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Sunrise Up Again! Isaac for Smash Ultimate DLC

SPEN18

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Yeah the roster as a whole has so little focus or coherence at this point, and excess focus on third-parties seems to be the main reason why. I've said before that making Smash a "celebration of all gaming" is an unrealistic goal, while representing Nintendo's IP could have already been (essentially) satisfactorily achieved by this point if they hadn't gone so hard at the 3P collabs. Of course, 3P reps are highly profitable and that's all the reason Nintendo needs to add them, but it's odd to see such a huge roster with so few of the characters that I thought during the Brawl days would've been slam dunks to join by now.
Personally, I'm not dreading a bit of a roster shave in a hypothetical Smash 6 because I think it could be a good opportunity to clean up the representation of a number of series, and also because 3P characters could be more likely to get axed if they can't get all the rights back.
 

Isaac: Venus Adept

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Alright, here's my ultimate crackpot theory that is most likely not true but is just plausible enough for me to share it:

The Switch Pro is what caused Golden Sun to be delayed and Mario Golf to be made.

Hear me out: we know Camelot self-funds their games, they have for decades. It is quite possible, as many of us here have theorized, that Camelot saw the demand for Isaac (and therefore Golden Sun) on the Smash Ballot and decided to begin work on a new Golden Sun game (remake for new game, whatever, doesn't matter in this theory). Mario Tennis Aces was Camelot's biggest success ever, it sold more than even the Wii's Mario Tennis. Therefore, they had quite a bit of money to throw around and Golden Sun was a passion project they were allowed to make thanks to the success of Mario Tennis.

So, they began work in mid-2018 or so, around the time Aces was released (and work on the game was passed to Nintendo's internal staff, as they did all post-game content) with Nintendo filing a brand new trademark to go alongside the game in August (as we know they did). Development was proceeding roughly (it would be Camelot's first HD RPG, after all) until around perhaps late 2019 or early 2020 or so, when Nintendo told Camelot about the next Switch model, a more powerful model that I'm calling the Switch Pro. Now, HD development, and especially HD RPG development is hard and very, very expensive. Camelot was probably already running low on funds and the news of needing to develop for an even more powerful system (possibly even optimizing the game for it) probably spooks the Takahashis into wanting more funds for the game. So, they halt production on Golden Sun temporarily to get more funds for the game.

What game can they make that wouldn't be super expensive but could lead to a big profit? That's right, Mario Golf. They already have the engine made for Tennis, and by collaborating with Nintendo's internal staff as well, they can get this game out the door as soon as possible. Coronavirus certainly throws a wrench into that, which is why the game was unavailable for the Mario 35th Anniversary Direct. Camelot's younger staff probably also needs help learning the ropes of RPG development, so they implement some RPG-like mechanics into Mario Golf so those staff members can learn the ropes and make Golden Sun's development go smoother.

Mario Golf is set to release in July 2021, which would be about a year and a half from when I assume it started (giving GS about a year and half of development as well if I'm correct) which makes sense, given that was about how long MTA took and that required a whole engine to be built. Even taking into account the couple-month delay the game would've taken due to COVID, the time to make still makes sense, especially if Nintendo helped like I think they did.

In conclusion, rising HD development costs forced Camelot to hold off on GS' production until they could acquire more funding and thus Mario Golf was born. They took the opportunity to implement RPG mechanics in the game to help their staff learn not only HD development, but also RPG development specifically for Golden Sun. Admittedly, this doesn't necessarily require that the Switch Pro is involved, but ultimately my theory hinges on HD development costs exceeding what Camelot budgeted for and them requiring more cash flow.
Honestly you make a lot of good points here, we do know Camelot games had mediocre sales in their titles released on DS, 3DS and Wii U so a follow up to Golden Sun in that period would've felt more risky. With Aces being the first truly big hit they've had since the early 2000s and Mario Golf Super Rush showing how much more extensive they're getting with HD development. It does make the development of a Golden Sun game a much more fitting prospect than it was in their situation years ago. Us fans just need to keep letting Camelot and Nintendo know that we love the series and that we still want a new instalment in the series. To start with partaking in the 20th anniversary event we have planned for August would be really helpful

Also I made fun mockup of how the Golden Sun cast would look on the Super Rush courses
 

TempestSurge

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One thing that does piss me off though is how the community as a whole gets pissed off when a first party character is revealed. Most people get upset when it’s not a third party.

