Meta SSBU DK Metagame Thread

Big O

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#1
Welcome to the DK metagame thread for SSBU. This is a general thread for various DK metagame centered topics like strategies, combos, character matchups, preferred stages, and competitive impressions. The official SSBU DK Discord is here. This first post will also be updated periodically with links to useful resources and other helpful things.
 
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Wolfirre

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#2
Hello !
Great idea !
I'll copy/paste my thread there then !

Hi !
I recently started to go on tournaments, and i've been wondering which stage benefits Donkey Kong ? And in contrary which stage handicap him ?
Explain with as much detail as possible detail why that stage would benefit him or not, thanks a lot DK mates ! ☺☺
 

Big O

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#3
Hello !
Great idea !
I'll copy/paste my thread there then !

Hi !
I recently started to go on tournaments, and i've been wondering which stage benefits Donkey Kong ? And in contrary which stage handicap him ?
Explain with as much detail as possible detail why that stage would benefit him or not, thanks a lot DK mates ! ☺☺
I think FD is the stage to avoid in this game. Platforms help you so much now for extending combos, escaping disadvantage, and approaching/camping that I can't really think of a compelling reason to go FD anymore. Low ceiling stages with plats like pretty much every pokemon stage are probably ideal at this point. Castle Siege is also really good against anyone you want to rush down due to how small the main stage is.
 

Wolfirre

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#4
I think FD is the stage to avoid in this game. Platforms help you so much now for extending combos, escaping disadvantage, and approaching/camping that I can't really think of a compelling reason to go FD anymore. Low ceiling stages with plats like pretty much every pokemon stage are probably ideal at this point. Castle Siege is also really good against anyone you want to rush down due to how small the main stage is.
Okay thanks a lot, it now make more sense to me.

I do have a last question, i'm looking for a character as a second main, i want to chose a character who could take on all DK very bad MU ( i actually have no clue which MU are bad for DK for now ) and i don't know which kind of character should i look for, anyone can help ?
 
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tskidless

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#5
I do not have the game just yet but I do plan on getting it and playing as DK, and I want to know if anyone tested if the weak hit of N-Air is just as silly as it was in Smash 4? I also wonder if it is possible to get a KO with a locking D-Tilt into something like Giant Punch or Forward Smash.

Also the Discord link doesn't work for me.
 

Big O

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#6
I do not have the game just yet but I do plan on getting it and playing as DK, and I want to know if anyone tested if the weak hit of N-Air is just as silly as it was in Smash 4? I also wonder if it is possible to get a KO with a locking D-Tilt into something like Giant Punch or Forward Smash.

Also the Discord link doesn't work for me.
Does the link work now?

In this game jab locks don't last long enough to get big hits for free, but you could probably get Down B or Dash Attack out of it.
 

tskidless

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#8
I have seen footage of Mario locking with Jab into Forward Smash as well as Isabelle doing Jab to Down Smash. While I know that DK probably won't have any kill set-ups with this I feel that he can do more than simply Dash Attack or Down B. If I remember correctly you have thirty or so frames to punish someone if you locked them which means that DK should have enough time to say Down Smash, fish for a Jab into a grab, (assuming that it is still a thing of course.) maybe even a RAR B-Air.

I still feel that the weak hit of N-Air can lead into some silly things just like it did in Smash 4.
 

BR3ND3N

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#9
Hi, long time lurker but first SmashBoards post here.

I'm looking to understand a better way to beat DK at the moment. My friend who I've been doing friendlies with just picked him up and I just can't seem to consistently win against him regardless of what i do. I'm thinking it might be best to attempt to try and kill with spikes but I find most of the time its hard to go for hits on him during his up B.

I've only tried a few matchups so far being Ganondorf (my most successful), Chrom, and Shiek, but regardless of which character i picked i found myself just playing scared and the only consistent kills i found were through carrying off stage and then pressuring away from ledge. So I'm wondering what approach i should be taking to finish DK off. I assume since he's a heavy its a hard off the top and off the side kill and it definitely has seemed that way thus far, but as i said earlier spiking him feels like it requires too much precision as it is so I'm just curious if you DK mains think there's a better way?

What matchups on DK do you seem to think are the hardest, and mainly why? I was thinking perhaps Mewtwo/Marth/Lucina/Samus/Etc for related to reasons above with longer range with large aoe spikes, but i am curious as to whether or not there's something i'm missing and I figured it's a good topic for discussion.
 

