Sunrise Up Again! Isaac for Smash Ultimate DLC

Joined
Sep 22, 2012
Messages
7,772
And honestly you could even make a strong argument that the first two games are really Felix’s story and Isaac just got flung into it so Felix could end up as the playable character
This is a really good point, and it makes me wonder, if both games had been released as one, as was intended, would we see Felix as the protagonist of GS instead of Isaac?

And how would it work in a hypothetical remake that fused the two into one? Would they advertise the Felix parts or keep them a secret? Would Felix's crew be on the cover or just Isaac's? Would a new generation of GS fans consider Felix to be the true protagonist of the series? If Isaac doesn't immediately get in, will that new group support him or will Felix rise as a rival to his Smash chances?
 
Joined
Jun 20, 2020
Messages
543
This is a really good point, and it makes me wonder, if both games had been released as one, as was intended, would we see Felix as the protagonist of GS instead of Isaac?

And how would it work in a hypothetical remake that fused the two into one? Would they advertise the Felix parts or keep them a secret? Would Felix's crew be on the cover or just Isaac's? Would a new generation of GS fans consider Felix to be the true protagonist of the series? If Isaac doesn't immediately get in, will that new group support him or will Felix rise as a rival to his Smash chances?
Maybe they'll get a dual protagonist role, in the vein of Octopath Traveler or Trials of Mana. I can envision a Golden Sun Remastered Collection boxart split down the middle, with Isaac's team on one side and Felix's on the other. It would be especially cool if Sakurai decides to throw us for a loop and makes Felix an Isaac Echo, or vice versa.
 
Joined
Jul 26, 2016
Messages
696
I imagine a GS1+2 Remake would be like those box art mock-ups that have it split horizontally with the original game's boxart on the top and TLA's on the bottom. I think it's still pretty clear that Isaac was always intended to be the protagonist (otherwise they wouldn't have had Felix start as an antagonist, in my opinion) and Dark Dawn only reinforces that belief. In fact, I bet in this remake you'd be allowed to switch which character was the "overworld sprite", as in the one you see walking around since there aren't any technological limitations.

I keep my fingers crossed that Sakurai gives us something extra and makes Felix an Echo (I'd be willing to pay extra) to really boost Golden Sun's presence in Smash.
 

Nawgust

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
5
This is a really good point, and it makes me wonder, if both games had been released as one, as was intended, would we see Felix as the protagonist of GS instead of Isaac?

And how would it work in a hypothetical remake that fused the two into one? Would they advertise the Felix parts or keep them a secret? Would Felix's crew be on the cover or just Isaac's? Would a new generation of GS fans consider Felix to be the true protagonist of the series? If Isaac doesn't immediately get in, will that new group support him or will Felix rise as a rival to his Smash chances?
So the original plan with Golden Sun (before it was split into two games on the GBA) was meant to have the first half focused on the protagonists (Isaac's crew) and the second half focus on the antagonists (Felix's crew). These were the Takahashis' words. They wanted to explore this concept in the Shining Force series but I guess that just got moved to a new series, hence Golden Sun. The twist and grey morality presented in the narrative sort of blurs the lines here, but from these descriptions, it's clear what the vision was for both characters.

On top of that, if Golden Sun is being presented to a new audience, they're not going to throw Felix on the cover and have new players spend the first 20 hours of the game asking "why though". The twist is just that- presenting Felix as the protagonist in marketing (including Smash) would be like having Bruce Willis rocking one of those Danny Phantom-esque ghost tails on the poster for The Sixth Sense. That's not to say this couldn't be the case in future games, but initially, I think there's reason to believe this wouldn't be conducive in marketing to a new audience.
 
Joined
Jul 26, 2016
Messages
696
To be fair, it's not like it's anything new for Felix to be the protagonist, TLA is 18 years old and it's also common for antagonists to appear on boxart. I imagine a remake would be appealing to fans mostly, who would already know about Felix. I think that's an unfortunate byproduct of this taking so long to materialize, twists like that from the original game are somewhat common knowledge, even among people who maybe haven't played the game yet but have been exposed to the community through Smash.
 

NessAtc.

