Sunrise Up Again! Isaac for Smash Ultimate DLC

DrakeHavok

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Oh my. I thought that was the September release. I can't keep it straight anymore. lol
No worries, it gets a bit confusing when they keep spacing out all the announcements like this. Nor does it help that the announcements are ordered weird in terms of release dates - Pikmin 3 Deluxe was announced first, releases October 30. Mario 3D All-Stars was announced next, releases September... I wanna say 18? I might be misremembering. And just now we got the Hyrule Warriors Age of Calamity announcement, releasing November 20. I admit I'm scratching my head at how their ordering their announcements... but then again I scratch my head at a lot of things Nintendo does.

The Hyrule Warriors announcement does make me wonder though, what if Golden Sun was popular enough for a Warriors spinoff - like, how would the mechanics of Golden Sun be incorporated into the Warriors formula.
(It also makes me wonder if Fire Emblem Warriors will get a Three Houses game in the future, but that's not really relevant to this thread)
 

Isaac: Venus Adept

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Yeah I'm feeling like Golden Sun was pushed into 2021, I don't mind that at all but I'm just dying to get to that sweet sweet confirmation already.

Also HW2 needs to give us unused Link sprite from GS: TLA or bust
 

Billybae10K

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I think we're about to be on track for the highest selling Warriors game this November. For many, the draw of a chance to finally get the world fleshed out from before The Calamity is tempting, and I know I'm grabbing it Day 1.

I'm also wondering if perhaps a Golden Sun shadow-drop reveal wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. I don't know, just because people are desperate for more Nintendo news, they might be more heightened to reveals now than they would in a major direct. Either way, I doubt we'll see GS till 2021, but here's hoping.
 

Kalaam

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Even so I would still expect golden sun to be announced sooner rather than later. If it got pushed back it would be to the very beginning of 2021, like February or March. It could be announced by the end of the month
 

amageish

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Hyrule Warriors getting a canon prequel to BotW is a really cool direction for the spin-off series to go! Definitely a game worth being excited for. Also, uh, I guess we've got 4 weeks of Nintendo shadowdrops in a row... They also announced further HW news for the 26th, a Saturday, which is an interesting day of choice, so we'll see what's going on with that.

Sadly, if GS is a 2021 game and Nintendo keeps up their current trend of not revealing things until a few months before release... We may be waiting a while for news... I think the best timeline for GS fans is if Isaac is FP7 and they therefore need to reveal GS now (even if it's not a 2020 game) to reveal him in Smash? Problem is that they likely aren't doing a general Nintendo Direct in the near feature with Zelda revealed here, so would they shadowdrop a GS announcement? Put GS inside of a Sakurai Presents? It's hard to line-up a 1-2 punch if it isn't a livestreamed reveal...
 

NessAtc.

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I'm just really exhausted at this point. It's so abundantly clear at this point that Camelot has something that isn't Mario, and should be getting revealed, and yet it isn't. I want to see it with my eyes, and I want to know why it took so long to show.
 

DrakeHavok

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Sadly, if GS is a 2021 game and Nintendo keeps up their current trend of not revealing things until a few months before release... We may be waiting a while for news... I think the best timeline for GS fans is if Isaac is FP7 and they therefore need to reveal GS now (even if it's not a 2020 game) to reveal him in Smash? Problem is that they likely aren't doing a general Nintendo Direct in the near feature with Zelda revealed here, so would they shadowdrop a GS announcement? Put GS inside of a Sakurai Presents? It's hard to line-up a 1-2 punch if it isn't a livestreamed reveal...
Assuming Isaac is indeed planned to be DLC for Smash, and that he was in turn meant to promote an intended upcoming Golden Sun game (whether a remake or a new title), at this point I would expect him to be FP8 or even 9. Perhaps at one point he would have been FP7, but if the game he was meant to promote had to be pushed back, I could see Nintendo asking the Smash devs to swap the FP lineup around so that he lines up better with the new planned release date, and as a result we'll be getting a character who was meant to come later, earlier. Again, assuming the above is true.

This could also explain why we have yet to get any info about who FP7 is - it could be that the devs shifted focus to a character originally meant to be released later, meaning that all the work put in on the initial FP7 character had to be set aside for the moment.
 

N3ON

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I'm just really exhausted at this point. It's so abundantly clear at this point that Camelot has something that isn't Mario, and should be getting revealed, and yet it isn't. I want to see it with my eyes, and I want to know why it took so long to show.
Aces came out in 2018, if it was to be revealed in 2020 that's not "so long" for the reveal. That's actually pretty quick considering it's an RPG and Camelot isn't a huge studio.

