Official Stage Discussion for Ike

[Rango the Mercenary]

Meta-Knight may be the only character it's okay to take Duck Hunt to since you might survive just a little longer against his combos if you are hit. It's also a preferred pick against Sonic since you can make use of the tree and bush to land against him. Otherwise, you're better off going to any of the neutrals and maybe even Lylat on occasion. Really depends on how combo-heavy or campy your opponent is.

 

[GhostUrsa]

With all the changes to Ike and to the game in general, I'd like to take some time and clean up the info I have on the lookup info in the first post. I fear that it is currently out of date with the original assessments and recommended match up advice, and with my long hiatus don't feel comfortable trying to tweak it solo. Fellow Ikes, how do you feel Ike has changed in our previously covered stages? Any new MUs we should take/avoid to those stages? Before we cover anything new, I'd like to make sure our current base of info is as accurate as possible.

 

[san.]

Ike can combo better with dthrow->nair->followup below platforms. Combos involving platforms are more creative. Even so, the changes don't cause any drastic changes to the gameplan.

I also like to play on FD nowadays.

With all the changes to Ike and to the game in general, I'd like to take some time and clean up the info I have on the lookup info in the first post. I fear that it is currently out of date with the original assessments and recommended match up advice, and with my long hiatus don't feel comfortable trying to tweak it solo. Fellow Ikes, how do you feel Ike has changed in our previously covered stages? Any new MUs we should take/avoid to those stages? Before we cover anything new, I'd like to make sure our current base of info is as accurate as possible.

It's ok! I meant to update the guide like a year ago.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Wrote up a few stage notes for a few of Ike's bad matchups. Feel free to take a look.

Cloud

Spoiler

Best or good stages:
-Final Destination
-Town & City
-Smashville

Worst stages:
-Lylat Cruise (Ban)
-Battlefield
-Dream Land

Cloud has heavy advantage on platform stages due to his ability to juggle you on a moment's notice. The Uairs cover the platform length, while his dash and air speed allow him to catch you at any given moment, even going as far as to chase you off-stage just to continue the attack. Flat stages do not give him this advantage, which Town & City in particular has inconsistent platforms. The best part is that Cloud can only kill off the top at later percentages thanks to the recent patch, while Ike is the one with a glaring advantage - UThrow Fair will kill Cloud off the top after 105%.

Duck Hunt is not included as the knowledge here is limited. I never play Cloud on this stage, but perhaps someone can answer. It comes down to the flat stage benefitting us vs. Cloud gaining juggle advantage on the trees and the bush in case of knockdown.

Pikachu

Spoiler

Best or good stages:
Smashville
Town & City
Final Destination

Worst stages:
Lylat Cruise (ban)
Battlefield

It goes without saying that Lylat Cruise must be banned when fighting Pikachu. He has too much platform leverage here with QA cancels. On top of that, Ike has no advantage on Lylat as he can SD when recovering to the ledge.

Battlefield gives Pikachu QA cancels, and also easier confirms into Thunder on the top platform.

In personal experience, I have taken a game off of Esam on Dream Land, which he banned in our second set. I feel Pikachu does not have the QA leverage, while on FD and flat stages, it comes down to simply shielding and jab-punishing his QA approaches. Pikachu doesn't seem to be as good as catching landings as Sonic, Cloud, Mega Man, or Mario, as he prefers to simply attack you on the ledge. Flat stages take away one of his offense options.

Mario

Spoiler

Best Stage:
Smashville

Okay stages:
Town & City
Final Destination

Bad stage:
Dream Land

Worst stage:
Lylat Cruise

There's no easy way to slice it. Mario is going to be a thorn in our side. In the neutral, Mario is coming out at us swinging or rolling behind us for free grabs. What we can do is eliminate the problems.

For starters, FLUDD can be a serious killer if we don't recover well. To deal with this, pick Smashville. The difference here is you have a floaty platform to escape to if you pop your recovery too early. FLUDD will land you safely onto that platform. The other thing is having a platform to land on. Since Mario loves to catch landings with USmash, landing on that platform will force him to approach other methods. And speaking of other methods, this usually includes popping safe Uairs, Bairs, and even Dair - all of which can be defeated with Counter. The best part is, since you're on a platform, he's less likely to attempt a grab, thus limiting his options greatly.