I absolutely detest this mentality. I appreciate a mix of both. I thought this pass would be half first and half third and I still believe that. This is still a NINTENDO game that started off representing different Nintendo IP’s. Some people seem to forget that and want nothing but third party DLC passes.

I’m so happy Pyra/Mythra got in because I love the Xenoblade series. Even if we don’t get a GS character I’d love to see another first party character like Dixie Kong, BWD, or Porky. But it’ll probably be another Pokémon rep.

I still believe Crash is the E3 announcement and I think he’ll be the last third party rep unless we get another pass or single DLC characters.
It's pretty funny since Rex and Pyra were on so many prediction video thumbnails and if this was way back when the fandom would go nuts over this inclusion. Yeah don't like the new age of 3rd parties. Only two new first party franchise additions. I want to take a time machine back to 2014 lol
 

Kalaam

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Yeah, 3rd party is taking too much space, it's too much about big characters crushing smaller ones.
If it's older 3rd parties, I'm fine with it. They do have a strong history with video game History in general. But super recent characters like Joker do feel like "flavor of the month" characters to me.
Same with Pyrrha, I mean I'm happy for Xenoblade 2 fans, but I want stuff from franchises that have no representation in the playable lineup...
 

DrakeHavok

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 29, 2020
Messages
54
Same with Pyrrha, I mean I'm happy for Xenoblade 2 fans, but I want stuff from franchises that have no representation in the playable lineup...
Eeeh, I don't really see a problem with Xenoblade getting a second character. If it was Fire Emblem again (or Mario or even Pokemon) I'd be more annoyed, but for a series that has lots of characters but only one playable in Smash, a second seems alright. I would still prefer more characters from unrepped series, of course, but Nintendo doesn't really seem to care about older series that aren't already in Smash for what are probably corporate reasons.
 
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SonicLink125

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It is now 90%(?) complete and ready to be shown off now! Ha ha!


With what has transpired recently since the Direct. While it hurt that Golf was shown first instead of Golden Sun, I have not lost hope. In fact, this just means that they have no other IP to work on except GS now that Golf is out of the way. We just have to keep the hype and support going just a little longer. Had we been doing this since 2010, we could have already got a new game, but because we stayed dormant, it hurt us bad. We’ve been going at this strong for nearly 3 years now and it has been amazing to see fans all across the world coming together to show their love for this wonderful series. I’ve never seen this community be this active like this in so long. It’s been so fun an amazing! I have been so happy to call myself a GS fan. I am not going to let Golf bring us down after so much work we’ve done. In all honesty, this should give us even more reason to be more vocal, more passionate (respectively of course) and to convince Nintendo/Camelot to bring Golden Sun back more than ever.

Also, while there are very VERY good theories as to what’s going on with Golden Sun, it still comes down to two big issues:
1) Golf could not have taken 2-3 years to make alone
2) The NEW GS Trademark

We might not know the whole story, but I “personally” like to believe Golden Sun has indeed been in development for some time now and Golf was an experiment for the staff to get used to RPG/Open World/HD/Etc. mechanics for GS while also help earn more funds for the project through Golf. In that perspective, it makes far mor sense that they’ve been quiet for 3 years. So, there’s my “small” take on the situation.

Regardless, let’s keep the support for GS going! We also got a 20th Anniversary to prepare. Let’s make it a BIG one! ☀
 
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Billybae10K

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Well, at least Billybo10k's Golden Sun video is getting attention:


Just, um, not the kind we would've liked...
I have to admit that tweet hurts. Yes, the video has aged poorly, but it came from a point of wanting to help compile information at the time for the community, as well as to help boost franchise recognition. So... I just feel mocked, especially reading the replies and seeing how multiple industry people are effectively ripping into the GS fandom & myself, for the sake of a joke.
 