And if it got revealed in 2021 instead you'd know the likely reason. Because there's a pandemic.

Assuming Isaac is indeed planned to be DLC for Smash, and that he was in turn meant to promote an intended upcoming Golden Sun game (whether a remake or a new title), at this point I would expect him to be FP8 or even 9. Perhaps at one point he would have been FP7, but if the game he was meant to promote had to be pushed back, I could see Nintendo asking the Smash devs to swap the FP lineup around so that he lines up better with the new planned release date, and as a result we'll be getting a character who was meant to come later, earlier. Again, assuming the above is true.

This could also explain why we have yet to get any info about who FP7 is - it could be that the devs shifted focus to a character originally meant to be released later, meaning that all the work put in on the initial FP7 character had to be set aside for the moment.
Byleth was promotion for 3H and any of the other four spots in FP1 would've been better for that timing-wise than FP5.
 

SharkLord

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I'm only sticking with CP7 Isaac is because he'd be an E3-level reveal due to his popularity, but E3 isn't a thing anymore. Maybe CP8 too, because it seemed like Min Min wasn't intended to be pushed back until it became apparent that she'd need some extra time to work on her.
 

NessAtc.

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Aces came out in 2018, if it was to be revealed in 2020 that's not "so long" for the reveal. That's actually pretty quick considering it's an RPG and Camelot isn't a huge studio.

And if it got revealed in 2021 instead you'd know the likely reason. Because there's a pandemic.
It came out in 2018, sure. But Camelot was done developing it earlier than it's release. Far earlier. Like, I'm talking December 2017 earlier. It's not been "two years", it's almost been three.
 

N3ON

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It came out in 2018, sure. But Camelot was done developing it earlier than it's release. Far earlier. Like, I'm talking December 2017 earlier. It's not been "two years", it's almost been three.
And so you'll account for sitting on a game in one instance and not in another?
 

NessAtc.

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And so you'll account for sitting on a game in one instance and not in another?
they didn't sit on MTA for very long even remotely. At least, not in terms of announcing it. It was announced in January, remember?

That's what I'm meaning moreso. In a time where their release schedule is messed up and delays are happening left and right, they have one game that would be not even really affected by covid, since it's been in development for almost three years at this point. And they haven't shown it yet.

I would like to know why.
 

N3ON

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they didn't sit on MTA for very long even remotely. At least, not in terms of announcing it. It was announced in January, remember?

That's what I'm meaning moreso. In a time where their release schedule is messed up and delays are happening left and right, they have one game that would be not even really affected by covid, since it's been in development for almost three years at this point. And they haven't shown it yet.

I would like to know why.
It should be self-evident why any delays are happening this year.

It's incredibly short-sighted to release all the games you have mostly ready and then endure a blank schedule because you didn't push any nearly-completed games back to account for the games less far in development which were more inconvenienced development wise by covid.

There's two kinds of delays. Developmental delays, and delays to account for developmental delays.

Also, is your basis for believing when Aces effectively "went gold" not just that one of the Takahashi bros (and perhaps some other employees) left the project? That's not indicative of the game being done, that's indicative of some members of staff moving to pre-production on the next title. That's how turnaround works.
 

NessAtc.

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Many EPD staff members are also credited on MTA, which suggests that once Camelot was done making the game, they handed it off to EPD for extra development. As well, several Camelot staff members that worked on Ultra Smash were not credited in Aces' development.

While some devs as well as Hiroyuki Takahashi did indeed leave the project, there are also Camelot employees that are still part of the company that were never even on the project. Thus, it should be evident what exactly they were doing in the midst of that; pre-planning on the next project, as well as miscellaneous software, since Camelot does do some of that as well in order to bring in more revenue.

Pre-production doesn't start as soon as involvement with the current project ends, it starts earlier than that. Often months in advance. It only merely ramps up as more manpower is acquired, and then eventually you enter full development.
 

Xenigma

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I'd say we have two significant problems with Nintendo's reveal strategy of late:

  • For the larger Nintendo community, the lack of an E3 showcase in conjunction with randomly dropped game reveals is frustrating as we have precious little idea what is coming or how long we might be waiting.
  • For this thread very specifically, the prospect of getting a new Golden Sun release in the very near future has us unusually keen on Nintendo releases, exacerbating the frustration Nintendo's reveal strategy has caused.

