Sunrise Up Again! Isaac for Smash Ultimate DLC

Sabrewulf238

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I take all rumors with a grain of salt, but assuming these insiders are correct about a new Golden Sun being developed then this is literally the best chance any Golden Sun character has at getting in.
I've seen this mentioned a few times, where is this coming from? Are these insiders in any way reputable? Do they have names?
 

jweb23

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I’m not sure where the rumors are coming from. I just saw a few people talking about it so I gave my thoughts on if they were true.

There is the strange coincidence of the early trademark renewal in 2018, but that’s the only possible evidence I know of.
 

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I’m not sure where the rumors are coming from. I just saw a few people talking about it so I gave my thoughts on if they were true.

There is the strange coincidence of the early trademark renewal in 2018, but that’s the only possible evidence I know of.
Man how many pages of this thread have been dedicated to a speculated new GS? We've heard about this game so more times then some of the newer games on the market and we can't even confirm its existence! With each passing direct it hurts even more with knowledge of these rumors then not knowing about it at all. I just want them actually go public with the damn thing and be over with the speculation.
 
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I’m not sure where the rumors are coming from. I just saw a few people talking about it so I gave my thoughts on if they were true.

There is the strange coincidence of the early trademark renewal in 2018, but that’s the only possible evidence I know of.
I’m not the expert here on trademarks, but I’ll do my best to explain what’s been going on.
From the research we’ve done for the past (almost) 2 years now, this GS trademark is NOT a renewal. It’s a BRAND NEW trademark. Nintendo has been pushing this for its approval and it finally got approved all over the world in March of this year. Dark Dawn’s trademark renewal also proves that it’s a new one and we learned that the original GS trademark is up for renewal next year.
Plus, this new trademark has places approved that aren’t in the old ones. It even got denied a few times to where Nintendo had to push hard to get it approved. Same thing happened to the Zelda:BotW trademark too.
The Takahashi Bros. left Mario Tennis Aces production in December 2017 to work on their next project. Camelot has been able to constantly release new games every year or other year but this time, aside from Aces updates, they’ve been strangely quiet. If they were working on a Mario Golf, we would have heard about it by now. The Mini Direct in March would have been the perfect time to do so.
Speaking of Mario Golf, a credible insider was asked about Mario Golf and said it’s not happening.
04A511A9-E8A0-4712-BB67-AA370C7D1F27.png


There’s a lot more stuff, but I’m tired atm. Hope this helps for now.
 

jweb23

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Man how many pages of this thread have been dedicated to a speculated new GS? We've heard about this game so more times then some of the newer games on the market and we can't even confirm its existence! With each passing direct it hurts even more with knowledge of these rumors then not knowing about it at all. I just want them actually go public with the damn thing and be over with the speculation.
I feel you on that. I think it’s been a year since I’ve been on this thread and I saw a few others talking about insiders saying a game is coming. I just hope it’s legit.
 

Nazyrus

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I feel you on that. I think it’s been a year since I’ve been on this thread and I saw a few others talking about insiders saying a game is coming. I just hope it’s legit.
I've been here only since 2018 (when ultimate was announced), and to be honest I don't remember hearing any insiders talk about it, not even my NoA source. All I remember is the amount of teasing within the game itself and then the dumb grinch leak… We never had the things we can look at now, such as a new trademark separate from the existing active old ones, Camelot taking their longest to even announce a game ever, and Nate saying that Golf is not even happening. And I personally doubt we would get 2 tennis games in a row, it's not something that seems to be a thing when looking at the list of released games on Camelot's wikipedia page. There's too many things now that can't be ignored, that I have never seen align so much in the past, like… ever. Altho I will admit I'm kinda of fresh of a GS fan so maybe I might not know much from many years ago…
And bringing this up again, I think it's funny that we also now have the type of console that the creator of GS said he would like to see if he was to make a new game. He came with the Switch idea 10 years before the Switch even came out haha!
20191023_082757.jpg
 
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StrawHatX

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So do you guys think this thread will blow up in activity again like it use to during base game if Geno makes it in? I heard a good chunk of the Geno supporters saying they are going to come here after Geno get's in.
I think the biggest thing for this thread would be if a new Golden Sun game or remaster for the Switch is announced. That would get everyone talking about the series again.
 

