Meta SSB4 Falco Matchup Discussion 39 - Jigglypuff - Award-winning Singers

[Ffamran]

Welcome to the Jigglypuff matchup discussion.

All credit goes to Quas-quas for the original images.​

Here's a link to the main post: SSB4 Falco Matchup Discussion - Main Post. This will be more for general matchup discussions like making a suggestion and such. Or, you could head over to the social thread and ask there: Where We Prefer The Air And The Points Don't Matter!. Or PM me if you really have to, but don't make a habit out of it.

Oh, and if you guys and girls want to play each other to have fun or learn about the MU, check out the NNID and FC sharing thread on the Falco boards: http://smashboards.com/threads/anyone-want-to-exchange-nnids-or-friend-codes.386513/.

There's also the regular NNID and FC sharing threads in the Online discussion if you just want to ask anyone to play.

Notice: Some rules, guidelines, and tips. Some of these are a given since you joined any forum.

1. Be respectful of each other. No insults, no trolling, no flaming, or any of that nonsense.
2. Be aware that some of the discussions can and will be old, so don't call out someone for "wrong" data if that post was referring to say, patch 1.0.3 stuff.
3. Be impartial; learn to see things from other sides. So, don't boast about all the advantages. Notice weaknesses and strengths from both parties.
4. Stay on topic.
5. Have fun.

And here is a frame speed ranking of their regular attacks and grabs - no Specials yet, sorry - to clear up on things since sometimes a move may feel slow, but it's actually fast and vice versa. Plus more information doesn't always hurt. Data from the Complete Hitbox/Frame Data For Every Character thread.

Note: As of patch 1.1.4.

Move Hit Frames||
Jab|2-4, 10-12, 17-21, 22-26, 27-31, 32-36, (infinite), 41-42|5-6, 13-14
Dash Attack|8-11 or 12-19|5-9 or 10-20
Ftilt|6-8|7-10
Utilt|5-9, 12-16|9-10 or 11-13
Dtilt|7-9|10-12
Side Smash|17-19 or 20-20|16-19 or 20-24
Up Smash|7-12, 13-20|16-19
Down Smash|7-9|14-15
Nair|3-5, 6-9, 14-17, 21-24|6-7 or 8-30
Fair|10-13, 14-17, 18-21, 22-25, 26-27, 28-29|8-9 or 10-20
Bair|4-5 or 6-12|12-13
Uair|7-11|9-21
Dair|16-19 or 20-31|7-8, (7 more hits), 31-32
Grab|8-9|6-7
Dash Grab|10-11|8-9
Pivot Grab|11-12|9-10

 

[Jiggly]

I don't think I've ever played a really good falco, but I will say what I believe about this MU

Falco Pros:
Faster Frame data
Larger Hitboxes
Projectile- can't be boxed out by aerials

Falco Cons:
Landing cool down on aerials
Lasers dont auto cancel
Hitboxes have average priority
Easy to gimp

Jigglypuff pros:
Good air speed
Ducking can dodge lots of approaches or walling options
better priority
Good offstage game.
Jab-rest works until the 70s% (kills)

Jigglypuff Cons:
Can't be above falco without getting bopped
no projectile


I think Jigglypuff owns the neutral in this MU, with the better approach options and being able to handle falco's options when she is at head level. Falco's best bet is to try to get puff above him, as that is when he will do best. Spacing is crucial, any unsafe move on shield is a jab rest kill, or with the landing lag, a rest OOS at higher percents. Good spacing and noticing the puff's pattern's is cruecial. If they always approach at the same height, pressure with lasers. This forces puff to go higher or duck. This sets up an advantage for falco. Falco relies on mindgames and getting puff where he wants her. Make sure your recovery stays unpredictable. Always going for the ledge snap is bad, because a nair can beat out falco's phantasm and fire bird. Be careful, or get rekt. I feel like this is a 40-60 MU puff favor, and falco needs to be smart to win this.

Good Falco Stages:
Smashville: Helps with recovery options, platform forces puff to be above you often, and lasers are great for punishing the platform
Halberd: Sharking gives you more recovery options, low ceiling helps with gettting puff above you, and getting kills earlier.
FD: Nice open stage, easier to use lasers. Also, makes it harder for puff to combo you. May make it harder to get puff above you, so only use if the above two are banned.

