Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[StrawHatX]

Somebody remind Nintendo they have a ton of IP’s people really want to see back.

Golden Sun, Advance Wars, Rhythm Heaven, WarioWare, Kid Icarus, F-Zero, Star Fox. Getting any more games from those series would be nice..

 

[SirCamp]

Somebody remind Nintendo they have a ton of IP’s people really want to see back.

Golden Sun, Advance Wars, Rhythm Heaven, WarioWare, Kid Icarus, F-Zero, Star Fox. Getting any more games from those series would be nice..

WarioLand, Chibi-Robo (like the original), Mysterious Murasame Castle.

 

[DrakeHavok]

WarioLand, Chibi-Robo (like the original), Mysterious Murasame Castle.

Custom Robo, Sin & Punishment...

 

[Pinguino21v]

Though on another note the first party representation for the first pass is going as expected with Arms and now Xenoblade receiving the representation that would have been expected in base had Ultimate added the normal amount of newcomers. I now hope that there's still one more first party that introduces a new franchise for Golden Sun to fill that role.

That's it. We are in a "give a second chance" DLC pack, and there's still two more slots. ARMS and XC2 are chill picks, but recent known and loved chill picks. Isaac fits the "second chance" thematic but may be kept for one of the last few slots, because he is honestly less a selling point than Pyra, and even less than Steve and Sephiroth.

I'm keeping hope for Isaac in Smash. As for a game, it may be delayed in what we were thinking, but Camelot will still continue to make game after golf. Let's keep up.

Edit
One more thing. Camelot seems to make new hints toward Golden Sun in this Golf game. After the Sol Sanctum in Tennis, the Mii character in the Golf trailer is named Mia.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GoldenSun/comments/lm9iut/camelot_you_tease/

Someone on reddit think it's a pun with Mii <--> Mia. Mia was also used in the japanese trailer. It may be as simple as that.

 

[TempestSurge]

That's it. We are in a "give a second chance" DLC pack, and there's still two more slots. ARMS and XC2 are chill picks, but recent known and loved chill picks. Isaac fits the "second chance" thematic but may be kept for one of the last few slots, because he is honestly less a selling point than Pyra, and even less than Steve and Sephiroth.

I'm keeping hope for Isaac in Smash. As for a game, it may be delayed in what we were thinking, but Camelot will still continue to make game after golf. Let's keep up.

Edit
One more thing. Camelot seems to make new hints toward Golden Sun in this Golf game. After the Sol Sanctum in Tennis, the Mii character in the Golf trailer is named Mia.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GoldenSun/comments/lm9iut/camelot_you_tease/

Someone on reddit think it's a pun with Mii <--> Mia. Mia was also used in the japanese trailer. It may be as simple as that.

If at E3 the final two slots are both revealed. There could be one more big thirty party reveal and then a smaller scale first party reveal. I still think Golden Sun is a good contender for a new franchise addition if the two slots contain a new first party franchise and doesn't go with existing reps in Mario, Zelda, Pokemon etc. Or Nintendo could go with Astral Chain for the new series slot if they want a character who has a current game in the Switch.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Somebody remind Nintendo they have a ton of IP’s people really want to see back.

Golden Sun, Advance Wars, Rhythm Heaven, WarioWare, Kid Icarus, F-Zero, Star Fox. Getting any more games from those series would be nice..

WarioLand, Chibi-Robo (like the original), Mysterious Murasame Castle.

Custom Robo, Sin & Punishment...

Donkey Kong......

We're not even mentioned amongst these forgotten franchises anymore. Because it's too obvious to overlook almost...

But damn, this Direct left a sting. So much for all the hype on the internet concerning a new Donkey Kong and Golden Sun game. Yeah they could be saved for later, sure. But that doesn't explain we saw Splatoon 3 already, a game to be released in 2022.

Nintendo is going for the safe route. They will always do. In a way, I felt I should mention Donkey Kong here to, as both DK and Golden Sun get out prioritized by Mario all the time.

Not even showcasing Zelda BotW2. Despite the project progressing smoothly they say. Yeah I will buy Skyward Sword HD, but I know that game already ...

