Suggestion: no more characters from the same console generation!

Planet Cool

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#1
I now propose a new rule for all Smash games going forward: no more pulling characters from the same console generation. For example, since Smash 5 is on Switch, that means no adding playable characters that debuted on the Switch (like Spring Man and Rex/Pyra, for example).

One thing I didn't like about Smash for Wii U/3DS was that it felt like an ad for other popular games that came out around the same time. In my opinion, the biggest offender is Shulk, but Palutena, Dark Pit, Greninja, Robin, Lucina, Corrin, and Bayonetta also qualify. It seems to me that Smash 4 was less about celebrating Nintendo's history and characters and more about trying to sell us more stuff. It's cynical and I really don't like it.

So from now on, I'd like the series to hold off on giving us the flavor of the month. Wait to see if today's popular characters are still popular tomorrow before it puts them next to Link and Mario. I don't mind getting modern characters occasionally, but if most of the newcomers come from that camp, it rubs me the wrong way. Especially since highly-requested classic characters like Toad, King K. Rool, and Ridley are still snubbed.

What do you think?
 

Idon

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#4
I now propose a new rule for all Smash games going forward: no more pulling characters from the same console generation. For example, since Smash 5 is on Switch, that means no adding playable characters that debuted on the Switch (like Spring Man and Rex/Pyra, for example).

One thing I didn't like about Smash for Wii U/3DS was that it felt like an ad for other popular games that came out around the same time. In my opinion, the biggest offender is Shulk, but Palutena, Dark Pit, Greninja, Robin, Lucina, Corrin, and Bayonetta also qualify. It seems to me that Smash 4 was less about celebrating Nintendo's history and characters and more about trying to sell us more stuff. It's cynical and I really don't like it.

So from now on, I'd like the series to hold off on giving us the flavor of the month. Wait to see if today's popular characters are still popular tomorrow before it puts them next to Link and Mario. I don't mind getting modern characters occasionally, but if most of the newcomers come from that camp, it rubs me the wrong way. Especially since highly-requested classic characters like Toad, King K. Rool, and Ridley are still snubbed.

What do you think?
I think it's stupid, arbitrary, and soley exists because you don't like more recent characters.

(and Shulk came out on the Wii, just 2 years after Brawl.)
 

Spirit Toons

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#5
I’m sorry to say this, but Smash has always been a marketing scheme, so your rule would kill the franchise. Look at every Smash and tell me they didn’t but a majority of the roster in for marketing purposes.

Take 64, which primarily had mascots of popular franchises, like Mario and Zelda. It wasn’t too bad, but then you see Jiggly Puff, who only got in due to the anime, because Jiggly Puff was a reoccurring character and Smash wanted to market it.

As for Melee, Roy was put in before his game was even out. All Zelda designs were based on Ocarina, the most recent title they were selling, along with Young Link who was put in to market Majora’s Mask. The Pokemon were solely picked because anime. Yes characters like Game and Watch got in, but he was an exception, not the rule

For Brawl, ohhhh, here we go: Brawl included Ike to sell the newest FE titles. Lucario was included to sell Gen 4 titles. Olimar at was included to sell Pikmin. Sonic was put in because Sonic needed good publicity and marketability after 06. Lucas was put in to advertise Mother 3 to Japanese players. Zelda characters got redesigns to sell Twilight Princess. Toon Link was added to market for Wind Waker. Pit was added because Sakurai can use him as a gateway for his Kid Icarus reboot. And we can’t forget Samus’s Redesign and Zero Suit to market for Zero Mission and Prime.

Smash has always been a marketing scheme because it’s meant to represent Nintendo in the modern era. My question to you is why should they include the characters you listed, especially Krool? Krool has been dead for years and seeing as Nintendo is aimed at Children, kids won’t know who he is causing them to lose interest. And Those interested won’t help as Nintendo doesn’t or can’t use him right now, so development would be wasted on a character with no gain. Sure some older fans might appreciate it, but let’s face it, you would buy the game regardless, so why not focus on characters you can build up interest for.
 
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#6
Wait...isn't this rule already in place?

With the exceptions of the characters chosen (probably specifically) for advertisement by other companies(:4greninja:, :4corrin:,:4robinm:,:4lucina:) nearly every other character appeared from previous eras with them all doing notable work during the Wii era;

:4bowserjr: Gamecube era, moveset based off the Wii era New Super Mario Bros. series
:4ludwig::4lemmy::4morton::4iggy::4wendy::4roy::4larry:: NES era, after an absense they returned in the Wii Era
:4villager: N64 Era, Had two games released in the Wii Era(including a handheld that netted the series more fans)
:4palutena: NES era, Uprising came out just before the Wii U launched in the Wii Era
:4darkpit: Wii Era(very late but still Wii Era)
:4charizard:N64 Era, but heavily used through Pokemon's entire run
:4mii: Wii Era
:4littlemac:Arcade Era, Come back in the Wii era
:4shulk:Wii Era
:rosalina:Wii Era
:4duckhunt:Nes Era(token retro)
:4wiifit:Wii Era
:4pacman: Arcade Era, Crossed over with Mario during the Gamecube/Wii era in Mario Kart
:4megaman:Nes Era
:4ryu:Arcade Era
:4cloud:N64 Era, but released on Playstation
:4bayonetta:Wii Era, but released on Xbox360 and PS3

Honestly the only Wii U character I can think of is :4alph: and he's merely an alt for Olimar.
 

