Sunrise, Sunset - Isaac for Smash Ultimate #GoldenSunday

[Starlight Liger]

Imagine the upcoming Golden Sun game as the launch title for the Switch Pro/Advance.

 

[Kalaam]

"The Switch Advance" oh the poetic irony.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I still think the next Switch revision will have some sort of catchy title no one else has thought of, but I digress...

Anyway, even Fatman doubts that Zippo is on to anything.

If we do indeed see a new Golden Sun project come true, I imagine that it'll be a SMAS3D/3D World DX/Pikmin 3 DX/Origami King situation in that it'll take a while to come into fruition.

 

[Nazyrus]

Incoming huge post… but it's a friendly reminder about the whole Camelot release schedule and other things, which needs to be known:

Mario Tennis Aces came in June 22 2018, it even had its development restarted from what I have heard from people who were paying attention to its development. It still only took 15 months after Mario Sports Superstar released (which was mostly made by Bamco) for Mario Tennis Aces to come out afterwards. If you check Camelot's release schedule since 2010 (or in general), their games came out every 2 years for the most part, with very few cases of 1 year of difference since there were both handheld and home console games.

There is no realistic way that a Golf game by Camelot is taking longer than 29 or 30 MONTHS as of now. There's just no way it takes that long for Camelot to even announce their next game, even if they announced one 6 months ahead or something (which they have in the past).

If there is a "Sports" game in collaboration with some other company mainly making it ( like bamco did with superstars), then it doesn't justify the 2+ years that have passed already since Aces released. No way a collab game takes that long, specially when the one collab game in the past had barely any paritcipation by Camelot themselves, it was all Bamco really. Which would be most likely the case again, otherwise it would be a full made game by Camelot… and again… Camelot doesn't take themselves this long to make their own sport games.

If you want to know how many months have passed since Aces was done till January 2020 instead (basically before COVID started actually affecting Japan badly), then 18 months have passed since then, which is STILL LONGER than what it took Aces to come out after Superstars. Mario Tennis Aces had its development restarted by the way, just so you know…

As far as I know, in a year:
Early= January, February, March, April
Middle= May, June, July, August
Late= September, October, November, December

So Zippo is already dead wrong saying we are getting Golf or whatever by early 2021, when the Mario direct already gave us plans that cover till freaking Spring, which means all of early 2021. As I said before, Camelot have been known to even announce their games as far as 6 months ahead. And nothing mario sports related was announced in this Mario Direct we had not so long ago. So he is wrong, as usual. Someone already pointed out for how long he has been unreliable… Also, spare me the whole byleth thing, the only thing he did with byleth was being vague on whether or not the character for FP5 was going to be first party or a third party, he never leaked the actual name out there, nor gave a stronger a lead to actually a character form FE. So it's simply not something anyone should take credit for, at least not in the way people gave him credit for that.

***Small update here, I just got this convo screenshot sent to me from the time people asked Zippo about FP5, proving further why his way of "leaking" was so vague in the first place:

*****

Anyways, back to the main topic… See what I mean with all of these facts I've been compiling? There is NO realistic way that a golf game or sports game by Camelot has taken this long, with OR without COVID, collab or no collab. And they already have the experience and assets from Aces, meaning it would be faster if anything really. If a mario sport type of game was coming in early 2021, we would have known already by now.

As I have shared before, my source told me back in December 2019 that Golf isn't a thing in development even, so imagine considering the possibility that Camelot would fart into existence a golf game in less than 12 months + COVID… chuckles yeah, sorry but no. Nevermind the fact that there is no new trademark for a new Golf title either, proving Nintendo hasn't made any moves to protect a new brand game. Simply expecting Golf next is idiotic at this point, if you actually do your research.

The Legend of Zelda got its next anniversary huge as hell trademark registered now in 2020, and the anniversary is just a few months away already. The mario anniversary had a trademark in last year to cover for all the merch and games they were gonna bring. What do I mean by all this? That Nintendo is pretty much known for registering trademarks for new products and titles AT LEAST a year before they release them. If you do this research, you start to find more idiotic the idea of a Golf game coming next by Camelot, lol.

