• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Squirtle MU Advice

Valkauv

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 19, 2015
Messages
19
I'm currently a Lucas main, and whenever I play Netplay, I always seem to get bodied by Squirtles, more so than a lot of characters. It's probably a personal thing, but I don't know. I'm relatively new to the game.

So, Squirtle mains of Smashboards, I ask you the following:
1. What options for approach would a Squirtle generally look for? When would he want to rush down the opponent, and when would he want to hang back and wait patiently?
2. What options does Squirtle have to escape being rushed down?
3. Which ways should I try to DI out of his combos?
4. What tricks would Squirtle abuse?
5. When should Squirtle be approached? After what moves/actions is Squirtle most vulnerable?

These may seem like a lot of questions, but you don't have to answer them all. I was just looking for some general advice from the Squirtle boards.

Thanks!
 

Daftatt

"float like a puffball, sting like a knee"
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Messages
1,219
Location
Olympia, WA
NNID
Daftatt
A great lucas specific tip would be to hold out psi-magnet and drift towards squirtle, it'll force him out of his space and can of course combo. Psi magnet is in general an amazing wall for all of squirtle's grounded approaches and it will absorb both watergun and bubble.

Approaching down onto from an angle (not straight down) him with dair is also very effective to starting tech chases, though he is very slidy if he doesn't tech which is often the best option since his tech rolls are terrible.

I'm currently a Lucas main, and whenever I play Netplay, I always seem to get bodied by Squirtles, more so than a lot of characters. It's probably a personal thing, but I don't know. I'm relatively new to the game.

So, Squirtle mains of Smashboards, I ask you the following:
1. What options for approach would a Squirtle generally look for? When would he want to rush down the opponent, and when would he want to hang back and wait patiently?
2. What options does Squirtle have to escape being rushed down?
3. Which ways should I try to DI out of his combos?
4. What tricks would Squirtle abuse?
5. When should Squirtle be approached? After what moves/actions is Squirtle most vulnerable?

These may seem like a lot of questions, but you don't have to answer them all. I was just looking for some general advice from the Squirtle boards.

Thanks!
1. Squirtle loves when you whiff moves, he'll withdraw (side-B) in at you if he's in the air. If he's on the ground he'll likely slingjump aerial you or if he's in shellshift he can hydrograb you. If the squirtle isn't very technical you might see bubble and watergun used a lot from short hop. Bubble and watergun are good moves used by all levels of squirtle players though, the moves can zone (though they're unsafe to spam) and if you miss the bubble tech (assuming you don't shield) or don't shield DI the watergun away (or get hit) they attempt to convert into grab or D-smash or at high percent they may go for a kill with aquajet or Up-smash.

Squirtle is at his core a hit and run character like pikachu, he has poor disjoint and is pretty light however his movement is unparalleled and once he gets in on you he can wreck you then get away. Squirtle's Dash dance... err, shellshifting is incredibly fast and complex and difficult to read. It can threaten a huge amount of the stage if you are caught over-extending but it is also his most vulnerable state to be rushed down (more on that below).

Don't just throw out moves against squirtle hoping he'll run into them, when he settles into his dash dance you need to aggressively challenge his stage control with hitboxes while making sure to bait & dodge his anti-play (usually a grab or D-smash). Rapidly closing his non-threatened space with a move is very effective for creating an opening, aggressive zoning to the point of outright pressure is what you want against squirtle. Never open up the stage for him to slide around on or neutral become dramatically in his favor.

2. Squirtle's best option for getting out of harms way is wavedashing and shellshifting, he can also grounded-bubble you which has incredible disjoint but can be dodged and punished with a jump. Beware of his pivot-grab, it's incredibly fast and moves squirtle forward a lot flipping stage control in an instant.

Fadeback Watergun is also effective at keeping you out if you attempt to approach, SHFFL bair is his best way to aerial wall though it isn't good. He'll almost always attempt to punish with grab, wall with watergun/bubble, or (most likely) escape past you to the other side of the stage and start dash dancing.

3. At low percents DI-away usually does the trick for most moves, at mid-high percents you'll have to start being careful with DI traps on his throws. U-throw with DI towards combos into waterfall which can kill off the top, however D-throw with DI away kills off the side, and F-throw with DI towards combos into Fair and Aquajet which are also a DI trap as they kill off the side and top with opposite DIs.

Withdraw is specific, at early low percents you can CC it (along with most of squirtle's moves besides bubble) but if you get hit you'll have to read Squirtle's AC (air control). If squirtle doesn't AC to slow down out of withdraw at low percents and you DI towards you'll escape or at worst be knicked by a Bair and then escape.