As much as I dislike how Nintendo has handled their news, I think as a Golden Sun fan I do need to step back a little and recognize that, as of today, they have finally given us a reasonable holiday release slate. We now have Nintendo releases for September, October, and November, so it's possible the only "major" news left for 2020 is FP7, possibly FP8, and Pokemon's Crown Tundra. They could do any of those as their own Directs or shadow-dropped trailers if they so choose, as well as the expected continuation of Partner Showcases. Heck, even if they do have Golden Sun or another holiday game, there's no reason they couldn't keep doing what they've been doing. It sucks for us as we desperately want confirmation as to what Camelot has been up to, but unfortunately we'll just have to keep being patient.
 
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Nazyrus

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I made peace with the fact that they aren't making a Mario game next, period. That alone is a huge relief, and whatever internal reasons are there for when they want to announce it and release it, it's just a matter of time to finally see it. I'm just glad the holiday title is something i can 100% get behind as Zelda is the main series of my life since I have memory. Let's just hope for some good smash reveals as we wait for GS to finally come out of nintendo's closet, it's gonna come whenever they finally feel like showing it, we have all the things in place to back up its existence, even legally speaking, and the mario plans for a good damn while. I said not to bank on the November part, which is why I never wanted to bring it up, and always kept everyone on their toes on considering the situation. It's also not just GS, but potentially a series of titles that suffered due to the same reasons. Titles that have been just as long in development. So yeah, just take it easy, and hopefully you will enjoy this zelda hype before the upcoming anniversary of it, and hopefully that botw2 new trailer at The Game Awards (like it happened with BOTW1 in 2016 before it released in 2017).
GS will be shown in its due time 👍
 

jweb23

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We are kind of in a weird situation with what we are hoping for. I say this because if Isaac is gonna be dlc and if all this evidence we see for a new Golden Sun means a game is definitely coming...I can’t see these two things being announced at different times.

This feels like an “Isabelle” situation. The hopeful game and hopeful Smash dlc will most likely be announced one after the other. This is also why I’ve been so curious about CP7 because I think the character would have been announced at e3 and I also believe the rumored Golden Sun HD would also be announced too. So the hold up on CP7’s announcement has me more excited than usual.

However in an interview, Sakurai state’s that Nintendo decides the order of release for the dlc characters so it’s very likely certain characters are tied to certain game announcements which has thrown a lot off. And characters could have gotten switched around because of that. So for now, the only thing we can really do is be patient and hopeful. Thankfully Nintendo’s direct archive was recently updated so I don’t think we’ll be waiting for news much longer.

Also, Sakurai is pretty open about how development goes and since he hasn’t said anything about the pandemic greatly affecting development, then I think they are on schedule. So...I wouldn’t be surprised if we got CP8 announced along with CP7. Min Min releases in June so a character this month and then another in November/December makes a lot of sense.
 
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N3ON

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Many EPD staff members are also credited on MTA, which suggests that once Camelot was done making the game, they handed it off to EPD for extra development. As well, several Camelot staff members that worked on Ultra Smash were not credited in Aces' development.
EPD staff members are going to be credited on all out-of-house projects, because there are entire EPD divisions dedicated to development cooperation with partners such as Camelot.

While some devs as well as Hiroyuki Takahashi did indeed leave the project, there are also Camelot employees that are still part of the company that were never even on the project. Thus, it should be evident what exactly they were doing in the midst of that; pre-planning on the next project, as well as miscellaneous software, since Camelot does do some of that as well in order to bring in more revenue.

Pre-production doesn't start as soon as involvement with the current project ends, it starts earlier than that. Often months in advance. It only merely ramps up as more manpower is acquired, and then eventually you enter full development.
None of this is exclusive to Golden Sun. It would've been the case with Aces too, meaning the timeframe before covid possibly pushed the title into 2021 was no so aberrant as to be suspicious. Some members would've departed earlier than others from the previous title as well to commence development of Aces, and there were undoubtably staff who skipped that 3DS game to move straight to Aces development after Ultra Smash.
 

Pinguino21v

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Revealing stuff before and outside of a Direct may be a good thing for us. It may be a decision made to lighten a potential Direct. If they have a lot to announce, some games could cannibalize the attention given to others.
Take Mario 3D and Hyrule Warriors, put them into the same direct as Golden Sun and it would weaken GS announcement, since people would split their attention unto several things, focusing on the big hitters Mario and Zelda instead of Golden Sun.

Moreover, Golden Sun can take its time. I already have a big backlog, and yet I'm playing a MOBA on a daily basis instead of finishing XCDE or starting Paper Mario.
 