It's pretty damn simple, and people out there will continue to believe unreliable """insiders""" like that Zippo, or people's own uneducated guesses as product of being lazy research why there are things with actual chances unlike what they initially thought of.

I'm totally FINE with people who doubt something like GS or any game in general to not get their hopes up… but to force themselves into believing a different game that has nothing but everything against its chances of being the next game released by a company:

IF there is a sport game, it's most likely made by Bamco or Square or someone new, as they have made "Mario Sports" game in the past, for like the wii and handhelds. Not by Camelot. That's the ONLY way with the current situation we have researched for a while now, that we could be getting a mario sport game now. It definitely won't be Golf, that's for damn sure, as I have said many times, my source told me back in December 2019 that Golf wasn't even a thing in development at that point. There is no way that in the middle of COVID they can pull off a Golf game in less than 12 months, that's not how game development works.

**** yet another update, Zippo admitting he didn't really know about Byleth whatsoever:

So people really gotta stop giving him credit for something he didn't leak nor knew at all.****

 

[NessAtc.]

Worth noting that it IS possible that Camelot is merely assisting with this "Mario Sports" game, they were able to work on Tennis Aces at the same time as Sports Superstars, so they obviously didn't need to divert that much, and the likelihood of it being Namco is pretty high given Nintendo leaks this year have been exceptionally scarce, but Bandai Namco leaks are exceptionally plentiful. Captain Tsubasa and the entire new wave of Jump Force, as well as the last bit of the SoulCalibur 6 season pass, Master Roshi in DBFZ, etc. Bandai Namco leaks like a goddamn sieve, so if there's any truth to this, it's being made by Namco merely with assistance by Camelot. Which would mean, far from it deconfirming Golden Sun, it actually CONFIRMS it, since Camelot wouldn't put money into a game that immediately competes with their other upcoming one.

Of course given Zippo's shaky track record it's more likely he just looked at Markomaro's post and copied that

 

[Nazyrus]

Of course given Zippo's shaky track record it's more likely he just looked at Markomaro's post and copied that

It's so funny that the moment Sabi stopped having contact with my now NoA source back in October / November of 2019, both Sabi and Zippo stopped being reliable in general, to the point Sabi stopped leaking and Zippo hasn't been heard to be reliable for years even really. There's no such thing as coincidences huh… Oh well, that's just how things are, I don't wanna go back to such topics anyway.

 

[RetrogamerMax]

This guy deserves to be playable! Just like Geno, Crash, Sora, Lloyd, Rayman and a few more! Let’s keep the faith!

Absolutely. If I was Sakurai, I would give the Brawl fans the happy ending they deserve by also putting in Geno, Isaac, Krystal, Bomberman, Waluigi, Skull Kid, and Lloyd Irving all in so that way pretty much all the big Brawl requests would be granted.

 

[SonicLink125]

Crazy stuff here. IF somehow a Mario Sports comes early 2021, don’t give up, Adepts! GS could be mid or late 2021, but still possible to be early 2021 too. Basically, GS should be coming next year. We’re almost there! Plus, the more time that passes, the more time is being spent on making GS even better!

 

[Krosshair]

It’s also worth noting that if there was indeed a new Mario Golf game from Camelot, it’d be trademarked as Mario Golf, not Mario Sports as the recent trademark indicates.

But what do I know lmao

 

[Nazyrus]

It’s also worth noting that if there was indeed a new Mario Golf game from Camelot, it’d be trademarked as Mario Golf, not Mario Sports as the recent trademark indicates.

But what do I know lmao

Pretty much. Aces was just "Mario Tennis" iirc. Dark Dawn was just Golden Sun way back then also. And so on lol

 

[SonicLink125]

So basically, to assume the Mario Sports Trademark is just Camelot only is foolishness as Bamco was the one who made a “Mario Sports” game.
That’s not taking into account that Camelot barely had involvement in that game.

 

[Starlight Liger]

I think we're all in universal agreement that we just want new Golden Sun content already.

