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Guide Stubby Arms and Fireballs: The Comprehensive Mario Guide

GeZ

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
1,763
Location
The Speed Force
I'm making this thread to help out all of the Mario mains I see desperately flailing about in all threads on the Mario forums. Instead of taking bad advice from people who don't know the character well enough, I urge you to direct your attention, study, practice, and questions, here.

I'll start by posting the guide that really helped broaden my understanding and use of Mario's tools. It's a bit heavy thought wise so feel free to ask questions, and if you're not too well versed in smash theory yet, you may want to wait for my own addition, where I explain a lot more basic aspects of Mario, in a more basic way.
Credit to Nausicaa for this incredible guide

Development Acceleration Threads
WARNING : Wall of text with very little to no TL;DR and Not Proof-Read Yet

I figured I’d take some time to do something for the forum community. I’m not sure how helpful it will be, but if even 1 person gets something out of these threads, I’m satisfied and it was worth it. If this helps a lot of people a bit, then that’s just extra awesomeness.

So if you think there’s anything I’ve missed that might help someone, or if there’s something I cover that isn’t needed, let me know. I simply want these threads to be the most helpful they can be.

Given my leet writing skills, my leet smash skills, and my leet coaching and teaching skills at all levels in the game, I have an interesting set of successful credentials and unique insights. So I feel like it’s my duty to give something like this to the Project M community.

Purpose and Intro

These threads are to provide a form of guide series aimed towards increasing the rate at both learning characters from the beginning and improving with them indefinitely.

There will be no charts regarding move collision effects or frame data in these threads. Nothing about character match-up comparisons or stage counter-picking lists. This isn’t for or from statistics or data in any way. Those concepts and details can be discussed and mentioned elsewhere on the character forums unless brought up in discussion here at some point, but won’t be in the opening post.

Both Melee direct crossed characters and from scratch PM characters will be presented the same way in their respected threads and discussed the same. Many players new to smash or coming from Brawl are not familiar with Melee characters and could use this as a means of catching up to what those characters are bringing to PM completely. Veteran Melee players can either use this as a touch up on their game or a refreshment of going over what they know and chance of relearning what they may have forgotten or not given enough attention to before.

The Melee characters will likely be in more depth, and will provide an example of the depth hoped for when the PM characters are completed. As well, there is something new that every character is getting from the PM general game itself, and the Melee game is ever-changing so there is always something new to learn for even advanced and knowledgeable players.

These threads are meant to cover everything that a player will either inevitably learn about the characters that will benefit from on their personal path to learning the characters their own way.
These threads are meant to go into specifics of application and understanding about everything each character can do, but on a universal level that will aid in simply pointing out ideas utilizing the tools a player will find in the character and smash learning process at all levels.

Almost all of what’s covered in a specific character thread applies in some way to all other characters, so all threads will be useful no matter what character you play or how you play them. I’m simply going to cover the central parts that have the greatest significance to the character that each thread is directed to. Reading all threads could be beneficial to all characters, but only the focal point will be covered in each.

Developing Faculties

There will be two main topics generally covered that should fulfill most of what this thread is for.

Technical Faculties
These cover everything from difficult but necessary muscle memory requirements to the diverse application of simpler and easier actions that are all very essential.

Mental Faculties
These cover all the things to watch for throughout the course of a match relating to your interactions with your opponents and how to manage yourself accordingly.

Faculty Development will be the core of this guide. To develop as a player with a character, you first must gain access to all the tools you’ll need to do so on a technical and mental level. Your ability to consciously and accurately perform the actions you intend to do is a branch of littered stepping stones along the path to becoming the best you can be with that character and in this game. There will always be room for these to grow, but these must come first at least to some extent before you can use your own creative uniqueness and inventive play to its fullest.

A lot of these will vary from player to player, based off preference, style, habit and the centre of commitment, though it is encouraged to both new and old players to continuously insure that they are natural options and as comfortable to perform when asked upon at any and all times.
For new players, it’s a basic outline or collection of options in directions they may want to take their game. Things they will find along the way.
For old players, it’s for further development or refreshment to either reinforce what is solid, or to bring something they’re missing, into their game.

Before the character specifics, here are a few quick pointers that can be looked back to at any time. For players finding a creative spark, inspiration, success or leaping ahead, and just as much for players getting stuck, bored, frustrated or having trouble improving. Hopefully these will provide help at most times.

3 Points

1 To improve means to become different towards what is better. To become different means to change. Therefore, improving is only possible through changing. It’s an overlooked universal truth, in a way, and often avoided because changing implies the risk of becoming worse and can usually feel uncomfortable, at least at first. Though the idea is simple to get around that discomfort. In that if the change is making you worse off but you see the potential, stick with it, where if it’s not showing any signs of possibility, change it again, and if a change brings improvement, keep it.

There is no moment that passes in which you can’t get something from, no matter how great or minor. If you feel flustered in any way because you can’t find some way to improve at the time, or are moving slower than preferred, that idea and sense alone is what you’ve taken from the moment, and that counts for more than you may think. It may just have less immediate improvement compared to potential. Use your mind as a mirror, reject nothing, grasp at nothing, receive but do not keep.

2 Have fun. Do what you have fun doing, and make fun in doing whatever you’re doing. Fun isn’t an objective thing you can find and attain, it’s how you yourself are perceiving and enjoying whatever you’ve attained or are attaining. If you’re losing a lot of matches to players you don’t want to lose to, find enjoyment in searching for ways to beat them rather than focus on the stocks at the end of the matches themselves. If you have no players to play that give you a challenge and you want more, learn to teach them how to beat you with proper and pure intentions and that will help you more than anything else.

What you take from a match means more than what happens in the match itself. When the match is over, the match no longer matters, only the matches ahead. The matches ahead will only be affected by what the now non-existent match has left you with, here and now. It’s also often overlooked that teaching can be the best way to learn, so falling back on that is a good thing.