 

[Kisae]

What I personally find it hurts is that we were told that Golf wasn't happening at all, Nate Drake said it if I remember and then the Zlippo guy comes in saying Golf is coming and that he is not a really trusted leaker or whatever and then he was just absolutely right about golf. I wasn't expecting Golden Sun to be shown yesterday but I sure was confident that golf wasn't going to happen..

Wait and see for more information about GS I guess

Edit: The only positive thing i can see is since Mario Golf is releasing in June 26, maybe at E3 they will anounce Golden Sun. Not a big trailer just a teaser for a release in future years idk.. one can dream

 

[MrPerson0]

Nate Drake said it if I remember and then the Zlippo guy comes in saying Golf is coming and that he is not a really trusted leaker or whatever and then he was just absolutely right about golf.

Back in May 2020:

ResetEra User: Mario Golf and Wave Race?

ND: Those never had a chance.

Another RE user: At making this year? Or existing?

ND: 2020.

I noticed a lot of people saying Mario Golf isn't happening likely missed/ignored the "2020" post, and homed in on the "Those never had a chance" one. Also, people were questioning about why Mario Golf wouldn't be revealed in the 35th Anniversary Direct, and even I had to point out in this thread that the direct only showed games up until March 31, 2021, and a couple users still pushed back on that.

 

[Brothanigus]

Somebody remind Nintendo they have a ton of IP’s people really want to see back.

Golden Sun, Advance Wars, Rhythm Heaven, WarioWare, Kid Icarus, F-Zero, Star Fox. Getting any more games from those series would be nice..

They don't care. Why make new games when the same old ones will sell time and time again? Why take the risk on making a new F-Zero game when you can just port a REALLY old game that'll sell like hot cakes?

 

[StrawHatX]

They don't care. Why make new games when the same old ones will sell time and time again? Why take the risk on making a new F-Zero game when you can just port a REALLY old game that'll sell like hot cakes?

I know. It’s the same reason Camelot is just sticking to Tennis and Golf.

 

[Dendros]

Yes, Everyone respond to the mario golf tweet with: 黄金の太陽はどこですか? (Where is golden sun?)

 

[ArkSPiTFirE]

As long as no-one is rude. They could be working on it now for all we know.

(I hate knowing we have to wait even longer though)

 

[Billybae10K]

Yes, Everyone respond to the mario golf tweet with: 黄金の太陽はどこですか? (Where is golden sun?)

You realize you can certainly phrase that better without spamming them with "Where is Golden Sun?" This comes across as very juvenile on the part of Golden Sun fans, and dare I say desperate. Let's have some class.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Yes, Everyone respond to the mario golf tweet with: 黄金の太陽はどこですか? (Where is golden sun?)

Are you sure this isn't something a native Japanese speaker would interpret as "I would like directions to the star made of gold"?

 

[Gioka]

What I personally find it hurts is that we were told that Golf wasn't happening at all, Nate Drake said it if I remember and then the Zlippo guy comes in saying Golf is coming and that he is not a really trusted leaker or whatever and then he was just absolutely right about golf. I wasn't expecting Golden Sun to be shown yesterday but I sure was confident that golf wasn't going to happen..

Nate also said he didn't see Golden Sun coming back in 2021. And he did mention Mario Golf wasn't coming for 2020 specifically.

However, it was still hard, I was hoping they were just oblivious.

By the way, have we gotten any word on Nazyrus I'm worried about him :s

 

[Kisae]

Nate also said he didn't see Golden Sun coming back in 2021. And he did mention Mario Golf wasn't coming for 2020 specifically.

However, it was still hard, I was hoping they were just oblivious.

By the way, have we gotten any word on Nazyrus I'm worried about him :s

That's true but yeah I wasn't expecting Golf to happen now..

And no I haven't seen him at all around here hope he's doing fine :/

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I think Golden Puns are the best way to try to lift the mood.

 

[DrakeHavok]

You realize you can certainly phrase that better without spamming them with "Where is Golden Sun?" This comes across as very juvenile on the part of Golden Sun fans, and dare I say desperate. Let's have some class.

To be fair, we ARE kinda desperate. And most of us can't write fluent Japanese so a stock phrase (preferably provided by someone who is fluent in the language) is the best most of us can do.
Although I will agree that the stock phrase could be made to sound less... demanding.