Nazyrus

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So do you guys think this thread will blow up in activity again like it use to during base game if Geno makes it in? I heard a good chunk of the Geno supporters saying they are going to come here after Geno get's in.
That's pretty wholesome, but we can't tell who will get in first lol, all we can hope is that both get in in whatever order. Min Min certainly eliminated any remaining doubts from non believers of upgrades :)
 
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That's pretty wholesome, but we can't tell who will get in first lol, all we can hope is that both get in in whatever order. Min Min certainly eliminated any remaining doubts from non believers of upgrades :)
Hopefully we get both of them in this game. I still hope we can take that sceenshot of Ridley, K. Rool, Banjo & Kazooie, Geno, and Isaac all fighting together in the same match.
 
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Sabrewulf238

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So do you guys think this thread will blow up in activity again like it use to during base game if Geno makes it in? I heard a good chunk of the Geno supporters saying they are going to come here after Geno get's in.
Maybe a little?

I feel like what would really increase activity around here would be the announcement of a Golden Sun 1/2 remake and/or a new Golden Sun. I also think if an assist trophy got promoted (like Waluigi) it would increase activity here.
 
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clearandsweet

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Geno would be somewhat better for us than a random other pick as it would show that Sakurai is back on the "this one is for the fans" mindset like when K. Rool and Ridley were announced, and this time with 4, maybe even more, characters left to go. First party-picks from forgotten/dead franchises would also be pretty great, indicating a possibly all first-party pass or a desire for franchise revivals via Smash.

As Sabrewulf238 Sabrewulf238 stated, an assist trophy promotion would be the second-best option after GS4/remake on Switch.

Third best would be no announcements of Smash characters/events until we see Camelot's current project announced.

Frankly, I think an Isaac announcement would be better for Geno fans than vice-versa. I'll stop short of fostering any undue solidarity with the Geno fans. I'm sure SMRPG is great, and I'd be happy to see a long-requested inclusion just like I was for K. Rool and Banjo, but I never played that game, and at the end of the day, there's limited space on the roster.
 
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New Golden Sun game getting announced before Isaac’s reveal will make this thread skyrocket! Probably more so than what it had back during the week before the November 2018 Smash Direct.

Honestly, I’d be far more surprised if we DIDN’T get Golden Sun back this year (or next year depending on the circumstances of the world). The wait will be worth it!
 

amageish

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So Im thinking that if they put someone from GS in, it might not be Isaac. Look at spring man and min min. How would you all feel about Felix? Personally I don't care who the GS rep is as long as they use djinn and plenty of psynergy.
I get the inclination, but unless something really out-there is going on (ex/ GS4 is in development starring Issac's grandchild or something), I don't see any reason to not pick Isaac. Min Min had popularity, both within the development teams and within the ARMS fanbase, on her side. She also had plenty of unique mechanics that translate into Smash easily - I don't think it's a coincidence that Sakurai mentioned Min Min and Ninjara, two characters whose martial arts abilities would allow for close-range attacks far more naturally then the rest of the cast, as two characters he was especially thinking of...

Isaac is the face of Golden Sun. He's had the fan demand for years already. I don't see any real reason to go with Felix or Matthew over him. Not every JRPG is represented by the protagonist of the first game, but the few exceptions are ones where the later games wildly outperformed the originals in sales, popularity, and generic iconicness (ex/ FF7 over FF1, DQIII/IV/VIII/XI over DQ1, P5 over P1/SMT1/MT1 depending on how you count things, etc.). That didn't happen with Lost Age or Dark Dawn...
 
