Spinstool Spike Applications (Bonus Stomp Tech!)

[Espy Rose]

VIDEO (by Camalange ):

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The following is a list of characters of which FSJ > Dair is guaranteed to spike. This is done by buffering dair immediately out of a Footstool.

Miis were only tested on Medium size.

FSJ > Dair

Will Work:



Will Work, but cannot be buffered. These are done by holding your control stick in the opposite direction that you're facing, and hitting dair a moment after the footstool jump. It cannot be buffered!:
*

*Hold the dair just a moment longer than the rest on this list.

**Any Character not on this list avoids the entire setup. Keep that in mind.**

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VIDEO:

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True and Tonic helped me out with some data that I never bothered finishing. Not sure if it matters since most places are starting to ban customs, but here's the data for %-thresholds for Stomp from a footstool. These setups will work from 0% through to the percentage shown for the character.

The setup is typically (unless noted otherwise) done by buffering Stomp IMMEDIATELY after the footstool animation. Footstool is possible primarily from hit confirms out of SDJ or SDR > SDJ. Remember, this is only with Sonic's custom Stomp (2nd Homing Attack Custom). Either hit, charged or uncharged, will work so long as you hit them after they hit the ground.

Here you go:

Footstool > Stomp Jablock:

- 78%
- 80%
- 81%
- 83%
- 84%
- 85%
- 86%
- 88%
- 89%
- 90%
- 91%
- 92%
- 93%
[] - 94% (Only tested on Medium sized Mii)
- 95%
- 96%
- 97%
- 98%
- 100%
- 101%
- 103%
- 105%
- 108%

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That's about it.

 

[The_Paradiddler]

Thanks Espy, especially for the spike stuff. If it really is guaranteed this should give sonic one of the easiest spike setups in the game and change a lot of high tier matchups like pika

Perhaps @ Rucent should update the matchup threads to include this? Seems worth it.

 

[Rucent]

I think it is a good time to start writing more on customs in the MU thread. And its really helpful that you included character specific percents and details as well. To be honest this is what made me want to try customs more. LOL Not BSD or HSD, but Footstooling into Stomp. Thank you @ Espy Rose & @ The_Paradiddler

 

[The_Paradiddler]

apparently @ kid craft 24/sonic master has been doing the dair combo for months and he didn't TELL ANYONE ://///////// THANKSSSSSSSS

lul

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

People on NE have tagged that as "The Craftis combo" since like January.
Also the footstool into Dair does in fact work on Luigi but requires the dair to be slightly delayed due to luigi's fall speed.

We also get spin charge into raw dair into a guaranteed footstool KO on characters like sheik, fox, and ZSS.
usually starts around 30 and ends around 65-70 depending on rage. Once i get proper recording equipment I was gonna make a detailed guide on how to properly do spin charge > dair spike > footstool.

 

[Espy Rose]

I discovered all of this last year. I had no means of recording it though.

I'll redo tests on Luigi.

This thread is in concerns to guaranteed setups that are feasible. Since SDJ > Dair spike works on pretty much the entirety of the cast based on your execution, I felt it unnecessary to dedicate an entire post to it.

 

[2-DJeff]

So after this post i thought up of some stuff hes some samples https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5EWwN89zo4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnreqTJn_sg

 

[Espy Rose]

First video isn't guaranteed but decent. Second one is already in the op

 

[2-DJeff]

Yeah the first one isnt guaranteed but its just a mix up. it's a good chance of landing that because people wont really expect it. but just theory crafting is all! hopefully by the next few days i can think of some stuff. Thanks Man :D

 

[Espy Rose]

It may work, but in my experience if players don't tech it they just airdodge. Still guarantees fsmash though.

 

[The_Paradiddler]

is there always a footstool to be had after dair spike lands? Seems like sometimes it lines up and other times it doesnt.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Basically when the dair spike lands you need to adjust to the launch trajectory before your jump.

For example if I dair spike fox and he is positioned somewhat in front of me i'll jump forward to try and footstool as opposed to say sheik who may end up a bit behind me or ZSS who is directly below me.

Then theres also ways you can mess up the dair and miss the spike entirely which that depends on how you angle yourself after you jump. For characters like fox, or mario I usually hold back and then forward before I dair spike, while ZSS i'l hold forward then pull back.

 

[Espy Rose]

Generally speaking, most of the characters won't make it back after 65% anyways, so the footstool isn't entirely necessary

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

I usually just footstool for insurance purposes. That and we can KO fox as early as 40% vs a majority of the cast when a fooststool is used due to it causing them to have to wait even longer before they can act and in some cases (usually the characters with fast falling speed) they just get outright KO'd before the footstool cooldown ends.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I totally forgot aboyt footstool stomp. Im gonna start using stomp more against certain characters

 

[2-DJeff]

I feel that if you SC in the air and spike them without hitting the ground that would be a good reason to footstool them after the spike so you can recover

 

[Camalange]

I remember this being discussed quite some time ago, so thank you guys for all your hard work.

