Squirtle Tactical Discussion

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Idk why its not listed, maybe because most of the PTs of old kinda are lazy?

See if you can add it.

Also while everyone knows about it, I am not sure how much each person explored it.

 

[Geenareeno]

Once T-block sees this he'll do it.

 

[Seagull Joe]

I meant shellshifting when I said reverse shift. Whoops loool.

Edit: I've been trolled because I never said that. Someone else did and you quote it with my name o_O.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Lol shell shifting is basically just a sexy name for squirtle's equally sexy pivot.


Reverse shift moar in 2011. Yea boi.

 

[CoonTail]

^This all day

@Seagull he just incorrectly quoted you when it was a quote from me....thats all

 

[T-block]

It's in the AT thread under Ducking Reverse.

We can change the name if you guys want... I think Reverse Shift does sound better, and I never hear anyone use Ducking Reverse anyways lol

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Get ducked up haha


Ducking reverse too good.


Shifting reverse more practical/descriptive

 

[CoonTail]

Well also the explanation on the ducking reverse was a pretty bad description any.....it says we crawl backwards even though were sliding LOL.

If we crawl backwards that isn't an AT it's just crawling backwards LOL, imagine seeing an Ivy AT which stated you crawl backwards with Ivy....

10ivycrawls

 

[T-block]

Crawling backwards is the input you need to perform -_____-"

Ducking reverse? Reverse shift? Shifting reverse?

WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME

 

[CoonTail]

Reverse shift......thats it because it makes the most sense

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Everyone was told that Squirtle grab-releases opponents on Frame 29, which means that he would get a +1 frame advantage without buffering involved. This is common knowledge from ages ago.

Can someone test that for me, though? I feel like this was only assumed because grab-release -> Jab1 is a true combo, but since we know that it is impossible for a grab-released opponent to buffer, it might be wrong, and it may just be similar to ZSS's Jab stuff.

 

[T-block]

That was debunked. Squirtle gets 30 frames as well.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I see. Oh well. I was going to suggest looking into more grab-release stuff, but, I guess that just leaves us with this--

F-Tilt is an underrated grab-release option. When playing against someone who anticipates a Jab and tries to SDI it away, F-Tilt sends them almost straight out. Unless they get lucky or have catlike reflexes, that will cause them to miss a tech at higher percentages, which allows you to hydroplane a U-Smash for an early KO.

If they shield and don't unshield immediately (as in, if they don't see the F-Tilt coming a mile away), it won't be punished, as it's too fast to react to that way. If they spotdodge or roll, your attack ends much earlier, allowing you to try to punish.

 

[Steeler]

F-Tilt is an underrated grab-release option. When playing against someone who anticipates a Jab and tries to SDI it away, F-Tilt sends them almost straight out. Unless they get lucky or have catlike reflexes, that will cause them to miss a tech at higher percentages, which allows you to hydroplane a U-Smash for an early KO.

If they shield and don't unshield immediately (as in, if they don't see the F-Tilt coming a mile away), it won't be punished, as it's too fast to react to that way. If they spotdodge or roll, your attack ends much earlier, allowing you to try to punish.

i want to call that a very good option select, but that's not quite how option selects work in street fighter...

but that's an even better avatar. wario, you devilish bastard.

also this means that squirtle jab isn't guaranteed, just that the opponent has to be frame perfect in order to shield it? makes sense, it's always failed for me every now and then.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

i want to call that a very good option select, but that's not quite how option selects work in street fighter...

but that's an even better avatar. wario, you devilish bastard.

also this means that squirtle jab isn't guaranteed, just that the opponent has to be frame perfect in order to shield it? makes sense, it's always failed for me every now and then.

Yeah, it's not an option select, but our options are much safer than the opponent's overall there.

Squirtle Jab1 is guaranteed; either all grab-releasers get out on Frame 29 and opponents can buffer like normal, or Squirtle gets out on Frame 30 and grab-releasees cannot buffer moves. Either way, it works, which is why Zero Suit Samus gets free Jab1 on grab-releases close to her, too. Perhaps you just pressed the Jab input a little too late. It's happened to me a couple times.