Xenigma

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I have to admit that tweet hurts. Yes, the video has aged poorly, but it came from a point of wanting to help compile information at the time for the community, as well as to help boost franchise recognition. So... I just feel mocked, especially reading the replies and seeing how multiple industry people are effectively ripping into the GS fandom & myself, for the sake of a joke.
The internet is doing what the internet does. The video's still good, and Golden Sun for Switch isn't even truly dead yet, just not coming as soon as we'd hoped. Y'know we all still appreciate the effort and are happy to keep showing our support for the franchise, whether Nintendo follows up or not.
 

chocolatejr9

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I have to admit that tweet hurts. Yes, the video has aged poorly, but it came from a point of wanting to help compile information at the time for the community, as well as to help boost franchise recognition. So... I just feel mocked, especially reading the replies and seeing how multiple industry people are effectively ripping into the GS fandom & myself, for the sake of a joke.
Sorry for sharing it. I didn't mean to make anybody upset. I just wanted to show that people were at least aware of you guy's situation.

I guess I didn't think this one through...
 

Billybae10K

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Sorry for sharing it. I didn't mean to make anybody upset. I just wanted to show that people were at least aware of you guy's situation.

I guess I didn't think this one through...
Not your fault, I'd seen it prior to you posting it, via twitter. I just feel like, even if his intentions were genuine, him posting my video like that kinda puts me on blast, when I feel my video spoke for itself, for the time it was made.
 

Gioka

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 16, 2018
Messages
458
Well, at least Billybo10k's Golden Sun video is getting attention:


Just, um, not the kind we would've liked...
Uhh. Nope. That's just such a ****ty thing to do, especially with the targeting. They could just say the same thing in the tweet about all of us and I would just be like "oh well, sad but true" but no. The person really had to go out of their way to link a specific person on the community for the clog and that's just terrible.
 

Xenigma

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This also seems as good a time as any to note that if Mario Golf is releasing end of June, Camelot ought be in the final stages of development and quite possibly planning their next project. Even in the absolute worst case scenario that Golden Sun hasn't even been considered by Camelot/Nintendo, this is a pretty great time to get our voices out there and make sure it's on their radar going forward. I'm no community leader, but if we're interested in doing another mail campaign or such sooner rather than later, I know I'm game.
 
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N3ON

The Less I Know the Better
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Unless it was just brought to his attention, to have saved and remembered the video means he was invested in you guys being wrong. That's not a particularly kind person. He's also not without a blemished track record himself. Still waiting on that playable Shovel Knight.

On the flip side, you guys are going to expose yourselves to that kind of thing, that smug derision which is... not exactly rare on the internet, when you so heavily double down on frail theories, which the trademark thing was when you consider how many other Nintendo trademarks were filed in 2018, and how stuff like slightly above average turnaround time in the midst of a pandemic are your main tenets. If you compound that with a rather unforgiving disposition to people who can see the holes in those theories, you're not going to engender much sympathy and people will root against you.

It's on the same wavelength of why people were going "thank **** we're done with all that" when Geno got costume'd. It wasn't out of an irrational hatred for Geno, or even an indiscriminate bias against the fans, as they so believed. It was because of a plugging-your-ears kind of defence to their rather untethered theorizing. This obviously wasn't on that level, but there were some parallels.

And I don't want to see the fanbase get mocked. We've been through enough and basically never have it easy. But sometimes accepting how stacked the odds are against you is the best way to keep pushing ahead; staying hungry until you've actually got what you want in your hands. Not through seeing the outcome you want around every corner, because the people outside of that will be able to see how absurd that can look. Not to mention how you yourself will just be constantly disappointed that way.

There's respect in being the underdog, while there's a stark lack thereof when you break out the yarn and the tinfoil and tell everyone how right you are. I know this is tough love, but I don't want to see you guys falling into the same quagmires going forward.
 
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Gioka

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This also seems as good a time as any to note that if Mario Golf is releasing end of June, Camelot ought be in the final stages of development and quite possibly planning their next project. Even in the absolute worst case scenario that Golden Sun hasn't even been considered by Camelot/Nintendo, this is a pretty great time to get our voices out there and make sure it's on their radar going forward. I'm no community leader, but if we're interested in doing another mail campaign or such sooner rather than later, I know I'm game.
Even if I agree with you in terms of timing, I also feel going for another mail campaign or similar would be too soon, at least for the community, plenty of people even if we have been respectful and took it kindly are still dealing with disappointment and processing thoughts with the situation, particularly considering how long (apparently) it has been in development, so I fear it just wouldnt be anywhere near as successful as our previous one where we were in a "more beneficial" position. I think the best we can do right now as community is prepare for the Golden Sun 20 anniversary event in August and try to get it trending again.
 