 

[chocolatejr9]

I think Golden Puns are the best way to try to lift the mood.

I'd even say this is a GOLDEN opportunity for that!

Too soon?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'd even say this is a GOLDEN opportunity for that!

Too soon?

We need a Cure for feeling down anyways.

 

[TempestSurge]

To be fair, we ARE kinda desperate. And most of us can't write fluent Japanese so a stock phrase (preferably provided by someone who is fluent in the language) is the best most of us can do.
Although I will agree that the stock phrase could be made to sound less... demanding.

I'd like to hope that in the three years since Isaac's assist, between the letter campaigns and Golden Sundays that we haven't been talking to a brick wall lol. I'd like to think that Nintendo is somewhat aware of the fan demand and that we can still expect some announcement in coming directs.

Can't imagine starting from ground zero flailing our arms for Nintendo's attention again. But if we do got something planned for the upcoming anniversary, I feel we need to be sure to also direct it at Camelot, since even if Nintendo is aware, it's up to Camelot to make the game and are the reason development has stopped in the first place.

Anyways the year has just started and it's kind of hard to think the journey of a 3 year filing of a brand new trademark going through refusals and Nintendo pushing it to get approved amounts to nothing in the end.

 

[Gioka]

I'd like to hope that in the three years since Isaac's assist, between the letter campaigns and Golden Sundays that we haven't been talking to a brick wall lol. I'd like to think that Nintendo is somewhat aware of the fan demand and that we can still expect some announcement in coming directs.

Can't imagine starting from ground zero flailing our arms for Nintendo's attention again. But if we do got something planned for the upcoming anniversary, I feel we need to be sure to also direct it at Camelot, since even if Nintendo is aware, it's up to Camelot to make the game and are the reason development has stopped in the first place.

Anyways the year has just started and it's kind of hard to think the journey of a 3 year filing of a brand new trademark going through refusals and Nintendo pushing it to get approved amounts to nothing in the end.

I partially agree with you, except that I think that Nintendo is the one who has the final say on what Camelot is developing, if they keep demanding Mario Sports, Camelot will just comply. However, I do agree that making Camelot also aware of the demand is a smart move in the end.

I also hope the trademarks (since Dark Dawn's also appeared I think last year), will amount to something, eventually

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

I'm honestly here as well.

Smash should never have opened the floodgates to third party. I get it, I love a lot of them as well, don't get me wrong, but Smash was never suppose to be a "celebration of gaming" as a whole. I hate what 3rd party characters have done to speculation and the game. I love them, it's great, but I wish - I don't know - that Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo just all jointly worked on a gigantic game together that wasn't Smash to fit the "celebration of gaming" role, so Smash could just, I don't know, keep smashing with it's Nintendo characters.

Took words stuck on my tongue for years now right out of my mouth. I've been having really difficult time adjusting on Smash's current direction from the days of Brawl-speculation, with it slowly leaning on all these 3rd Parties and generally becoming not too keen on bringing fan-favorites unless a Ballot's involved, or they happen to be built to very "special" kind of playstyle. It's been generally for making as much revenue and hype as possible, but I also admit that this boiling down to "celebration of gaming" is not going to touch anything more than most overrated/iconic at best (with some exceptions like Terry and Joker due their relatively niche standing today on gaming communities).

Not only that, but I also believe this will completely stunt any form of competition or possible big crossovers in vein of Smash (and other beloved IPs in similar category like Marvel VS Capcom) - which probably will force more companies to try pushing their series onto Smash (as we saw with Fallout Guy, I think).

I don't know how many can be continued to be added unless some less active Nintendo-IPs on the current roster have to make space for these more well-known 3rd Party IPs to the public (after all, Punch-Out!! is not as big as say, Crash Bandicoot or Rayman).

Personally, having come long way then it feels like my time with Smash-speculation's been feeling slowly a big waste of time regarding most of the overlooked Nintendo-centric first-party or 2nd parties that I rallied hard for back in those days (Toad, Dixie Kong, Starfy, Isaac, Takamaru, etc). Nowadays it feels like I should merely discuss this series in means of 3rd Party reps and other trademark Nintendo-icons more than anything, because looking back is nothing but souring me over about how my perception of this series has slowly turned an "inferior" thing of a past, according to today's Smash-fandom mocking the very idea of Nintendo-centric focus of the series in origin in comparison to what we have had today.

