• The new bonus episode of the Smash Brothers Documentary Metagame, Godslayer, is now available on Vimeo

  • Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Sunrise Up Again! Isaac for Smash Ultimate DLC

pupNapoleon

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
8,607
Location
Miami, NYC
NNID
NapoleonPlays
3DS FC
5129-1683-5306
Switch FC
SW 3124 9647 8311
The reason why they aren't really knockouts to start is because stuff like Hero and Steve and Sephiroth took longer to get started. Steve in particular we know actually did have to be revised and stages had to be redesigned, so that's likely the reason why the "sellers" are closer to the middle rather than the beginning.

That also fits with Cloud being after Ryu, even though Cloud by all rights was far bigger.
The single character we know took more time to develop, is indeed Steve. We have no reason to believe this for Hero or Sephiroth.
 

NessAtc.

Fukou Da...
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
922
Location
Vancouver Island
NNID
nintenstar98
3DS FC
4699-7691-7794
Switch FC
SW-2476-6260-3913
The single character we know took more time to develop, is indeed Steve. We have no reason to believe this for Hero or Sephiroth.
Of course, but based on Steve, we can safely believe that Joker and Min Min came first because they were easier to get started than any character later, whether that be due to easier communications or just easier development.

So, if that's the case and there is that level of similarity, we can take the fact that Aegis is not at the end to mean that whoever is actually at the end is a smaller deal than them.
 

pupNapoleon

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
8,607
Location
Miami, NYC
NNID
NapoleonPlays
3DS FC
5129-1683-5306
Switch FC
SW 3124 9647 8311
Of course, but based on Steve, we can safely believe that Joker and Min Min came first because they were easier to get started than any character later, whether that be due to easier communications or just easier development.
That is a leap in logic.
That would then indicate that Byleth was difficult to create.

I just don't know from where your conversation as to 'difficulty of implementation' has come. We have not had any comment on it in any way, short of Steve, and if it is an argument that is to be made- based on just about nothing- it cant just be chosen as a point where you see randomly fit.

Either way, we won't be waiting long before the last character.
 

NessAtc.

Fukou Da...
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
922
Location
Vancouver Island
NNID
nintenstar98
3DS FC
4699-7691-7794
Switch FC
SW-2476-6260-3913
That is a leap in logic.
That would then indicate that Byleth was difficult to create.

I just don't know from where your conversation as to 'difficulty of implementation' has come. We have not had any comment on it in any way, short of Steve, and if it is an argument that is to be made- based on just about nothing- it cant just be chosen as a point where you see randomly fit.

Either way, we won't be waiting long before the last character.
I meant "difficult compared to Joker/Min Min". And I believe I did say that Byleth was strategic rather than any sort of difficulty or anything.

I also didn't say that implementation was the only thing that could slow things/create challenges. Communication is a factor as well.

We also know that Kazuya was harder to do, and they completely scrapped their original draft of him. So you know, there you go.
 
Last edited:

Pinguino21v

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 5, 2018
Messages
533
Location
France
Something to not forget is that characters are here to sell the pass to existing players, or the game to new players, but they can also be here to sell their games of origin to Smash players.
 

pupNapoleon

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
8,607
Location
Miami, NYC
NNID
NapoleonPlays
3DS FC
5129-1683-5306
Switch FC
SW 3124 9647 8311
Something to not forget is that characters are here to sell the pass to existing players, or the game to new players, but they can also be here to sell their games of origin to Smash players.
Or to build relations between companies, or because Sakurai just loves them (Joker and Terry really have little else in their favor, other than how much each inspired Smash Bros)... who knows what else. We don't actually know why the characters exist.
 
Last edited:

Isaac: Venus Adept

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
1,477
Location
Weyard
Reminder that #GoldenSun20 is in just two weeks. We want this to be as big as possible so spreading the word is appreciated
 

pupNapoleon

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
8,607
Location
Miami, NYC
NNID
NapoleonPlays
3DS FC
5129-1683-5306
Switch FC
SW 3124 9647 8311
I wonder what that Golden Sun looks like on my new coast...
 

pupNapoleon

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
8,607
Location
Miami, NYC
NNID
NapoleonPlays
3DS FC
5129-1683-5306
Switch FC
SW 3124 9647 8311
This thread is back to making me sad, that Isaac is not playable. Of all my wanted characters, more than Dixie or Toad or others, it is the one I least understand, and likely never will.
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
24,927
Switch FC
SW-1597-979602774
This thread is back to making me sad, that Isaac is not playable. Of all my wanted characters, more than Dixie or Toad or others, it is the one I least understand, and likely never will.
To me it's easy to conceive, Dark Dawn was the last game.. and it didn't have the same success as the first two games. Thus resulted in this hiatus, which leads to Golden Sun not quite being notable enough to warrant a playable character, just maybe. I mean, it's kind of logical to see why all this has happened. But let's stay optimistic. I've been fairly optimistic about Golden Sun since I saw the reveal of the new Advance Wars game.
 

ArkSPiTFirE

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 18, 2018
Messages
155
Location
United Kingdom
I can understand a reluctance to bring Isaac in as a fighter if it meant creating a new stage, which was probably low priority given 'Everyone is here'. But to then make him an Assist rather than hold out for DLC is a bit baffling if that's the case. So it probably points to them not caring enough about the character.