Fukou Da...
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
683
Location
Vancouver Island
NNID
nintenstar98
3DS FC
4699-7691-7794
Switch FC
SW-2476-6260-3913
So the original plan with Golden Sun (before it was split into two games on the GBA) was meant to have the first half focused on the protagonists (Isaac's crew) and the second half focus on the antagonists (Felix's crew). These were the Takahashis' words. They wanted to explore this concept in the Shining Force series but I guess that just got moved to a new series, hence Golden Sun.
No, they did it in Shining, which is why they also did it in Golden Sun. Also, the decision to focus on the antagonists in the sequel wasn't before the split, it was after. We can assume that before the split, it was intended to be all one game with Isaac being the controllable protagonist, and Felix being the protagonist of the second game was just to help market it, since it's more eyecatching to play as a "villain".
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
1,208
Location
Weyard
I think the boxart would depend on whether they want to keep the whole TLA segment with Felix taking over as a secret to newcomers so I guess that would mean the boxart would be focused on the TBS cast with Masked Felix in the background or something. Otherwise if they don't really care about yeah I could see it focus on both parties
 

Nawgust

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 22, 2020
Messages
5
No, they did it in Shining, which is why they also did it in Golden Sun. Also, the decision to focus on the antagonists in the sequel wasn't before the split, it was after. We can assume that before the split, it was intended to be all one game with Isaac being the controllable protagonist, and Felix being the protagonist of the second game was just to help market it, since it's more eyecatching to play as a "villain".
Thank you for the clarification, I've never played the Shining games so my knowledge/ familiarity with them only comes up as it pertains to Golden Sun.

With that in mind, I don't think it's a safe assumption that the story was ever intended to be exclusively Isaac's. All we have to go off of is what was stated by the developers and what was presented in the final product, which is a story with multiple lead characters. My rationale for more focus on Isaac is if they retain the story presented in TBS and TLA. All bets are off if the next game ends of being a remake on a single cartridge, though- they could approach it in whatever way they see fit.
 

THE 6r

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Messages
795
Location
Fairfax,VA + Los Angeles, CA
NNID
6r$¢€£¥™©®
3DS FC
2981-7049-0538
Switch FC
SW-1195-6602-2525
'Twas the night before Min Min and all through boards
Not a creature was stirring, not even a cord.
The Switches were plugged in the wall with care
In hopes that Sakurai would soon be there.

The smashers were nestled all snug in their beds,
While visions of patch notes danced in their heads;
And bae in their nightgown, and I in my cap,
Had just settled our brains for a short summer’s nap.

When down by the TV there arose such a clatter,
I sprang from my bed to see what was the matter.
Away to my setup I flew like a flash,
Turned on the TV and started up Smash.

The moon from the window of my lovely abode,
Gave the lust of light to the Switch Dark Mode.
When, what to my wondering eyes should appear soon,
But a miniature ride, the legendary Dragoon,

With a smart young driver, so lively and spry,
I knew in this moment it must be Sakurai.
More rapid than eagles his helpers they came,
And he whistled, and shouted, and called them by name:

“Now, Mario! Now, Luigi! Now, Marth! And Robin!
On, DK! On, Diddy! On, Lucas! And Falcon!
To the top of the Switch! At the top of the date!
Dash away Dash away! Deliver the update!”

As dry tweets that before the tweetstorm fly,
When they meet with a bug, patched to the sky;
So onto the switch the entourage flew,
With the patch full of fixes, and Sakurai too.

And then, in a twinkling, I saw in the game
The coding and reworks by each little name.
As I drew in my head, and was turning around,
Onto my couch Sakurai came with a bound.

He was dressed all in textiles, from his head to his shoe,
In his pockets, a pitch for Kid Icarus II,
A bundle of songs he had arranged for his games,
And he looked like a gamer, albeit one with a name

His eyes-how they twinkled! His dimples how merry!
His cheek filled with joy, his nose a double cherry!
His droll little mouth was drawn up like a bow,
And the hair of his head was of one in the know;

The stump of a pipe he held in his hand,
Was based off the model from 3D Land;
He had a broad face and tall slender figure,
That watched with intent with each final smash trigger.