SharkLord

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I mean, if there's a silver lining to all of this, 2021 has a good chance of being a REALLY good year in terms of releases and announcements. It may come at the expense of this year, but still.
Yeah, the Switch seems to have lots of content on odd years and a lull for even years. 2021 would most likely be pretty packed on it's own, so all the delays would most likely make it brimming with content. At the very least, 2022 might be spared of the Even Year Curse thanks to all the delays.
 

ZelDan

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I do wonder how they'd handle Isaac's voice if he were to make it into Smash. Would they make him sound like his AT for consistency's sake? would they edit the AT to sound like playable Isaac? Would they not give a single **** and just have both sound different?

I guess they could give playable Isaac an older sounding voice and just say AT Isaac inhaled helium from a balloon or something. :drshrug:
 
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SirBillyBob

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I'd imagine they would give Isaac a new, deeper, voice considering those AT clips were recorded around 15-12 years ago and I doubt the voice actress could recreate that specific voice again. A similar thing happened to Ike's voice actor when they brought him back for FE Fates, and he sounded nothing like his original work.

Somewhat related to the AT, but I always liked the idea of replacing Isaac with Matthew. I dunno, I just think it would be neat.
 

Nazyrus

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Honestly, with NMH3 delayed, which potentially could have been a late 2020 release… the fact that grasshopper also is at tokyo like camelot, really aligns with the fact some game studios were hit bad enough to cause some extra unexpected delay to some games. Honestly it's reassuring to see, even tho unfortunate, that it's not just Camelot who potentially had an impact in their game, but also other studios who have been developing their games for some years as well.

As for the voice of Isaac hmm… considering they went pretty english in this game, i think there would be some new VA for sure, or using one of the current ones voicing some fighters in smash. Altho if it's just grunts and such without any specific quote to say, I guess they could use some VAs with reach like the Hero/Link ones. Either that or they might ask the AT VA to do a different tone of voice, I dunno
 

Guynamednelson

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I'll be satisfied with Isaac simply not sounding like a girl. :D

Seriously Japan, Isaac is a teenage boy, not a child. Why in the world did you give him a female actress....
Females usually voice young boys. Just not 17 year old ones.
 

Nazyrus

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I'm honestly fine with GS games continuing to have the funny dialogue sounds. Voice acting would barely happen tbh, if anything at some animated cutscenes if there are some of those (like in link's awakening on switch).
 

TempestSurge

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It would be a bit surprising if Golden Sun didn't have voice acting in some capacity. There will likely be tons of people experiencing Golden Sun for the first time with the new game and having a text heavy rpg with no voice acting to liven up even the cutscenes will seem like it'd breed complaints when it's just so common in modern rpgs nowadays.

There are several games that started with just text/dialogue back in the day releasing new entries with voice acting now so it'd just feel like natural progression. At least cutscenes though, please, cause I know I be getting impatient and clicking through dialogue when I have to read it myself lol
 
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Jibunzo

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Adding voice acting would likely lead to some necessary cleaning up of the script, so count me in for that. I think Octopath Traveler would be a pretty decent goal to aim for. Voices for important cutscenes and battle dialogue, but text for overworld stuff. Mind Read would be a necessary inclusion, and while Golden Sun's main script rightfully criticized, all of the various NPC dialogue is something I really enjoy, both talking and mind reading.
 

Sentinel07

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Adding voice acting would likely lead to some necessary cleaning up of the script, so count me in for that. I think Octopath Traveler would be a pretty decent goal to aim for. Voices for important cutscenes and battle dialogue, but text for overworld stuff. Mind Read would be a necessary inclusion, and while Golden Sun's main script rightfully criticized, all of the various NPC dialogue is something I really enjoy, both talking and mind reading.
That's pretty much how Persona does it's voice acting as well, so that would probably work best.

Fire Emblem: Three Houses kind of spoiled me with its full voice acting, but it had a more controlled cast.
 

True Blue Warrior

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Adding voice acting would likely lead to some necessary cleaning up of the script, so count me in for that. I think Octopath Traveler would be a pretty decent goal to aim for. Voices for important cutscenes and battle dialogue, but text for overworld stuff. Mind Read would be a necessary inclusion, and while Golden Sun's main script rightfully criticized, all of the various NPC dialogue is something I really enjoy, both talking and mind reading.
“How could anyone turn a girl as beautiful as me into a tree? Actually, I’m pretty cute for a tree.” These are actual thoughts of one of the trees in Kolima. :laugh:
 
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