Big O

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#10
Hi, long time lurker but first SmashBoards post here.

I'm looking to understand a better way to beat DK at the moment. My friend who I've been doing friendlies with just picked him up and I just can't seem to consistently win against him regardless of what i do. I'm thinking it might be best to attempt to try and kill with spikes but I find most of the time its hard to go for hits on him during his up B.

I've only tried a few matchups so far being Ganondorf (my most successful), Chrom, and Shiek, but regardless of which character i picked i found myself just playing scared and the only consistent kills i found were through carrying off stage and then pressuring away from ledge. So I'm wondering what approach i should be taking to finish DK off. I assume since he's a heavy its a hard off the top and off the side kill and it definitely has seemed that way thus far, but as i said earlier spiking him feels like it requires too much precision as it is so I'm just curious if you DK mains think there's a better way?

What matchups on DK do you seem to think are the hardest, and mainly why? I was thinking perhaps Mewtwo/Marth/Lucina/Samus/Etc for related to reasons above with longer range with large aoe spikes, but i am curious as to whether or not there's something i'm missing and I figured it's a good topic for discussion.
The best way to beat DK is to spike him offstage. You can spike his Up B with most characters semi-reliably and even if you can't, he is prone to getting harassed offstage if he is forced to use Up B. Juggling DK is also effective.

Rosa is probably still DK's worst MU. Anyone that can just run up to him and press buttons for free like Fox are also hard.
 

AlphaYak

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#11
As a DK main, I find myself Johns’ing a lot about people camping, but crying inside because I know my losses are due to my lack of understanding of playing against zoners (especially speedy ones like the FE squad) and control players (especially ones with a lot of options to control mid range and long range, like Samus, or Palutena).

It seems like no matter what I do to close the space, they always have time to react, and edge me out with projectiles, tethers, or counter attacking (not down B counter, but ‘agressing’ when they can see that I’m approaching. I do know how to grab).

What exercises could I go through, or techniques could I practice to overcome the disadvantage, not necessarily against a character, but against a style of play I struggle with using a grappler-brawler like DK?
 
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#12
I've been wondering, how long does the grounded state on DK's Headbutt last? I've been using it under the assumption that it's about as long as K. Rool's down-tilt and it's been quite reliable as a result, but I'd like to know if I can get away with using it at mid-percents (50-60%). Also, does anyone yet know how long the super armor lasts? It seems as though I power through attacks with the move just as often as I get hit out of it.
 

AlphaYak

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#13
I've been wondering, how long does the grounded state on DK's Headbutt last? I've been using it under the assumption that it's about as long as K. Rool's down-tilt and it's been quite reliable as a result, but I'd like to know if I can get away with using it at mid-percents (50-60%). Also, does anyone yet know how long the super armor lasts? It seems as though I power through attacks with the move just as often as I get hit out of it.
According to the DK frame data thread which you can find a couple layers higher in the thread list, burial calcs work as follows.

"
Ground Side B Bury = 130+ (Side B damage / 2) + Opponent's % - Floor[14.4 * N (valid inputs)]. Inputs are capped at 1 every 2 frames.
Air Side B Bury = 115 + (Side B damage / 2) + Opponent's % - Floor[14.4 * N (valid inputs)]. Inputs are capped at 1 every 2 frames.
"
So if the opponent is at 50%, they would be buried for:

130 frames + ([damage from side b: let's say a fresh 13.8 / 2 so 6.9] + 50 - a floor of 14.4 frames, let's assume the opponent enters no inputs because their mom called or w/e)=
174.5 frames of being buried assuming no stale moves, no inputs, and you're on the ground when you use it, or about 2.96 seconds. If I'm misreading the calculation of the floor of 14.4 seconds and that's only applied with inputs, then it's actually 188.9 frames of burial, or a little over 3 seconds in our vacuum.

Your super armor will last from frame 5-14.
 

AlphaYak

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#14
Hi, long time lurker but first SmashBoards post here.

I'm looking to understand a better way to beat DK at the moment. My friend who I've been doing friendlies with just picked him up and I just can't seem to consistently win against him regardless of what i do. I'm thinking it might be best to attempt to try and kill with spikes but I find most of the time its hard to go for hits on him during his up B.