3 If you want to make something a part of your game, that means you have to actually take a part of your time, effort and attention and put it there. Just as you make this game a part of your life by taking time to do so. In terms of improving, much, if not all of what can be shared with you is something you would eventually learn on your own. All a teaching or helping hand is, is an opportunity for you to possibly skip the trial and error phase by learning what is shown. You are the one that learns, something cannot be taught to you and produce results.

Every win, loss, reading or conversation is an opportunity, much of it you may know, much of it you may not. This means it takes your own effort to practice on your own, as well as being open and asking questions if someone else may think or do something a certain way. A community that communicates will thrive, collectivity is necessary to improve both personally and as a group. Remember, everyone is in this together, but that takes participation with others as well as on your own time to bring yourself to where you want to be.

Credits and Contributions

None of the content in these threads can be credited to me directly. It’s all because of the players involved in the creation of Project M since its beginning, all of the players involved in the development of the play for each smash game, along with every players commitment and contributions to the community for the last decade and more, and the community as a whole. As well as any players that add to the discussion and content of these guides themselves.

Development Acceleration Thread : Mario
Mario is a very solid and well rounded character, but only within certain boundaries. He has the tools needed for everything and they almost all work universally, meaning all of his tools are useful all of the time. This can be looked at several ways, but finding a balance in play around in this is tricky. With these types of balances, I like to revert back to the basics and tend to discuss and teach them from the route. Here, I’ll relate to the development of Mario to the elements, Earth, Water, Fire and Air. The route of everything, in a way. These will be the building blocks on how to make him most effective.

Earth

With Mario, you have what you need to cover every angle at any time. The tricky part comes with the way he doesn’t cover anything excessive amounts for very long, so it takes constant awareness and proper activity to be as solid as Mario can be. Since you have the potential to have access to what you need at any given moment, the only time you don’t have access to those tools is when you’re being hit. When you’re not in the process of being hit, you can handle anything. Naturally, this means one thing. Safety first.

1 - Staying Grounded

Mario isn’t a walling character, or a lock-out or lock-down character. He’s not built like a tank or evasive character either. Despite all this, he can create a very profound form of solidity. This comes from the way he’s built to be functional when he has access to all of the necessary tools to cover anything, to be at full capacity. To do this, it’s simple enough. Play him solidly. Play like you’re a block, a fortress, a tank, a rock. When you’re playing like a solid chunk of earth, then your tools are all accessible, but most importantly, they won’t be taken away from you. Your opponent won’t be able to make your tools inaccessible, and this means you’ll be at fully capacity.

You have the tools to do this, and this protects all your other tools. How it works, is utilizing the core and essentials of what Mario has to become impenetrable while still active. Never overextending, but still very extendable. He’s loaded with everything from hard hits to soft hits, quick attacks to slow attacks at all different angles and ranges. He’s mobile in all ways at all times. All of these in effect guarantees an unbreakable foundation. The only time this isn’t guaranteed is when he breaks it himself. So don’t break it.

Stay grounded, as that’s where you have more access to all your tools. If you overextend with full jumps or get caught out of position off stage, on platforms or while approaching, you’re taking unnecessary risks. You don’t need to take major risks if you’re enforcing yourself as a rock while you move. Mario is most threatening when he’s at full capacity, not when he’s in the process of committing to only some part of his game.

On the ground, you have more directional control due to your dash dance, short hops and wavedash all being very effectively functional and quick. This leaves room to evade or approach whenever you need to. If you’re in the process of other actions simply to cover yourself, you’ll leave gaps where you can be approached more easily or you’ll miss chances to approach. If you have total control over your directional speed at all times, you’re much harder to penetrate.

2 - Shielding

Mario has a lot of offensive options out of his shield with solid aerials and his grab, so using your shield as an approach is something that’s important to be familiar with. Your burst speed can get you to where you need to be, but it won’t be often that approaches are guaranteed since he doesn’t shine at forcing openings, he can simply take them when they’re there. So shielding may often be the best thing to fall back on in an uncertain situation.

When a shield approach doesn’t work, you need to get out in the most efficient way that returns your options so you can stay solid. Make sure shielding and wavedashing out is very natural. You want to keep mobile both to approach and evade, but when there’s a chance you’ll be caught by something as you pressure them, you need to make sure it’s not taking away your options for long, if at all.

While staying grounded, you have access to your greatest offensive tool, grabs. Grabs will lead to more on a universal level than almost anything else Mario has. This gives you more control of positioning than any other tool since it leaves you options after connecting one. The more you can keep your options open while on offense, the better, since Mario thrives on options. Grabs have plenty of flexibility and make a good foundation for the following potential damage output.

Mario has a solid aerial game to go along with his ground game. All his aerials have decent range and can hit hard to follow up. They’re all useful in different ways in short hops too. If the opponent commits to something in means of approaching you or countering your approach, you might have the option of catching them with an aerial. Be fluent using all of your aerials in short hops, as approaches or backing away, and from your shield to counter or punish after successful baits.

Always be ready to take opportunities when the come up. Stay close to your opponent and close in on them but don’t leave openings. Your presence alone will be a solid offense if you’re staying mobile without leaving any cracks for them.

Keep in mind at all times during the neutral game that keeping all of his options at the ready is the greatest priority. Without a rock foundation, the functionality of his flexibility is weakened simply for being at risk. Those tools are all ready for Mario whether you play like a solid dense block or not, so playing with the intention of not letting the opponent have any chances isn’t going to hinder your own chances. It will only insure you’ll get your chances. By staying grounded, you’re never loose from options.

