sakurai is not in a hurry to even reveal this character. Mostly telling me that this character won't be THAT big in the likes of say Sora or Master Chief and the like. But Sakurai could still surprise us though. So, who really knows?
 

True Blue Warrior

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Assuming a September Direct will happen, the final Smash character should be revealed there. Going all the way back to Smash 4, the only third-party characters that were revealed in a regular Nintendo Direct were :ultcloud::ult_terry:. It will be interesting to see how things will pan out.
 

Isaac: Venus Adept

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#GoldenSun20 is in just ONE day my fellow adepts! Bare minimum ya'll can do is a simple post with the hashtag, we really want this to trend so as much help as possible is appreciated :)

Also TandA has given more detail on the VVGO Golden Sun music event and was nice enough to make countdown for both their performance and the #GoldenSun20 celebration

 

StrawHatX

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So Sakurai decided to tweet about Pokémon Stadium’s anniversary and NOT Golden Sun’s anniversary…

I don’t think Sakurai cares about Golden Sun guys…..

Oh well.. As much as I’d love to see Isaac as a playable character it’s always been an unlikely dream and I would much rather see a new game or a remaster anyways. Hopefully Advance Wars Reboot Camp does well. I’ll definitely be picking that up.
 
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Swamp Sensei

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So Sakurai decided to tweet about Pokémon Stadium’s anniversary and NOT Golden Sun’s anniversary…

I don’t think Sakurai cares about Golden Sun guys…..

Oh well.. As much as I’d love to see Isaac as a playable character it’s always been an unlikely dream and I would much rather see a new game or a remaster anyways. Hopefully Advance Wars Reboot Camp does well. I’ll definitely be picking that up.
From what I understand, Golden Sun is kind of unknown in many Japanese circles.

It's historical presence on the GBA isn't as huge of a deal there because its just one of many RPGs.

I can definitely understand why a major Pokemon game would have their anniversary noted before Golden Sun.

All that said, its best not to assume Sakurai's personal feelings of a franchise with stuff like this. If he really didn't like Golden Sun, we wouldn't have as much content in Smash as we do now. Heck, it has a ton of spirits considering it has no character.

Some franchises are just unlucky.
 
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Guynamednelson

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From what I understand, Golden Sun is kind of unknown in many Japanese circles
Japan is a nation where you only need about 100,000 fans to get what requires 50 bajillion fans in the west, its sales over there aren't the issue. However, this...
It's historical presence on the GBA isn't as huge of a big deal there because its just one of many RPGs
might be, since Japanese people would have a wider range of JRPGs than us for obvious reasons.
 

Swamp Sensei

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Japan is a nation where you only need about 100,000 fans to get what requires 50 bajillion fans in the west, its sales over there aren't the issue. However, this...
Oh I didn't imply it sold poorly. The franchise is very sucessful.

It's just Golden Sun, isn't a franchise Japanese fans seem to remember much compared to western ones.
 

Guynamednelson

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Oh I didn't imply it sold poorly. The franchise is very sucessful.

It's just Golden Sun, isn't a franchise Japanese fans seem to remember much compared to western ones.
That, I agree on. IF Nintendo chose him for CP11 (remember, I said IF, not saying he's a lock), it'd be a very Western-focused pick, as his demand mostly comes from there plus Western fans are more likely to see ATs as vastly inferior.
 

ArkSPiTFirE

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Damn, that's sus as hell, but not in the way I would like. You'd think that the far more obscure stuff getting a shout out and a pattern of all the assist trophies getting one, -and- the 20th anniversary would point to Golden Sun getting something.

I'm sure it doesn't mean as much as it looks like, but sheesh.
 

Isaac: Venus Adept

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The #GoldenSun20 event is live! Come join us and let's really get this thing trending
 

Nazyrus

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Happy #GoldenSun20 everyone!

We easily made it trend already in fact

Also I suggest you guys get the 20th anniversary celebratory pin that JobJobLLC and LegendsCookbook released today. It's limited edition so be sure you get it before it's out 🌞

Sneak peek of how it looks in physical…
image0 copy 3.jpg
 
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Nazyrus

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FINALLY Sakurai, finally Golden Sun gets an anniversary post to acknowledge the series. So good that he did it still being August 1st in some countries too. Awesome picture too.
 

Mushroomguy12

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FINALLY Sakurai, finally Golden Sun gets an anniversary post to acknowledge the series. So good that he did it still being August 1st in some countries too. Awesome picture too.
Today in 2001, "Golden Sun" (Golden Sun) is on sale !! Robin's assist figure uses an energy called move. In this volume, it is a convenient one that can move rocks and pillars. Two sequels have been produced, but the third one is 30 years later. Isaac's son is the main character. #Smash Bros SP
 

Isaac: Venus Adept

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It's been a wonderful #GoldenSun20 today, check the IsaacAdepts account for all the cool stuff people made today
Also Sakurai finally mentioned Golden Sun yes, and he did a pretty decent evaluation on his assist trophy and the status of the series. (He doesn't hate it guys lmao).
Also I made a reply to him, it'll be cool if ya'll can gas it up =)
 
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