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Stylin' On You! Two! A Western New York Tournament. March 13th Payout and Stages vote

Gaia_x

Smash Champion
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Apr 4, 2007
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I agree. I was looking forward to that chicken sandwhich. Label your stuff. Including your food.
 

ViciousEnd

Smash Journeyman
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Feb 5, 2010
Messages
297
So we're paying $10 entrance fee and they're taking 10% of the pot? Jesus christ
This is stupid.

Also, **** not being able to coach. As long as both players are provided with the opportunity it's fine. People do it at ****ing nationals, so why are we any different?
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
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because we dont dickride other people just because they are better than us at the game like you do.

if you want to get better, learn how to pick apart your opponent habits yourself, and stop relying on other people
 

ViciousEnd

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because we dont dickride other people just because they are better than us at the game like you do.

if you want to get better, learn how to pick apart your opponent habits yourself, and stop relying on other people
Sometimes players learn best from other people.
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
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not in the middle of a game

p.s. the idea that the idea of being coached is available equally to everyone is full of crap.
 

ViciousEnd

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not in the middle of a game

p.s. the idea that the idea of being coached is available equally to everyone is full of crap.
I'm not supporting coaching during the games of a match. That would be distracting. I'm saying if someone needs some advice in between games, by all means that is fair because it is not distracting for either player, and both players can take that time to find someone more knowledgeable about the character they are fighting.
 

Gaia_x

Smash Champion
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I dont think coaching should be a problem. If the player is better then the other player hes should win regaurdless of whose coaching or getting coached. But i also dont mind people not coaching either.
 

dudutsai

Smash Lord
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Lincoln MA
Missed the FF discussion... FML

I would like to have a ride to this, if possible.
6 is better than 7. 12 is good. Nobody mentioned 4.

Restart SON
 

ViciousEnd

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Messages
297
Missed the FF discussion... FML

I would like to have a ride to this, if possible.
6 is better than 7. 12 is good. Nobody mentioned 4.

Restart SON
???

I have no idea what you said other than we are doing mad friendlies, and a money match.
 

Gaia_x

Smash Champion
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We had a discussion the other day at my fest. And we all agreed FF X-2 was the best.
 

soma ghost

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WNY
FF7 best! 8 and 9 are equally good even though they couldn't be any more different. 10 and above I did not get into. 1 and 6 are good too.
the end of 9 is just so bad.
 

TheManaLord

Smash Hero
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Upstate NY
shut up everyone please ******s

tournament hype? melee hype? brawl hype? or are we done after ss2??? the same enthusiasm is required for this event to make it a success.

no bum touching and lolly licking, get to business you azsfuks.


Edit: The venue fee business is bull****. What about the first event? We're going to have way more people at this and I don't remember that being the case. But please, correct me if I'm wrong.
 

TheHulk

Smash Apprentice
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Feb 13, 2009
Messages
99
praying cura, still want to team for brawl? we can do some dubz online if ud like
 

altairian

Smash Lord
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Ballston Spa, NY
Currently, yes.

I mostly prefer random nuetrals, and most people I play in tourney tend to no have a preference either.

but this specific tourney I wanted to go with an exclusively MBR ruleset for melee, since its a pretty new ruleset. which consists of stage striking


I highly encourage EVERYONE to read through the entire ruleset.
I agree wholeheartedly that random neutrals is fine. HOWEVER, brawl doesn't exactly have "neutral" stages. It just has stages that are less unfair for a given matchup than others.

Examples why I think random starters is bad:
-IC's on FD
-Diddy on FD
-Olimar on yoshi's

To name a few.

The striking system was implemented specifically for this reason. While that stage list is MOSTLY neutral, it is not neutral all the time. And I'm gonna have a really hard time convincing, for example, a diddy player to not let it random when he knows it could come up with FD and give him a huge advantage. And the entire system is defeated if I end up on a stage that puts me at a huge disadvantage in the first game of a set.
 

