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Squirtle's Crouch Dodging

TheReflexWonder

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I was doing some personal research on Squirtle's crouch after going through the nightmare of fighting Kirby with Captain Falcon/Ganondorf, and found fairly useful information yesterday--

Squirtle non-moving crouch/D-Tilt goes under stuff! I've bolded the really important stuff.



On level ground...

Luigi - Up-angled F-Smash range is severely reduced; front side of U-Smash doesn't hit

Peach - standing and running grab ranges severely reduced

Donkey Kong - uncharged Neutral-B range is reduced (misses if you are right next to him)

Yoshi - front side of U-Smash doesn't hit

Ganondorf - can't standing grab; can't Jab; F-Tilt range severely reduced; can't Down-B; can't Neutral-B; can't shorthop Forward-B; F-Smash range reduced (if you are next to him, it must be down-angled to hit); can't D-Smash; can't use lagless shorthop D-Air

Samus - can't Forward-B, Z-Air must be sweetspotted to hit

Zero Suit Samus - all grab ranges severely reduced (only the tip at the end grabs); Jab range severely reduced, F-Tilt range reduced (only down-angled F-Tilt hits); Dash Attack range severely reduced; can't U-Tilt

R.O.B. - can't Jab1, F-Tilt and F-Smash ranges reduced (must be down-angled to hit); Down-B and item throw ranges reduced (must be fired from a distance to hit)

Fox - can't laser; F-Smash takes longer to hit (which is more easily powershielded)

Falco - can't laser

Captain Falcon - F-Tilt range reduced (must be down-angled to hit)

Marth - standing grab range reduced (if his hand touches the little arrow underneath Squirtle's tag, he lands the grab)

Ike - standing and running grab ranges reduced(if his hand touches the little arrow underneath Squirtle's tag, he lands the grab)

Snake - standing grab range reduced (if his arms touch the little arrow underneath Squirtle's tag, he lands the grab); can't Jab



However, I decided to look into it with slopes involved today, and it appears to be a real game-changer on sloped stages. These work on--

Yoshi's Island - the edges of the stage

Lylat Cruise - the left and right "wings" of the stage

Castle Siege - all slopes

Pokémon Stadium 1 - Water stage slopes (under the windmill), Fire stage slopes (center hole), Rock stage slopes (any significant angle)

Pokémon Stadium 2 - Ice stage slopes (platforms), Ground stage slopes (dirt mound)

Delfino Plaza - Beach slopes, Stairs slopes, Roof slopes, Shine slopes (the large ones), City slopes (umbrellas :p)

Halberd - center slopes

Frigate Orpheon - center slopes

Rainbow Cruise - all significant slopes

Brinstar - all slopes



On sloped ground...

Mario - nothing

Luigi - can't U-Smash; F-Smash range severely reduced (only down-angled hits), can't Up-B sweetspot

Peach - can't grab at all, can't Jab, can't sourspot U-Smash

Bowser - standing grab range reduced; can't Jab1, can't grounded Forward-B; F-Tilt range reduced (only down-angled hits)

Donkey Kong - can't use uncharged Neutral-B

Diddy Kong - nothing

Yoshi - can't running grab; can't U-Smash

Wario - standing grab range severely reduced

Link - can't standing grab, running grab, or pivot grab

Zelda - can't standing grab or pivot grab; F-Smash range reduced (only last hit is in range)

Sheik - can't Needle Storm; running grab range reduced

Ganondorf - can't grab at all; can't Jab; can't F-Tilt; can't Down-B; can't Neutral-B; can't use any autocanceled aerials; F-Smash range reduced (if next to you, must be down-angled); can't D-Smash

Toon Link - all grab ranges severely reduced (must pretty much be touching Squirtle); can't shorthop B-Air

Samus - can't grab at all; can't use Power Missiles; can't Z-Air

Zero Suit Samus - all grab ranges severely reduced (only the tip at the end will grab); can't Jab; F-Tilt range reduced (must be down-angled to hit); Dash Attack range severely reduced; can't U-Tilt; can't Forward-B

Pit - can't standing grab or pivot grab; F-Tilt range severely reduced; F-Smash range reduced; can't falling B-Air

Ice Climbers - nothing

R.O.B. - can't grab at all; can't Jab1; F-Tilt range reduced (must be down-angled to hit); F-Smash range reduced (must be down-angled to hit); Down-B and item throw ranges reduced (must be fired at a distance)