 

[TempestSurge]

Just saw an article talk about a new Mario game leak. I was thinking Nintendo goofed up or a retailer listing mistake, only to read on and see that it's based on Zippo's text. Man certainly brings you back to Smash speculation when youtubers give any old text leak attention even when there's no ounce of credibility. Also of course Golden Sun gets thrown under the bus lol.

It's funny cause to me Golden Sun wouldn't be the most unrealistic surprising comeback. It's Rune Factory for me cause the developers filed bankruptcy after 4's release and ceased operations. I didn't think they'd come back with a special edition of 4, let alone a whole new entry on top of that. After TWENY's sequel announcement (on top of other games that have received sequel accouncements/remakes after years of no entry) I don't get why that's still being used as a point against Golden Sun.

 

[Bane84]

I had heard about the Zippo rumor and got a bit worried. I knew I could come back to this board where my fellow Adepts would assuage my fears.

 

[Kalaam]

I had heard about the Zippo rumor and got a bit worried. I knew I could come back to this board where my fellow Adepts would assuage my fears.

Zippo is saying crap. If a Sports game is happening it isn't Golf as there is no trademark for that while we have a definitive one for Golden Sun specifically.
If Sports game there is and Camelot is involved, it'll be a collection and they'll just work on tennis/golf sections by using a small part of their team.

 

[ZelDan]

Just saw an article talk about a new Mario game leak. I was thinking Nintendo goofed up or a retailer listing mistake, only to read on and see that it's based on Zippo's text. Man certainly brings you back to Smash speculation when youtubers give any old text leak attention even when there's no ounce of credibility. Also of course Golden Sun gets thrown under the bus lol.

It's funny cause to me Golden Sun wouldn't be the most unrealistic surprising comeback. It's Rune Factory for me cause the developers filed bankruptcy after 4's release and ceased operations. I didn't think they'd come back with a special edition of 4, let alone a whole new entry on top of that. After TWENY's sequel announcement (on top of other games that have received sequel accouncements/remakes after years of no entry) I don't get why that's still being used as a point against Golden Sun.

Even if we were to ignore the trademark stuff or other stuff poiting towards a new Golden Sun, the idea of GS coming back shouldn't really be seen as impossible or that crazy. The way I see it, if Punch Out could be brought back on the Wii after being dormant for 15 years, and if Kid Icarus be brought back on the 3DS after about being dormant for a couple decades, I don't see why Golden Sun being brought back after a decade would be that ridiculous.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Even if we were to ignore the trademark stuff or other stuff poiting towards a new Golden Sun, the idea of GS coming back shouldn't really be seen as impossible or that crazy. The way I see it, if Punch Out could be brought back on the Wii after being dormant for 15 years, and if Kid Icarus be brought back on the 3DS after about being dormant for a couple decades, I don't see why Golden Sun being brought back after a decade would be that ridiculous.

I kind of wonder if it's due to worry about Isaac being able to "steal" a third-party's "slot" in FP2 if a new GS game is announced.

 

[NessAtc.]

I kind of wonder if it's due to worry about Isaac being able to "steal" a third-party's "slot" in FP2 if a new GS game is announced.

This is basically it. If Isaac is seen as likely, people think that he'd be stealing a slot from Geno or Dante or what have you.

Either that or they don't want to be wrong, so they go with the most "likely" option

 

[TempestSurge]

Even if we were to ignore the trademark stuff or other stuff poiting towards a new Golden Sun, the idea of GS coming back shouldn't really be seen as impossible or that crazy. The way I see it, if Punch Out could be brought back on the Wii after being dormant for 15 years, and if Kid Icarus be brought back on the 3DS after about being dormant for a couple decades, I don't see why Golden Sun being brought back after a decade would be that ridiculous.

People also falsely assume that Nintendo has Camelot on sole Mario duty cause it would make more money than Golden Sun so why bother? Except there was never a money issue. And why would Nintendo expect Golden Sun to compete and sell on par with their IP mascot anyways? lol.

 

[jweb23]

I kind of wonder if it's due to worry about Isaac being able to "steal" a third-party's "slot" in FP2 if a new GS game is announced.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. The vast majority of Smash dlc speculation starts with, “what Nintendo games are coming out?”