Gaia_x

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I usually agree to what alt says but this id have to disagree. Some characters had a rather big disadvantage on some of the neutral stages and random maybe their only hope of getting a good stage. Besides if your playing an mk. all they have to do is strike FD and YI and they wont lose! Besides random is my only chance of getting FD Loll. But i feel if mk is allowed in tournament so should random stages!
 

altairian

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Some characters had a rather big disadvantage on some of the neutral stages and random maybe their only hope of getting a good stage.
That's exactly my point, lol. The first game of a set is supposed to be on the most neutral stage possible. If we want randomness to determine the winner of games lets just turn items on :p
 

Gaia_x

Smash Champion
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Its really no complete randomness. Some characters are really good on the basic neutrals so if you get rid of those stages that character is bad on then he starts off with an advantage Also there no way for us to do stage striking because hes only got 4 neutrals. So it has to be random stage.

Also

All really really gay stages that shouldnt be on the list.


Distant Planet
Green Greens
Jungle Japes
Pictochat
Pokémon Stadium 2
Hanenbow (Doubles only)

Annndddd Ps1 should be a neutral if enough people prefer the stage striking process


Edit: Hulk once i find out that snakeee isnt coming 10000% we'll definetly do some wifi games to see if we are good on teams. no promises!!
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
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I agree wholeheartedly that random neutrals is fine. HOWEVER, brawl doesn't exactly have "neutral" stages. It just has stages that are less unfair for a given matchup than others.

Examples why I think random starters is bad:
-IC's on FD
-Diddy on FD
-Olimar on yoshi's

To name a few.

The striking system was implemented specifically for this reason. While that stage list is MOSTLY neutral, it is not neutral all the time. And I'm gonna have a really hard time convincing, for example, a diddy player to not let it random when he knows it could come up with FD and give him a huge advantage. And the entire system is defeated if I end up on a stage that puts me at a huge disadvantage in the first game of a set.

Diddy is not autowin on FD,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93wxSc8JoCc
learn that and youll be begging diddys to go to fd. lol...
fd is actually a really bad idea for some of diddys matchups as far as I can tell, since they are one of the best stages for sonic, falco, and rob, the latter 2 of which do very well vs diddy. people only think diddy is amazing on fd because most diddys fight a lot of mks, and fd is mks worst stage.

Ics on fd.
Yea, thats really gay, but at the same time as far as im concerned, smashville is one of the strongest counterpicks AGAINST the ics in the game. so you have an equal chance of getting possibly the best and the worst stage for your character in the game, seems pretty fair to me.

and since when is olimar on yoshis such a great idea? nobody here even plays olimar, so that seems like a doubly moot point to me.
 

TheManaLord

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It still comes down to chance, which isn't fair.

And I play Olimar in brawl and I might actually plan on entering and I will definitely make the PR in at least two or three events. But I know nothing of the stages or matchups in this game so it doesn't matter lol xD Do whatever, stage striking is just something that a lot of people like doing because players can more or less agree on what stage to play.
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
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Location
Rochester, NY
Distant Planet
Green Greens
Pokémon Stadium 2

Jungle Japes
Pictochat


Hanenbow (Doubles only)
blue are stages that I could take or leave, and if enough people take issue, i dont mind banning them.

orange are stages i have researched throughly and feel that are not at all detrimental to the game, and that you will have to work very hard to convince me that they should be banned.

Hanenbow for doubles is a stage I would like some healthy discussion on, because some people seem to really hate it (cura, Jesiah) and some people seem to love it immensely (leet-0, alt) so im torn as to what to do about that.



 

altairian

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Diddy is not autowin on FD,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93wxSc8JoCc
learn that and youll be begging diddys to go to fd. lol...
fd is actually a really bad idea for some of diddys matchups as far as I can tell, since they are one of the best stages for sonic, falco, and rob, the latter 2 of which do very well vs diddy. people only think diddy is amazing on fd because most diddys fight a lot of mks, and fd is mks worst stage.
So your counter argument is...there are characters even more broken on FD than diddy is. Okay, cool. How exactly does that support random neutrals?