Kirby - standing grab range reduced

Meta Knight - standing grab range reduced; can't running grab

King Dedede - grab range reduced (not by much); can't F-Tilt

Olimar - F-Smash range reduced; U-Smash range severely reduced

Fox - can't laser

Falco - can't laser; can't rising B-Air

Wolf - can't laser; Jab range reduced

Captain Falcon - can't grab at all; can't Forward-B; F-Tilt range reduced (only down-angled hits); D-Smash only sourspots (super-weak)

Pikachu - standing grab range slightly reduced; U-Smash range reduced

Squirtle - standing grab range slightly reduced

Ivysaur - nothing

Charizard - can't grab at all; F-Tilt range reduced (only down-angled hits)

Lucario - can't grab at all; can't Forward-B; can't Neutral-B (unless it's enormous due to aura)

Jigglypuff - nothing

Marth - standing grab range severely reduced

Ike - can't grab at all; can't Jab; F-Tilt range reduced (must be down-angled to hit)

Ness - Jab range slightly reduced

Lucas - Jab range slightly reduced; can't Forward-B

Mr. Game and Watch - Jab range slightly reduced; U-Smash range reduced

Snake - can't grab at all; can't Jab; can't F-Tilt1 (F-Tilt2 will hit)

Sonic - standing grab range severely reduced; can't Jab; can't Forward-B

I feel like these should be considered for counterpick purposes. Yoshi, Zero Suit Samus, R.O.B., Ike, and Snake all appear to be affected in a major way.
 

-Ominous-

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Can Squirtle suck under Yoshi's running grab on flat ground? I'm pretty sure G&W can, and Squirtle's crouch isn't higher. At least I think.
 

TheReflexWonder

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Can Squirtle suck under Yoshi's running grab on flat ground? I'm pretty sure G&W can, and Squirtle's crouch isn't higher. At least I think.
I think we can only do it at a dead spot; it's not reliable.

Awesome!

By the way, can't we crouch under Ganon's Wizard Kick?
I don't know; I didn't test his Down-B. I'll check when I can.
 

Rizen

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Too bad this doesn't work when crawling. Good stuff.
I experimented with Link crouching a while ago and this applies to Squirt (and everyone) too: there is no standing animation lag. This means squirt can crouch on slopes by holding down then tap C up (even when still holding down) to crouch (smaller hurtbox)>Usmash (normal hitbubbles). The windup animation will take the hurtbox out of crouching before the attack starts though.
Any attack can be down immediately from crouching, release down and input the attack, it will bypass (almost all) the standing animation and larger hurtbox area. For squirt: down>release the control stick and immediately tap 'A' to frame 1 jab. No wind up on his superfast jab means it comes out of the smaller crouching hurtbox.
Going from crouching to standing, a characters hurtbox 'grows' with the animation so by skipping the animation attacks will start from the smaller hurtbox.
 

Myollnir

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On level ground...

Ganondorf - can't standing or pivot grab (he can); can't Jab; can't F-Tilt (he can if he's next to you); can't Wizard Kick ; can't Short Hop + Dair ; can't Warlock Punch ; can't FSmash if he's right next to you (only the down-angled hits) ; can't DSmash ; can't aerial sideB
Added some things. Ganon can't do anything to a crouch-dodging Squirtle. :laugh:

Oh and DK can't hit you with an uncharged DK Punch if you are right next to him. :laugh:
 

Myollnir

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I think I didn't express myself properly. Ganon can't Standing Grab (at all), but he can Pivot Grab (I don't know how you tested it? I haven't managed to dodge any pivot grab by crouching).
 

TheReflexWonder

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I think I didn't express myself properly. Ganon can't Standing Grab (at all), but he can Pivot Grab (I don't know how you tested it? I haven't managed to dodge any pivot grab by crouching).
I tested each pivot grab by having them run past Squirtle (generally starting from behind him) and pivot grab. Granted, I think I may have used Lylat as the testing grounds for a couple of the level ground tests, so it may have thrown that off.
 

TheReflexWonder

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I mean, if there are more things we dodge, I'd totally add them. I'm just not aware of them.
 

Myollnir

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Okay, I might test some other moves if you don't mind, but I want to.finish my list of moves that ivy can avoid with u -tilt first

:phone:
 

TheReflexWonder

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I'm all for more knowledge. If you have other discoveries, I would be glad to add them.
 

Grizzlpaw

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Is this thread dedicated only to squirtle's crouch, or are we discussing his crawl as well?

If so, what about squirtle's hydrocrawl? It could be useful as an approach tool. Especially since squirtle crawls twice as fast as normal for the first second-ish of the crawl, and it might freak out some folks lol.
 

TheReflexWonder

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I suppose you could discuss the crawl, too, but I'm not sure how many things the crouch avoids that the crawl doesn't.
 
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