Water

Given that Mario has so many options for everything but doesn’t excel in too many areas, it’s necessary to be able to meld all of his tools together fluently while in full motion. A comfort with all the nuances and intricate variations of how he can move and what he can do during those movements are what will keep you threatening the opponent, as this is what defines his offense. This is the natural state of Mario, but is only possible when he’s safe to use it, so the foundation is needed before his potential offense can always be maxed. To be at maximum potential once he has the option, all transitional tools are needed to go from the neutral game onward.
1 - Mobility

Mario can’t cover great distances too quickly, but he is quick and can maintain speed in bursts with his diverse mobility game. To keep his speed control and diversity in mobility, all tools are needed for all purposes. The full dash dance game, offstage game and air game are all essential, but have to remain flexible and solid to not leave any possible holes while he moves at this pace.

The dash dance game includes wavedashing, short hops and dash dances themselves. All of these must be in full unison at all times so he has the ability to be where he wants to be without delay. Become fluently mobile with all variations and situations around opponents while being aware of what options you have to translate to offense during these motions. Make sure you’re acting immediately after the various mobility actions, to not slow yourself between them. Keep your movements flowing smoothly without jaggedness or faults.

Immediately after attempted or connected aerials, grabs, pivots or shields, move as soon as possible as you see fit so you’re staying fluent. All of his tools flow well together, so find a nice balance between doing the actions and positioning yourself to do the actions. Make it very natural to cover an area and ready yourself to cover another instantly. It’s essential to keep a steady flow between all options so your options can be used when most ideal.
2 - Capitalizing

There are many ways to capitalize on opportunities from the solid foundation, but you need to be comfortable with all of them to not miss chances. Knowledge of all these options and what they’re capable of penetrating is important, but the application of them without hesitation is what will make Mario an offensive threat and force.

Be very comfortable how fast and far you can travel with wavedashes or dashes going into grabs. This will be a primary approach, combo and pressure tool. Keep your ground mobility fluid and use the flexible speed control he has to constantly have access to grabbing opportunities. Always insure that you’re safe, but be comfortable in going for grab attempts among your movements at all times. The reward is often worth the risk of mild overextending.

The same goes for dashing into pivots and wavedashing into attacks. All of his ground moves are very versatile and important to all parts of his game from covering areas to combos. Make pivoting a natural motion with all tools including tilts, grabs, jumps and smashes. The flexibility of using any attack at anytime while in motion on the ground is something accessible to Mario, so being capable of using all these tools will bring finer points to the diversity of his overall game.

The aerial options from the ground are all very essential to his transitional game as well. Short hopping them for combos, tech chasing and connecting on approaches all play a large role for him. Become comfortable at using all aerials from all distances from all possible positions and following all other actions that can set them up.

When moving around platforms, the options Mario has become more limited so he’s not at full capacity in the air. However, he is fully capable of following combos and chases on platforms when the opportunity comes. Ledge cancelling aerials, wavelanding on and off platforms as well as following combos using platforms are all key components in keeping his air and combo game effective. Don’t commit to platforms without a certainty that something will come of it, as you’re limited yourself, but the reward can be great.

Each of these tools, aerials, grabs and ground based attacks, have to be accessible to you to completely use Mario to his fullest. Have access to all of these on command and naturally so they flow together as one. All of these will take part in all parts of his game and the more fluent they are, they smoothly bring more benefit from each successful attempt at offense. If any of these options aren’t comfortable within the flow, there is more that Mario is capable of yet to come.

Fire

When the foundation is solid and all his options are function with fluidity, his offensive out put comes into play. Mario has even diversity in moves to combo any character off of many different initial connections. Being safe from the hits you want to avoid and being mobile enough to get where you want to be, this allows for Mario to take the safe and accurate offensive actions that he will be guaranteed decent damage output from.

1 - Combos

Grabs are something that will universally have high reward for connecting. So aiming to either force the opponent into their shield or scare them into playing defensive is important. This is where the pressure game comes in, which Mario is fully capable of with his burst speed and mass of options while moving nearby. With this being a target, know which throws will lead to the best positioning for you so when you land a grab, you can make the most of it. This will differ based on stage position, damage and opponent, but is essential to your offense since grabs are a key component.

With all other attacks there are a few factors to be aware of. For one, know which moves will send the opponent into a tumble state or a tech at the given moment. Mario has a variety of strengths in attacks and having a good feel for what will combo when is important towards punishing opponents with the most outcome. Whether it’s an aerial or tilt, be familiar with which ones will start or extend a combo further, and which will set up edge-guards or positioning on a direct hit or at the end of a combo.

Another factor is the trajectory on attacks. He has a wide range of options when it comes to directions he can send opponents at the various distances. If you can finish a combo with a hard hit to lead to edge-guarding or good positioning, then do so. If you can extend a combo in any way while still keeping the option of finishing it decently, then extend it. Find as many ways of extending combos as possible, you want to maximize damage output when it’s guaranteed. However, don’t extend a combo if it’s not going to put the opponent in an unfavourable position at the end of it. Simply getting a good position off a combo that’s looking risky is much better.

Experiment finding simple and reliable ways of setting up combo finishers at % that are likely to set up good edge-guards for kills. Any reliable finisher is something you need to have in your arsenal, things as simple as Uthrow followed by pivot Fsmash. Once you know what % the opponent needs to be for these reliable set ups to work, and where they need to be positioned, learn to extend your combos in ways that will either guarantee this set ups at the end, or give a good chance that you can catch them with it after finishing your combo a certain way. Be creative in the way you find all ways his tools can work. Never be very direct, as there is a lot of flexibility with his abundance of tools.

2 - Pressure

The threat of Mario comes a lot from being an agile and adaptable fortress of flexibility. What makes this side of him threatening is all the tools he has accessible when those criteria are met.

His tools for pressure are quite standard compared to the rest of the characters. He has solid hits that favour trading, along with decent range on a lot of attacks and a grab that can lead to a lot of punishment. The diversity in this tool kit is what makes it work, not the exceeding strength in one area of it over another. He has something to deal with everything, but nothing that deals with anything. This is where the precision and depth of Mario comes into play. He needs to be constantly active with the proper actions at the proper times to match his opponent accordingly. This doesn’t just apply to the transitional game, but to the way he has to maintain pressure.