Ics on fd.
Yea, thats really gay, but at the same time as far as im concerned, smashville is one of the strongest counterpicks AGAINST the ics in the game. so you have an equal chance of getting possibly the best and the worst stage for your character in the game, seems pretty fair to me.
so...when someone gets screwed by random neutrals giving them the worst possible stage for a matchup, they should be cheered up by the fact that they had an equal chance of the other person getting screwed? But you're only playing one set, so if you get screwed by random, then you're basically playing a set where your opponent got 2 counterpicks. That's fair?

and since when is olimar on yoshis such a great idea? nobody here even plays olimar, so that seems like a doubly moot point to me.
I knew someone was going to say "nobody plays olimar". SO WHAT. You don't know what random kids are gonna show up. If you're gonna be a good TO you need to think about the larger picture.
And newsflash, platforms are AMAZING for olimar. His upsmash *****, and platforms protect him from aerial approaches. He can camp the middle of yoshi's all day and most characters can't do **** about it. Granted I don't know a lot about pikmin pull percentages and stuff so maybe yoshi's isn't a good stage for him in that regard.
 

da K.I.D.

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So your counter argument is...there are characters even more broken on FD than diddy is. Okay, cool. How exactly does that support random neutrals?

you say, "Diddy is broken on FD, so if a character can beat him there, that means they are even more broken which is bad"

I say, "Diddy is broken on FD, but if a character can beat him there, that means its not as broken as I thought, which is good"

so...when someone gets screwed by random neutrals giving them the worst possible stage for a matchup, they should be cheered up by the fact that they had an equal chance of the other person getting screwed? But you're only playing one set, so if you get screwed by random, then you're basically playing a set where your opponent got 2 counterpicks. That's fair?
What if you are playing a matchup where the opponent ***** you on 3 of the 5 stages and you can only strike 2? your screwed regardless, theres a way to get screwed in every system, I just happen to think this system screws people less in the big picture (that thing you said I was out of touch with) because in a practical setting, theres going to be a large number of people playing metaknight and random neutrals gives the opponent a chance to fight him on FD as opposed to letting him get a free pass to never play on a stage that give the opponent a decent chance...

I knew someone was going to say "nobody plays olimar". SO WHAT. You don't know what random kids are gonna show up. If you're gonna be a good TO you need to think about the larger picture.
And newsflash, platforms are AMAZING for olimar. His upsmash *****, and platforms protect him from aerial approaches. He can camp the middle of yoshi's all day and most characters can't do **** about it. Granted I don't know a lot about pikmin pull percentages and stuff so maybe yoshi's isn't a good stage for him in that regard.

battlefield has platforms.
smashville has a moving platform,
yoshis has a platform, this is one of those situations where if platforms are really that good for olimar I would like a chance to get fd on random so that he doesnt get to over power me with platforms.

see? fair.
 

altairian

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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Ballston Spa, NY

you say, "Diddy is broken on FD, so if a character can beat him there, that means they are even more broken which is bad"

I say, "Diddy is broken on FD, but if a character can beat him there, that means its not as broken as I thought, which is good"
Except when those characters that beat Diddy on FD play a non-diddy on FD....

What if you are playing a matchup where the opponent ***** you on 3 of the 5 stages and you can only strike 2? your screwed regardless, theres a way to get screwed in every system, I just happen to think this system screws people less in the big picture (that thing you said I was out of touch with) because in a practical setting, theres going to be a large number of people playing metaknight and random neutrals gives the opponent a chance to fight him on FD as opposed to letting him get a free pass to never play on a stage that give the opponent a decent chance...
Name some matchups that 3 out of 5 neutrals are going to be terrible for one player. And then tell me how it's bad that you get to pick which one of those 3 neutrals you actually play on against that character. Yes, you're at a disadvantage, BUT you get to determine the exact form that disadvantage takes.

You might want to study statistics a little bit. In the long run, random neutrals would be fine. However, a single set is NOT the long run. Not even close.

Also, how many MK mains are there in our region? 1? And even M2K loses games on BF and SV, the character is not THAT broken on stages that aren't FD.


battlefield has platforms.
smashville has a moving platform,
yoshis has a platform, this is one of those situations where if platforms are really that good for olimar I would like a chance to get fd on random so that he doesnt get to over power me with platforms.

see? fair.
So olimar likes 75% of the stages, you like 25% of the stages, and this is fair?
 

da K.I.D.