Unless he's still coming as the last one. ARMS got their character despite the Assist; there's a nice parallel there with the music still missing and second chance theory. But it's just as likely not true. He's still the most obvious first party choice Nintendo could make in my head, but I'm certain Nintendo doesn't think that way. I am at least convinced we are looking at a first party as the last pick, so my fingers are still crossed.
 
Last edited:

pupNapoleon

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
8,607
Location
Miami, NYC
NNID
NapoleonPlays
3DS FC
5129-1683-5306
Switch FC
SW 3124 9647 8311
ARMS and Xenoblade 2 got the "AT and/or costume in base turned playable in DLC" treatment, so Golden Sun definitely can. We got the 3 big 3rd party out of the way, 3 first parties would be a good balance, 3 frontrunners for base who didn't quite make it then
The 3 big third party out of the way?
I doubt Nintendo has 3 specific 'big' third party in mind, and I certainly cannot even place which these would be, as none of the third party fit solidly into a set of three.
 

Kalaam

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
796
Location
France
The 3 big third party out of the way?
I doubt Nintendo has 3 specific 'big' third party in mind, and I certainly cannot even place which these would be, as none of the third party fit solidly into a set of three.
I mean we got 3 third party already, not implying they can be only 3.
But that's already a good amount so I doubt there is more (especially after Sephiroth and Steve)
 

pupNapoleon

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 24, 2014
Messages
8,607
Location
Miami, NYC
NNID
NapoleonPlays
3DS FC
5129-1683-5306
Switch FC
SW 3124 9647 8311
I mean we got 3 third party already, not implying they can be only 3.
But that's already a good amount so I doubt there is more (especially after Sephiroth and Steve)
I do in fact think the last character will be Nintendo-owned, and specifically I think it will most likely be:
1- Paper Mario
2- Waluigi
3- Dragaux
4- Balloon Fighter
5- Dixie Kong
6- Chorus Kids

I think, even in that order.
 

Isaac: Venus Adept

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
1,477
Location
Weyard
The #GoldenSun20 anniversary celebration is in just one week so get your final preparations sorted in time and keep spreading the word

Also a couple of talented musicians are teaming up to recreate multiple iconic tracks from the series so stay tuned on that. This event is shaping up to be something special already :)
 

NessAtc.

Fukou Da...
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
922
Location
Vancouver Island
NNID
nintenstar98
3DS FC
4699-7691-7794
Switch FC
SW-2476-6260-3913
I can understand a reluctance to bring Isaac in as a fighter if it meant creating a new stage, which was probably low priority given 'Everyone is here'. But to then make him an Assist rather than hold out for DLC is a bit baffling if that's the case. So it probably points to them not caring enough about the character.

Unless he's still coming as the last one. ARMS got their character despite the Assist; there's a nice parallel there with the music still missing and second chance theory. But it's just as likely not true. He's still the most obvious first party choice Nintendo could make in my head, but I'm certain Nintendo doesn't think that way. I am at least convinced we are looking at a first party as the last pick, so my fingers are still crossed.
They didn't "make him an assist rather than hold out for DLC". Everything in base game was determined assuming DLC would not be occurring. This is red flag thinking that we know just isn't true based on ARMS and Xenoblade 2. ARMS got an assist and Xenoblade 2 got a mii, and both the assist and mii in both cases were the original intent for the playable DLC character. If they were "saving for DLC", those compensations would not have happened.

Sakurai has not saved anything for DLC whatsoever, and FP1 is a statement of that. That entire pass was all things that were nowhere in base game, while Pass 2, minus Steve, has all been things that had inclusion in base in at least some form.

Isaac being made an assist didn't happen because he's "out for DLC". It happened because we wanted him, but they couldn't yet do him. So he got the assist back instead, as well as the spirits, but no additional music. For ARMS, at best, it was chosen after the assist was added, but before the music selection was finalized. The music in the final game included **** as late as Mario Tennis Aces, mind.

Also, based on how ARMS and Xenoblade 2, both from 2017, were the ones chosen for fighter packs, but not more recent stuff like ring fit or astral chain, it seems clear to me that the pool of pass 2 characters was decided on quite early indeed. Remember, even if Heihachi's appearance in base was miniscule, it was still only done with permission.

So no, we're not likely to get Paper Mario, or Dragaux (why). And Waluigi has always had his own problems that have nothing to do with popularity.
 
Last edited:

ArkSPiTFirE

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 18, 2018
Messages
155
Location
United Kingdom
Well I'm sure they expected DLC to happen, but they could have already had a good idea about which third parties they wanted to bring on for FP1. So again the priority was there.

I know we can say that about ARMS and XB2, but they weren't saved for later since we know they missed the cut off point. So DLC was the next best thing, despite the extra additions. That's not relevant to Isaac, I'm sure the only thing holding him back is higher priorities, which basically comes down to relevancy and marketability in the end.
 

Guynamednelson

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
7,950
NNID
Nelson340
3DS FC
2105-8742-2099
Switch FC
SW 4265 6024 9719
I'm sure the only thing holding him back is higher priorities, which basically comes down to relevancy and marketability in the end.
Sure but you have to remember, Smash loves exploiting when people have already gained interest in the big ****, while all the "shill picks" have been spirited, so where do we go from there? Certainly not "m-maybe they'll go for a smaller third party?" because it seems like FP1 was the pass for that, not proof that there needs to be a "small third party" quota.

In hindsight it kind of makes sense that a lot of potential Switch reps have been spirited, they COULD shill Switch games over and over with their Smash fighters, but there's more audiences to gain money from.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom