Spooktacular Stages: Luigi Stage Discussion

[Swoops]

Hi Everybody,

I just want to get this discussion started because in my first couple of tournaments, I had no idea which stages I would counterpick to! No one else really knew what to ban either lol. So, I started thinking about what stages might benefit Luigi the most.

Now most of us had only so much time with Weegee in this game, but that doesn't mean we can't have the important discussion of stage choice. Personally, I think his neutral is actually pretty solid in this game. FAir got a hitbox buff and is a quick and safe aerial disrupter provided you weave in and out correctly. Fireball is a great option to have out most of the time, only being unsafe if the opponent gets in your face with shield. Finally tornado is a fantastic GTFO and disrupter move, clashing with most projectiles (and lots of normal attacks, resetting him to neutral.) I have noticed that it beats out quite a few options of other characters and sucks in semi-reliably for the full hit.

He also has pretty subpar recovery, and relies heavily on his "use-it-or-die" double jump. With this in mind, and that stage legality is still very much up in the air, I'd like to start discussing the stage I'm most interested in as a CP:

Windy Hill Zone
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This is a pretty sizeable stage, which means some people think it might only end up in doubles. But it also means that Luigi gets a lot of room to work with. The edgeguarding factor is largely removed with this stage, with a variety of options to get back on stage should you ever find yourself near the ledge. It also has a relatively low blast ceiling, allowing for easier DThrow > UpB kills, usmash kills, fsmash (upangle) kills, and cyclone kills. Platforms can get in the way of some Luigi combos, but there is a lot of space to work with here. The only possible down side is run-away, particularly near the left side of the stage. This might not be a problem in practice though.

Thoughts? Let the discussion commence!

 

[Swoops]

Reserved, because who knows what the future holds.

 

[Swoops]

Bump. No thoughts anybody? C'mon now. I know the excitement is high with tourney placings and chain grabs, but the stage selection is going to be important down the road.

Personally, after playing this stage more I'm finding my initial thoughts to be pretty accurate. Springs can mess you up as well, but they aren't there permanently. The sheer amount of safe places to recover is really helpful for Weegee, and testing dthrow > UpB, the blast zones are definitely closer at least for the ceiling. I'll post up percentage differences when I can, but DThrow > UpB killed at least 10% earlier on WHZ than Battlefield, same character same conditions.

In fact the camping problem I was worried about doesn't seem to be very present. At first I thought the left most platforms had solid walls/floors, but they are two drop through platforms. Given that this stage becomes legal, I think this might be our go to.

After this gets done I'll probably go into Castle Siege, but one stage at a time.

 

[hey_there]

I like Battlefield as Luigi (who doesn't?). Something about the stage not being very big forces close combat in which Luigi can really lay into his opponents. It's also hard to camp on BF, so Luigi's slow aerial movement isn't as much of a problem in approaching. I haven't played much of the Wii U version yet, but you've got me interested in Windy Hill Zone.

 

[GreenFlame]

Haven't played the Wii U version, so I can't give thoughts on that stage by experience, but it looks good for him. The only way you could find out accurately is through actual matches/testing though.

And yes, Luigi's biggest weakness seems to be his short range, so maybe smaller stages are better for him. I really can't say much about what stages work best for what characters, as I'm relatively inexperienced in that matter.

 

[Luigisama]

I think windy hill zone is banned for my region.

 

[Swoops]

I like Battlefield as Luigi (who doesn't?). Something about the stage not being very big forces close combat in which Luigi can really lay into his opponents. It's also hard to camp on BF, so Luigi's slow aerial movement isn't as much of a problem in approaching. I haven't played much of the Wii U version yet, but you've got me interested in Windy Hill Zone.

Sometimes I feel like platforms can kind of hinder his combo game, but I think I might change my mind on that over time. It just seemed like a lot of other characters benefit more from platforms than him (ie ROB with USmash/UTilt.) I worry about them being disruptive to DThrow > UpB/other stuff. I'm probably looking to much into it though.

I think windy hill zone is banned for my region.