All summer we saw people claiming Paper Mario was the most likely next character. And you also had people saying a Pokémon has to be in FP2 because of the Sword and Shield dlc. Literally some of the first videos I saw in my recommended after The World Ends With You 2 got announced was if one of their characters was the next Smash character.

So when you take that info and combine it with people’s own bias towards certain characters...of course you’re gonna have people hoping various rumors aren’t true as it could “hurt” their most wanted character’s chance.

I just hope Nintendo starts announcing their first party 2021 games soon so we no longer have to rely on hearsay.

 

[FlawedAI]

I think it's funny that everyone is so focused on upcoming games for DLC discussion yet completely ignore Isaac. I'm really we get a two-for-one announcement to shut them up.

 

[jweb23]

Based on all the “coincidental” evidence, I’m 99.9% sure Golden Sun is getting a new game or remake or collection, one of those three. Now does that mean Golden Sun gets a playable character in Smash? Not really, BUT this is the most hopeful situation we’ve ever had, so...I’m very optimistic!

 

[NessAtc.]

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. The vast majority of Smash dlc speculation starts with, “what Nintendo games are coming out?”

All summer we saw people claiming Paper Mario was the most likely next character. And you also had people saying a Pokémon has to be in FP2 because of the Sword and Shield dlc. Literally some of the first videos I saw in my recommended after The World Ends With You 2 got announced was if one of their characters was the next Smash character.

So when you take that info and combine it with people’s own bias towards certain characters...of course you’re gonna have people hoping various rumors aren’t true as it could “hurt” their most wanted character’s chance.

I just hope Nintendo starts announcing their first party 2021 games soon so we no longer have to rely on hearsay.

Even now we still have people claiming Doom Eternal is in "the best position" to be tied into smash

 

[Isaac: Venus Adept]

I think it's funny that everyone is so focused on upcoming games for DLC discussion yet completely ignore Isaac. I'm really we get a two-for-one announcement to shut them up.

Well we'd have to wait for the potential Golden Sun project to be officially announced for Isaac to be up there for people in that regard. To the average person what we have in GS's favor right now is just another rumor and while it is frustrating its understandable

 

[Kalaam]

Well we'd have to wait for the potential Golden Sun project to be officially announced for Isaac to be up there for people in that regard. To the average person what we have in GS's favor right now is just another rumor and while it is frustrating its understandable

They won't have time. Isaac will be confirmed in the same direct :D

 

[amageish]

Well we'd have to wait for the potential Golden Sun project to be officially announced for Isaac to be up there for people in that regard. To the average person what we have in GS's favor right now is just another rumor and while it is frustrating its understandable

Part of me worries that, if we got a Golden Sun announcement without Smash news, people would just say "Well, they totally would have done a double-reveal! Isaac is basically deconfirmed."... Not that I think that argument would hold much water, but I definitely wouldn't be surprised to see it.

 

[Kalaam]

Part of me worries that, if we got a Golden Sun announcement without Smash news, people would just say "Well, they totally would have done a double-reveal! Isaac is basically deconfirmed."... Not that I think that argument would hold much water, but I definitely wouldn't be surprised to see it.

That would just make a future reveal sweeter^^

 

[MrPerson0]

Why do people keep on saying that Camelot hasn't been working on anything since Mario Tennis Ace's release? They have been pushing patches/DLC for the game for a whole year, so they would be free since June 2019, not June 2018.

Also, can anyone confirm if people reported on a trademark renewal for Mario Tennis before Ace's official reveal?

 

[NessAtc.]

Why do people keep on saying that Camelot hasn't been working on anything since Mario Tennis Ace's release? They have been pushing patches/DLC for the game for a whole year, so they would be free since June 2019, not June 2018.

Also, can anyone confirm if people reported on a trademark renewal for Mario Tennis before Ace's official reveal?

That wasn't Camelot putting out those patches, that was Nintendo EPD2. They took on the game's development and post release content after December 2017. Hiroyuki states that his major involvement in the project ended then in a famitsu interview from around Aces' release, paraphrased here:

Hiroyuki Takahashi: I was the project manager of the game up until December 2017.