Dream Land, and perhaps Battlefield by juncture, is troublesome. He gets additional spots to land combos on. DThrow into Uair is a pain, but can be escaped. Giving him the platforms gives him more legroom to stop, rest for a frame, and then add more damage to the mix. Mario is also a huge fan of landing with safe aerials for free, and going to platform stages gives him those options. While we still have the advantage of landing away from his USmash, he can pile on the damage faster if he catches the grab.

On Final Destination, you're left with no Smashville platform and he can catch landings with USmash. Never bother challenging this. He will beat Nair and Bair. Your best bet is to go for the ledge or Quick Draw away from him if you have the space to do so. The good news is he can't pop the extra-damaging Uair combos. So if you're good at mixing up your recoveries and FLUDD isn't your problem, this might be a better stage.

As for Lylat, he has platform combos and Lylat in general is just bad for Ike. However, it's hard to tell with most players because most players simply hate Lylat, so it goes without saying the player might not even go there. However, if he does, this matchup will fare poorly for Ike. That being said, it's up to you if you want to risk going to Lylat or banning one of the other platform stages.

And for Town & City, half FD, half platforms. He can get platform combos if he hits you up there, but you also have the FD neutral advantage. This proves to have no TRUE advantage to Mario, so it's worth going to.

Rosalina & Luma

Spoiler

Best stages:
Final Destination
Smashville

Worst stages:
Town & City (ban)
Dream Land

Unlike Cloud, who recently got a nerfed Uair, Rosalina's Uair is still much of a kill move under 100%. On a low ceiling, like T&C, this bodes poorly for us. The only advantage we're given on T&C is that half of the stage is flat, which allows us to fight her without fear of the juggle only when the platforms are gone.

Platform stages in general aren't our cup of tea in this matchup. However, between the two, Battlefield is a better choice for us as the higher ceiling can be a potential saving grace for us. Otherwise, she can utilize walk-off Bair on platforms and simply catch our landings each and every time.

On stages such as FD and SV, we can attack her attempts to catch our landing, and moreso if the Luma is gone. Her attacks don't go quite the same distance as Mario's USmash, so it's entirely possible to land safely if we're thrown upward. Furthermore, it's easier to get a free dash attack if we launch Rosa and the Luma simultaneously. Smashville only grieves us if the Luma lands on the platform. But it still provides more safety than platform stages.

Sonic

Spoiler

Best stages:
Battlefield
Dream Land

Even stages:
Smashville
Town & City

Worst stages:
Final Destination (ban)
Duck Hunt

Possible interest:
Lylat Cruise

Ban FD immediately. Sonic's single biggest strength against Ike is his ability to catch landings. Anytime we're in the air, he can get us, which is exactly what Sonic will do to build damage. If you're forced to go to Duck Hunt, make use of the bush and the tree to land against him so as not to land into a grab.

The fight is not quite as polarizing as against some of Ike's other bad matchups. Smashville breaks even because it's a flat stage, but it also provides a mobile platform we can use to land on. Town & City also breaks even as it, too, is a flat stage with platforms. The difference being it has a lower ceiling, which Sonic players will use to fish for UThrow Uair combos.

Battlefield and Dream Land give us the most defense against Sonic's ability to catch landings. We land on them and patiently make our way back to the main platform. Sonic does not gain much advantage on platform stages, while it can minimize some of his approach and landing options on us.

It is also worth trying Lylat Cruise in the future to see if it can grant us advantage. Three platforms to stop Sonic's ability to catch landing, as well as a shorter stage and less room to dash around in, could help us. In personal experience, I have played doubles against a double Sonic team that had full advantage on us the entire set. The one game we took was on Lylat, where their gameplan was completely destroyed. But it is more worth trying Lylat in friendlies first, and to ALWAYS recover high so you are not gimped by the stage's poor ledges.

Diddy Kong

Spoiler

Okay stages:
Battlefield
Dream Land

Bad stages:
Final Destination

Worst stage:
Smashville (ban)

I feel this will come down to limited discussion to be edited later. I faced a few matches against Dyr. He told me Ike does better on platform stages against Diddy. I lost to C3PO at Pound on Smashville and Town & City, taking one game off of him on Dream Land. We hold more advantage because he needs to be more precise with Banana placement on platform stages, which gives us more landing options.

While Diddy loves to catch our landings, he is not as lethal with it as Mario. The reason Final Destination is a better choice for us is because it does not provide a safe floating platform Diddy to escape to when we start edgeguarding him. Edgeguarding is core for finishing Diddy Kong, and Final Destination helps us in this case.