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So Im thinking that if they put someone from GS in, it might not be Isaac. Look at spring man and min min. How would you all feel about Felix? Personally I don't care who the GS rep is as long as they use djinn and plenty of psynergy.
I dunno, Isaac and GS would be buoyed by fan support mostly (even if there is a new game, it'd still have been spurred by Isaac's Smash support, methinks), so I wouldn't expect anyone over Isaac. But, then again, neither did I expect Min Min over Spring Man and here we are. I guess Felix over Isaac would make a similar amount of sense, what with Felix being cooler and less generic to the uninitiated.

As for how I'd feel? Confused, mostly, and it would feel pretty wrong, but Felix is indeed a great character and I already plan to move to supporting him if Isaac gets in, so I guess I would like the inclusion anyway.
 

ZelDan

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I like Felix and TLA is my favorite of the GS games. Also Felix getting in would still satisfy the "game/character from my childhood itch" like Isaac would. So Felix would be neat from these perspectives. It'd still be awkward for sure though, considering I've been putting my weight and support behind Isaac for over a decade now. It'd be a victory but a somewhat hollow, weird feeling one.
 
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So Im thinking that if they put someone from GS in, it might not be Isaac. Look at spring man and min min. How would you all feel about Felix? Personally I don't care who the GS rep is as long as they use djinn and plenty of psynergy.
I think Min Min's popularity overall also helped in that decision to make her playable vs if Yabuki would have mentioned a more rare favorite. Then Sakurai would have likely stuck with the characters he had in mind already. It reminds me of Cloud's inclusion in 4 when Nomura was like, 'Are you sure you're okay with Cloud?'

Then Sakurai talks about how Terra and Bartz are also protagonists he considered but felt people wouldn't really know them and that most requests for a FF character from fans mentioned Cloud and thus wanted to answer that fan demand. I think he'd view Isaac in a similar way. I also don't think he'd necessarily sit down with the Takahashi brothers to discuss with them who to choose in a small roster of lead characters compared to when he does it to series with multiple protagonists like FF, Fire Emblem and recently ARMS.

Since Felix is not as well known among the more casual Smash community. It would put a bit of a damper on the hype for me if most of the reactions are people going, 'Huh? Who's this guy?!'
 
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Megadoomer

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Oh the code names? Yeah that would be fun, but how often do we hear about them before hand?
Hero was the only case for Ultimate - Nintendo's been a lot more careful about removing all traces of a character since then in case they're found through datamining. (not sure if this was just a rhetorical question - it's hard to tell)
 
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Guynamednelson

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Good question. We got them for "Brave" (Turns out to be the Heroes), and we also got spoiled for Ryu and Roy, but some think Nintendo might have clammed up on that.
The last three Smash 4 DLC fighters had placeholder Ike/ZSS data in earlier updates, but dataminers never spoiled that.
 

jweb23

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So Im thinking that if they put someone from GS in, it might not be Isaac. Look at spring man and min min. How would you all feel about Felix? Personally I don't care who the GS rep is as long as they use djinn and plenty of psynergy.
I think that all depends on what games Camelot is currently working on, assuming the game is not a new IP but Golden Sun related. Camelot has set a precedent with each Golden Sun game to switch the lead protagonist. So if it is a remaster of the first two games as one...then I have a hard time believing Isaac won’t be the character chosen. But let’s say the game is GS4, or a spin-off, or even a soft reboot...well then the character chosen could definitely end up as someone else. And honestly you could even make a strong argument that the first two games are really Felix’s story and Isaac just got flung into it so Felix could end up as the playable character.

Personally considering where we are at right now, it would be very difficult for me to be disappointed with any GS character becoming playable. As long as it’s not Kraden lol.
 