I'm mixed on third party characters.

I feel like having characters like Sonic and Megaman that have a history with Nintendo was great. But then when they started adding characters like Cloud I was like "Wait". Cloud's game was emblematic of Final Fantasy's move away from the Nintendo systems to Playstation, and Cloud had only appeared as a cameo character on Nintendo systems when he was revealed for SSB4's DLC.

TBH, while I understand that Cloud is a gaming icon, I really felt like it all went downhill from there. Now we're just getting all kinds of third party characters left and right while first party franchises have been left in the dust. I mean Joker and Terry are just way out there. (and I say that as a fan of Persona 5).

The roster of Super Smash Bros. just really feels like it has no focus anymore, and even the first party representations have gone out of hand (all of the f'ing FE characters is so absurd). One must wonder what would have happened if Nintendo had instead focused on repping their forgotten series (Golden Sun, Advance Wars, etc.) instead of putting in a bunch of random third parties and FE characters. Certainly it hasn't helped F-Zero any, I guess.

Really wish they'd have generally kept on Nintendo-centric (and heavily collaborated/involved before) 3rd Parties more than anything - it'd have kept the series more consistent with itself and perhaps made the current toxic tendencies of the fandom less major in comparison. Probably around - if we had to go further beyond, then and maybe .

Looking at that sum, that's not even much 3rd Parties removed, just four at most? Maybe we could have had Terry as a surprise pick, but I feel maybe this'd have helped temper some folks' expectations more with this series - and it'd have still seen relatively great success anyway. Heck, throw in Cloud as say, the final pick for FP2, or something. That'd been the good time to let the floodgates "open" for a very fine finisher. Though I can only wonder how much this might have swayed the roster to be filled with more reps from dormant IPs - but hey, perhaps there'd been more opportunities for some missing pieces from flagship franchises featured.


Looking up of course, it'd mean less "dreams come true"-scenarios for certain fellas wanting to see what used to be somewhat unlikely 3rd Parties back in the day - but at least I feel the series wouldn't be feeling like a MUGEN-sensation for today's modern gaming communities to generally wage wars together due the recurring, clashing views on who should be part of the current "Videogame Hall of Fame". I don't think Smash can touch that much more than what it has currently due how it generally is containing most high-profile or iconic series with some niche picks thrown in. It's probably succeeded in that regard in flying colors, but I'm quite sure there'll be ton of arguably beloved videogame icons still missing or outright NPC-fied (Bub & Bob and Bomberman) - and I can only wonder how long it'll take until some Nintendo-IPs currently represented are gonna be seen as "fluff" due the recurring receptions of first-party or second party additions being "chill picks".

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Nintendo isn't interested in reviving the series sadly. There's nothing the Director can do about that. He doesn't own the franchise.

It's also Mario, something they continuously make games of. But that makes sense, as it's a bigger and consistently used IP. It's one of the biggest franchises in the world, etc.

It sucks too.

I'm most disappointed in the lack of ports of GS. I don't adhere to the "they don't care" attitude anyway. If they didn't care, Golden Sun wouldn't have a ton of content in Ultimate too. They'd have denied that outright. It's clear it's not exactly that.

Anyway, here's hoping Isaac still can be playable this game. Rex is a unique situation, since he's a costume only available because of buying FP1. That outright means he's a very important paid content. He's not a regular costume. This I can see as why Nintendo would skip out on him. Due to a special circumstance. That said, I'd wait to see how Sakurai talks about costumes in the presentation before declaring a death sentence. Likewise, yes, Camelot worked on Mario Golf(something some saw coming, to be fair. Still sad, though). But considering the Director said he hopes people request GS more, it seems he's trying to convince Nintendo to greenlight it. I wouldn't spam twitter, but a petition could be useful?

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'm most disappointed in the lack of ports of GS. I don't adhere to the "they don't care" attitude anyway. If they didn't care, Golden Sun wouldn't have a ton of content in Ultimate too. They'd have denied that outright. It's clear it's not exactly that.