However, the SDI multiplier for our Jab combo is higher than most moves, so it isn't hard to SDI away from Squirtle and punish. That's where the F-Tilt comes in.

 

[Aposl]

jab shield is a good option for players who expect double jab for a trip opportunity to go wrong just look out for grabs, you can also do jab f-tilt or d-tilt. but I usually do these when I am styling on someone or just reading the mess out of em...

 

[TheReflexWonder]

jab shield is a good option for players who expect double jab for a trip opportunity to go wrong just look out for grabs, you can also do jab f-tilt or d-tilt. but I usually do these when I am styling on someone or just reading the mess out of em...

You should never stop your Jab combo if the first one hits. You can't cancel it into anything useful--Snake can U-Tilt you if you try to shield after the first hit, so anything faster than that can and will get you. Buffered grabs, jabs...They'll eat you alive. Don't rely on things that only work on people who don't know any better.

 

[CoonTail]

You should never stop your Jab combo if the first one hits. You can't cancel it into anything useful--Snake can U-Tilt you if you try to shield after the first hit, so anything faster than that can and will get you. Buffered grabs, jabs...They'll eat you alive. Don't rely on things that only work on people who don't know any better.

Fair enough Luis my only problem is that I get a re-grab out of trip on jab 2 A LOT. Are we really sure it is only a 20% chance of trip because Vinnie has been asking me about it since it happens more than the 20% it is listed as.

 

[Myollnir]

Just a fun thing : the glitch with the AFA on YI actually cancel the RCO lag.
Also, if you crawldash on a slope, you can slide a bit. For example, you can dash towards the platform on YI and land on the slope while crawldashing. I know this is almost useless, but it's fun :D

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Just a fun thing : the glitch with the AFA on YI actually cancel the RCO lag.
Also, if you crawldash on a slope, you can slide a bit. For example, you can dash towards the platform on YI and land on the slope while crawldashing. I know this is almost useless, but it's fun :D

what is crawldashing?

what is afa?

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

Wait

Jab2 has a 20% to trip someone? Always thought it was higher.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

what is crawldashing?

what is afa?

AFA is "Aerial Forward-A." Most people just say F-Air these days.

 

[CoonTail]

what is crawldashing?

what is afa?

I'm with miles here and this terminology confused me thoroughly. What is crawl dashing?

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

Crawldashing is really unknown, but it's quite good.
But hard to do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=u6Dj9UiUgGE#t=120s

 

[Tesh]

Crawldashing is really unknown, but it's quite good.
But hard to do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=u6Dj9UiUgGE#t=120s

wow why hasnt this been fully explored with like...everyone?

 

[Myollnir]

Only a few characters can slide. Sheik has the best slide, Squirtle has a nice one, Ivysaur has a poor one.

 

[Tesh]

well i figured you have to have a crawl and poor traction for it to work, but...wario?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

wow why hasnt this been fully explored with like...everyone?

You know how you normally slide downward when landing on a slope? A crawldash basically redirects the sliding distance backward.

It hardly makes a difference in most cases. It's useful for Sheik, Squirtle, Snake, and Yoshi, basically. Maybe Diddy. The most important thing is what you can do afterward, and most crawling characters don't have much they can do. Others, like Ivysaur, can't redirect the slide in another direction, since any movement from crawling is canceled almost immediately.

That said, Sheik, Snake, and Yoshi should definitely do it more often, and it couldn't hurt to do every now and again when we're cornered as Squirtle. Not sure how well it works on Lylat, but slopes on Rainbow Cruise (like both edges of the ship) and Yoshi's Island are certainly useful.

 

[Myollnir]

Speaking of YI, is it a good CP for PT?
Squirtle can slide with his AFA, but I don't know if Ivysaur & Charizard can be advantaged by the stage. I know we can Zero Switch too, but I can't do it consistently

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Speaking about YI, is it a good CP for PT?
Squirtle can slide with his AFA, but I don't know if Ivysaur & Charizard can be advantaged by the stage. I know we can Zero Switch too, but I can't do it consistently

We can't Zero Switch consistently, since the movement of the platform appears to be random.

