Spammy Lucas

Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
5
#1
How do you deal with a Lucas (or Ness) that constantly spams the moves
For Lucas these "moves" are PK Freeze/Fire/Thunder, N-Air, Up Smash
For Ness these "moves" are PK Fire/Thunder, Back Throw, F-Air
Please help me I'm scared
 
Joined
Jan 11, 2019
Messages
36
Switch FC
SW-2558-6837-3970
#2
Best way to counter their special is to choose a character that can reflect projectiles. If their PK fire backfires, their option to rack up damage would be limited. Now that's out of the way, read your opponent's habit and exploit their patterns. Exploiting the pattern is one of the key factors to win.
 

Uffe

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 14, 2008
Messages
5,495
Location
Fresno
#3
PK Freeze can be shielded. You could probably just use your Plasma Breath from a distance when Lucas is using PK Freeze. If you're offstage, you'll either want to recover low, because that attack doesn't go deep. He might be able to 2 frame you if you're recovering with up B. Lucas' PK Fire is difficult to get around when you're using a large character. Be defensive and evasive. If there are platforms, go over PK Fire. I'm not sure how you can deal with Lucas' PK Thunder. I'd imagine maybe Ridley's fair/nair. If you're both on the ground, then again, use Plasma Breath. Or try to roll around the slow attack and strike Lucas with a dash attack or something. Maybe even go for a grab. You should not be getting hit by Lucas' up smash. I'm not sure why he'd even go for that attack unless you're always hovering above him. Nair is annoying. Maybe use a properly spaced fair against him, or shield it and punish out of shield with your own nair.

Jump over Ness' PK Fire. It doesn't work in the same manner as Lucas', so you can jump over it and punish him or you can shield it. You can probably even jump over it and go for side B. If you get caught in Ness' PK Fire, just DI away from the attack. Maybe DI upward and away if he's spamming PK Fire so that you can hopefully dodge the other one. Be prepared to deal with his fair or u-smash, though. Hit the head of Ness' PK Thunder if you're in the air. Nair, dair, maybe even up B aiming downward might be able to help Ridley here. If you're offstage, then try to nair/fair it if you can. Ness' grab range is lackluster in this game, so he shouldn't be grabbing you easily unless he manages to get a drag down uair > grab, or if he goes for PSI Magnet > grab. You have to be very defensive against Ness. Against his fair, use your fair. Ridley's fair is like a sword that out ranges Ness' fair. Look for openings when facing off against him.
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2019
Messages
5
#4
PK Freeze can be shielded. You could probably just use your Plasma Breath from a distance when Lucas is using PK Freeze. If you're offstage, you'll either want to recover low, because that attack doesn't go deep. He might be able to 2 frame you if you're recovering with up B. Lucas' PK Fire is difficult to get around when you're using a large character. Be defensive and evasive. If there are platforms, go over PK Fire. I'm not sure how you can deal with Lucas' PK Thunder. I'd imagine maybe Ridley's fair/nair. If you're both on the ground, then again, use Plasma Breath. Or try to roll around the slow attack and strike Lucas with a dash attack or something. Maybe even go for a grab. You should not be getting hit by Lucas' up smash. I'm not sure why he'd even go for that attack unless you're always hovering above him. Nair is annoying. Maybe use a properly spaced fair against him, or shield it and punish out of shield with your own nair.

Jump over Ness' PK Fire. It doesn't work in the same manner as Lucas', so you can jump over it and punish him or you can shield it. You can probably even jump over it and go for side B. If you get caught in Ness' PK Fire, just DI away from the attack. Maybe DI upward and away if he's spamming PK Fire so that you can hopefully dodge the other one. Be prepared to deal with his fair or u-smash, though. Hit the head of Ness' PK Thunder if you're in the air. Nair, dair, maybe even up B aiming downward might be able to help Ridley here. If you're offstage, then try to nair/fair it if you can. Ness' grab range is lackluster in this game, so he shouldn't be grabbing you easily unless he manages to get a drag down uair > grab, or if he goes for PSI Magnet > grab. You have to be very defensive against Ness. Against his fair, use your fair. Ridley's fair is like a sword that out ranges Ness' fair. Look for openings when facing off against him.
Being a Ness Main yourself I'm surprised you're giving me tips against your main.
 

TheBeastHimself

Having a Bad Fur Day
Premium
Joined
Mar 15, 2018
Messages
1,488
Location
New York
#7
Lucas main here.