I was also told Diddy players tend to avoid Lylat Cruise as it messes up his autocancel frames. It gives us more places to land safely and away from the Banana, so it is at least worth experimenting with should we ever come across Diddy Kong in bracket.

Meta-Knight

Spoiler

Good stages:
Battlefield
Smashville

Okay stages:
Dream Land
Duck Hunt

Bad stages:
Town & City
Final Destination

Despite the fact that Meta-Knight is strong with Uairs into Up B combo, it doesn't start with Uair for the most part. It starts with dash attack. MK's dash attack has one of the largest and fastest hitboxes of all dash attacks in the game. It is very hard to avoid. Moreover, the character is VERY fast, which allows him to catch our landings while trying to recover. Landing on a platform is a better option for us, since his Uair hitbox is limited, fairly small, and doesn't guarantee an elevator combo.

Having the lowest ceiling in the stage picks, Town & City is also not an optimal choice. Whereas his elevator combo might not kill you on other stages, it's almost guaranteed on T&C. The saving grace is that there are platforms to safely land on during certain parts of the stage, so it ends up becoming a half-and-half game, monitoring the stage to determine whether to escape to the ledge or to a platform.

Battlefield works for us, as it has platforms. This gives us more places to escape to if we're launched. Smashville can be sort of 50-50, as half of it is flat, but we can almost always use the platform to land on, as well as save us in case Meta-Knight begins attempting to gimp us.

If you ban FD, be prepared to go to Duck Hunt. On the bright side, you have a bush, a tree, and a dog that can cover your landing.

Little Mac

Spoiler

Best stages:
Battlefield
Dream Land

Okay stages:
Smashville

Bad stages:
Town & City

Worst stage:
Final Destination

It wasn't until recently that I learned a tip from another player. Camp the platforms as much as you can and timeout Little Mac. While it may seem like a lame strategy, when faced against a character who cleanly beats us in neutral, is nigh impossible to punish on block, armors through our attacks, lunges past our reach, covers our landings, and can 0-to-death us with DTilt, DTilt, KO Punch, it goes without saying you need to use every trick in the book. It's completely fair and appropriate to use any strategy, no matter how lame, to beat this character.

In this case, any stage with platforms is optimal. Battlefield and Dream Land come to mind because they have the top platform, which Little Mac struggles to reach us on. This can also be used for sneak attacks, such as dropping down to grab him and prepare throw setups and combos.

Smashville is okay because, while it's flat, the platform saves us and also gives us setups to use.

Town & City doesn't work as well for us because, not only do our safety platforms disappear, but he can use the platforms to recover as a mixup option. In addition, the low blast zone does us no favors as he has kill confirms using DTilt and Rising Uppercut.

It goes without saying that Final Destination needs to be banned. No platforms to escape to, and full neutral advantage against us.

Other possibilities lie in Lylat Cruise. Despite being low platforms for free USmashes and UTilts, they're still an escape option and can mess up his positioning with moves, like Jolt Haymaker, thanks to the leaning properties of the stage. It also benefits us as we may have an easier time DTilting the 2-frame or past the ledge while he recovers, which is a free kill.

So overall, platform stages good, flat stages bad.

R.O.B.

Spoiler

Good stages:
Battlefield

Okay stages:
Final Destination
Smashville

Bad stages:
Dream Land
Town & City
Lylat Cruise

R.O.B. is a highly volatile matchup for us due to his unpredictability. He is a large character with a fast, disjointed aerial (Fair) and moves, like Nair, that outrange most of our abilities and comes out fairly fast, as well as autocancels when landed properly. He has a Gyro that he can use to catch landings with, Robo Beam to catch landings and aerials with, and can use the Gyro to setup ledge combos with USmash and even Dair spike us. R.O.B. is by no means unbeatable, but some of the stage choice are, as I've said before, volatile.

He is a character who can catch platform landings with Uair, yet moves slowly. Battlefield is an optional choice, as the blast zone is higher, avoiding the dreaded "beep-boop" DThrow to Uair kill confirm at higher percents. It also allows us to survive longer against his UThrow on the platform. However, Dream Land has a slightly lower blast zone. On top of that, R.O.B. players can utilize Whispy Woods to nab stocks quickly. They can either take a stock advantage or rely on the 50-50 and simply UThrow you to death with the help of the wind. They can also do this on Smashville while the platform is retreating, though it's much easier to avoid.

Final Destination does not give you platforms to land on. Moreover, he has more approach options, such as landing with Nair. And with no platforms, that's more opportunities to spit the Gyro out on a single throw and catch your landing.