Yea, I see it varying really. Some tournaments I've went to used it, others not so much. The fact that people still seem to be playing the 3DS version. I probably didn't pick the most accessible stage to start >.<

 

[hey_there]

Sometimes I feel like platforms can kind of hinder his combo game, but I think I might change my mind on that over time. It just seemed like a lot of other characters benefit more from platforms than him (ie ROB with USmash/UTilt.) I worry about them being disruptive to DThrow > UpB/other stuff. I'm probably looking to much into it though.

dthrow -> upb works the same with platforms around, and even better if you get it from a platform (KO at 80%? yes please). And if your opponent lands on a platform in the middle of an aerial combo, it's easy to follow up with uair/fair from beneath while being protected by the platform.

 

[Donyoku]

From the stage list of the Wii U version I doubt Windy Hill will be on it for the simple fact that too much is going on in it. I personally don't think its a bad stage but, normally stages like this will be banned. The stages I think we will have at most tournaments on are: Battlefield, FD, Delfino, Halberd, Kalos Pokemon League, Lylat Cruise, skyloft, skyworld,and Wuhu island. There may be more but at a glace these are the ones I see to be legal and some what variety between them.

 

[Swoops]

From the stage list of the Wii U version I doubt Windy Hill will be on it for the simple fact that too much is going on in it. I personally don't think its a bad stage but, normally stages like this will be banned. The stages I think we will have at most tournaments on are: Battlefield, FD, Delfino, Halberd, Kalos Pokemon League, Lylat Cruise, skyloft, skyworld,and Wuhu island. There may be more but at a glace these are the ones I see to be legal and some what variety between them.

I reeeeallly doubt that Kalos and Skyworld will make it, but I don't want to make this a legality discussion.

In the interest of keeping the discussion rolling in this thread, we'll table the discussion on WHZ since it's legality is in question. I want to keep the discussion from getting too boring though, so I was trying to opt out of discussion on FD, Battlefield, etc., at least for now. We've all played on those quite a bit. So, we'll move on to something I'm pretty sure most everybody agrees will be legal:

Duck Hunt!
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I think this is a fantastic new stage with a lot of fun strategy to be had. It is a completely level stage with one exception. (I'll get to the dog later) It has walls for the edges beneath the stage. It has no hazards. It consists of five small platforms in the tree in the upper left hand corner of the stage. On the right side of the stage is a bush with a platform. All of these platforms are flat and are built slightly inside the bush. On the main level of the stage, a tuft of grass occasionally appears, with most characters being able to hide just barely behind it. This goes away after a brief period.

You will notice the ducks that periodically fly around the arena's background. These can be hit! They do no damage to you, but can interfere with certain projectiles and will fall down when hit. How the ducks are hit or not hit will determine where the dog appears to pick them up, which is this stage's final platform. If the ducks are not hit, the dog will come up in the center and cause players to rage while it laughs at them. The dog comes up from the ground level, so if you are standing where the dog comes up, you will be taken up with it. Think Delfino's platforms taking you up through the ground.

Overall I think this is a highly entertaining stage, with a unique platform lay out, and even the ability to strategically place platforms or hide movements/moves behind the tufts of grass. It's a mixed bag for Luigi, as it doesn't have as many lower platforms that he can take advantage of, but he can certainly use the ones present effectively. His jump heights and quick aerials allow you to pressure anyone on the tree quite effectively, and you can put someone in a bad spot if they get caught on the rightmost platform or dog. Meanwhile, tuft of grass is fun for occasionally shielding your movements from the player, allowing you to get out fireballs or surprise dash grabs/smash attacks.

Personally, I think he gets a couple of good recovery options with the tree on the left, being able to cyclone or missile on top of it if he chooses. The walled stage also does him favors in that he doesn't get caught underneath anything.

Thoughts for anyone lucky enough to play on this stage? I will make sure to update the OP when I get a chance.

 

[L9L]

Nice write up on Duck Hunt. I agree with your observations, I love that stage. The tree on the left makes recovering unique; you can recover high and land on a platform to try and evade edgeguarding, and Luigi's quick, damaging aerials help to make those platforms dangerous for an opponent to use. Apart from Battlefield, it's currently the stage I feel most comfortable on!

Also worth discussing: Skyloft and Wuhu Island. I think Luigi's mobility and aerials can do him a big favor on touring stages. Many of the stops help to break up an opponent's attempt to zone him out, and the shifting layouts give Luigi plenty of opportunities to capitalize with his strong smash attacks and grab game. There are some excellent write-ups in the Smash Academy section examining Wuhu and Skyloft for those interested. I hope to see these stages more in casual and tournament play!