Strategies for Approaching

[Downshift]

I want to keep this specific only to strategies and techs for Zelda to be the one to get in on an opponent; something she's traditionally struggled with since they made her into half a character by removing Sheik. (yes, still mad)

- One of the more useful things I try earlier in the meta before people figure it out is to charge Phantom and then dash in for a grab while they're shielding in anticipation for the Phantom's delayed release. Since Zelda gets so much off of Dthrow, conditioning them to shield in this way can lead into a good portion of her damaging and KO combos.

- Another way to do this is utilizing the new "Jump+Attack" button mechanic and dash in for a lightning kick. It can be safe if the opponent isn't expecting it and if timed/spaced correctly. Once they do get onto you using this while dashing at them you can dash grab instead and again go into Dthrow combos. I'm not sure how soon people are gonna find a way to counter this approach, but it's brought be a lot of success in the early goings.

- The reliable FastFall Nair from Sm4sh still seems to work well in Ultimate as well. Feels like it has a bit more hitstun as well, but I don't know yet.

- I've also noticed that Ftilt seems to have more range and can even outrange Marcina's Ftilts. Endlag prevents any immediate follow ups, but it can put the into disadvantage if their percent is high enough.

Dtilt seems to have less range or damage or something in Ultimate. Can't use it to poke well or lead into Ftilt or grab at all. So that really sucks.


Anyone else find any ways for Zelda to actually be the aggressor in matches?

 

[NotSoAsian]

People seem to be absolutely terrified of Phantom. If somebody is playing campy or dash dancing away from you you can use Phantom to get them to come in or make them jump then you force them to go where you want them to be. Running F-tilt is also a good way to aggressively poke.

 

[Aussie1024]

I like to use the short hop lightning kick you mentioned. It catches my opponent off guard. I like the Phantom and grab approach you are suggesting as well. People are already expecting the Phantom to come and attack so it could make them vulnerable to a grab. I need to try out F-Tilt more. That and U-Tilt seem to have a good amount of range.

I enjoy the suggestions you made. I've been meaning to lab her and see what other tools I can use to approach with her. I can post anything on here I find. Hopefully the results come back positive.

 

[ZSel]

Out of the 100 games I did so far here are the good approaches I figuered it out.

- If you get time to charge a down b, you should do it it's really good and you can play on reaction of your opponent. Go for a forward grab that can connect into the slash of the phantom knight or if you read that they will jump just catch them with Nair which has a really good range or even fair. But you can get a good stage control if you don't *** it up.
Usually to counter this people just go back if they see they'll be out of range so be ready for that sometimes you can move a bit and charge another down B.
If you manage to hit them with the fist of the phantom, it depend of the percent but you often get a techchase situation so it's reaaally usefull to let go the phtantom before if you feel so.

- One of the most successful one is the dash attack which is so good. Use it to punish people who abuse aerials attacks, generally sword characers like chrom / roy and stuff. Just mix it up with running boost grab and you can be annoying for your opponent.

- Running tilts are very good as long as you use that sliding tech where you press back on your controller before using the tilt, whose leffen talked about. if you get a dtilt you can usually do a dash attack after. Ftilt has a great range and send far if you want some safe plan. And uptilt is one of the best combo starter for Zelda I think and has a decent range. If you can get a uptilt on a heavy they're fcked. At high percent you can even do uptilt into Up B.

- I don't really like Nair approaches coz it's slow and you get just traded easily by all those range character like marth chrom, but also those heavy (DK, Bowser) Basically every character with a big fair range or a fast character that can dash dance your nair easily with his speed will punish you (by example cloud you get hell punished). I guess it can be good vs floaty character tho like Peach or Puff, but ye really be carefull who is against you when you want approach with it.

- I also like running close to them and shielding do bait an attack. Then when they hit the shield I instant fair out of shield which is safe and super fast. Just buffer the button when you get hit. It's soo good.

- Less successful but to keep in mind if you see them in range of your up b and sleeping on you or starting to throw a projectile, just up b them horizontally. It's really fast and give you stage control if you see an opportunity, do it.

That's about it for my experience ^^

 

[JigglyZelda003]

I still believe approaching with parry into grab, utilt, or jab is going to be gold in matchups against opponents who are going to force Zelda to approach.

One of the more useful things I try earlier in the meta before people figure it out is to charge Phantom and then dash in for a grab while they're shielding in anticipation for the Phantom's delayed release. Since Zelda gets so much off of Dthrow, conditioning them to shield in this way can lead into a good portion of her damaging and KO combos.