That’s not a good argument as Nintendo didn’t decide any of the content in the base game, only DLC. All it proves is that Nintendo doesn’t hate Golden Sun as it would be petty to deny any representation. The fact of the matter is that if Nintendo decided the base roster, would not have been playable characters.

 

[TempestSurge]

I partially agree with you, except that I think that Nintendo is the one who has the final say on what Camelot is developing, if they keep demanding Mario Sports, Camelot will just comply. However, I do agree that making Camelot also aware of the demand is a smart move in the end.

I also hope the trademarks (since Dark Dawn's also appeared I think last year), will amount to something, eventually

I'd think it'd also help if the Takahashi Brothers expressed some interest in wanting to work on Golden Sun again, in their last words they mentioned wanting to see some fan demand before the next game. I think of how Nintendo was close to being done with Fire Emblem for its worsening sales and then the developers begged for another chance and Nintendo gave that to them. I feel like in that regard Golden Sun is in a better position since Nintendo wasn't the one that stopped the development and actively wanted Camelot to make more. So in a scenario where Camelot wanted to bring Golden Sun back, can't imagine that Nintendo would instantly shoot it down.

But the Takahashi Brothers have also mentioned wanting to do right by fans and not wanting to produce a half baked game. And when you think about it, there could be no worse timeline than Golden Sun coming back only for it to get review bombed as being garbage. So if the Takahashi Brothers don't feel they're up to doing a good job with Golden Sun. It could be GG's since it seems like in the case of F Zero and Miyamoto wanting an innovative gimmick despite how long it's been, the IP will just continue to sit there.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That’s not a good argument as Nintendo didn’t decide any of the content in the base game, only DLC. All it proves is that Nintendo doesn’t hate Golden Sun as it would be petty to deny any representation. The fact of the matter is that if Nintendo decided the base roster, would not have been playable characters.

Base game or DLC doesn't matter. It's their game and they can deny the usage of any content in it if problems arise. If they actually thought it mattered, they'd have stopped Sakurai from using it. They don't because it doesn't matter to them. They have zero issues with Golden Sun getting content. They just aren't interested in making new content for it, or porting the series at this time.

King K. Rool and Dark Samus are awful examples. They're both major fan requests from the ballot Nintendo knew of. They're also from very active franchises and have zero similarities to Golden Sun. The last GS thing available was a port on Wii U, and not a very heavily advertised one like Rare Replay is, so it's not comparable to Banjo-Kazooie either. All of the playable characters had situations that GS did not have. Either from an active franchise or a much bigger fan favorite. Never mind Dark Samus was an easy echo and Ridley was already chosen. You forget that Sakurai outright doesn't own this content and gets permission to use it first. Nintendo is okay with him using content, but that's due to their permission. In fact, the only content he likely needs no permission in general for(at any point) is some of his OC's, and seeing as how... Nintendo owns them anyway, it's not that simple.

Game development is a complicated mess unless you own all the content. That applies no less to Sakurai and his team.

 

[N3ON]

I'll reiterate my stance on the whole thing, which is it's not a lack of desire to make GS. I think if you end a game on a cliffhanger, you have the desire to keep it going, or at least, failing that, some sort of obligation. Plus, after working on sports for the last ten years I'd imagine Camelot wouldn't mind making something different.

Like I said, I think it just continues to come down to Mario Sports making more sense from an investment perspective. I'm sure they're less intensive to make than an RPG (though GS remakes wouldn't be that onerous to make), and with Mario and friends front and centre, you've got a pretty safe return on that investment. Though I think right now, with the Switch's ecosystem and success the way it is, GS could and would find success.

But even still, it is more of a gamble than a safe sports game with Mario. And it will remain that way. And so it'd have to be a pretty exceptional situation that prompts GS to be touched again. Whether someone else handling tennis or golf, leaving Camelot free... or a system lasting such a duration that Camelot can provide an additional title for it (keep in mind RPGs also tend to take longer to develop). And even then it could still be sports.

With that in mind, doing anything but hoping for the best and expecting the worst seems a little idealistic. I know someone tried to disagree with me on this, but the buck ultimately stops at Nintendo wanting to make some money, and seeing Mario as the better option to make that goal realized.