I've only tried a few matchups so far being Ganondorf (my most successful), Chrom, and Shiek, but regardless of which character i picked i found myself just playing scared and the only consistent kills i found were through carrying off stage and then pressuring away from ledge. So I'm wondering what approach i should be taking to finish DK off. I assume since he's a heavy its a hard off the top and off the side kill and it definitely has seemed that way thus far, but as i said earlier spiking him feels like it requires too much precision as it is so I'm just curious if you DK mains think there's a better way?

What matchups on DK do you seem to think are the hardest, and mainly why? I was thinking perhaps Mewtwo/Marth/Lucina/Samus/Etc for related to reasons above with longer range with large aoe spikes, but i am curious as to whether or not there's something i'm missing and I figured it's a good topic for discussion.
In my experience, DK struggles with opponents who can:
A) Outrange him and keep him out of range while still remaining effective at mitigating his approach/speed. Characters like the infamous Fire Emblem swordsmen can keep him honest, while walling him out with their disjoints. For a good example of using disjoints to your advantage in fighting him, look up Soronie vs Von for the Shulk vs DK matches. She does a great job managing the monado arts for stats, and controlling DK's position and approach options.

B) Characters who can control a good mid range to long range matchup like Robin, Samus, and Link can maximize projectiles, but will need to be wary of DK's maneuverability so they don't wind up trading, as that's usually a better trade for DK because of his weight. Controlling the space between you and him is key, make him come to you with this play style, and don't let him get there for free.

Characters with superior frame data need to be careful and wait for read, as the majority of DK's options and combo starters come out pretty quickly, but toons like Fox and Pikachu can usually get in and combo him for free with good mix ups (like Pikachu nair to cross up up-tilt and the like).

Hope this helps.
 
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#15
According to the DK frame data thread which you can find a couple layers higher in the thread list, burial calcs work as follows.

"
"
So if the opponent is at 50%, they would be buried for:

130 frames + ([damage from side b: let's say a fresh 13.8 / 2 so 6.9] + 50 - a floor of 14.4 frames, let's assume the opponent enters no inputs because their mom called or w/e)=
174.5 frames of being buried assuming no stale moves, no inputs, and you're on the ground when you use it, or about 2.96 seconds. If I'm misreading the calculation of the floor of 14.4 seconds and that's only applied with inputs, then it's actually 188.9 frames of burial, or a little over 3 seconds in our vacuum.

Your super armor will last from frame 5-14.
Ah, thanks for the clarification. I should've mentioned that I did see the frame data post, I just wanted the burial equation to be expressed in more layman's terms and this response definitely explains it well.
 

Lifewaker

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#17
I try to avoid FD and Omega stages so that I get platforms to wait out projectiles. Once Megaman jumps up to take a shot at you, that's your chance to get him.
 

DK-RULES

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#18
I try to avoid FD and Omega stages so that I get platforms to wait out projectiles. Once Megaman jumps up to take a shot at you, that's your chance to get him.
It did not seem to matter with this person, and it was battlefield. He kept using pellets to stop me from getting close then constantly followed up with projectiles after when DK was stuck. Wish I had recorded it for review.
 

AlphaYak

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#19
Anyone have any tips vs Megaman. Those little pellets are horrible to fight against. I just got wrecked super hard.
As was touched on in a couple other threads, camping is a very effective way of dealing with Dong. The best way to get around the walls of projectiles and lemons is to be patient and wait for a metal blade or crash bomb to come out to try to find your way in there for a counter attack.
You’re on the defense when you’re at long range, but DK’a range and grabs let you control the close game, so move towards him constantly, but be patient and don’t open yourself up. Keep your shield healthy to deal with the pellet pressure, and close the distance as safely as you can, and if you trade, it’s a good trade for you since DK is a heavy hitter. After a trade, play the space game again as safely as possible and try to get there keeping your percentage as low as possible until you can trade again; if you manage to get in on a whiffed smash attack, crash bomb, or metal blade, grab him to get control of the matchup, and use your grab to combo for as much as you can.

If you get him off stage at safe percentages, stay above him and in safe range of DK’s vertical recovery as his projectile game and air defense are arguably at a disadvantage off stage since DK’s B-air, F-air, Down B, and D-air out range flame sword, and come out fast enough to punish Megaman up-air. If get below him though, beware the frame traps and hard knuckle so that you don’t get spiked for free.
 
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