He was tall and slim, in wonderful health,
And I laughed when I saw him in spite of myself;
A wink in his eye and a twist of his head,
Soon gave me to know I had nothing to dread;

He spoke not a word, but went straight to his work,
And finished the update, then turn with a jerk,
And laying his finger aside from his nose,
And giving a nod, on the Dragoon he rose:

He sprang on the Dragoon, to his team gave a whistle,
And away they all flew like the down of a thistle.
But I heard him exclaim, ere he drove out of sight,
“Happy Smashing to all, and to all a good night.”






(I know it's already in general, but thought I should post it here too)
 
Last edited:

Beth Uriel

Ghastly Grinner
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
30,679
Location
Baragoon Tunnel
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
Isaac's core fate at the end of Golden Sun 2 is however really what cements his status as the more important character over Felix. That's the key difference. They outright had the story make it clear who wins in that department.

Not every game series bothers doing that. Many have a lot more variable characters or changes it up. Golden Sun 3 does legitimately change it up to focus properly on Matthew. Felix is basically one who never stood a chance.
 

Xenigma

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
918
Location
Charleston, SC
NNID
Xenigma
So I just checked out Min Min briefly, and had to make notes of what happened to the existing ARMS content:

- The Min Min spirit is still there, and the fighter is the same (Corrin).
- She has a new spirit simply titled "Min Min (Fighter)" from Classic Mode.
- The other four existing ARMS spirits are on Min Min's DLC board, along with some new ones.

In other words, existing content was no problem whatsoever. Not to say that helps Isaac or anyone else, but it's nice to have confirmation that FP2 DLC handles everything exactly as one would hope.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
1,208
Location
Weyard
It does mean in the case that Isaac becomes playable that we'll have a spirit board filled with the GS spirits already in the game and a few new ones such as Piers and Sheba as well as Isaac having a separate spirit for being a fighter which can rip off the other TBS promotional artwork, use a redesign from a potential remake or just use the Smash fighter render like Cloud and Pokémon Trainer do
 

Sabrewulf238

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
4,997
Location
Ireland
I was just thinking while looking at the spirit boards for DLC, if Isaac gets in what background do you think they'll use for the Golden Sun spirit board?

I guess it's hard to say in one sense, I imagine if a remake of Golden Sun has been announced by then we'll probably get some artwork from that. Do you think they'd use artwork from Dark Dawn even though Isaac was the fighter?

On another note I downloaded Min Min, personally I like how she plays though she's a bit different from what we have in the game already. I was worried I wouldn't really mesh with her playstyle but it's been fun so far.
 
Last edited:

MeatOfJustice

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
404
Location
Chile
It does mean in the case that Isaac becomes playable that we'll have a spirit board filled with the GS spirits already in the game and a few new ones such as Piers and Sheba as well as Isaac having a separate spirit for being a fighter which can rip off the other TBS promotional artwork, use a redesign from a potential remake or just use the Smash fighter render like Cloud and Pokémon Trainer do
Yes. I imagine you are asking to make sure, but yes, it does mean that.

But I'm surprised Min Min's original Spirit fight keeps Corrin even if you have her.
I was just thinking while looking at the spirit boards for DLC, if Isaac gets in what background do you think they'll use for the Golden Sun spirit board?

I guess it's hard to say in one sense, I imagine if a remake of Golden Sun has been announced by then we'll probably get some artwork from that. Do you think they'd use artwork from Dark Dawn even though Isaac was the fighter?

On another note I downloaded Min Min, personally I like how she plays though she's a bit different from what we have in the game already. I was worried I wouldn't really mesh with her playstyle but it's been fun so far.
I think the most likely is a map of Weyard, followed by one of the Lighthouses.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 13, 2014
Messages
1,291
NNID
SonicLink125

You know what Isaac and Min Min have in common? They have yellow hair and based on food.
Min Min - Noodles
Isaac - Banana

The fact that Min Min uses a different spirit and not replace the old one again shows that nothing holds Sakurai back from promoting characters.
 

NessAtc.

Fukou Da...
Joined
Apr 9, 2014
Messages
683
Location
Vancouver Island
NNID
nintenstar98
3DS FC
4699-7691-7794
Switch FC
SW-2476-6260-3913
1593531405385.png


GOLDEN SUN: A WORLD REIGNITED RELEASES TODAY. It'll be on the OCRemix website, or you'll be able to find it at https://reignited.ocremix.org/ .