There is a sweetspot of percents when withdraw auto-combos (Uair autocombos the longest), if you DI towards squirtle can Bair or Uair you and if you don't DI those away it will combo. If you don't DI at the auto-combo range you'll get hit by Nair which will convert to an edgeguard and another Nair if you DI towards or fair if you DI away, I suggest going for DI towards and tanking Nair with another DI towards because it'll put you higher up and in better position to avoid being edgeguarded while you recover. If you just DI withdraw away you can get hit by another withdraw or Fair, and if it hits you offstage it sends you low into a really terrible position, so don't ever DI away in the auto-combo range.

At high percents (even late Mid percents) withdraw will most definitely send you offstage but will only combo if you DI towards, so DI slightly away to avoid going too low offstage (you could also try and go for a slide-off with SDI+ASDI)

Nair, Fair you ALWAYS want to DI towards (up) or risk getting combod offstage into death.

4. Abuse is probably the wrong word but squirtle will definitely use a few really unique options.

First is hydrograb, when squirtle goes into shellshift (his turnaround) he can JC grab out in a certain frame window to fly across the stage and grab someone. His Grab box is only out for 2 frames so spot dodging usually can avoid this option, he'll slide past you and you punish him in his grab endlag. But keep in mind this option comes out incredibly fast and has amazing range (about 1/2 of FD).

Next he'll use his fantastic Up-B Waterfall to stuff your edgeguards, the best solution for onstage edgeguarding is simply to stand at the edge of the stage, only edgeguard from onstage if squirtle is recovering from close offstage. If he drops low he'll be going for a sweetspot so immediately take ledge. If he starts waterfall closer to the height of ledge he is trying to hit you so hold shield and angle it down to avoid a shieldstab. When squirtle enters special fall then you can punish. If he is recovering from far you should always take ledge (offstage edgeguarding is REALLY risky vs squirtle) and try to edgehog, or if he just makes it onto stage punish the special fall.

Above all else, a good squirtle will use movement constantly to manipulate stage control and try and put you in bad situations. Remaining careful as you move and zone is key to avoid getting bodied, but letting squirtle have too much space puts you at a huge disadvantage in neutral.

5. WIP
 
Last edited:

Valkauv

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 19, 2015
Messages
19
1. Squirtle loves when you whiff moves, he'll withdraw (side-B) in at you if he's in the air. If he's on the ground he'll likely slingjump aerial you or if he's in shellshift he can hydrograb you. If the squirtle isn't very technical you might see bubble and watergun used a lot from short hop. Bubble and watergun are good moves used by all levels of squirtle players though, the moves can zone (though they're unsafe to spam) and if you miss the bubble tech (assuming you don't shield) or don't shield DI the watergun away (or get hit) they attempt to convert into grab or D-smash or at high percent they may go for a kill with aquajet or Up-smash.

Squirtle is at his core a hit and run character like pikachu, he has poor disjoint and is pretty light however his movement is unparalleled and once he gets in on you he can wreck you then get away. Squirtle's Dash dance... err, shellshifting is incredibly fast and complex and difficult to read. It can threaten a huge amount of the stage if you are caught over-extending but it is also his most vulnerable state to be rushed down (more on that below).

Don't just throw out moves against squirtle hoping he'll run into them, when he settles into his dash dance you need to aggressively challenge his stage control with hitboxes while making sure to bait & dodge his anti-play (usually a grab or D-smash). Rapidly closing his non-threatened space with a move is very effective for creating an opening, aggressive zoning to the point of outright pressure is what you want against squirtle. Never open up the stage for him to slide around on or neutral become dramatically in his favor.

2. Squirtle's best option for getting out of harms way is wavedashing and shellshifting, he can also grounded-bubble you which has incredible disjoint but can be dodged and punished with a jump. Beware of his pivot-grab, it's incredibly fast and moves squirtle forward a lot flipping stage control in an instant.

Fadeback Watergun is also effective at keeping you out if you attempt to approach, SHFFL bair is his best way to aerial wall though it isn't good. He'll almost always attempt to punish with grab, wall with watergun/bubble, or (most likely) escape past you to the other side of the stage and start dash dancing.

3. At low percents DI-away usually does the trick for most moves, at mid-high percents you'll have to start being careful with DI traps on his throws. U-throw with DI towards combos into waterfall which can kill off the top, however D-throw with DI away kills off the side, and F-throw with DI towards combos into Fair and Aquajet which are also a DI trap as they kill off the side and top with opposite DIs.