Stages to Ban:
Battlefield: Puff can combo you, and all the platforms make it harder to use lasers effectively. It may be easier to get puff above you, but with the rest of your tools at stake and putting you in a bigger risk.
Lylat: Tilting stage makes lasers unusable, and the tilts can make it easier to duck falco's attack. Only pro is low platforms, but also with lylat ledge shenanigans and your predicatable recovery, it forces a linear recovery and easy gimps.


Again, I'm not a total sm4sh falco expert, so feel free to correct me.

 

[Envioux]

I think Jiggly summed up the matchup quite well. I'll just put extra stress on making sure your recovery is not predictable, and to seriously be careful how you use your laggy moves. Patience is key to winning the matchup, and Jigglypuff players have plenty of it.

As for stages, Duck Hunt might not be a terrible choice for counterpick since it can kill puff off of any blast zone much quicker than any other stage. The only con I can think of is that it's easier for puff to go out for the nair kill off the side. It's just a theory on paper but yeah, I think it might actually be a decent pick.

 

[Ffamran]

The falco vs jiggly puff matchup was annoying for me a few months ago. But as of recently I started approaching with nair and it's been ridiculous how much of her options you take away. Also what many of the puffs usually do is short hop (obviously) but Falco's F smash tends to miss when they do this. So I started going for more up smashes and man this frustrates them. They cannot avoid it. Just some things I noticed and since implementing them in my game i haven't lost to a puff.

Randomly charging in with a random usmash works for me 90% of the time

Wouldn't using Utilt be safer, though? Also, Utilt reaches a bit higher than Up Smash... I think.

 

[Zionaze]

Ill need to stop in order for me to do a utilt so jc usmash is better.

 

[BltzZ]

Wouldn't using Utilt be safer, though? Also, Utilt reaches a bit higher than Up Smash... I think.

I meant using Up smash as a much reliable kill option than forward smash to catch puff. Up tilts are great too

 

[Ffamran]

Ill need to stop in order for me to do a utilt so jc usmash is better.

There's also pivot Utilts. It depends, but Utilts are safer because of the lower end lag and quicker startup while Up Smashes are more rewarding. Also depends on where Jigglypuff decides to go too.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Falco wins this matchup. N-air and Down-B a lot against Jiggs air game. Jab and D-tilt against her ground game. Falco has all the answers. Only struggles slightly to secure the kill early as Falco doesn't move fast enough in the air to easily cheese Jiggs with U-air in most situations, meaning you either rely on high percent throw KOs, U-tilt, or U-smash. Jiggs does edgeguard him decently but this doesn't make up for Falco's superior normals generally speaking.

 

[Jiggly]

Falco wins this matchup. N-air and Down-B a lot against Jiggs air game. Jab and D-tilt against her ground game. Falco has all the answers. Only struggles slightly to secure the kill early as Falco doesn't move fast enough in the air to easily cheese Jiggs with U-air in most situations, meaning you either rely on high percent throw KOs, U-tilt, or U-smash. Jiggs does edgeguard him decently but this doesn't make up for Falco's superior normals generally speaking.

We beat Falco's Nair, and down B really isn't a solid option. It leaves you way open, and since most puff's empty hop to bait, it can leave you open for an easy rest punish. Puff doesn't need to approach on the ground, because we can solidly approach falco through the air. The only time puff goes to the ground, is to sometimes avoid lasers. Also, if we approach a falco on the ground, it's either a bair approach, a grab, or a dash attack. You mention your ground options, but yet our Dash Attack beats all of your options. It's still not the best option as it's an easy shield, but It's a mixup from our airgame. Utilt can be a problem, but with how we cover most of your other options, it's just a silver lining.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Jiggs has to space a fairly specific way to beat N-air, which honestly is huge enough to be difficult for Jiggs to beat consistently head on (the hitbox on that thing is pretty darn generous, considering how fast it is, and you basically can't touch Falco's shield for the most part given he virtually always has an OOS option to punish between Jab, U-smash, SH Reflector, and N-air). Jiggs trying to be well spaced is covered by reflector. Note that Falco can retreat while doing SH reflector which Jiggs has to READ with like full forward momentum to be in range to punish if he's spaced this at optimal range, otherwise it's safe. I don't specifically think Falco has problems in neutral this matchup. Furthermore Jiggs has to respect reflector when Falco juggles, which is essentially free damage that she can't punish either.