 

[FlawedAI]

Alright, here's my ultimate crackpot theory that is most likely not true but is just plausible enough for me to share it:

The Switch Pro is what caused Golden Sun to be delayed and Mario Golf to be made.

Hear me out: we know Camelot self-funds their games, they have for decades. It is quite possible, as many of us here have theorized, that Camelot saw the demand for Isaac (and therefore Golden Sun) on the Smash Ballot and decided to begin work on a new Golden Sun game (remake for new game, whatever, doesn't matter in this theory). Mario Tennis Aces was Camelot's biggest success ever, it sold more than even the Wii's Mario Tennis. Therefore, they had quite a bit of money to throw around and Golden Sun was a passion project they were allowed to make thanks to the success of Mario Tennis.

So, they began work in mid-2018 or so, around the time Aces was released (and work on the game was passed to Nintendo's internal staff, as they did all post-game content) with Nintendo filing a brand new trademark to go alongside the game in August (as we know they did). Development was proceeding roughly (it would be Camelot's first HD RPG, after all) until around perhaps late 2019 or early 2020 or so, when Nintendo told Camelot about the next Switch model, a more powerful model that I'm calling the Switch Pro. Now, HD development, and especially HD RPG development is hard and very, very expensive. Camelot was probably already running low on funds and the news of needing to develop for an even more powerful system (possibly even optimizing the game for it) probably spooks the Takahashis into wanting more funds for the game. So, they halt production on Golden Sun temporarily to get more funds for the game.

What game can they make that wouldn't be super expensive but could lead to a big profit? That's right, Mario Golf. They already have the engine made for Tennis, and by collaborating with Nintendo's internal staff as well, they can get this game out the door as soon as possible. Coronavirus certainly throws a wrench into that, which is why the game was unavailable for the Mario 35th Anniversary Direct. Camelot's younger staff probably also needs help learning the ropes of RPG development, so they implement some RPG-like mechanics into Mario Golf so those staff members can learn the ropes and make Golden Sun's development go smoother.

Mario Golf is set to release in July 2021, which would be about a year and a half from when I assume it started (giving GS about a year and half of development as well if I'm correct) which makes sense, given that was about how long MTA took and that required a whole engine to be built. Even taking into account the couple-month delay the game would've taken due to COVID, the time to make still makes sense, especially if Nintendo helped like I think they did.

In conclusion, rising HD development costs forced Camelot to hold off on GS' production until they could acquire more funding and thus Mario Golf was born. They took the opportunity to implement RPG mechanics in the game to help their staff learn not only HD development, but also RPG development specifically for Golden Sun. Admittedly, this doesn't necessarily require that the Switch Pro is involved, but ultimately my theory hinges on HD development costs exceeding what Camelot budgeted for and them requiring more cash flow.

 

[Kisae]

Alright, here's my ultimate crackpot theory that is most likely not true but is just plausible enough for me to share it:

The Switch Pro is what caused Golden Sun to be delayed and Mario Golf to be made.

Hear me out: we know Camelot self-funds their games, they have for decades. It is quite possible, as many of us here have theorized, that Camelot saw the demand for Isaac (and therefore Golden Sun) on the Smash Ballot and decided to begin work on a new Golden Sun game (remake for new game, whatever, doesn't matter in this theory). Mario Tennis Aces was Camelot's biggest success ever, it sold more than even the Wii's Mario Tennis. Therefore, they had quite a bit of money to throw around and Golden Sun was a passion project they were allowed to make thanks to the success of Mario Tennis.

So, they began work in mid-2018 or so, around the time Aces was released (and work on the game was passed to Nintendo's internal staff, as they did all post-game content) with Nintendo filing a brand new trademark to go alongside the game in August (as we know they did). Development was proceeding roughly (it would be Camelot's first HD RPG, after all) until around perhaps late 2019 or early 2020 or so, when Nintendo told Camelot about the next Switch model, a more powerful model that I'm calling the Switch Pro. Now, HD development, and especially HD RPG development is hard and very, very expensive. Camelot was probably already running low on funds and the news of needing to develop for an even more powerful system (possibly even optimizing the game for it) probably spooks the Takahashis into wanting more funds for the game. So, they halt production on Golden Sun temporarily to get more funds for the game.