We're in the home stretch, so just wait a few more hours and we'll have the listening pleasure of one and a half years of work.
 
Joined
Dec 31, 2015
Messages
1,208
Location
Weyard
Made my own mockups based on the direction they could take his fighter spirit and how the icon for the Golden Sun spirit board could look. At the very least Min Min shows us that these two things shouldn't even be close to an issue for us
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 15, 2018
Messages
542
Switch FC
SW-4311-5852-0528

Nazyrus

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
2,155
This album is really something. I'm not sure I'm into some versions (like isaac's battle theme) but some other tracks are really nice and work well in the style they made them.
 

Pinguino21v

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 5, 2018
Messages
413
Location
France
I was just thinking while looking at the spirit boards for DLC, if Isaac gets in what background do you think they'll use for the Golden Sun spirit board?
The background during the intro when you put on The Lost Age. With the seagull.


Made my own mockups based on the direction they could take his fighter spirit and how the icon for the Golden Sun spirit board could look. At the very least Min Min shows us that these two things shouldn't even be close to an issue for us
That is impressive the number of people that are still mentioning the dumb rule of "AT disconfirm". Even after Min Min. Even if some are lucid enough to say it's a fan rule. It's annoying.
 

Guynamednelson

Smash Master
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
4,268
NNID
Nelson340
3DS FC
2105-8742-2099
Switch FC
SW 4265 6024 9719
That is impressive the number of people that are still mentioning the dumb rule of "AT disconfirm". Even after Min Min. Even if some are lucid enough to say it's a fan rule. It's annoying.
We even have a user who said gatekeeping is awful unless you're gatekeeping ATs, because you'd be paying for someone that's already in the game.

He'll refuse to listen to anything explaining how that's like saying movie theaters are scum because why pay for a movie when the trailer is free?
 

Sabrewulf238

Smash Master
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
4,997
Location
Ireland
That is impressive the number of people that are still mentioning the dumb rule of "AT disconfirm". Even after Min Min. Even if some are lucid enough to say it's a fan rule. It's annoying.
Honestly I just hear ocean sounds now whenever I see people saying AT disconfirm.

Besides at this point there's no real reason to argue with them. If Isaac is in this fighter pass, then he's in and getting in a squabble over it with people on the internet won't change that.

We even have a user who said gatekeeping is awful unless you're gatekeeping ATs, because you'd be paying for someone that's already in the game.

He'll refuse to listen to anything explaining how that's like saying movie theaters are scum because why pay for a movie when the trailer is free?
I find this mindset very strange. I haven't played Overwatch, but I do know it's a game that's getting frequently updated and changed. I wonder if Overwatch still has everything available now that was in the game at launch? (I don't know but I think I could pretty safely say the answer to that is no)

Not to mention if the smash teams approach is to just add a new Min Min spirit on top of the old one, there's no reason to believe the Isaac assist trophy would be removed anyway.
 
Last edited:

Guynamednelson

Smash Master
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
4,268
NNID
Nelson340
3DS FC
2105-8742-2099
Switch FC
SW 4265 6024 9719
Not to mention if the smash teams approach is to just add a new Min Min spirit on top of the old one, there's no reason to believe the Isaac assist trophy would be removed anyway.
I'm surprised they left that spirit battle completely untouched when battles changing with DLC was brought up in her Direct. First we have Robin being able to summon Chrom against Chrom and Mii Chrom, now we have Min Min vs. Corrin pretending to be her.
 

Nazyrus

Smash Champion
Joined
Aug 10, 2018
Messages
2,155
I'm surprised they left that spirit battle completely untouched when battles changing with DLC was brought up in her Direct. First we have Robin being able to summon Chrom against Chrom and Mii Chrom, now we have Min Min vs. Corrin pretending to be her.
From what I've heard, it seems like the untouched ones are WoL fights, but the non WoL fights do change. I would have to verify tho, I know I heard it in a chat just recently…
 
Last edited:

Beth Uriel

Ghastly Grinner
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
30,679
Location
Baragoon Tunnel
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
So I just checked out Min Min briefly, and had to make notes of what happened to the existing ARMS content:

- The Min Min spirit is still there, and the fighter is the same (Corrin).
- She has a new spirit simply titled "Min Min (Fighter)" from Classic Mode.
- The other four existing ARMS spirits are on Min Min's DLC board, along with some new ones.