Planet Cool

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#7
I actually think Brawl had the best batch of newcomers, especially Wario, Diddy, King Dedede, Charizard, and Sonic. We mostly got characters that had been famous and popular for years. Yeah, every game has stuff that's only there for marketing purposes, but Smash 4 was the first time it made up most of the new content. It just seemed way too cynical.

Also, it'd be nice if your replies weren't so needlessly aggressive.
 
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Spirit Toons

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#8
I actually think Brawl had the best batch of newcomers, especially Wario, Diddy, King Dedede, Charizard, and Sonic. We mostly got characters that had been famous and popular for years. Yeah, every game has stuff that's only there for marketing purposes, but Smash 4 was the first time it made up most of the new content. It just seemed way too cynical.

Also, it'd be nice if your replies weren't so needlessly aggressive.
I’m going to assume you were talking to me, and in that case I’m sorry for the aggressive behavior.

As for your reply I disagree. Smash only seems to get worse with product placement, so the best would be 64 with only one true product character. As for Brawl, many choices were primarily made to promote franchises.

I think me and you have different views, but all the characters you mentioned above could easily qualify as marketing decision characters as they all come from franchises that were very active around the time.

Wario was put in to represent the Wario Ware titles which were going strong in the early Wii era. Also if you notice, Wario has nothing to do with any of his games outside of the modern Wario Ware titles. Where’s his moves from the Wario Land games? Heck, even his design was made to fit the newer titles instead of the classic Wario. Wario’s move set has nothing to do with his games and completely neglects a majority of Wario’s history at the time.

As for King Dedede, he and Meta Knight were put in to beef up the Kirby roster as Kirby was still a strong, but upcoming franchise for Nintendo. While classic, they were still there to promote modern titles for Kirby. Maybe not the most apparent marketing, but it worked as Meta Knight’s appearance actually made me a Kirby fan, as I played as the character, then bought Super Star Ultra for the DS.

Diddy can also be seen as marketing as DK was still an on going franchise at the time, and Diddy was usually present even though all Country material was scrapped after the N64 era.

Honestly if you wanted to discuss non-marketing characters, R.O.B. would have been an obvious choice as the only thing he did that could be considered modern was being a hidden unlockable in MKDS. Nintendo had nothing to gain from his inclusion as he had no recent uses.

Honestly I see your point that many characters are more “classic”, but they still have marketing attached to them, just less apparent. You need to also remember that Brawl really finalized the main character roster of Smash, as franchises like Kirby and DK didn’t have their main cast present, making it easy to slip in classic characters as new comers.

As for the characters you mentioned, I can see Ridley make it due to Metroid’s recent revival as Nintendo seems to be promoting Metroid hard right now. As for Krool, I feel that his chances are dead since what’s the purpose in using him as he is considered a dead character by many due to a lack of any modern appearances. Finally for Toad, while I feel that he’s a classic, he won’t make it since Captain Toad has made a big identity for himself, so his inclusion would make more sense.
 

CodakTheWarrior

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#9
So, this is a good idea in prospect, but, I'm sorry, implementing silly arbitrary rules for smash rosters around here completely kills hype and just one-hundred percent goes against the core of smash. There are still rules, but they get less and less strict as time progresses.
 

Planet Cool

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#10
Well, at least people aren't angry at me anymore. :p

But really, I didn't mean to rain on anyone's parade. I'm not necessarily saying I don't like the new characters in Smash 4. In fact, I really dig playing as Greninja, Corrin, and Bayonetta. I just felt that the game was constantly trying to sell me something and it really turned me off.

As for Krool, I feel that his chances are dead since what’s the purpose in using him as he is considered a dead character by many due to a lack of any modern appearances.
He's not any more "dead" than the Ice Climbers or Duck Hunt. Recent appearances have really never mattered in Smash, and he's popular enough in both the US and Japan to get that Mii Fighter costume. DK is a much bigger series than people realize (fourth highest selling Nintendo series, fifth if you count Wii Sports) and K. Rool is the main villain of the series, even if he's not in every single game.

Honestly, I'm expecting him. I don't know why people have such a hate-on for him. Since Mega Man got in, K. Rool's been my most wanted character.