- Another way to do this is utilizing the new "Jump+Attack" button mechanic and dash in for a lightning kick. It can be safe if the opponent isn't expecting it and if timed/spaced correctly. Once they do get onto you using this while dashing at them you can dash grab instead and again go into Dthrow combos. I'm not sure how soon people are gonna find a way to counter this approach, but it's brought be a lot of success in the early goings.

It's probably people unused to seeing phantom but someone not afraid is either going to jump over seeing you approach or in my case just not deal with phantom and wait for Zelda's follow up. So this is only going to work for a little while on people giving Zelda too much play space.

I fought a Zelda who tried to lead with kicks but after the first surprise or two I dont see SHLKs working in the long run for great approaches.

- I've also noticed that Ftilt seems to have more range and can even outrange Marcina's Ftilts. Endlag prevents any immediate follow ups, but it can put the into disadvantage if their percent is high enough.

Is this true or is it we can still hit Marcina's sword because the sword is a hurtbox and ftilt is trancendant? I dont think approaching with ftilt is good since it feels like the speed buffs they gave it in smash4 they took back and its dodgeable on reaction again.

Dtilt seems to have less range or damage or something in Ultimate. Can't use it to poke well or lead into Ftilt or grab at all. So that really sucks.

Knockback has changed still has dash grab and fair at low percents but it's not a good combo tool anymore mostly a "get back" move. Lol

 

[staindgrey]

It's probably people unused to seeing phantom but someone not afraid is either going to jump over seeing you approach or in my case just not deal with phantom and wait for Zelda's follow up. So this is only going to work for a little while on people giving Zelda too much play space.

Yeah, I think that's what's going on from my experience as well. I've had by far the best results online with Zelda, and I think it's in large part due to people simply underestimating her or not understanding her. It feels too easy to scare them with Phantom and score a SH Fair.

As the meta develops and more people get experience playing against the new and improved Zelda, Phantoms and Heels are going to hit a lot less.

 

[StoicPhantom]

Is this true or is it we can still hit Marcina's sword because the sword is a hurtbox and ftilt is trancendant? I dont think approaching with ftilt is good since it feels like the speed buffs they gave it in smash4 they took back and its dodgeable on reaction again.

I'm not entirely sure on Marcina specifically but it does have quite a lot of range now. I managed to outrange a Gannon jab and I think Chrom's stuff as well. I don't think its transcendent though but I guess I don't know for sure given its lag I don't use it much.

Yeah, I think that's what's going on from my experience as well. I've had by far the best results online with Zelda, and I think it's in large part due to people simply underestimating her or not understanding her. It feels too easy to scare them with Phantom and score a SH Fair.

As the meta develops and more people get experience playing against the new and improved Zelda, Phantoms and Heels are going to hit a lot less.

Unfortunately this is happening even online. Everyone in Elite is acutely aware of Phantom and its capabilities. It's still doable but needs an extra step ahead of your opponent. I find the bigger problem is the sweet-spots on her moves. Elite is pretty much full of all the broken characters in the game and some of them have the mobility to DI and avoid the sweet-spot. I had to KO a Greninja earlier with Nair because he would not stop moving long enough for Fair or really any of her KO moves to even have a ghost of a chance.

 

[McKnightlíght]

Never approach

 

[Dcas]

Like bjr with mechakoopa, the think is to try and always keep a phantom on stage. Sure as people gets to know the Mu better itll be harder but still, a midstage phantom covers almost all options, if they jump you just approach with falling uair, dash grab or dash atack, just very quick characters or small characters seems to cause troubles, besides those zelda covers almost everything.

Dash dancing + utilt seems to be pretty safe and covers a lot of options, dashing away and ftilt also covers a lot since that move functions like a sword, lots of range and good power ( a bit of lag tho). Drifting the fair is a good option approaching and is particularly usefull against tall/large characters since the sweetspot can be very easy to land. The initial dash speed of zelda is excelent so using a lot of dashes is key in neutral along with always timing your phantom in different ways so your oponen cannot read which are you using.

And finally, always always try to grab and condition your opponent to shield since zelda gets a lot out of her grabs, dthrow to utilts or nair + bair gets easily some 30-40% or put them in a awkward place, upthrow in mid percents is guaranteed into up air ( heavy weights can eat even 2 of them) and at high percents you can kill with bthrow or condition them with upthrow+up B/ uair.

TLDR: when playing agasinst very fast characters, play zelda as a swordie with ftitl, utilt, nair and fair (even neutral B) when playing against slower characters, abuse zeldas excelent throw game and zoning (also her edgeguarding is incredible).