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Sora Unlocks the Door! (Roxas as an Echo?)

Sora's chances of getting in?


  • Total voters
    376

Double0Groove

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
570
In a world where t.v shows make up fake gaming consoles for their characters to play, this is super interesting to me:


I look at it as less "they wanted Sephiroth in base game" and more "Sephiroth was an opportunity to include the other FFVII content they wanted base game (music/spirits)."
Probably the music, sure, but they were already handing out free post games spirits.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
17,501
Location
Somewhere in the West.
Okay, let's assume for a moment that, by some miracle, the FP2 sales convince Nintendo to greenlight a third pass.

Would there be enough time given to sort through negotiations for Sora? Even then there's still the possibility of them continuing to tie up loose ends for series that either don't have much content and/or still have noteworthy characters that are missing/spirit-only since the base game (not to mention rumored long-term planned characters like Hayabusa and Crash whose series aren't present in any capacity).
 

Hadokeyblade

Smash Hero
Joined
Dec 5, 2018
Messages
5,115

Vector Victor

Smash Lord
Joined
May 27, 2019
Messages
1,836
Okay, let's assume for a moment that, by some miracle, the FP2 sales convince Nintendo to greenlight a third pass.

Would there be enough time given to sort through negotiations for Sora? Even then there's still the possibility of them continuing to tie up loose ends for series that either don't have much content and/or still have noteworthy characters that are missing/spirit-only since the base game (not to mention rumored long-term planned characters like Hayabusa and Crash whose series aren't present in any capacity).
I honestly would be shocked if Nintendo didn't request Sakurai for another pass (has to be much easier for him to work than making a full blown new game).

But there is some weirdness with pass 2. Steve has been in negotiations for years, before base Ultimate was even complete. From our perspective they were only making pass 1 while they still had a desired character being worked on. So if there was only the one pass, would all of Steve's negotiations and plannings just be thrown out? So there is a chance that they always had a 2nd pass in mind right from the start but waited until pass 1 was done before announcing it. I can see them making another pass to so they don't waste all the negotiation work they did.

Maybe negotiations would be easier if they focus more on KH's original generation content like Riku and Kairi over Donald and Goofy.
 

TraaP

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 15, 2019
Messages
31
But there is some weirdness with pass 2. Steve has been in negotiations for years, before base Ultimate was even complete. From our perspective they were only making pass 1 while they still had a desired character being worked on. So if there was only the one pass, would all of Steve's negotiations and plannings just be thrown out? So there is a chance that they always had a 2nd pass in mind right from the start but waited until pass 1 was done before announcing it. I can see them making another pass to so they don't waste all the negotiation work they did.
From the Steve's presentation I intrepreted from Sakurai's comment, "are you sure you can't put Minecraft in Smash?", to mean that Sakurai originally said no to making Steve a playable character, multiple times, as he did not think he could faithfully represent him in Smash. Then when Nintendo decided on fighter pass 2, they asked Sakurai to make Steve a fighter in which he said yes.
Therefore, I do believe that fighter pass 2 was not decided until part way through fighter pass 1. This is why I believe in a different "second chance" theory, being that for FP2 Nintendo decided to include characters that they wanted to have more representation than they originally - and including chararcters they just quite couldn't before. Which is why I believe that Sora still has a good chance.
 

fogbadge

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
12,551
Location
Scotland
From the Steve's presentation I intrepreted from Sakurai's comment, "are you sure you can't put Minecraft in Smash?", to mean that Sakurai originally said no to making Steve a playable character, multiple times, as he did not think he could faithfully represent him in Smash. Then when Nintendo decided on fighter pass 2, they asked Sakurai to make Steve a fighter in which he said yes.
Therefore, I do believe that fighter pass 2 was not decided until part way through fighter pass 1. This is why I believe in a different "second chance" theory, being that for FP2 Nintendo decided to include characters that they wanted to have more representation than they originally - and including chararcters they just quite couldn't before. Which is why I believe that Sora still has a good chance.
They said they spent five years on the license not five years convincing sakurai
 

Double0Groove

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
570
I mean, it's Disney. They can afford to use the real deal.
But then the question becomes "Why spend money at all". Unless this is a direct result of Nintendo sponsoring Disney channel. But still.