Finally for Toad, while I feel that he’s a classic, he won’t make it since Captain Toad has made a big identity for himself, so his inclusion would make more sense.
I disagree. Captain Toad has only existed for a few years whereas regular Toad has been around since the eighties. In my opinion, it makes more sense to add a regular Toad that can draw from Treasure Tracker as well as older games like Super Mario Bros. 2/USA and Wario's Woods.

Basically, I think that any given character's most iconic incarnation is the one that should get in. That's why we got classic Pac-Man instead of the more modern Ghostly Adventures Pac-Man, and why we got Mega Man Classic instead of Mega Man X or something more current.
 

Spirit Toons

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#11
To answer you on your two picks;

Krool doesn’t have the same status as Ice Climbers or Duck Hunt due to being an unused villain and not an unused mascot. Donkey Kong is still going strong, so many character choices will be based off of Retro’s newest titles instead of the Rare titles from the SNES and N64. I personally believe that Dixie will make it this time as she’s appeared in the modern DKC titles, making Krool obsolete in comparison.

I’ll give you this though. The Smash Ballot seemed to be a complete lie as Bayonetta wasn’t the top pick, but Krool was, so maybe he will have a chance.


As for Captain Toad, he would definitely be chosen over regular Toad. Captain Toad has better move set potential as he can’t jump, making him very unique to many Smash characters, and his title provides a plethora of new objects that can be used in attacks. Add in that Captain Toad has an actual game, that is being ported to Switch, and I firmly believe he will have the higher chance compared to regular Toad.
 

Banjodorf

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#12
I now propose a new rule for all Smash games going forward: no more pulling characters from the same console generation. For example, since Smash 5 is on Switch, that means no adding playable characters that debuted on the Switch (like Spring Man and Rex/Pyra, for example).

One thing I didn't like about Smash for Wii U/3DS was that it felt like an ad for other popular games that came out around the same time. In my opinion, the biggest offender is Shulk, but Palutena, Dark Pit, Greninja, Robin, Lucina, Corrin, and Bayonetta also qualify. It seems to me that Smash 4 was less about celebrating Nintendo's history and characters and more about trying to sell us more stuff. It's cynical and I really don't like it.

So from now on, I'd like the series to hold off on giving us the flavor of the month. Wait to see if today's popular characters are still popular tomorrow before it puts them next to Link and Mario. I don't mind getting modern characters occasionally, but if most of the newcomers come from that camp, it rubs me the wrong way. Especially since highly-requested classic characters like Toad, King K. Rool, and Ridley are still snubbed.

What do you think?
>Biggest offender is Shulk

...How? How?!

Like, pick a character who debuted on a 3DS, like Dark Pit or Corrin, but Shulk literally debuted during the previous console generation. On the Wii.

Besides, it's kind of arbitrary, and would limit design space in a way that feels silly.
 

Planet Cool

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#16
Krool doesn’t have the same status as Ice Climbers or Duck Hunt due to being an unused villain and not an unused mascot. Donkey Kong is still going strong, so many character choices will be based off of Retro’s newest titles instead of the Rare titles from the SNES and N64. I personally believe that Dixie will make it this time as she’s appeared in the modern DKC titles, making Krool obsolete in comparison.

I’ll give you this though. The Smash Ballot seemed to be a complete lie as Bayonetta wasn’t the top pick, but Krool was, so maybe he will have a chance.
I really don't think it matters that K. Rool is a villain or that he's unused. What matters is that he's popular. People have been requesting him since Brawl. I think it speaks well for the character that fans are still talking about him even though he's been AWOL since 2009 or so. Besides... he'd just be a cool addition. There's so much unique stuff he could do. Leaving him out for some arbitrary reason seems like a huge loss to me.

And it is K. Rool, not Krool. Unless you're making fun of the Donkey Kong cartoon, in which case, carry on.

As for Captain Toad, he would definitely be chosen over regular Toad. Captain Toad has better move set potential as he can’t jump, making him very unique to many Smash characters, and his title provides a plethora of new objects that can be used in attacks. Add in that Captain Toad has an actual game, that is being ported to Switch, and I firmly believe he will have the higher chance compared to regular Toad.
The fact that Captain Toad can't jump makes him unique in a terrible way. No one would want to play as him. He'd be at the very bottom of the tier list for sure. If Captain Toad does get in, they'll have to give him a jump (even if it's something creative such as having a Flaptor pick him up, as one "leaker" suggested). And if they're going to do that, might as well go with the classic Toad. He can still have Captain Toad stuff like the pickax without being tied to that one identity.
 
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Khao

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#17
Shulk, Palutena and Bayonetta aren't even from the Wii U's console generation, what's even this complaint, lol.

Also.
I’ll give you this though. The Smash Ballot seemed to be a complete lie as Bayonetta wasn’t the top pick, but Krool was.
Source.

Claims that the Ballot was a lie keep coming. There's still zero evidence to support them.

And no, personal expectations are not evidence.
 
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