What game can they make that wouldn't be super expensive but could lead to a big profit? That's right, Mario Golf. They already have the engine made for Tennis, and by collaborating with Nintendo's internal staff as well, they can get this game out the door as soon as possible. Coronavirus certainly throws a wrench into that, which is why the game was unavailable for the Mario 35th Anniversary Direct. Camelot's younger staff probably also needs help learning the ropes of RPG development, so they implement some RPG-like mechanics into Mario Golf so those staff members can learn the ropes and make Golden Sun's development go smoother.

Mario Golf is set to release in July 2021, which would be about a year and a half from when I assume it started (giving GS about a year and half of development as well if I'm correct) which makes sense, given that was about how long MTA took and that required a whole engine to be built. Even taking into account the couple-month delay the game would've taken due to COVID, the time to make still makes sense, especially if Nintendo helped like I think they did.

In conclusion, rising HD development costs forced Camelot to hold off on GS' production until they could acquire more funding and thus Mario Golf was born. They took the opportunity to implement RPG mechanics in the game to help their staff learn not only HD development, but also RPG development specifically for Golden Sun. Admittedly, this doesn't necessarily require that the Switch Pro is involved, but ultimately my theory hinges on HD development costs exceeding what Camelot budgeted for and them requiring more cash flow.

Man I soooooo hope you're right or near the truth. That they halted GS development to have funds with Golf to start it again at best pace

 

[Kalaam]

It's interessting theory, we sadly can't know anything. But it would make sense with the trademark.
We didn't get any Mario Golf tm tho', we got a Mario Sports in late 2020 but that's it.

 

[N3ON]

It's interessting theory, we sadly can't know anything. But it would make sense with the trademark.
We didn't get any Mario Golf tm tho', we got a Mario Sports in late 2020 but that's it.

There were dozens of new Nintendo trademarks filed in 2018. From Golden Sun to Star Fox to Elite Beat Agents to Wii Music and Disaster Day of Crisis. People only focused on the Golden Sun one, which took it out of context and thus skewed the perspective of its significance.

It's similar to how those removed SMRPG songs spurred belief in Geno, but the full context was that songs get taken down all the time.

 

[Kalaam]

There were dozens of new Nintendo trademarks filed in 2018. From Golden Sun to Star Fox to Elite Beat Agents to Wii Music and Disaster Day of Crisis. People only focused on the Golden Sun one, which took it out of context and thus skewed the perspective of its significance.

It's similar to how those removed SMRPG songs spurred belief in Geno, but the full context was that songs get taken down all the time.

Maybe yeah, but at least we know this is a new trademark and not a renewal like most of the other ones. Which was odd.

 

[N3ON]

Maybe yeah, but at least we know this is a new trademark and not a renewal like most of the other ones. Which was odd.

The ones I listed were all new trademarks.

 

[Kalaam]

The ones I listed were all new trademarks.

Ok. Well, wait and see I guess

 

[Xenigma]

Alright, here's my ultimate crackpot theory that is most likely not true but is just plausible enough for me to share it:

The Switch Pro is what caused Golden Sun to be delayed and Mario Golf to be made.

Hear me out: we know Camelot self-funds their games, they have for decades. It is quite possible, as many of us here have theorized, that Camelot saw the demand for Isaac (and therefore Golden Sun) on the Smash Ballot and decided to begin work on a new Golden Sun game (remake for new game, whatever, doesn't matter in this theory). Mario Tennis Aces was Camelot's biggest success ever, it sold more than even the Wii's Mario Tennis. Therefore, they had quite a bit of money to throw around and Golden Sun was a passion project they were allowed to make thanks to the success of Mario Tennis.

So, they began work in mid-2018 or so, around the time Aces was released (and work on the game was passed to Nintendo's internal staff, as they did all post-game content) with Nintendo filing a brand new trademark to go alongside the game in August (as we know they did). Development was proceeding roughly (it would be Camelot's first HD RPG, after all) until around perhaps late 2019 or early 2020 or so, when Nintendo told Camelot about the next Switch model, a more powerful model that I'm calling the Switch Pro. Now, HD development, and especially HD RPG development is hard and very, very expensive. Camelot was probably already running low on funds and the news of needing to develop for an even more powerful system (possibly even optimizing the game for it) probably spooks the Takahashis into wanting more funds for the game. So, they halt production on Golden Sun temporarily to get more funds for the game.