I like the level as Ivysaur (always have a platform to play around, and it helps deal with aerial approaches, which Ivysaur struggles with) and Charizard (helps Flamethrower camping, we live for a long time), but it's a matter of personal preference.

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

so how do you do a crawl dash?

and the slide is initiated by doing a dair into a slope?

 

[Myollnir]

Ok, thanks!

Also, we can wall-cling as Squirtle, I find this useful in some cases because if we already used our DJ, it actually gives us another DJ if we don't leave the wall. I like to cancel my Bair on the slope after the wall-cling DJ.

By the way, what are PT's best stages?
My favorite CP is Halberd, I also like PS1 (personal preference I guess) & SV (maybe because I'm french )

 

[TheReflexWonder]

so how do you do a crawl dash?

and the slide is initiated by doing a dair into a slope?

You crawldash by landing on a slope and immediately starting a crawl backward when you land. No, you can't hold down-back while falling; you have to time it well.

The slide is initiated by landing on a slope. You'll get the slide regardless of whether or not you do an aerial, but you can't crawldash if you do a landing aerial, since you have landing lag in that case. I -think- you get more of a slide if you are moving in the direction of the slope before landing and/or are fastfalling.

Ok, thanks!

Also, we can wall-cling as Squirtle, I find this useful in some cases because if we already used our DJ, it actually gives us another DJ if we don't leave the wall. I like to cancel my Bair on the slope after the wall-cling DJ.

By the way, what are PT's best stages?
My favorite CP is Halberd, I also like PS1 (personal preference I guess) & SV (maybe because I'm french )

The wall cling can help, too, yeah. Doesn't do a lot outside of stalling, but, every little bit helps.

I really dislike Halberd, despite the fact that I like Yoshi's Island (as PT). Strange. Main things are, the ceiling is low, which minimizes DI as a factor, and being able to go through the stage doesn't really help PT at all. Otherwise, I suppose it's very similar to Yoshi's Island, which Ivysaur and Charizard like.

I like Smashville (simple stage that we can Zero Switch on), Battlefield (I like platforms) Yoshi's Island (the stuff I mentioned at the beginning), and Stadium 1 (easy switching and lots of stage abuse, like Squirtle F-Tilt locks). I've appeared to move away from using gimmicky stages, as I seem to be good at simply outplaying people.

 

[Myollnir]

I find the low ceiling really useful, especially with Ivy
Thanks for your answer anyway

 

[T-block]

PT's best stages in general are probably SV and PS1 at the moment.

Battlefield is all right, but Charizard is severely cramped on that stage. Squirtle and Ivysaur love it, but Charizard has a pretty rough time against anyone who can juggle decently (I used to pick BF for Marth, but I stay away from it now for that reason). Same thing with Lylat Cruise. I think Lylat Cruise might be one of Ivysaur's best stages, but Charizard does so poorly there that I never really end up CP'ing Lylat. If you don't really need Charizard for a certain matchup, Lylat is also one of PT's best stages imo, if you can recognize where you can get free switches.

(If Pictochat is legal, that's pretty much our best stage hands down... I even CP'd Diddy to Pictochat back in the day )

 

[Dre89]

I was looking at the most forgotten move in the game, uncharged watergun and I was wondering if it had any uses.

It appears to have a much bigger hitbox in the air than on the ground, pretty much his only his disjoint that covers that sort of area. FH retreating uncharged watergun covers basically the entire fullhop distance in front of him. It might also be safe on certain shields if spaced correctly.

It's obviously not spammable and would have to be an infrequent mix up, but I just wanted to know what you guys think.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

It has a large hitbox, but the move doesn't send people anywhere, has a lot of endlag, and is easy to SDI. The only good use it appears to have is covering one side of you while you fall to the ground in order to prevent characters from attacking you from the side. It only works because you can retreat while using it in the air

 

[T-block]

I can't think of a situation for uncharged Water Gun where I wouldn't rather use d-air.

 

[Dre89]

Firstly, if you're facing the opponent you can't bair.

Secondly, it covers a larger area than bair and is disjointed, meaning it will probably beat out non disjointed well spaced aerials.

 

[Myollnir]

Just use it on SV's balloon to refresh your moves