Getting the first hit can be tricky. He has no way to force the opponent to act a certain way. If the opponent is moving fast around the stage, he can’t change that, if they’re covering massive areas, he can’t change that. What he has to his benefit instead, is that no matter what they’re doing, it doesn’t make it any more difficult for him to get what he wants. Because of this, he doesn’t need to change what they’re doing at all.

He may not be able to force someone to shield so he can grab them, or force them to try countering a fake approach, but if they do shield or if they do any unsafe action, he can punish them greatly, and this presence is what forces the opponent to act a certain way.

With that, the ability to use all tools accurately and properly for whatever the situation calls for is the best route. Make this the aim in a match. Find what tools you need to cover what situations, it’s that simple. This applies to all parts of the game, but it will carry a pressure aspect with it no matter where this tool discovering is made.

Once you’re familiar and comfortable using all his tools appropriately and at the necessary pace, the precision and consistency of it will in turn develop the pressure game. If each situation is acted on with the proper tools and implementation of it, without missing any of the opportunities but staying within that opportunity reach of the opponent, they will be pressured more than any forceful approach can produce. With this as the goal, since them being pressure will lead you to getting grabs, practice this to develop the precision and comfort of all possible options.

Air

Mario has a lot to offer in the space between these target goals and unique tools that can be applied in all those areas. He might be a well rounded character but he has quite a few quirks about him as well.
1 - Cape

This move will have to take a lot of experimenting on your part to fully understand how diverse and useful it is. Some simple traits are that it reflects projectiles and can be used to edge-guard by sending opponents recoveries in the opposite direction by turning them around.

On more specific and unique levels, the Cape can turn opponents around in their shield, so if you’re short hopping at them or approaching and they shield you, this eliminates your chance of getting shield grabbed and possibly minimizes their out of shield options to counter you.

When you Cape someone, their momentum actually stays altered for a brief moment after and that can translate to their next action. Always be ready to capitalize after landing a Cape as your opponents safest bet is to remain defensive even if you seem punishable, simply because of the after effects of the Cape. If they try to do any action too quickly, they can leave an easy opportunity for you.

Another unique use of the Cape is when your opponent is in hit-stun already. It can alter momentum enough to send them into worse positions if they act poorly afterwards, and it can delay them briefly in effect making them miss a tech. It deals a fair amount of damage and throws timing off in odd ways, so unique uses in timing with it during combos can lead to a lot of possibilities. It’s a diverse move with a lot of reward and very little risk if it connects, though it can take away from other guaranteed and beneficial punishments you might have if it’s used to leniently.

Become very familiar with what it does and experiment with it at all times. Once you understand how it works fully in all areas of your game, then you can decide when the ideal times for it are and how to use it with accuracy and precision the way it potentially can be used.
2 - Edge Game

A lot of his game will be played around controlling the stage, but a large part of his game will be played near the edges and off the edge. He has many options in both edge-guarding and recovering, so there is a lot of depth and flexibility to work with.

With tools to deal with almost anything, it’s ideal to set up edge-guards often, as it’s the best way to end stocks early. Since he’s capable of it, it will often be ideal to end combos early or simply try forcing the opponent offstage because he’s diversity there is so great and universal. Mario lacks ways of limiting his opponents options, so this being the best way he can, it means a lot to his game.

When edge-guarding, be very comfortable with going as far off stage as you can while still making it back after. Your aerial game and Cape are all very effective at intercepting distant recoveries along with your aerial mobility. Learn to catch opponents recovering before they have a chance at setting themselves up to recover safely. Mario is fast enough and has enough options to cover most recoveries from going off the stage himself.

From on the stage, Cape comes into play again, but he isn’t as effective in terms of making sure they don’t get back. However, when they make it to the ledge, you can continue to play the pressure game and them being limited in options from the ledge will give you plenty of chances to send them off again. Be patient here, as there’s never a need to over commit, but always be ready.

When recovering, know when which of your options are best suited over the others. He has many tools that give decent direct recovery options, but there are many ways to use them. Whether it’s trying to recover high or low, all his tools have some effect and role to play. His Down B, Cape, Up B, wall jump, air dodge and double jump give him a lot or room for adjustment. Be certain that you know all the possible ways you can get around the edge-guards you face so you can do what you need to.

Make it natural to waveland onto the stage from the ledge. It’s the safest and quickest way to regain all options and position yourself well on the stage again. His aerials and Cape from the edge along other get-up options all have their uses and moments, but wavelanding on is ideal in most situations.

Doubles

Mario has some very key tools to bring to a doubles team. He has enough diversity that he can’t be shut down by anything and can function fully against any other team. His access to quick damage output and ability to position himself in bursts are both favoured over longer combos and greater speed. These traits help him function in any situation and any diversity that he faces.

Along with having the ability to deal with anything, he has a few strengths to add to his lack of weaknesses. His edge game is good from all sides, including saving his partner. His stage control game is solid since it will force opponents to act when their room is limited. His options to set up and finish are all reliable and he has something that works on any character at any time.

Mario and Doc were both solid doubles characters in Melee and he only got better from there. Every aspect of the diversity he had was retained and strengthened. Basically he’s like two characters in one, so it’s three against two anytime he’s in a doubles match, that science for you.

Kind of TLDR/Recap

Make all of these things very comfortable to you so they’re natural options at all times.
It’s what’s required to play Mario at his fullest potential.