One-Winged Bagel

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A petition could also look a lot like a kneejerk reaction than a legit response. I'd wait on it too, after reading what you guys said. I know I suggested it earlier, but you could say my thought was a kneejerk reaction.

That said, don't the sports Mario games have DLC lately? If so, Camelot may be involved for a bit, though they can still work on GS during that time(assuming it's greenlit and not just a port being optimized for the Switch, which means making sure it doesn't look horrid in HD. Many games do not transfer well onto some screens). I'm not saying this to be a debbie downer, but I've realized that trend and it legit worries me we have a longgggg time to wait.
 

Gioka

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That said, don't the sports Mario games have DLC lately? If so, Camelot may be involved for a bit, though they can still work on GS during that time(assuming it's greenlit and not just a port being optimized for the Switch, which means making sure it doesn't look horrid in HD. Many games do not transfer well onto some screens). I'm not saying this to be a debbie downer, but I've realized that trend and it legit worries me we have a longgggg time to wait.
Yes, they do, but Aces' DLC was managed mainly by an internal Nintendo team, so they could also repeat that formula and hand it off after release. Either way, it is too soon to know, GS could be in the works, could be drafted, could be just an upscaled port bundle launching soon-ish or not in discussion at all, we are just not in a position to know regardless, as sad as that is.
 

Isaac: Venus Adept

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We already have something planned which is to celebrate the 20th anniversary in August. We had this planned and announced before the reveal of Golf so it isn't meant as a knee-jerk reaction to that
Letter campaign, fanart and whatever you guys plan on doing is all fair game as long as behaviour is civil.
 

One-Winged Bagel

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Yes, they do, but Aces' DLC was managed mainly by an internal Nintendo team, so they could also repeat that formula and hand it off after release. Either way, it is too soon to know, GS could be in the works, could be drafted, could be just an upscaled port bundle launching soon-ish or not in discussion at all, we are just not in a position to know regardless, as sad as that is.
Ah, thank you. I'm way less worried now. :)
 

One-Winged Bagel

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Need to add that Camelot finished work on Aces in Dec 2017 and gave it to Nintendo's internal team to polish it up and to do the DLC.
Oh, huh. Interesting.

Good to know that timeline. I wonder when they started the Golf game then. Maybe they've been working lightly on a GS thing, but only when they're not working on Golf? That'd make sense. Nintendo okayed two products, but noted one has a due date, and the other they're free to release later. Not a theory I must put stock into, but companies do work on multiple things at once. There's a reason GameFreak could barely make the Gen 8 games look decent. That, and you know, some pretty bad due dates...
 

Guynamednelson

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Need to add that Camelot finished work on Aces in Dec 2017 and gave it to Nintendo's internal team to polish it up and to do the DLC.
If Super Rush comes out and it's revealed that it doesn't really have enough content that would warrant 3 years of development by the whole team, I'll be suspicious.
 
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One-Winged Bagel

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Just to remind people, Camelot cannot magically work on GS. They could actually be not working on something for a while as is. They could've been working on Mario Golf that entire time(and not with the content that justifies 3 years) because it had a specific date of when to come out, while not actually letting them start another game till a specific date.

Business actually does work that way. I don't disagree with people, but it's not as suspicious as you might think. Especially seeing as how Camelot cannot work on anything without approval. Also, we have no clue what's the future for Nintendo. It could a Mario Sports game in general they also are working on, which we did not see that trademark used yet. ...Thought hat only makes sense if they worked on more than Golf, Tennis, and GS for Nintendo. I forget who does stuff like Mario Sports Mix. >.<;

Just saying overall there's more than one possible explanation. Not saying to not hope, but we just saw the trademark unused and it proved if we take information a bit stronger than it might be, we can be burned. Or in other words, it might be a good idea to be a little cautious. We just got burned prettttttty hard.
 

One-Winged Bagel

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With Mario Golf Super Rush coming do you guys think its possible we could encourage Camelot to add Golden Sun characters as guest DLC for Mario Golf Super Rush?
Well, if the above is correct... they aren't even working on the DLC. So you'd have to convince Nintendo or another team. I'm pretty sure Camelot just develops the games but doesn't own the GS content.

If they are working on the DLC, it'd be possible, yeah. I mean, this is a great time to show off some silly fun with GS. Like, they can exist outside of Smash and their own games. All kinds of characters are fun to put as guests.
 