I'm definitely interested to practice the FSJ>Dair set-ups and memorizing percents, as I'm pretty much done with customs these days. Still valuable information for those continuing to pursue a customs meta.

 

[J.APS]

at higher % (enemy, like..80%-90%) better use SC (low knockback) for the footstool

 

[Espy Rose]

Generally speaking, both spins work, but yeah. Sc is easier to execute with once you pass the desirable percents.

 

[ShadowKing]

Something I can add to my notes nice job on this now I know what percentage will spike for each character

 

[Camalange]

Not that it's as difficult, but did we document the percents at which it's easiest to get SC > FSJ > HA on characters? Feel like we have.

 

[Lizam]

Cheers, Espy.

I'm loving how FSJ>dair>FSJ can give us such an early kill option against Shiek especially.

For those with tap-jump on, I'm finding it a lot easier to buffer a dair while footstooling with "Up".

 

[Black_14]

Can someone try this out, cuz not sure can this be DId. My bro mashed buttons in middle of this combo, but not sure if he DId. Thx!

 

[Espy Rose]

Offstage hit isn't guaranteed. Everything else is, but di will shorten the damage.

 

[AJDOH]

Been trying to do this setup forever now, but it's really impractical. The spike one, I mean. It's better to just go for the upair and setup the 50/50.
But by all means, if you see it, go for it.

 

[Camalange]

Been trying to do this setup forever now, but it's really impractical. The spike one, I mean. It's better to just go for the upair and setup the 50/50.
But by all means, if you see it, go for it.

I don't think it's that impractical.

I've seen Espy pull it off during a tournament match. Some characters are easier than others, too.

DK gets hit by the spike like, every time. And the set-up only requires a hit confirm from a spin charge near the ledge. The percentage window on most of the cast is quite large too. The FSJ > Dair is super easy once you confirm, it's just that some on characters the Dair timing is a lot trickier.

I think I want to exploit this against DK since it works in a large percentage window, has one of the easiest FSJ>Dair spike guarantees, he has a bad vertical recovery, and we're going to see a lot more of DK with his new buffs...

 

[Espy Rose]

If they ever get uploaded, I have plenty of examples from my last major tournament I entered where I FSJ > Dair spiked. It's really easy as long as the timing is right.

 

[Camalange]

Been trying to do this setup forever now, but it's really impractical. The spike one, I mean. It's better to just go for the upair and setup the 50/50.
But by all means, if you see it, go for it.

If they ever get uploaded, I have plenty of examples from my last major tournament I entered where I FSJ > Dair spiked. It's really easy as long as the timing is right.

This has actually convinced me only further that we need to be abusing this even more.

 

[AJDOH]

This has actually convinced me only further that we need to be abusing this even more.

Never tried doing it with the slow spindash, maybe it will help.


[Edit instead of flooding]
Played around in the lab. Yoshi's is the first one I was able to do of the specific timings. The timing is to basically dair as soon as it's out of the category of being buffered. You'll a feel for it, Easy isn't the word, but Hard or Hardest isn't either.

 

[Camalange]

Spin Charge is probably the easiest.

 

[Sonicrida]

Never tried doing it with the slow spindash, maybe it will help.

What is the slow spin dash? Single charge on SC?

It's better to just go for the upair and setup the 50/50.

Which 50/50 are you referring to?

 

[Camalange]

What is the slow spin dash? Single charge on SC?

I think he means like, the Lyric Roll (lol).

 

[da K.I.D.]

Alright espy. Youve forced my hand. I was going to stick to just spincharge dair, but after watching pikachu of all characters get blown up. I have to implement the footstoll dair now

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

The only thing that hinders this techniwues usage is the fact in order to gain a kill off this setup the opponent has to be position close enough to the ledge. Which over time as people become more aware of this being a possible option they will try to stay closer to center stage. I know a lot of players in my region now do this given that ive done these types of setups to just about everyone at some point. Still manages to catch people off guard though when it works. And it feels sooo good to end a stock at under 50% because they cant recover from the footstool dair footstool.

 

[da K.I.D.]

If they are panickeded to stay center stage, then they have that means they are limiting their options which should make it easier to punish them and get in their heads further.

 

[Espy Rose]

It's easy on Sheik too, KID.

 

[kid craft 24/sonic master]

Sheik we can do both the raw spin charge dair to footstool and the spinm charge footstool dair spike which is convenient. Imo its what helps make the MU somewhat doable given we have that as an ace in the hole.

 

[Camalange]

DK gets bodied by this.

EDIT:

Updated OP.
Can confirm this works on Luigi, but just with really strange timing. True combo.

 

[AJDOH]

What is the slow spin dash? Single charge on SC?



Which 50/50 are you referring to?

50/50 airdodge or jump out/attack
And yeah, what Camalange said. Still dont understand how spindash is slower than running in rise of lyric...

 

[Camalange]

50/50 airdodge or jump out/attack

If you can airdodge or jump or attack, I guess that doesn't really make it a 50/50 anymore.

(I get your point but I think he's asking what the set-up is).