Technical Requirements
- Dash Dancing with JC Grabs, Pivots, Wavedashes and SH Aerials
- Approaching with Shield and Wavedashing out
- Platform Wavelanding and Ledge Cancelling
- Wall Jumping and Wavelanding on the Stage
- Have all mobility options flow together
- Cape Functions
- Know how to use all options when recovering and edge-guarding

Mental Requirements
- Being defensively solid is priority
- Stay ready to take opportunities without overextending
- Know what tools cover what
- Grab lots
- Doubles Wrecking Ball
- Don’t get hit
- Be like the Elements

Extras
- Let’s do this LEERRROOOOOYYY
- I need to do better TDLRs


This will obviously greatly benefit from spoiler tags, and will be cleaned up wonderfully once someone explains how I add them. I'll be adding my own knowledge on the character and his tools over the next few days whenever I get unlazy enough.

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WD OoS tricks tips and uses:

WD backwards > grounded Fireball is legit, I'd go as far as saying that's a very advanced maneuver that only ever really starts to be abused when the Mario player is highly experienced and developed in play.
Thing about what it covers, from everything like SH Aerial approaches against you, to keeping you grounded and safe from fly-by attacks that would generally be a good way to punish Mario for Jumping > Fireball normally, etc. It doesn't seem like much on paper, or even feel like it's amounting to much, but think about when FACING someone doing that.
Mario WD's backward and throws a Fireball along the ground at you, and starts moving up from behind it... what do you do? Attempt Power-Shielding it? Try approach him so you don't lose Stage control, but by SHing over it at him as your only option? Try throwing a Fireball over that Fireball, at him, and somehow not landing on it while yours can simply bounce over if he positions well/moves close quickly?
Something simple but not often thought of is to WD OoS after shielding something that would usually put you out of grab range. The forward WD provides you the extra distance you need to get your grab. Alternatively, if you think the opponent will recover before you have the opportunity to grab, you can use the aforementioned WD backwards fireball to crush any response.

WD'ing in and of itself is really a technique to smooth out your game. On its own it can assist some techniques (pillaring, multishining), but coupled with DD'ing, stutter stepping, WL'ing, and most other movement based techniques it can provide you with the smooth movement from the aforementioned Water section.

Edit: With a ton of incorporation of WD OoS in my general play, and a fair amount of testing the limits of its ability to net you punishes or positioning, I'd like to talk about the thought process that assists your WD OoS usage. In the spirit of recap, WD OoS can help you reposition and punish moves that would otherwise cover too much space and too many options in the neutral, like Marth's/ Roy's/ Fsmash, Ivy's Bair/ Fsmash vs Mario, and that's super handy and the more obvious use.

Knowing what moves can be punished through this convention will keep you from getting kerslapped when trying to punish moves that don't have enough recovery time to be punished. This is probably the most important part because it's what keeps your game flowing right. If you can punish that move, you get the punish. If you can't, you move away for positioning and safety. Without clear understanding of what is and isn't punishable, or the wherewithal to recognize when something isn't punishable, after having WD OoS grab not work a few times, you'll get caught up in trying to reposition when you could be taking a stock, or trying to go in to get grabbed or hit.

Knowing when to disengage is just as big, and probably takes more understanding in that, you've got to decide how worth it is to give up positioning, when to do it so you don't just get hit, and what you want to do after it. WD OoS backwards to fireball is still a viable option, though plausibly dangerous depending on who you're fighting, so not recommended as a consistent option. Often I've found backing off with WD OoS will bait an opponent to try to push their advantage, and you can snipe poorly spaced/ timed options with Ftilt/ Utilt, or things of that nature.

I'd rather avoid getting into the specifics too much, and rather have this section put the idea in your mind to familiarize yourself with this option more so, so you can keep your offensive and defensive game's moving.

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Fireballs: Fireballs function as a fantastic tool to open up your opponent for your potent combo game, but they can also function as a crutch to limit the other aspects of your game, and eventually leave you with a truncated, or lopsided grasp of Mario's tools and abilities. To start, fireballs are a tool to segue from your movement and spacing to your combo game, but more than that, they serve as a static tool with which to gauge your opponents reactions.

One thing too many newer (and many intermediate) players do is toss them out without really looking for their opponent's reactions to them, or following them (the fireballs) to capitalize. When they do result in an opening, it's often by happenstance of their approach versus their opponents default strategy, which is to say, they sit there plipping fireballs while their opponent approaches, said opponent accidentally bumps in to one, apologizes politely to the orb of flame, and then is promptly punched in the face by a surly plummer. It's not necessarily an awful strategy. It can put you on top of most of your exchanges, BUT it is predictable, and not optimized.

While fireballs are primarily good at opening up your opponent, they can serve better more cerebral players as a way to get in their opponents head. The easiest way to explain this is to give you a scenario:
For this exercise you need only watch the first stock of this match. That's 45 seconds you can spare so don't be a weeny and check it out. Now, under the presumption that you've seen it, I'd like to highlight how Strongbad uses his fireballs. Whenever he sent one on the correct trajectory to Oro, he would follow it and batter Oro's shield with a normal (when he got that far). This is an example of a good thing and a bad thing, as he was taking abuse from Oro for repeating an obvious pattern, but also conditioning Oro to expect the normal. What you'll notice is that Strongbad takes the first stock off of a grab he landed after chasing a fireball. Particularly the first grab he used directly after a fireball. This, at its core is the meta part of Mario's fireballs, which lets you analyze your opponents temperament all throughout a match, while putting yourself in minimal danger. To be on top of your Mario game is to make the adjustment Strongbad made over the course of the full first stock of that match, after the first fireball. It's very snappy and demanding, but it'll near guarantee you're advantage in the mindgames of the neutral.

While I put emphasis on fireballs utility and use all throughout a match in that last section, I'd now like to give a VERY IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER! Fireballs are as fantastic a tool as I've been proselytizing, but they can also go to SEVERELY DAMAGE YOUR DEVELOPMENT AS A PLAYER! You need to make sure that your proactive fireball usage is well thought it as it is consistent, if not more so well thought out.
The work you put into developing your fireball game means nothing if you enter auto pilot halfway through the match!
The work you put into your fireball game means nothing if you rely on it too much through out the match!