TempestSurge

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I'd be up for an email campaign to Camelot timed for the upcoming Golden Sun anniversary. It's so odd to me that the Takahashi Brothers left a message to the fans about the status of the series going forward and years later we don't have a follow up. Whether they feel there's still not enough demand for it, whether Nintendo is stricter in what they can make, whether they no longer think they can make Golden Sun a worthy project up to fan's standards. Just any kind of acknowledgement to know that they've heard us even if it's to say, 'Unfortunately...'

We talk about Nintendo. But during the letter campaign, if I'm not mistaken I think it was FlawedAI FlawedAI who was actually given the email to Camelot in their letter. It's like the Spiderman meme. Place Golden Sun on one pointing at Nintendo and Camelot, who are then pointing at each other.

My fear is despite doing those letter campaigns to Nintendo and all the social media exposure with Golden Sundays, that Camelot themselves still don't know we want Golden Sun. They could be in the belief that fans are severely disappointed and done after Dark Dawn and moved on to other series. And I'm not certain if Nintendo would make Camelot aware that fans have been reaching out and sending letters in hopes of the series return.

On top of that Camelot has no Twitter, which takes out that ease of reaching them like other game devs. I think one Takahashi Brother may be on there but don't know if he's active. This is why I think it's important to do the email campaign to Camelot as it'll take away the doubt of whether they truly heard us or not. And fan demand was the last thing put forward by them before the radio silence we've come to know.
 

Isaac: Venus Adept

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If Square Enix were able to put Final Fantasy's characters in Sports Mix and Hoops then I don't see why Camelot wouldn't be allowed allowed to include Golden Sun characters that Nintendo owns. The reason they might’ve not done it yet might be with Camelot not wanting to have a clash of artstyles or a desire to keep it solely Mario themed on their own accords.
On top of that Camelot has no Twitter, which takes out that ease of reaching them like other game devs. I think one Takahashi Brother may be on there but don't know if he's active. This is why I think it's important to do the email campaign to Camelot as it'll take away the doubt of whether they truly heard us or not. And fan demand was the last thing put forward by them before the radio silence we've come to know.
Shugo Takahashi recently tweeted about Super Rush and the replies to the tweet are overwhelmingly Golden Sun. I'm happy all the response are civil and I'm hoping he's gotten to reading them.
Also I posted the email Camelot uses to hear from foreign language users here if you're interested. I highly recommend we should send them something through it regarding how much we love the games and want to see them return
 
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ArkSPiTFirE

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I'd be up for an email campaign to Camelot timed for the upcoming Golden Sun anniversary. It's so odd to me that the Takahashi Brothers left a message to the fans about the status of the series going forward and years later we don't have a follow up. Whether they feel there's still not enough demand for it, whether Nintendo is stricter in what they can make, whether they no longer think they can make Golden Sun a worthy project up to fan's standards. Just any kind of acknowledgement to know that they've heard us even if it's to say, 'Unfortunately...'

We talk about Nintendo. But during the letter campaign, if I'm not mistaken I think it was FlawedAI FlawedAI who was actually given the email to Camelot in their letter. It's like the Spiderman meme. Place Golden Sun on one pointing at Nintendo and Camelot, who are then pointing at each other.

My fear is despite doing those letter campaigns to Nintendo and all the social media exposure with Golden Sundays, that Camelot themselves still don't know we want Golden Sun. They could be in the belief that fans are severely disappointed and done after Dark Dawn and moved on to other series. And I'm not certain if Nintendo would make Camelot aware that fans have been reaching out and sending letters in hopes of the series return.

On top of that Camelot has no Twitter, which takes out that ease of reaching them like other game devs. I think one Takahashi Brother may be on there but don't know if he's active. This is why I think it's important to do the email campaign to Camelot as it'll take away the doubt of whether they truly heard us or not. And fan demand was the last thing put forward by them before the radio silence we've come to know.
Yeah one is, and his post about Mario Golf is almost entirely some form of "Thank you, I hope Golden Sun is next."
 

Nauzgo

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Assumed we do get Golden Sun remakes at some point, do they have to be made by Camelot? I was thinking, if it were "only" remakes, they could be taken over by some other team while being supervised by some Camelot staff whereas the rest of the Camelot team works on Golf.