What game can they make that wouldn't be super expensive but could lead to a big profit? That's right, Mario Golf. They already have the engine made for Tennis, and by collaborating with Nintendo's internal staff as well, they can get this game out the door as soon as possible. Coronavirus certainly throws a wrench into that, which is why the game was unavailable for the Mario 35th Anniversary Direct. Camelot's younger staff probably also needs help learning the ropes of RPG development, so they implement some RPG-like mechanics into Mario Golf so those staff members can learn the ropes and make Golden Sun's development go smoother.

Mario Golf is set to release in July 2021, which would be about a year and a half from when I assume it started (giving GS about a year and half of development as well if I'm correct) which makes sense, given that was about how long MTA took and that required a whole engine to be built. Even taking into account the couple-month delay the game would've taken due to COVID, the time to make still makes sense, especially if Nintendo helped like I think they did.

In conclusion, rising HD development costs forced Camelot to hold off on GS' production until they could acquire more funding and thus Mario Golf was born. They took the opportunity to implement RPG mechanics in the game to help their staff learn not only HD development, but also RPG development specifically for Golden Sun. Admittedly, this doesn't necessarily require that the Switch Pro is involved, but ultimately my theory hinges on HD development costs exceeding what Camelot budgeted for and them requiring more cash flow.

As far as crackpot theories go, this isn't that far out there. Not that I'm expecting any Golden Sun remake to be a visual masterpiece, but it wouldn't be a bad game to put out there as "Here's a meaty, 4K game you'll want to buy a Switch Pro for." Same for other MIA titles like Bayonetta 3, BotW 2, and Metroid Prime 4, if I'm being honest (although the latter two can be just as easily ascribed to raw development time and a project reboot, respectively). I still subscribe to the idea that Mario Golf taking three years by itself is, at minimum, very odd, and Camelot seems to be aware that fans still want Golden Sun. Unfortunately we have no hard proof of anything, which is why Mario Golf itself isn't a total surprise, but I don't think the fan outcry for Golden Sun is wasted just because we're seeing the obvious, likely corporate-mandated project coming soon. If anything, it just proves that we'll need to continue being patient if we want to see our goals realized, and of course keep showing Nintendo that we exist and we're eager to support the franchise if/when they give it to us.

 

[StrawHatX]

It is neat that in the Golf trailer the Mii character’s name is Mia. Fun little nod.

 

[Guynamednelson]

In regards to third parties, I don't hate them, but the one third party I really really really, really, REALLY wanted is already in the game, so I'm just not as interested in having a whole lot more added as certain Smash fans. I also don't believe that Smash needs to purge its third-parties, but if I had to replace one third-party with a first-party, I think Joker would be the best choice for the benefit of both the Smash and Persona 5 fanbases. Smash fans won't be as dead set on third-party hype, while Persona 5 fans won't have to deal with being seen as "cringe" from all the newcomers to their fanbase after Joker's Smash inclusion and the stuff they did on Twitter (thinking jazz music=Persona, not shutting up about wanting P5 on the Switch, etc.)

No offense to anyone here who likes Joker's Smash inclusion because they like P5, just my thought.

 

[Sentinel07]

I think someone made a post on this but I can't seem to remember where it was.

Someone made a comment of some Golden Sun-like locales in Mario Golf or something?

 

[StrawHatX]

One thing that does piss me off though is how the community as a whole gets pissed off when a first party character is revealed. Most people get upset when it’s not a third party.

I absolutely detest this mentality. I appreciate a mix of both. I thought this pass would be half first and half third and I still believe that. This is still a NINTENDO game that started off representing different Nintendo IP’s. Some people seem to forget that and want nothing but third party DLC passes.

I’m so happy Pyra/Mythra got in because I love the Xenoblade series. Even if we don’t get a GS character I’d love to see another first party character like Dixie Kong, BWD, or Porky. But it’ll probably be another Pokémon rep.

I still believe Crash is the E3 announcement and I think he’ll be the last third party rep unless we get another pass or single DLC characters.