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Hero was the only case for Ultimate - Nintendo's been a lot more careful about removing all traces of a character since then in case they're found through datamining. (not sure if this was just a rhetorical question - it's hard to tell)
Yeah, more or less. Nintendo's clamped down on internal leaks basically ever since that. The only thing they aren't directly on top of are the various glitches, and that's because it doesn't always correlate to a new character, and if it does it's never obvious who
 

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Felix and Alex are my favorite GS characters so I’d personally rather have Felix than Isaac to be the playable character. With that said though Isaac is the face of the series and I couldn’t see it being anyone else but him.
You never know - Spring Man was the face of ARMS, and we got Min Min instead. I'm not sure how Golden Sun characters stack up against each other in terms of popularity within the series (I know that Felix was the main focus of the sequel, though I don't know if that was the intent from the beginning or if it happened because he was popular - I've only played a bit of Golden Sun 1), but the door's been opened, at least.
 

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You never know - Spring Man was the face of ARMS, and we got Min Min instead. I'm not sure how Golden Sun characters stack up against each other in terms of popularity within the series (I know that Felix was the main focus of the sequel, though I don't know if that was the intent from the beginning or if it happened because he was popular - I've only played a bit of Golden Sun 1), but the door's been opened, at least.
It would've probably been the intent. Golden Sun 1 and 2 were meant to be one game with two core stories.

ARMS also is an oddball because it has multiple protagonists(and no core one at any point. A backstory for Max Brass is the closest to an official canon protagonist at best). Albeit, so does Golden Sun, but the story for 1 and 2 still makes Isaac out to be more important than Felix despite his half being "shorter" overall. Golden Sun 2 is a very big game compared to 1. They're still both pretty large.

It's somewhat closer to how Fire Emblem changes protagonists, but since there's no massive timeline skips, Isaac plays a role in every single game. His role lessens starting in 2 and is pretty small in 3.
 

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The main problem with the whole "we got Min Min instead" is that the Takahashis and Yabuki clearly see GS and ARMS differently from each other. While Yabuki believes all of the ARMS cast are equal in story and priority, Isaac is pretty obviously who Camelot envisions as the most important character in the entire series, save for Alex or the Wise One. He's the main character of the first game, a primary driving force and later co-protagonist in the second game, and his son is the protagonist of the third game. His whereabouts after Dark Dawn are also likely to set the stage for Golden Sun 4.
Not to mention that he was given the Mars Star along with a small portion of the Golden Sun, which Alex, with the rest of it, is vying for.

This is also actively disregarding that Isaac is the one we voted for on the ballot, not Felix or Matthew, which would almost certainly be a factor for his inclusion.
 
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Yeah, there's no way Felix would get in over Isaac. Isaac was the main protagonist of the first game, a party member in the second, and one of only a couple of the original party members to show up in Dark Dawn (I know Garet did as well, was there anyone else that appeared physically?). Isaac quite simply is the protagonist of Golden Sun, there is no "oh everyone is the protagonist" thing going on like with ARMS. If Felix was more important, Matthew would've been Felix's son and not Isaac's.

Side note: I am really tired of people asking "ok Golden Sun fans, would you be ok with Felix/Matthew/GS4 protag over Isaac?" In the past month I think it's been asked like three times, and the answer, every time, is "we'd be happy it's Golden Sun, but it would be really weird for it not to be Isaac." It would be like adding Luigi before Mario: yes, they're both super important, but one is clearly the face/main protagonist and it would be strange for him not to be the first addition.
 
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Crazy to believe that it’s been 18 years since Golden Sun The Lost Age was released (In Japan). Here’s some pics of Mii Felix with Mii Isaac. lol
I technically never properly owned the first game as it was lended to me by a good friend and I eventually became the new owner of it. The Lost Age is arguably my very first game I ever bought with my own hard earned money around 2003-2004. It was worth every penny! My favorite of the three games. So proud to be a fan of this wonderful series. Can’t wait for its triumphant return! The Golden Sun will rise again!
 
