Stage Competitive Legality & Tournament Selection System

Which selection system do you prefer?

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#83
From what we've discussed so far, I'm going to assume recommending a system of 3-stages with striking is the general consensus.

Additionally, the decision of who strikes first will be done by the tournament organiser or a third party (maybe a non-participant backroom member). Random selection should be involved.
 

King Funk

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#84
From what we've discussed so far, I'm going to assume recommending a system of 3-stages with striking is the general consensus.

Additionally, the decision of who strikes first will be done by the tournament organiser or a third party (maybe a non-participant backroom member). Random selection should be involved.
Unless it's a console tournament in which case contestants just need to do "rock-paper-scissors" to decide who strikes first.
 
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#85
I'll write this up in the ruleset later, using the rules malva typed up a while back as a base. Once that's done, anything you have an objection to should be aired immediately, and we'll try to release the recommended ruleset by the end of December.
 
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#88
Check the OP please.

Peach's Castle
Planet Zebes

These stages aren't massively broken imo...the acid is disputable, but I feel it's not on the level of unfair that Yoshi's Island and Sector Z are. Might change my mind later since I haven't played competitively on Zebes much.
 
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#89
Peach's Castle is the only stage I feel isn't TOO heavily affected by stage environment/layout problems.

The acid of Zebes is WAY to much of an influence for me to think of it as competitive. You can't easily get out of its way, and it can hurt a lot to get get caught in it early on in %.

It changes the game to much, especially when its up to just one platform.
 

dandan

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#90
Check the OP please.

Peach's Castle
Planet Zebes

These stages aren't massively broken imo...the acid is disputable, but I feel it's not on the level of unfair that Yoshi's Island and Sector Z are. Might change my mind later since I haven't played competitively on Zebes much.
are we talking about them as counter picks?

Peach's castle makes some characters not viable (samus, link...), and well, kirby just wrecks characters on this stage, but I personally still think it is suitable for a counter pick
(though again, if you are playing a link main for example, just pick this and play kirby and unless you really suck, you will probably win).

Zebes is another thing, I feel the stage itself is more balanced, but it has some glaring flaws.
First of all, the lava is a pain in the ***, though you could argue that good players can and will avoid it for the most part.
Second, is the issue of air camping, I feel that the #1 strategy to do on Zebes is to air camp.
 
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#91
Link on Peach's Castle isn't bad in my experience. He's saved a ridiculous amount by the bumper and triangles, though the lack of edges isn't really a good point. Additionally, his platform game isn't bad, especially dropping D-Airs.
 
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#92
I'm leaning no on Zebes, because the way the acid moves is too much of a factor. I did play a tournament match on that stage recently and the acid got ~4 kills, all of which were at the higher levels. I don't think the stage is bad otherwise though, so I might be able to be convinced that it should be legal.

I dislike Peach's Castle because of the placement of obstacles and the character matchups there (I did see a Samus beat a Kirby there in tournament though lol). Overall I'm neutral on whether it should be legal.

If I see any of you all online, let's play some matches on these stages and try to exploit any potential broken strategies.
 

SuPeRbOoM

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#93
Peach's castle definitely for a counterpick, Zebes I'm not so sure about for a counterpick though. The stage is big, so running away from your opponent could be a big problem. Lava could solve camping problems but idk, I feel we haven't experimented with this stage enough to give it a status yet.
 

KoRoBeNiKi

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#94
Peach's castle definitely for a counterpick, Zebes I'm not so sure about for a counterpick though. The stage is big, so running away from your opponent could be a big problem. Lava could solve camping problems but idk, I feel we haven't experimented with this stage enough to give it a status yet.
try it vs. another player or something, use all characters to check also I guess.
 
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Me and Boom just played a few matches on Kongo and the first thing I notice is it has very short horizontal edges.

the second thing i notice is the main stage has a slant that causes a few minor problems but isn't to big of an issue.

The side platforms are too high for most recovery situations (especially for those without a lot of vertical climb to their recovery) so i find this stage harder to recover on then Dreamland.

Kongo for me right now is like Dreamland without the platforms in the right places to assist the combos i am fluent with. Because of this it's a compete run and gimp game.

I still think this stage is pretty fair but im starting to see how Dmoogle feels about it.
 
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The side platforms are too high for most recovery situations (especially for those without a lot of vertical climb to their recovery) so i find this stage harder to recover on then Dreamland.
Lolwut? The ability to go up through the floor helps characters with limited recovery options so much. No longer can you simply FSmash Fox recovering from below with Pika and cover all his options, when he can either go up to the edge, or diagonally through the stage. Gimps feel more powerful on Dreamland to me (although I think some people exaggerate how bad the gimping is on that stage).
 
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Honestly after playing those matches i didn't see to much help from the floor. It does give you more options when closer to the edge but when far it doesn't really help.

But I was being very general. My statement stems from the fact that i died at lower %s while playing on Kongo then i generally would have on Dreamland. (Only counting kills where recovery was viable)

This obviously doesn't mean Kongo is harder to recover on, im just saying I am finding it harder currently.

Boom was able to edgeguard me on kongo just as well as he does on Dreamland, which lead to me dying more often then not because of the lack of the side platforms ..at least imo.
 

King Funk

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I find it easier as Falcon to recover on Kongo because I actually use the side platforms quite a lot. The barrel too is an option.

Of course, it doesn't mean that any of these options are safe in any way (the barrel is almost a death sentence in most cases), it just means you have more options you can rely on. Sure, you may not have a wall-edge like in Dreamland, but it's not like you're gonna recover often on Dreamland at all. Considering you can mix up between a normal recovery, under the stage, the side platforms and the barrel, I clearly think that Kongo gives you more chances to come back onstage even though they are still very slim (which is normal in this game).
 
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You need an odd number of stages for striking to be somewhat fair. Unless we make Zebes legal, we have an even number of legal stages, so Peach's Castle is a "counterpick" so that there's an odd number of stages to strike from.
 
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Peach's is certainly a stage that should be put into the ruleset. At the moment it stands that the three stages Hyrule, Dreamland and Kongo are the starting set for striking, and counterpicking options consists of those three plus Peach's Castle.

Should we include Zebes in the initial ruleset? At the moment i'm hesitant, but I think that we might try using Zebes in the backroom tournament to be done in february. If you haven't already, check the yearly schedule (article VII in the doctrine thread) for more on the timing of release.

I feel we should put out an initial recommended ruleset for temporary use in the coming week, and use the two tournaments between now and june 1 to finalise things.
 
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well we do in some ways need a 5th stage in order to make it so striking can actually work

Hyrule, Dreamland, Peach's castle, Kongo Jungle and....how about...Saffron?

I can see what people's issues are with Zebes but what are your opinions with Saffron?
No, we don't. Just use an odd number of stages for striking (Hyrule, Kongo, Dreamland), and leave Peach's Castle as a counterpick. Europe does this with Melee, where Pokemon Stadium is a counterpick so they have an odd number of stages to strike from (FD, DL, FoD, YS, BF).

I admittedly have little experience on Saffron, but I could see camping being pretty stupid on that stage.
 

dandan

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i completely agree with the star king, i think having hyrule, dreamland, and kongo for striking and adding peach's castle for counter picks is the way to go.

i actually think fox is more problematic than kirby there, standing on the helipad lasering. sort of acts like the tent area for that purpose, only the wall is lower so it is easier to laser.
 
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