I know I'm using a lot of bold and underlining and caps lock and what have you but that's because you NEED to pay attention to this section of the fireball guide, more than any other. Not using fireballs in brain dead excess is the most important part of fireball usage. So evaluate how you use fireballs. Yourself in particular. Think about it in matches. Think about what you could use instead and then mix that in.
All of this is important because fireball has become the Mario main crutch. Too many players climb to a certain level of expertise with Mario while relying too much on fireball's latent ability. This eventually leads to a topping off at higher levels of play, where players can take advantage of excessive fireball usage and will take the match as a result. Moderation, in all things, is the key.

The bottom line is, fireballs are an AMAZING tool. But often players use them in a crass, underdeveloped fashion. They're a nice way to open your opponent up, needle them, make them swear revenge upon their slightly charred faces. But if you just put them out there without gauging the opponents reaction, without following them like your nubile children (so full of potential), without an idea of when it would be considered a bad time to do it (point blank range, with an anvil that reads "10 TONS" plummeting towards Mario's unprotected dome) you'll get dunked on by more experienced players EVERY TIME. Use them for what they're useful for. They'll yield MUCH better results.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Something that really isn't addressed or known by many in the smash community is player's individual style. I'd like to write more on the subject but I've got a final in about an hour so for now I'll leave you with my and another players ruminations, and finish this section as I find the words for it.

With both of these things, watch some vids of how others use these tools. You're relying on things within the limits of your play and not going beyond them, just like SB and everyone else. When you + SB + every Mario is literally playing the exact same character, and rarely branching into each others dynamics of how to use the tools you're all given aside from some basic WD Dmash/Dthrow > Fair stuff, it will be of value to attempt utilizing the different maneuvers and MANARISMS of different players with those same tools.
You do what you do for a reason.
SB does what he does for a reason.
Everyone does everything they do for a reason.
All of it works some of the time, find what that time is and use it, all the rest, take it out.
Chances are, somebody does something in those 'not-working-for-you' times that you can incorperate.
Purpose of vids. Use them, it will help you.
This post is damn good. Especially what you said about playing a character like other PEOPLE. I think that the metagame concerning play style is a lot more downplayed in the smash series than other fighting games. A good parallel to what your talking about is this American Street Fighter player, named PR Balrog. He is currently regarded as one of the best employers of the "play dumb" strategy. He's incredible in that he can play two matches of a set to 5 playing like himself. His pokes are calculated, footsies strong, and his game overall solid. Now you get to the third round and he begins by rushing you, as bluntly as possible. He beats a lot of players with this because he's ruining their rythm. Whatever ability they got to gauge his play is gone, and they have to quickly reaclimate to his strategy, or (in most situations), die.
This works, works ****ing WONDERS, in Project M, dualistically because of other players unfamiliarity with it, and it's effectiveness in any game that involves THINKING at odds with your opponent. It's usually a bit more complex than changing from staying back to pushing, but that outlines the concept pretty well.
So change it up! Play like a Guatemalan coke addict! (or in another fashion if you fall into that category already) Rush them, then control space, then punish, then do a jive.
But seriously, all of you, EVERY SINGLE MOUSTACHIOE'D PLUMBER, play different. Experiment. Don't let the opponent change what you're doing, but change what you're doing yourself to beat your opponent. Thine peers will thank thee.
The meta-game involving ones own play (as themselves) is even more down-played that player-vs-player meta-game, oddly.
So rarely do people give attention to their own mental contents and state of mind when playing, yet it comes FAR before any action or improvement that takes place in a game.
There's a reason the publicly view-able meta-game moved along like a slug for essentially all of 2.1, aside from a few hot-spots that never really showed up on the map, and this is a good summary of why that happened. Why some players can be playing in a 2.5 meta-game in a month, while the more active players grind themselves into conditioning. Being solid players, it breaks and molds into what's needed with time, but these steps can be skipped with a simple step backward to reflect. Hope that made sense.
1) Screw around more.
2) Take breaks.
2 of the most beneficial things towards the development of both an individuals AND a communities meta-games. Never let them slip in the learning process.
To put into more depth what you were elaborating on. First off, good examples and references to the novelty aspect of habit-breaking and habit-developing. This directly translates to gimmick-play and why someone aware of this phase can bypass it and literally excel beyond the rest of the community at ease with a new game/character/etc with this alone. It was all-too-easy, as for the most part, nothing has changed, and it takes people way longer than it should (top players included) to go through these necessary steps, simply because they don't even consider the steps to be there. It's funny.
Specifically this chunk could use touching up.
"The results of this vary from player to player. Good players don't have many patterns to begin with, so when you do point one out, they make like a tree and cut it out. (doesn't make much sense, sue me). A BAD player, or more often an inexperienced one, will do that over and over again, granting you more facepunch cookies, and brownie points for being awfully perceptive."
The difference between good players and great players is the fanciness around the fortress. All players who play with any form of regularity, or commitment, will develop a foundation to build upon. This foundation is what lets a player not have to learn everything on-the-fly from scratch every time they pick up the game. This is what solidifies a player to insure they'll do well in any and all situations. The 'Rock' of the Mario DAT thread explanation, in a way.
Building upon that is where the real dynamics of the game have to be developed. The player's own meta-game flushes out with depth, but this takes the conscious effort to break the mold, their OWN mold. It may shattered that foundation a little (make the player worse for a while) as they try to branch out, but this will only strengthen that foundation long-term, as the kinks are worked out.
Think of it this way. The meta-game won't change to adjust to how floaties like Jiggs/Peach play, unless Jiggs/Peach develop in meta-game. Someone has to BREAK the mold, and make these characters work the way we KNOW they CAN work. Not the way people generally think it, but without interpretations, how easy it is to see their game-play at a top level, even when not applied. This same thing applies to new characters introduced in new games. It's easy to see the future of the meta-game, but you can't just see this if you haven't developed your ABILITY to see this. You can BREAK the mold of your OWN meta-game, if you haven't tried (actually given attention to) developing your meta-game. You can't develop your meta-game if you haven't practiced meta-game-development.
Work on getting better before all else.
**** yourself up, because that's the only way you'll ever break ahead of yourself/others. You could play to what you are already aware of, expecting that playing within your current limits that way to excel you beyond them... Or instead, you could play with your awareness, being aware of your play so you can find something that will bring you beyond your current play/awareness limits.
Mind over matter. In all things. Smash included.
"Think of method as a fine silvery stream, not a raging waterfall. It will go meandering here, trickling there. It will find the groves, the cracks, and the crevices. Just follow it, never let it out of your sight, and it will take you."
Piece, of, cake.
 