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Rochester, NY
the solution to the problem you are presenting is not stage striking, the solution to the problem you are presenting is for everyone to play captain falcon.

characters are going to inherently have advantages and disadvantages, stages make these things more or less diverse, how much *perceived* neutrality this contains is going to change from person to person.

its sounds like you are striving for a non feasible level of neutrality, which would result in an entire tournament of CF dittos on FD only
 

TheManaLord

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Upstate NY
The character imbalances in Brawl warrant using stage striking more than melee does. Does it not? Ive heard of like 100-0 matchups that are COMPLETELY stage dependent. That's a little ****ed up!
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
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youve either heard wrong, or are embelishing, or are talking about a stage thats probably banned anyway, has nothing to do with neutrals.
 

da K.I.D.

Smash Hero
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lol thats a standing cg on fox, which means he can do it on any stage.

which reminds me

alt.

pika/fox mm?
2? 5? 10 dollars?
 

Gaia_x

Smash Champion
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Messages
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Goggles ill do a pikachu vs fox 5 $ mm with you. Also i dont mind random neutrals nor do i mind stage striking. I only play on neutral most of the time due to ICs really only being good on neutrals. So either way its usually a good situation for me. But its your call.

The stages high lighted in oranged are the stages i also have the least problem with. though picto to me is an iffie.
 

altairian

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Ballston Spa, NY
No.

And mana you're pretty close with the 100:0 statement when it's IC's on FD. Obviously it's still player dependant, but a really good IC's is gonna get grabs on FD unless you play literally perfectly for an entire game, or plank I suppose :p
Stages have a pretty high impact on a lot of matchups, that's like 90% of the reason that counterpicking exists. I don't see why myself or my opponent should be given a free counterpick in the first game of a set due to luck.

edit: oh yeah forgot about this one

the solution to the problem you are presenting is not stage striking
Striking is the most widely accepted and easiest method for doing starters IMO, but I don't recall ever saying that it MUST be stage striking ;)
I'm pointing out a problem. The solution is up to you.
 

Riddle

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I need someone for teams in both games. Uhh prolly Jiggz(Melee)/Wario(Brawl) Umm someone who doesn't want to win too bad because I haven't played in a while.

Also, I'm 14. That doesn't mean I'm bad but don't expect some like 19 year old.

For WNY people its Phish.
 

soma ghost

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 20, 2009
Messages
307
Location
WNY
ten percent of the entrance fee going to the venue seems kinda weird. Isn't the venue fee the fee for the venue? . . . .

so essentially the venue fee is 10.50 to 12.00 dollars depending on how many events you enter. I'd rather just pay the extra .5 to 2 dollars on the venue rather than have money taken out of the pot.

that way they will get there money, and so will the tournament winners.

honestly though, isn't the 10 dollar fee enough already?
 

Gaia_x

Smash Champion
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Messages
2,085
No.

And mana you're pretty close with the 100:0 statement when it's IC's on FD. Obviously it's still player dependant, but a really good IC's is gonna get grabs on FD unless you play literally perfectly for an entire game, or plank I suppose :p
Stages have a pretty high impact on a lot of matchups, that's like 90% of the reason that counterpicking exists. I don't see why myself or my opponent should be given a free counterpick in the first game of a set due to luck.
ICs on FD arent really that great in my opinion. Its good against certain match ups such as Mk, Marth, ike and dk and more. But its terrible for certain match ups. Diddy vs IC on fd is really good for diddy. Snake vs IC is already 70-30 on FD it probably becomes a 75-25 to 80-20.
I dont believe most Ic players find FD good because of getting grabs to me its just as harder to get a grab on FD do to the amount of space your opponent has to move around.

However It is good once the grab is obtained because you have alot more room to freely CG from 1 stage to t other with out having to turn around and such also sense its a flat stage (unlike YI and sometimes PS1) But its definetly hard to get a grab on majority of the cast in my opinion. I feel that what most ICs like about FD is the space which allows for more room to desync, spam/camp and less shield pressure put on Ics. Also its good to have a stage that your less likely to be taken off stage (assuming your not playing at the edge)

Anyways just cause we do random stage we can't assume FD will be good for certain characters. Its safe to say jesiah would probably 2-3 stock me on FD though we'd go even on a stage like BF that Not so good for climbers.

Besides you can ask a majority of players i play against my ban is usually FD. So i think stages to me comes down to what your good on not really whats a good character stage.


Anyways! The fact of the matter is unless goggles adds another stage to the neutral list. There will be no stage striking!



Edit: Please note that this is my opinion!! I dont care how well or what other players say about ICs on FD. thx!
 
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