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Guynamednelson

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Side note: I am really tired of people asking "ok Golden Sun fans, would you be ok with Felix/Matthew/GS4 protag over Isaac?" In the past month I think it's been asked like three times, and the answer, every time, is "we'd be happy it's Golden Sun, but it would be really weird for it not to be Isaac." It would be like adding Luigi before Mario: yes, they're both super important, but one is clearly the face/main protagonist and it would be strange for him not to be the first addition.
Besides, making a moveset that only works for Felix/Matthew, like how Min Min only has a moveset that fits her and couldn't have been Spring Man's ticket to playability, would be a huge challenge. No matter what you do, you've got a moveset that will fit Isaac as well and might as well make him playable too while you're at it.
 

Sabrewulf238

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Besides, making a moveset that only works for Felix/Matthew, like how Min Min only has a moveset that fits her and couldn't have been Spring Man's ticket to playability, would be a huge challenge. No matter what you do, you've got a moveset that will fit Isaac as well and might as well make him playable too while you're at it.
This is the main reason why I don't buy the idea of Felix or Matthew getting in. In terms of ability they're both similar enough to Isaac that I just don't see how it would make sense to put them in when you could please even more people and just add Isaac.

I can only really see Matthew being an alt for Isaac and Felix being an echo fighter. If it even went that far. Personally I think we'll be more than lucky just to get playable Isaac, and I would say that not just for this fighter pass but also a future Smash game. Unless Golden Sun became a lot more popular in the meantime.
 
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Besides, making a moveset that only works for Felix/Matthew, like how Min Min only has a moveset that fits her and couldn't have been Spring Man's ticket to playability, would be a huge challenge. No matter what you do, you've got a moveset that will fit Isaac as well and might as well make him playable too while you're at it.
Exactly, because all three are Venus Adepts with similar builds/fighting styles, you could easily turn an Isaac moveset into a Felix one and vice versa. In fact, I hope we get a Felix Echo down the line, maybe with the classic slower but slightly stronger difference as well as a different Final Smash (Judgement or Isaac, Meggido for Felix?) and maybe slightly different animations. It works too well for it not to be a possibility for a future game.
 

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I am trying to convince my friends that something in the shadows is moving for a possible return of Golden Sun but they are tough to make me believe xDD Even if I explained to them the trademark thing, the silence from Camelot and all stuff like that.

But yeah wait and see I hope that soon we will get info about our Golden series.

What do you think a Spirit Battle against the wise one would like?
 

Nawgust

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I get the inclination, but unless something really out-there is going on (ex/ GS4 is in development starring Issac's grandchild or something), I don't see any reason to not pick Isaac. Min Min had popularity, both within the development teams and within the ARMS fanbase, on her side. She also had plenty of unique mechanics that translate into Smash easily - I don't think it's a coincidence that Sakurai mentioned Min Min and Ninjara, two characters whose martial arts abilities would allow for close-range attacks far more naturally then the rest of the cast, as two characters he was especially thinking of...
I think you hit on something really important here, that makes Isaac essentially a lock for the chosen Golden Sun rep. The "face of the franchise" point only goes so far, as we saw with Spring Man (and arguably Villager- Tom Nook was the "obvious" Animal Crossing rep in the old days of speculation).

Sakurai was looking at Ninjara/ Min Min because of their physical traits as they could work within Smash. I actually thought Twintelle was going to be the ARMS fighter since she actually had, like, normal arms to carry items and the Kirby hat writes itself. I'll take that L.

Isaac has no such restrictions. Anything he can physically do, Felix & Matthew have the same capabilities. The only thing that could *potentially* get in his way of being the chosen Golden Sun rep is if being an AT presents some sort of issues we are unaware of. Although all evidence points at ATs not being disqualified from consideration, we can only speculate on how Sakurai views these characters. Sakurai, who said "no mooks" and made Piranha Plant the first DLC fighter. You can't with him.
 
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