I'm not really into buying a lot of remakes by Nintendo but weren't most of them also taken over by different teams than those that originally developed them?

Nintendo must have noticed there is demand for Golden Sun as well as they must have noticed how well those kinds of RPGs are received on the Switch. So I'd be really surprised if they didn't use this opportunity for GS. I mean, with the Famicom Detective Club remakes we're even back in VN business here.

Then again though, Mother 3 hasn't come around for years either. It's like Nintendo's sending mixed signals lol
 

TempestSurge

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If Square Enix were able to put Final Fantasy's characters in Sports Mix and Hoops then I don't see why Camelot wouldn't be allowed allowed to include Golden Sun characters that Nintendo owns. The reason they might’ve not done it yet might be with Camelot not wanting to have a clash of artstyles or a desire to keep it solely Mario themed on their own accords.

Shugo Takahashi recently tweeted about Super Rush and the replies to the tweet are overwhelmingly Golden Sun. I'm happy all the response are civil and I'm hoping he's gotten to reading them. Also I posted the email Camelot uses to hear from foreign language users here if you're interested. I highly recommend we should send them something through it regarding how much we love the games and want to see them return
Yeah one is, and his post about Mario Golf is almost entirely some form of "Thank you, I hope Golden Sun is next."
Oh that's awesome to hear! I wasn't aware of the message on my timeline.
 
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FlawedAI

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I'd be up for an email campaign to Camelot timed for the upcoming Golden Sun anniversary. It's so odd to me that the Takahashi Brothers left a message to the fans about the status of the series going forward and years later we don't have a follow up. Whether they feel there's still not enough demand for it, whether Nintendo is stricter in what they can make, whether they no longer think they can make Golden Sun a worthy project up to fan's standards. Just any kind of acknowledgement to know that they've heard us even if it's to say, 'Unfortunately...'

We talk about Nintendo. But during the letter campaign, if I'm not mistaken I think it was FlawedAI FlawedAI who was actually given the email to Camelot in their letter. It's like the Spiderman meme. Place Golden Sun on one pointing at Nintendo and Camelot, who are then pointing at each other.

My fear is despite doing those letter campaigns to Nintendo and all the social media exposure with Golden Sundays, that Camelot themselves still don't know we want Golden Sun. They could be in the belief that fans are severely disappointed and done after Dark Dawn and moved on to other series. And I'm not certain if Nintendo would make Camelot aware that fans have been reaching out and sending letters in hopes of the series return.

On top of that Camelot has no Twitter, which takes out that ease of reaching them like other game devs. I think one Takahashi Brother may be on there but don't know if he's active. This is why I think it's important to do the email campaign to Camelot as it'll take away the doubt of whether they truly heard us or not. And fan demand was the last thing put forward by them before the radio silence we've come to know.
Yep, that was me. I will say though, I haven't gotten a response yet, and it's been years. Not sure if they actually read it or not.

Assumed we do get Golden Sun remakes at some point, do they have to be made by Camelot? I was thinking, if it were "only" remakes, they could be taken over by some other team while being supervised by some Camelot staff whereas the rest of the Camelot team works on Golf.

I'm not really into buying a lot of remakes by Nintendo but weren't most of them also taken over by different teams than those that originally developed them?

Nintendo must have noticed there is demand for Golden Sun as well as they must have noticed how well those kinds of RPGs are received on the Switch. So I'd be really surprised if they didn't use this opportunity for GS. I mean, with the Famicom Detective Club remakes we're even back in VN business here.

Then again though, Mother 3 hasn't come around for years either. It's like Nintendo's sending mixed signals lol
Amongst my friends, we've speculated that Grezzo (the guys behind the 3D Zelda remakes and the Link's Awakening remake) could be the ones developing Golden Sun if it exists. They listed their next project as "stylish fantasy" and I'd say Golden Sun fits that bill.
 

Kalaam

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Yep, that was me. I will say though, I haven't gotten a response yet, and it's been years. Not sure if they actually read it or not.


Amongst my friends, we've speculated that Grezzo (the guys behind the 3D Zelda remakes and the Link's Awakening remake) could be the ones developing Golden Sun if it exists. They listed their next project as "stylish fantasy" and I'd say Golden Sun fits that bill.
what would "stylish" means in this context tho' ? Also the recruitment on their website talks about an "original" work
 
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