In other words, existing content was no problem whatsoever. Not to say that helps Isaac or anyone else, but it's nice to have confirmation that FP2 DLC handles everything exactly as one would hope.
Actually, some speculated her regular Spirit would be changed to Min Min(ARMS), but otherwise, pretty much. A lot expected some kind of bigger changes than we got, but it's proven to be "wow, that took like nothing to fix". Also, it makes sense for the regular Min Min spirit to not need a change. They're only changed to make the names impossible to confuse. Min Min and Min Min(Fighter) are not confusing. The two versions of Hilda from Fire Emblem and The Legend of Zelda are however confusing. ...Or was that a different spirit set. Regardless.
 

clearandsweet

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
219
Here's the Arlo video:


Man, this, the remix album AND Ismail tweeting at NOA in the same day? That's close to a million impressions mentioning Golden Sun by name and in the context of celebrating/requesting it back. Probably the biggest day this franchise has had in a minute and a half in the West.

Obviously, this changes nothing with Camelot. If anything, if a Golden Sun 4/remake trailer dropped tomorrow, it would be due more to the community's response back in 2018 of course. But what it DOES change is people's perceptions if it happens.

If Isaac is announced for Smash or if a new game does get announced, then people who are tangential to the community will be aware, and possibly have a positive opinion of it. Just think of all the 15-year olds who are watching the Arlo video right now and forming their opinions and coloring how they'll react in the future if and when the revival comes.
 
Last edited:

Beth Uriel

Ghastly Grinner
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
30,679
Location
Baragoon Tunnel
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
Made it to Madra. I'm guessing Alex won't actually be joining my team and I'll be getting a different water adept? I've already seen a lot of puddles that lead somewhere if you freeze them lol.
I won't spoil any characters, but you clearly will be freezing puddles through the game. Though I'm guessing you had an idea that a freeze spell could exist thanks to the game's massive puzzle nature, heh.
 

Kisae

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Sep 14, 2014
Messages
169
NNID
Darkkisae
Here's the Arlo video:


Man, this, the remix album AND Ismail tweeting at NOA in the same day? That's close to a million impressions mentioning Golden Sun by name and in the context of celebrating/requesting it back. Probably the biggest day this franchise has had in a minute and a half in the West.

Obviously, this changes nothing with Camelot. If anything, if a Golden Sun 4/remake trailer dropped tomorrow, it would be due more to the community's response back in 2018 of course. But what it DOES change is people's perceptions if it happens.

If Isaac is announced for Smash or if a new game does get announced, then people who are tangential to the community will be aware, and possibly have a positive opinion of it. Just think of all the 15-year olds who are watching the Arlo video right now and forming their opinions and coloring how they'll react in the future if and when the revival comes.

Thanks for sharing the video. It's very interesting and more important he is absolutely right. Switch park is huuuuuge. Bringing those series now okay may be risky but the demand from fans is here. I'm sure most of those series would sell incredibly good releasing on switch !

Btw sorry for my ignorance but who is Ismail?
 

Guynamednelson

Smash Master
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2014
Messages
4,268
NNID
Nelson340
3DS FC
2105-8742-2099
Switch FC
SW 4265 6024 9719
I find this mindset very strange. I haven't played Overwatch, but I do know it's a game that's getting frequently updated and changed. I wonder if Overwatch still has everything available now that was in the game at launch? (I don't know but I think I could pretty safely say the answer to that is no)
It's not Overwatch, but when Rockstar made the casino in GTAV accessible, they completely redid the building's exterior. There's also certain car variations that don't show up in the enhanced version, as well as plenty of online missions that've been thrown away.
 
Last edited:

FlawedAI

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 26, 2016
Messages
696
Alex was probably intended to join your party at some point, but it was scrapped. Would have been neat to have him as a guest member.
According to the Cutting Room Floor, there's a portrait of Alex that is used as a dummy portrait for the party members of TLA in TBS. It can be reasonably assumed that Alex was intended to be the Mercury Adept in the party but was replaced later on.
 
Top Bottom