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GeZ

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Glad it helped! It's going to get some additions and polish over the coming days so keep checking in!
 

uCooL

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I'm making this thread to help out all of the Mario mains I see desperately flailing about in all threads on the Mario forums. Instead of taking bad advice from people who don't know the character well enough, I urge you to direct your attention, study, practice, and questions, here.
Thanks for making this thread man, great read! I have two questions for you

1.Can you recommend any good resources / tips on how to handle a good sheik? I have basic technical techniques down: wavedash, wavedash OoS, SHFF L cancelled aerials, ect.

2. I fought a ganon the other day who kept side-bing to either d-smash or wizard kick. (depending if i teched in place or rolled.)
I was able to mix it up and not get hit by the d-smash or wizard kick all the time, but one of those semi-auto combos and its 40 added percent. fire balls don't stop ganons side-b...so any tips would be appreciated.
 

GeZ

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Fireballs won't stop Ganon's Flame Choke of he's already too close to you, as they'll hit him as he grabs you. Flame choke is pretty easy to bait out though and is really punishable. Try WDing out of the way and then punishing. I don't have much experience with Sheik so I'd recommend cape'ing needles when you can and avoiding them otherwise. Sheik has a very good ledge game so bait her getting up and be patient. Bairs will still set up gimps at the usual percents.
 

PillsBuryDopeBoy

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I'm making this thread to help out all of the Mario mains I see desperately flailing about in all threads on the Mario forums. Instead of taking bad advice from people who don't know the character well enough, I urge you to direct your attention, study, practice, and questions, here.
This was actually very informative and really well written. And as a Mario main myself, I greatly appreciate all the work that went into this. I also have a question regarding Mario.

I have a friend who play's a extremely good marth, and the problem im facing is that no matter what I do, I just can't seem to beat him. Im trying to analyze and adapt to his playstyle but the end result is just the same. So what are some tip's and tricks I can use to beat marth. GeZ-Senpai, I need your knowledge :C
 

xXDarkRisingXx

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I'm also a Mario main and I just happen to have vs a few good marth players today online. Play defensively and keep the fight on the ground. Marth will kill u in air combat. Try cape stalling and a few grabs and dash dancing. You can easily gimp his b up when timed right. Marth ground attack are fast and the dancing blade and shield breaker is a b****. But he lag on the ground. Just pay attention To his ground atack and punish the blue haired princess. Wave dashingand down air baiting with short hop fire balls and caping could help out. Oh by the way, he's not very hard to edge guard If you cape him and shot fire balls to set him up near the ledge. just watch out for counter. Back Air helps alot too if spaced right. This is how I play Marth on both basic brawl and pm and it works wonders with my play style.. Stick to the ground use fireballs as both a retreat and an approach. for the marths the spam counter. Just grab him. I hope this helps.
 
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PillsBuryDopeBoy

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I'm also a Mario main and I just happen to have vs a few good marth players today online. Play defensively and keep the fight on the ground. Marth will kill u in air combat. Try cape stalling and a few grabs and dash dancing. You can easily gimp hmm his b up with timed right. Martha ground attack are fast and the dancing blade and shield breaker is a b****. But he hag on the ground. Just pay attention To his ground atack and punish the blue haired princess. Wave dashingand down air baiting with short hop fire balls and caping could help out. Oh by the way, he's not very hard to edge guard If you cape him and shot fire balls to set him up near the ledge. just watch out for counter. Back Ayr helps alout too if spaced right. This is how I play Marth on both basic brawl and pm and it works wonders with my play style.. Stick to the ground use fireballs as both a retreat and an approach. for the marts the spam counter. Just grab him. I hope this helps.
"Blue haired princess" x3. But seriously though thanks, I need every piece of info on how to beat marth, and the info that you gave is going to really help with that.
 

deadjames

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Thanks for making this thread man, great read! I have two questions for you

1.Can you recommend any good resources / tips on how to handle a good sheik? I have basic technical techniques down: wavedash, wavedash OoS, SHFF L cancelled aerials, ect.

2. I fought a ganon the other day who kept side-bing to either d-smash or wizard kick. (depending if i teched in place or rolled.)
I was able to mix it up and not get hit by the d-smash or wizard kick all the time, but one of those semi-auto combos and its 40 added percent. fire balls don't stop ganons side-b...so any tips would be appreciated.
Zone against Sheik, try your best not to let her get in, otherwise just do general Mario stuff, also her weight is such that it's very hard for her to escape dthrow to Doc punch, so exploit that when you can. As for Ganon I happen to be extremely well versed in that MU because my training partner is a Ganon main, both of those 50-50 situations from Ganon can be avoided by not teching the Flame Choke but simply DIing behind Ganon, you'll be safe from literally every follow-up that Ganon can do from a grounded Flame Choke, now an aerial one is another story, that pretty much forces you into a 50-50 situation, however some characters have a good enough tech roll to evade the dsmash, the ones I know for sure are Luigi, Ike, and Sheik.
 

uCooL

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Zone against Sheik, try your best not to let her get in, otherwise just do general Mario stuff, also her weight is such that it's very hard for her to escape dthrow to Doc punch, so exploit that when you can. As for Ganon I happen to be extremely well versed in that MU because my training partner is a Ganon main, both of those 50-50 situations from Ganon can be avoided by not teching the Flame Choke but simply DIing behind Ganon, you'll be safe from literally every follow-up that Ganon can do from a grounded Flame Choke, now an aerial one is another story, that pretty much forces you into a 50-50 situation, however some characters have a good enough tech roll to evade the dsmash, the ones I know for sure are Luigi, Ike, and Sheik.
if i DI behind ganon on a grounded flame choke, can he still hit me with a reverse wizard kick?