This is further evidenced by the fact that Nintendo EPD2 fills up the credits much more than any other of their games.

Camelot isn't a big enough studio to be diverting resources into post-launch content. They HAVE to move on to the next game. Ergo, the patches only happened because EPD2 started to, or outright took over after December 2017.

As for the Mario Tennis trademark, there was a new series trademark made public and the proper Tennis Aces trademark also made public in the same time frame. Usually whenever it gets approved, it's because there is sufficient reason for legal to approve it. Obviously, when you have a new game out in the public, that's grounds to approve, but if it's not in the public, you have to prove behind closed doors that it is being used. The latter case is Golden Sun's

As clarification yet again, they don't renew trademarks, because they can't add categories without going through major headache. it's easier to just make a new one.

 

[MrPerson0]

They took on the game's development and post release content after December 2017

Guess that's how it'll be for future games made by Camelot as well. Can you also link a translation of that Aces interview?

As for the Mario Tennis trademark, there was a new series trademark made public and the proper Tennis Aces trademark also made public in the same time frame.

So in Mario Tennis' case, there wasn't any trademark renewal (or creation) until the game was revealed in 2018? Don't recall talk about any Mario Tennis trademark in 2017.

 

[NessAtc.]

Guess that's how it'll be for future games made by Camelot as well. Can you also link a translation of that Aces interview?



So in Mario Tennis' case, there wasn't any trademark renewal (or creation) until the game was revealed in 2018? Don't recall talk about any Mario Tennis trademark in 2017.

https://www.famitsu.com/news/201806/28160050.html

I believe this is the one. Note that Tennis Aces was shown off in January 2018, and the version shown off was very similar to the final version we got.

I doubt it'll be like this for all future Camelot games. My guess is that Camelot finished their time on it, and moved right along to their next project. EPD2 then worked it over more in the time leading up to release.

 

[MrPerson0]

I believe this is the one. Note that Tennis Aces was shown off in January 2018, and the version shown off was very similar to the final version we got.

Thanks for the source. Assuming there wasn't any trademark news for Aces, I guess it's possible that Mario Golf might still get an announcement in January (just like Aces did). If not, then it's likely that Camelot is working on something else.

 

[NessAtc.]

Thanks for the source. Assuming there wasn't any trademark news for Aces, I guess it's possible that Mario Golf might still get an announcement in January (just like Aces did). If not, then it's likely that Camelot is working on something else.

On the contrary, Mario Golf should have been announced by now; it's been far too long, even with covid. We've done this song and dance time and again, and each time Golf just isn't there. And yet the goalpost keeps getting shifted. At this point I'm just gonna call it; it's impossible at this point for Golf to be a thing. This is even corroborated with NateDrake and Naz's source.

What's more likely going on is that "Mario Sports" trademark earlier in the year is an upcoming Namco game, and Camelot is assisting again in providing their golf and/or tennis code to add to it. And that's the extent of their involvement. Meaning that what they're doing is something entirely separate from Mario Sports, i.e Golden Sun.

 

[FlawedAI]

Thanks for the source. Assuming there wasn't any trademark news for Aces, I guess it's possible that Mario Golf might still get an announcement in January (just like Aces did). If not, then it's likely that Camelot is working on something else.

If we just go by trademark news, then sure. The thing is, though, Golf games don't take this long to make. Camelot always reuses their engine for Golf/Tennis on a system, and the Switch would be no different. The largest gap between the release of a Golf and Tennis game on the same system is about 1.5 years, between Mario Tennis Open and Mario Golf World Tour on 3DS. Every other system has been within a year (or, in the case of the Wii U, no Golf game was released). And keep in mind that Nintendo had to market that game, so it's not like the game took exactly two years to develop. Looking at the current situation, Camelot has been silent for 2.5 and years since Mario Tennis Aces' release in June 2018 (and the Takahashis, the heads of Camelot and directors of Golden Sun, have said their work on Aces was done in December 2017, so they've been silent for 3 years) meaning Camelot isn't making a Golf game. If they were, we almost certainly would've heard about it by now. Even taking into account a few months of delay for COVID, the timeline simply doesn't add up.

