substitute

Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
28
#2
how do you effectivly use this move?
The best use is as an edgeguard. Against most recoveries with a hitbox, drop just below the edge of the stage right before your opponent uses their Up B recovery. Now you just have to choose your angle. If on last stock, angling straight down should spike your opponent before you die yourself. If it's not last stock, angling straight upwards is safe and will kill at high percents. I've also heard that angling down and diagonally toward the stage can spike your opponent while allowing you to grab the ledge but I haven't seen this yet.

On stage it is much more about making a hard read. Is your opponent spamming hitboxes and not grabbing often? Throw one of these out every now and then. You can also react to slow attacks, but mostly you will have to rely on reads.

Offstage as a defensive option (assuming you're not too low); even if you whiff you should be safe in your vulnerable state.

Using it high above the stage; if you whiff it, you're high up and moving which makes you a harder target during vulnerability. Also, your opponent should be falling at this point and will have to jump again to attack, likely giving you enough time to be out of the vulnerable state.

Using it on a platform while your opponent is below is riskier but can work (preferably a high platform); unless they land on the platform with you, they cannot grab you (save for command grabs), and if you whiff it, your opponent has to fall and jump again to attack a second time, possibly allowing you enough time to use another defensive option.
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
28
#3
I just thought of one more after my last post.

Against lingering/multi-hitbox aerials you should often have enough time to use substitute reactively (think Yoshi/Link dair, Fox/Samus Fair). People often start these moves early because it protects them against anti aerials, meaning there's a little time before they actually get to you which gives you enough start up time on Substitute.
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
28
#5
what I mean is how to get the actual move off
Oh I see.

To activate substitute, press down and B right before an enemy hits you with an attack (not a grab) and Greninja performs a counter attack in a direction you can choose. To choose the direction, right after you have hit down and b, smash and hold the analog stick in the direction you want Greninja to attack in. Be careful, because this move sends Greninja kinda far so you can kill yourself with it.
 

soviet prince

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#6
Oh I see.

To activate substitute, press down and B right before an enemy hits you with an attack (not a grab) and Greninja performs a counter attack in a direction you can choose. To choose the direction, right after you have hit down and b, smash and hold the analog stick in the direction you want Greninja to attack in. Be careful, because this move sends Greninja kinda far so you can kill yourself with it.
I must not be doing it right, I push down b but he just gets clobbered lol.
 
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
28
#7
I must not be doing it right, I push down b but he just gets clobbered lol.
If Greninja is striking the pose but then you still get hit, that means you are pressing down b too soon. If he doesn't strike the pose at all then you are pressing down b too late.

The move is not instant; you can't use it like you use shield or dodges (except against slow attacks). You kind of have to read your opponents patterns and ultimately guess.

It just takes practice to get used to the timing. It might be useful to have a friend play as a slow heavy character and spam smash attacks against you, or play against a heavy CPU on moderate difficulty settings.
 
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