Thanks for all the info!
 

deadjames

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if i DI behind ganon on a grounded flame choke, can he still hit me with a reverse wizard kick?

Thanks for all the info!
I don't think so, but Idk none of the three Ganon players in my area actually utilize that tech.
 

deadjames

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I think they added that in 3.0 for ganon and falcon, they probably aren't aware of it yet.
Well my partner that I train with knows about it, he just feels that it's pretty useless. Personally, I do too, whenever I play Ganon or Falcon I usually end up reversing by accident and either SD'ing or giving my opponent a free edge-guard opportunity.
 

uCooL

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Well my partner that I train with knows about it, he just feels that it's pretty useless. Personally, I do too, whenever I play Ganon or Falcon I usually end up reversing by accident and either SD'ing or giving my opponent a free edge-guard opportunity.
Well good to know some ganons don't like it then. Thanks!
 

xXDarkRisingXx

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great to have more Mario players. Mario is a fun character to play with. welcome to the mushroom kingdom fellow mario player. Lol[/quote]
 

yellowdee

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Cool thread! I looked at your neat guide and noticed there was a section devoted to the cape and not the fireball. Are you going to add one for that move? If so, I found a strategy that nobody appears to be doing in their videos or talking about in the threads: retreating fireballs!

You dash away from your opponent, shorthop, then very slightly tilt your control stick back, trying to maintain all of your retreating momentum. Press B and, lo and behold, you are now an extra three Mario lengths away from your opponent with a fireball in between! Rinse and repeat... they can't keep up! Even if they power shield or reflect your fireballs, jump over them, etc., you have the necessary extra time and space to think of what to do next.

I haven't played officially high-ranking opponents, but I've used this strategy against people who would normally beat me and get extremely impressive results. With these opponents, Ive found that they like to be either in your face or at midrange. Having a quick and dirty retreating mixup like this seems to tear them apart!
 

GeZ

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Using fireballs backwards when you short hop away is something I use too, but Mario is not a character for zoning. It's better to employ that as a tool to get yourself out of pressure, so you can engage your opponent when it's advantageous to you. A good trick with fireballs is to WD backward OoS and fireball. Its got a deceptive amount of coverage. I'll post the snippets of conversation I've had on it in a sec.

Edit:
Updated the OP with some WD OoS uses and will continue to add to that section over time.
 
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xXDarkRisingXx

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Using fireballs backwards when you short hop away is something I use too, but Mario is not a character for zoning. It's better to employ that as a tool to get yourself out of pressure, so you can engage your opponent when it's advantageous to you. A good trick with fireballs is to WD backward OoS and fireball. Its got a deceptive amount of coverage. I'll post the snippets of conversation I've had on it in a sec.

Edit:
Updated the OP with some WD OoS uses and will continue to add to that section over time.
Interesting i never though of wd oos with fire balls. Im goung to master this
 

Hinichii.ez.™

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This must be bumped, for all the lil youngins who ask daddy ez for guidance!
 

GeZ

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I just get tired of the infinite Mario mains who just started playing this game and post matches asking how well they play and which button is the jump button.
 

Hinichii.ez.™

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I just get tired of the infinite Mario mains who just started playing this game and post matches asking how well they play and which button is the jump button.
Show me how to jab, just like u SENPAI
 

Zizzy

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Just wanted to thank you for this guide. I go back to it every now and then to help refocus my Mario mentality. I always come out a little more solid.
 

GeZ

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To celebrate this threads recent pinning (thank you @TheReflexWonder !) I've added a (kind of) extensive section on fireball usage that I think Mario mains will greatly benefit from. Whenever you see this, and have a minute, check the OP (near the bottom) for the new addition, and feel free to ask questions on anything you think I wasn't clear enough on or things you need clarification for.
 

Ben Hicks

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Any tips for shield pressure? Safe approach other than SH fireball? Having some trouble approaching and getting block grabbed. Nair is def not safe os.
 

Hinichii.ez.™

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Any tips for shield pressure? Safe approach other than SH fireball? Having some trouble approaching and getting block grabbed. Nair is def not safe os.
Cross up nair and dair are very good options.
 

Ben Hicks

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Yeah the Nair os gets me block grabbed every time. I have been workling Lcanceled dair to jab os. The jab interupts the block grab pretty well, but if you miss the L cancel you are going for a ride.
 

deadjames

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I'm pretty sure dair has auto-cancel frames, but I could be wrong.
 

Ben Hicks

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Can anyone confirm the above? I have seen Gallo likes to come in behind the SH fireball w dtilt or jab 1-2 dtilt. I need work this in.
 

Hinichii.ez.™

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Can anyone confirm the above? I have seen Gallo likes to come in behind the SH fireball w dtilt or jab 1-2 dtilt. I need work this in.
Well, I guess it depends on the sheild values, to know if it's safe. You should go fair nair to jab instead. Fireball to dtilt is usually safe, if you space the dtilt.
 

LandonRobinson

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Great guide, go back to it once a week to check in. Have definitely evolved my fireball and combo game as a result.
 

GeZ

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Glad this guide has helped so many people, but remember to thank Nausicaa as he wrote most of this guide. I just moved it from the old forums to here, and added a few smaller, more in depth on specific tech, sections at the bottom.
 
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