Withdraw is specific, at early low percents you can CC it (along with most of squirtle's moves besides bubble) but if you get hit you'll have to read Squirtle's AC (air control). If squirtle doesn't AC to slow down out of withdraw at low percents and you DI towards you'll escape or at worst be knicked by a Bair and then escape.

There is a sweetspot of percents when withdraw auto-combos, if you DI towards squirtle can Bair or Uair you and if you don't DI those away it will combo. If you don't DI at the auto-combo range you'll get hit by Nair which will convert to an edgeguard and another Nair if you DI towards or fair if you DI away, I suggest going for DI towards and tanking Nair with another DI towards because it'll put you higher up and in better position to avoid being edgeguarded while you recover. If you just DI withdraw away you can get hit by another withdraw or Fair, and if it hits you offstage it sends you low into a really terrible position, so don't ever DI away in the auto-combo range.

At high percents (even late Mid percents) withdraw will most definitely send you offstage but will only combo if you DI towards, so DI slightly away to avoid going too low offstage (you could also try and go for a slide-off with SDI+ASDI)
This helped a ton. Thanks for the advice! :)
 

Daftatt

"float like a puffball, sting like a knee"
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Messages
1,219
Location
Olympia, WA
NNID
Daftatt
This helped a ton. Thanks for the advice! :)
I added some more tips to the first post

Also on the DI for withdraw, at low percents due to lucas' pretty high fall speed, you can DI down to hit the ground immediately and escape that way.

haven't really got a complete answer for 5, but when squirtle withdraws onto the ground he has no safe way out if he doesn't hit anything (including shield, don't shield it instead you should spot dodge it) and he has to stop the move which puts him in a lot of lag.

Bubble puts him in endlag, so try and shield that and punish.

D-smash has punishable endlag, so try and avoid that by jumping (shielding is second best option) and then punish it.
 
Last edited:

Life

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
5,264
Location
Grieving No Longer
If you're really quick on the draw (despite the netplay environment), try grabbing Squirtle out of Withdraw if that's how he approaches.
 

Daftatt

"float like a puffball, sting like a knee"
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Messages
1,219
Location
Olympia, WA
NNID
Daftatt
If you're really quick on the draw (despite the netplay environment), try grabbing Squirtle out of Withdraw if that's how he approaches.
pivot grabbing is the easiest method in my experience
 

Life

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 19, 2010
Messages
5,264
Location
Grieving No Longer
pivot grabbing is the easiest method in my experience
Depends on the characters. Some run faster than Withdraw and thus don't really get much by trying to pivot grab.

Can't speak for Lucas, but I used to do it to Blue Dew when I played Pit back in 3.02.
 
Last edited:

Jamwa

Smash Champion
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
2,045
Location
cave plantation
Depends on the characters. Some run faster than Withdraw and thus don't really get much by trying to pivot grab.

Can't speak for Lucas, but I used to do it to Blue Dew when I played Pit back in 3.02.
lucas would need to pivot grab, since his grab is very very slow

Psi magnet is in general an amazing wall for all of squirtle's grounded approaches and it will absorb both watergun and bubble.
Psi Mag's absorb box is actually as small as the release hitbox, so it barely absorbs anything anymore, and you are pushed back when you absorb stuff. it'd be a small chance that lucas actually absorbs all three water guns/bubble if the squirtle is knowledgeable of this, so i wouldnt rely on absorbing anything
 

Daftatt

"float like a puffball, sting like a knee"
Joined
Mar 16, 2013
Messages
1,219
Location
Olympia, WA
NNID
Daftatt
it'd be a small chance that lucas actually absorbs all three water guns/bubble if the squirtle is knowledgeable of this, so i wouldnt rely on absorbing anything
Good point, I was more putting it up as a really good answer to hydrograb and grounded bubble. It's not reliable at all against aerial bubble and watergun
 

Kei_Takaro

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 3, 2009
Messages
1,007
Location
Underneath FD
Great thread! I got rekt by a Squirtle yesterday in brackets 2-0.
I was hoping to learn his MU against Sonic since I only started analyzing during the sets.

I'm having trouble on both neutral and edgeguarding using Sonic:
Squirtle's Side-B, UpSmash, Grab mixups and Aerial bubble walls basically took out most of my Sonic's BNB options.

See, my playstyle mostly revolves in off-stage kills, however I haven't quite figured out a cookie cutter way to still do this without eating up a sweetspot waterfall.
Realizing this, I had to make do with on-stage D-Smashes.

Any tips?
 
Top Bottom