Games that do take around 2+ years to develop, however, are RPGs, known for their length and difficulty to make. Even a remake of Golden Sun would have to be worked on from the ground up as none of the original assets (besides story/dialogue) are reusable for what I presume will be a 3D game (since Camelot hasn't made a 2D game since 2005). Combine this timeline with the trademark news and I find it very difficult to believe Camelot is making anything other than a new Golden Sun.

 

[SonicLink125]

For Nintendo to make a new GS Trademark, push for its approval after it got rejected at least twice, have it approved in March 2020 while also making another new GS Trademark for Dark Dawn specifically this year, and not use any of it? That’s a complete waste of money right there.

 

[Nazyrus]

And as I have said before, Golf isn't in development, I learned this in December 2019 from my source, as I have stated many times. It's impossible for a Golf game to be made in less than a year if it somehow started development during 2020. I wouldn't expect it in all in 2021 if there is one at all in development as of now. 2022 and onwards is your best bet for Golf. And as others here already remembered well, it wouldn't have taken this long, with or without COVID, by january 2020 it already has taken longer than what it took Aces to be made and release, and Aces had its development restarted at one point. Let that sink in.

 

[MrPerson0]

Mario Golf should have been announced by now

You say "even with Covid" but you don't seem to grasp how detrimental it was to their plans for this year, seeing that Nintendo likely had a whole Mario lineup planned for this year, especially in conjunction with the 2020 Olympics. For all we know, Mario Golf is ready to go as well, and they were simply planning to release it this year for their celebration before changing plans. Also, seeing that a Mario Golf was delayed once, Nintendo probably wants to guarantee a release before announcing it. If a Golden Sun game gets announced, great! Would hope that means Mario Golf arrives shortly after.

 

[NessAtc.]

You say "even with Covid" but you don't seem to grasp how detrimental it was to their plans for this year, seeing that Nintendo likely had a whole Mario lineup planned for this year, especially in conjunction with the 2020 Olympics. For all we know, Mario Golf is ready to go as well, and they were simply planning to release it this year for their celebration before changing plans. Also, seeing that a Mario Golf was delayed once, Nintendo probably wants to guarantee a release before announcing it. If a Golden Sun game gets announced, great! Would hope that means Mario Golf arrives shortly after.

You say I don't grasp it, but I think you actually heavily overestimate it. That's still two years of development without covid, and japan only locked down in february/march, with a full switch to WFH conditions a couple months later. That's more than enough time for Mario Golf to just get a confirmation, if not a full overview trailer.

 

[Nazyrus]

You say I don't grasp it, but I think you actually heavily overestimate it. That's still two years of development without covid, and japan only locked down in february/march, with a full switch to WFH conditions a couple months later. That's more than enough time for Mario Golf to just get a confirmation, if not a full overview trailer.

Exactly, just like i said a moment ago lol…

It has been about 18 or 19 months since Aces if we count it until january 2020. Longer than what it took Aces after Superstars (with development restarted included). We would have known by now. No way in hell a golf game takes longer than that, that amount of months without covid even happening yet. And again, my source said in december 2019 that golf is not in development, which completely explains no golf announcement at that point already. If golf was even a thing that started this year, we would definitely not see it in 2021, but much later, specially because of covid present at whatever time they would have decided to actually start working on a golf game, lol (and no game by camelot takes less than a year to be made, that would be just ridiculous to even consider, specially in the current situation). Let alone the fact that we know mario plans till spring 2021 and still nothing. Golf is simply not the next Camelot game, period. 2022 and onwards, at best.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I kind of wonder if it's due to worry about Isaac being able to "steal" a third-party's "slot" in FP2 if a new GS game is announced.

If the merits of a third-party character is so low that an “irrelevant character” like Isaac could make them less likely, then maybe they’re not as great a character inclusion.

Even then the biggest point that Isaac has going for him at this point is the significant disappointment people had when he was confirmed as an AT back in November 2018. That obviously was never going to affect FP1 roster, but maybe that could affect FP2 roster?