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Stage Counters

Barbeque

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
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I think stadium can be as good or better than fountain of dreams as a counter-pick, Because of low ceiling for earlier kills, and transformations.

In TBH5 set with axe vs shroomed he ran FoD twice, and I thought stadium might be good for pikachu.
FoD has a high ceiling. Stadium has a low ceiling.

Pikachu literally has the strongest upsmash in the game, better than foxes, and you can follow it up with thunder. Foxes typically counterpick to stadium, and i've even seen top level sheiks counter-pick to fountain, so especially in the sheik matchup it seems like it could only work more-so in pikachus favour going to stadium.
 

soju

SD God
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Jun 11, 2009
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FoD helps deal with the chaingrab sheik has on you and pikachu maneuvers well on FoD which supplements the better neutral game you have against her.
 
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Barbeque

Smash Journeyman
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Nov 4, 2007
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in what way would stadium be a bad second counter? Mid-transforming+transformations can help with chaingrabbing as well. the low ceiling is guaranteeing you kills 10-15% sooner if not more. and running back the same stage after sheiks beaten you on it, all she has to do is the same thing again. if stadium isn't second to FoD what is? You can potentially out-camp her there too.
 
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N64

Smash Champion
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Oct 18, 2004
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Stalking Skler
If we're talking about the shiek matchup in particular, PS is a higher risk / higher reward counterpick than FoD imo. You get your lower ceiling which is nice, and the transformations tend to help out pikachu slightly more than sheik (due to uneven terrain, jolt following the tree/mountain/etc., potential jab infinites, etc). Giving sheik too much space is not necessarily a good thing either, as she doesn't have to worry as much about getting knocked offstage and dealing with your above-average edgeguarding game. Additionally, you risk any grab turning into a world of hurt, though. Getting grabbed in the middle of the stage is awful, awful. Transformations do indeed help with this, but for the vast majority of the time the stage will be in normal formation, and avoiding sheik entirely during this is just unreasonable. Outcamping shiek as pikachu is also not a thing, needles are significantly better than jolt.

Stadium in general is a good stage for pikachu, but I think in that matchup in particular FoD is a reasonable counterpick.
 

soju

SD God
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I would recommend PS as a secondary counter pick but as the old krank said it's high risk-high reward. The size of the blast zones help you and hurt you a ton, sheik has an easier time needle camping on, you have more room to maneuver and establish stage control .

* The stage changes are highly situational based, but they all are in favor of you. I.E. Varying ground heights and slopes, infinite jabs, many many platforms. The base form however I feel sheik has quite the advantage as she can usually cg until she kills you with a fair by the ledge, or her uair which kills pretty early on PS. IMO on PS you're spacing sheik out until the stage changes where you have an advantage then you can act aggressive.

PS as N64 said is a high risk high reward map for pika, while FoD is considered more a low risk-medium reward stage compared to all the other pika vs sheik stages. This is why we must petition Brinstar to return <3
 
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mynameisdog4

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
86
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WV
What do you guys think for stages against Marth? I have no idea I just go back to battlefield lmao
 

soju

SD God
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I like FD PS and DL against marth, being able to jolt camp while having breathing room against his sword is nice , but I also have heard that FoD is a good choice. Yoshi's isn't too bad as long as you don't give him any room to do anything, Battlefield is pretty neutral. I would guess Dreamland is what you want because if you can survive past 100% it's ridiculously hard for marth to kill you.
 

mynameisdog4

Smash Apprentice
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Jun 22, 2013
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Yeah those are kind of the stages I was thinking . I don't really like fountain in that mu, idk why. I guess I just don't have enough room
 

Barbeque

Smash Journeyman
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Nov 4, 2007
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i think stadium is about 50% neutral stadium and 50% transformed stadium not the vast majority neutral, i don't really consider it a particularly vast stage in size like FD or dream land for this reason. In my experience fights on stadium tend to veer toward one side of the stage both in neutral and transformed due to the nature of the stage. learning the stage better with pikas maneuvering creates even more of a perk. and you guys mentioned perks i didn't even know.

i def recommend experimenting with it vs sheik. if you aggress near plats and rack damage with combos, and knock her off stage /steal her jump , then punish her long up+B lag with upsmash thunder, seems like it can do well, and transforms make room for you to get creative too. i dont think you need to camp sheik or even can really, but i think you have answers in the waiting games of stadium to maintain momentum. stadium has decent horizontal space of blast zone as well and its harder for her to see you near the edge or if you recover low.

sheiks grab is sheiks grab no matter where you are there's no reason to be more afraid of it there i think. pikas dashdance is pretty decent. platform techchases are basically the same all-around as well.
 
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Comet7

Smash Lord
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Aug 2, 2013
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Comet7
the problem is that sheik is more rewarded, scratch that, heavily rewarded in comparison to pikachu whenever she grabs pikachu. it's also easier for sheik to grab pikachu because she wins the neutral game by a decent amount. not completely overwhelming, but she does. i think sheiks should theoretically always be able to gimp / kill pikachu once he's off stage without a jump since she can just cover the edge > waveland on > grab. probably not with platforms if pika is close enough but maybe she can anyway and now i'm rambling
 

Barbeque

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sheik is difficult for a lot of characters to deal with not just pika, part of fighting her is just taking the free **** she gets with a grab, DI'ing/evading and trying again cuz if she lands a grab, she just gets the ****, theirs no 2 ways about it until you can DI out. i don't doubt that pika has a hard time with sheik, or perhaps a harder time than some but ideally, just turn it against her. if she gets free 40% or 50% from a grab, make sure you get a free (not as free but you get the idea) 40% or 50% off of a grab or attack that sets up combos (know the combos). Then do it once more and she's likely close to or at kill% then finish her off. I believe this is the general matchup vs sheik. You have to have good mix-ups. and Stadium being a stage that literally mixes up i hypothesize it can help, in regards to the original topic. (and the low ceiling has to help. once you know shes death% with upsmash you can fish for it or punish lag)

on the bright side atleast you have some things like a 2 peice up+B and speed/aerial combo's and juggles to help. and i bet pika's dashdance is conveniently good and necessary too. and don't forget the airdodge option as a recovery mix-up.
 
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Defile

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
91
My two cents: against Fox Pikachu's worst stage is definitely Stadium, because laser camping. Against Falco Pikachu's worst stage is Yoshi's because he can gimp us off the top with shine at obnoxiously low percents and Randall messes up gimps.
 

Defile

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 10, 2013
Messages
91
I also think that Battlefield is Pikachu's best stage. Dreamland is too big and stupidly good for floaties while Yoshi's is so small that Pikachu dies at low percents. Battlefield is the "Goldilocks" size Pikachu thrives in and the lack of a wall on the ledge makes it easier to edgeguard spacies. Stadium, Fountain, and FD all vary depending on the matchup and type of player, in my opinion.
 
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