Town & City seems to be their optimal stage. Half of it is FD, but they utilize the low blast zone for earlier kills using their DThrow-Uair kill confirm. They can also use the platforms for more landing options.

Lylat Cruise in general is just bad for us. R.O.B. players know this. Meanwhile, they don't seem to have any disadvantages, and will use the stage to their advantage. They also have access to platforms for UThrow kills.

R.O.B. makes it interesting because it seems most stages seem to take something away from him as well, whether it's catching landings or earlier kill confirms. It's hard to tell which stage to ban, though I think we will do better on Town & City, as it's closer to a neutral ground, than Lylat Cruise, which is wonky for us and does us no favors. It's worth experimenting on lesser-used stages, like Duck Hunt. If they ban Battlefield, your best options are Smashville, Final Destination, or Dream Land. If you can avoid the SD grab kill from the wind and manage to stay grounded, it can work to your advantage as he'll have less landing options of his own.

Wario

Spoiler

Best stages:
Battlefield
Dream Land

Okay stages:
Smashville
Town & City

Bad stages:
Final Destination
Duck Hunt

Wario is a classic example of a character we beat on platform stages and lose to on flat stages. Platform stages give him less approach and landing options. He also can't catch our landings with Wario Bike or USmash. Flat stages give him more legroom using his bike and more room to run around, camp, and bait our approaches with. Town & City is a non-factor, as Wario has no noteworthy ceiling kills. Waft kills us sideways, not upwards, and his Uair clap is nowhere near as strong as it was in Brawl. It is a move made only for damage now.

The specifics are scant because you're playing Wario the same on every stage. Baiting his approaches and punishing harshly with retreating Nair, retreating Bair, pivot FTilts, and pivot grabs.

Bayonetta

Spoiler

Best stages:
Battlefield
Town & City
Dream Land

Good stages:
Smashville

Okay stages:
Final Destination

Worst stage:
Lylat Cruise

The simple difference in stages here is two things. One, Bayonetta can use Afterburner Kick downwards more leniently on a flat stage than a platform stage. The other is lower ceilings, like Town & City, do us no favor against her infamous Witch Twist combos.

I have yet to see a Bayonetta kill someone right off the bat of a platform due to them landing on it. While Witch Twist can catch some platforms, we have a Counter. Moreover, it doesn't always guarantee a kill. Platform stages may limit her use of Afterburner Kick to dive in on us.

I don't feel Bayonetta is any more of a threat on Final Destination and Battlefield besides that, though. However, if anything, she is one of the best landing catchers in the game, abusing the giant hitbox and fast, deceptive animation of Heel Slide. Smashville does us a favor by giving us a platform to land on.

As far as stage bans go, the way I see it, the single saving grace against Bayonetta is that we can confirm kills with UThrow Fair against her. There is no better stage to do that on than Town & City due to the smaller blast zones. So it works both ways.

Lylat Cruise offers us no advantage, and is very possible for Bayonetta to kill us at within the 40% margin.

Looking across the roster, I feel platform stages are our best bet 9 times out of 10. I feel we don't perform as well on platform stages against Cloud, Rosalina, and possibly Corrin and Fox as well due to their ability to juggle us, as well as their reliance on Uair for kill moves. It is crucial to know who you're fighting and what stages to pick when using Ike, as he has no "home stage" that can't be used against him by another character.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Alright, time for some re-evaluating, 2018 style.

Ban FD: Lucas, Sonic
Ban Smashville: Captain Falcon, Roy, Mega Man, Rosalina
Ban Triplats: Cloud, Bayonetta

Shorthand version:

Lucas and Sonic can catch landings. Lucas can infinite you on FD. This gets taken away when there's a platform involved. Any other stage, including Town & City, is better.

Smashville is gimmick heaven for several characters. Captain Falcon can use the platform for extended combos, while Roy and Mega Man have tech that can end your stock extremely quickly via platform. Rosalina will use the platform to camp Luma on.

Triplats is horrible vs. Cloud. He can Uair juggle you on the platforms. You have nowhere to land. And Bayonetta can do a reset loop to exploit your landing after a short combo, continuing it on from the reset, and ending with the kill.

I will certainly add more when I have the time. Diddy and Sheik are both bad to fight on FD and SV, so it's really a tossup here. With FD, however, they don't have a platform to escape to.

Arguably, Ike's best stage is Town & City. You can't go wrong there. Lylat also has its advantages.