PK Freeze, as much of a pain as it is, can be easily avoided given you know how, and I'll tell ya how! Shield, air dodge, maybe even spot dodge if you time it perfectly. Just remember that PK Freeze always follows a particular pattern; it covers a long distance horizontally, but does not travel very far vertically. It's not impossible to avoid at all and once you get the hang of avoiding it, it will become almost second nature to you.

For PK Fire, use your jumps as an advantage. Remember, shielding and spot dodging are not the only defense tools you can use on the ground. Lucas' PK Fire comes out quicker than Ness' so if you want to avoid it, you need to react just as fast. Luckily, jumping is very quick and can get you away from the PK Fire untouched. Always stay on your toes and try to recognize any patterns. For example, some Lucas' (including myself) try to strategically use PK Fire in certain situations. If you can recognize this pattern, you can easily punish the Lucas. Also note that Lucas' are more prone to use PK Fire if you get in their face, because that is Lucas' best tool to keep you away.

For PK Thunder, just remember that Lucas is completely vulnerable when using this attack. Get out of the lightning's way as best you can, and then go in for the punish. When Lucas uses PK Thunder on the ground, there's a lot of end lag so he won't be able to immediately follow up with an attack, and that's your golden opportunity to strike. If Lucas is using PK Thunder to edge guard you, use Ridley's wings to your advantage and try to your best to stay out of the lightning's way. I personally haven't mastered this when I play against a Lucas, but it's the best advice I can give you.

Lucas' Up Smash is another particularly easy move to avoid. Tips? DO NOT TRY TO ATTACK LUCAS WHEN HE'S DIRECTLY BELOW YOU. If you are getting back onto the stage by jumping from the ledge, there's a chance he'll catch you with the Up Smash. So try rolling onto the stage. It all depends on where Lucas is standing in relation to the ledge. But I cannot stress that enough, DO NOT TRY TO ATTACK LUCAS WHEN HE'S DIRECTLY BELOW YOU unless you're super fast. It's also important to know that when Lucas uses his Up Smash and misses, he's left vulnerable for a few seconds so it's can easy punish for you.

Ah, the neutral air. One of my favorite tools in Lucas' moveset. I'm going to be honest, I'm not 100% sure how to counter this one. If the Lucas you're fighting is very aggressive, keep him away from you because he will more often than not try to spam the neutral air. Don't try to attack Lucas from the air too much when he's on the ground because he can easily jump up and cancel your attack with his neutral air just because it's so fast.

I hope that helps in some ways.
 

Mr Saturn Fanboy

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
76
Location
Massachusetts
#8
Diehard Ness Main :ness:

Dealing with PK Fire spam is pretty easy. The move stales very quickly, and is very easy to DI from (its petter to DI up than away). If you want to avoid grabs and f-airs, keep yourself spaced properly. A lot of Ness' spam isn't viable as an option, so if you lose to this specific kind of spam, then you should try practicing with some CPUs to get the proper spacing and timing down.

PK Thunder leaves us extremely vulnerable, and can be swung at to break it.

Backthrows are just like everyone else's grabs, avoid them and you can go in for a punish. Ness has a very small grab window so avoiding them can be a snap.

Ness' aerials have large hitboxes, and come out relatively fast. Keep this in mind when you make your approach. If you see your rival start to jump out of shield, you can expect a n-air, or an f-air. Ness' aerials take a (comparatively) long time to finish, so if you can read a move, you can go from behind and make a punish.

Just with any other character, the best way to deal with them is to learn their quirks. Ness has an abusable recovery, mildly slow attacks, and is very floaty. Sword characters are his downfall (but then again, what character is strong against them amirite?) while superheavies are like hors d'ourves. As long as you can properly space yourself and maneuver well, then you should have no issue dealing with a spammer.

On top of everything however, when you react to a projectile or move from Ness, make sure you go about it quickly and calmly. If you dodge PK Fire with a reflect all the time, they can catch on and go in for grabs instead. If you jump then double jump, again, this can be reacted to. It seems that spam becomes more effective the more tilted you become. All in all, don't panic. Ness' spam is managable and you'll see it less and less the higher your GSP rises.

I cannot speak for Lucas because, surprisingly, their playstyles are largely different and I kinda suck at him.

Hope this helps
 
Last edited:

SD23

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 27, 2019
Messages
2
#9
I don't know what to tell you about pk fire but run in and roll on pk freeze ( I personally edge guard with zair then fair)
 
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