Yes I'm aware Jiggs has a good DA though Falco also has a strong DA and outboxes Jiggs. Really the only problem I see for Falco is he kinda has to fish for kills, but realistically Jiggs has to work to approach Falco given his oos game and spacing options are actually really good.

 

[Jiggly]

Jiggs has to space a fairly specific way to beat N-air, which honestly is huge enough to be difficult for Jiggs to beat consistently head on (the hitbox on that thing is pretty darn generous, considering how fast it is, and you basically can't touch Falco's shield for the most part given he virtually always has an OOS option to punish between Jab, U-smash, SH Reflector, and N-air). Jiggs trying to be well spaced is covered by reflector. Note that Falco can retreat while doing SH reflector which Jiggs has to READ with like full forward momentum to be in range to punish if he's spaced this at optimal range, otherwise it's safe. I don't specifically think Falco has problems in neutral this matchup. Furthermore Jiggs has to respect reflector when Falco juggles, which is essentially free damage that she can't punish either.

Yes I'm aware Jiggs has a good DA though Falco also has a strong DA and outboxes Jiggs. Really the only problem I see for Falco is he kinda has to fish for kills, but realistically Jiggs has to work to approach Falco given his oos game and spacing options are actually really good.

Falco's DA doesnt outbox jiggs. The only one that outboxes Jiggs is palutena. Jiggs' DA has amazing priority. And the spacing isnt all that hard honestly. All you have to do is not charge straight in. The feet of her fair beats falco's nair, but if she activates it too late, the nair will hit her body. A good jiggs knows not to charge in, so that shouldn't be a problem. Idk all too much about reflectors properties, but with its start up and cool down, it doesnt seem like that safe of a spacing option. Im not an expert on that though, so I may be wrong.

 

[Attila_]

Jiggs does not have the mobility to outbox falco at all. Is falco camps with SH bair, jiggs literally has no answer. Even if she baits completely, she doesn't have the speed to close in and punish.

Falco can use uair similarly if he gets under jiggs.

Reflector is actually a great aerial spacing tool; it punishes every wiffed aerial, and is safe against jiggs when retreated.

Probably not as bad as some of Jiggs' other mus, but not great regardless.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Falco's DA doesnt outbox jiggs. The only one that outboxes Jiggs is palutena. Jiggs' DA has amazing priority. And the spacing isnt all that hard honestly. All you have to do is not charge straight in. The feet of her fair beats falco's nair, but if she activates it too late, the nair will hit her body. A good jiggs knows not to charge in, so that shouldn't be a problem. Idk all too much about reflectors properties, but with its start up and cool down, it doesnt seem like that safe of a spacing option. Im not an expert on that though, so I may be wrong.

If Falco and Jiggs DA at the same time, they will clank, which puts Falco at an advantage given he has his superior 2 frame Jab to beat out any other buffered action Jiggs does up close aside from Rest I guess.

Also my point is, if you're really trying to space safely, that makes Reflector much safer as a result because you have to actually commit a certain way in order to be in range to punish Falco if he retreats it properly (note that Falco will likely almost never use this if you're on the ground, but rather always use this as a reaction to you being in the air which allows him to space it). Yes if you have like...full forward momentum and airdodge it you can get a good punish, but given Falco's oos game, that's generally not very wise in this matchup.

The way I see it, Falco clearly has a safer neutral game than Jiggs that's also generally more rewarding. While his recovery is punishable, it's hardly bad enough for Jiggs to gimp him early as long as Falco does not waste his resources carelessly. While Falco has to fish for the KO move, he has no shortage of viable moves in neutral to go for that can be used to end Jiggs stock including U-tilt, D-tilt, U-smash, B-air and even U-throw/B-throw at higher percents.

 

[Zionaze]

yeah post patch Nair changes this matchup drastically.

 

[Jiggly]

If Falco and Jiggs DA at the same time, they will clank, which puts Falco at an advantage given he has his superior 2 frame Jab to beat out any other buffered action Jiggs does up close aside from Rest I guess.

I just tested it again. Its not true, puff beats falco. But the rest of your point was valid, except I still dont see reflector being solid in neutral, but maybe if I play a solid falco, they could change my mind.