Okay, let's assume for a moment that, by some miracle, the FP2 sales convince Nintendo to greenlight a third pass.

Would there be enough time given to sort through negotiations for Sora? Even then there's still the possibility of them continuing to tie up loose ends for series that either don't have much content and/or still have noteworthy characters that are missing/spirit-only since the base game (not to mention rumored long-term planned characters like Hayabusa and Crash whose series aren't present in any capacity).
To be perfectly frank, we don't have enough intel to draw any kind of conclusions. It's not like we know for a fact that negotiations are done with or ongoing. Heck, for all we know, Sora might already be coming to FP2 regardless of a FP3.

But, for the sake of argument, lets pretend we all knew what was what and found out that Sora wasn't making it to FP2. In a FP3 scenario, we're looking at a time frame between Min-min's reveal to.... Idk... E3? E3 at the earliest and character 5's gameplay presentation at the latest (using FP2's announcement as a frame of reference). So that marks us at a 5-6 month time frame. We could also use Microsoft as a frame of reference as well, and pinpoint the curious details of a Diney X Nintendo relationship. We could either start at 2018 with the Disney/Nintendo collaboration on that family game show featuring the Switch. Or we could go for any collaboration after KH3 was released, like that time Nintendo gave an entire theater room a free Switch during a showing of Frozen 2 (December 2019). The rest is dependent on how long you think negotiations would take for a character like Sora.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
17,501
Location
Somewhere in the West.
Maybe negotiations would be easier if they focus more on KH's original generation content like Riku and Kairi over Donald and Goofy.
A-yup. Sak can still mention the Disney characters in a Presents, while Ultimate itself would have the KH originals (of which there are plenty) for content to use.
 
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Vector Victor

Smash Lord
Joined
May 27, 2019
Messages
1,836
I'm concerned that if Sora gets in Smash that his KH1 appearance will be his default. I know its his original look, but Square goes back to it too much.
 

fogbadge

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
12,551
Location
Scotland
I dunno, do you think the rights holders for the 3rd party characters are making those picks?
Well I just don’t see why Nintendo would promote the competition or the characters from games that already sell really well

It’s more likely that they were chosen cause they were expected to sell well rather than to sell their games
 
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Double0Groove

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
570
Well I just don’t see why Nintendo would promote the competition or the characters from games that already sell really well

It’s more likely that they were chosen cause they were expected to sell well rather than to sell their games
That I disagree wiith to an extent, but I digress. Nintendo's input doesn't matter if the 3rd party company in question isn't on board. In which case, a game that can extend recognition to other fanbases could incentivize other 3rd party companies to play ball. At the very least it makes for a sweater deal. Even if you were right about Nintendo's mindset, the promotional aspect would be unavoidable in some cases for that alone.
 

fogbadge

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
12,551
Location
Scotland
That I disagree wiith to an extent, but I digress. Nintendo's input doesn't matter if the 3rd party company in question isn't on board. In which case, a game that can extend recognition to other fanbases could incentivize other 3rd party companies to play ball. At the very least it makes for a sweater deal. Even if you were right about Nintendo's mindset, the promotional aspect would be unavoidable in some cases for that alone.
well in that sense every character is promoting their own game but its very unlikely that promoting them was the main reason for their inclusion
 

Vector Victor

Smash Lord
Joined
May 27, 2019
Messages
1,836
All characters have some degree of shill in them, but most people don't mind as long as there's more to them than simply being a shill (ie, they have fan support already, important to their home franchise or just popular picks in general). Being a "shill" pick isn't bad, but it is more eye rolling if that's their main feature in Smash.

I think best example of a shill pick is Corrin, picked solely to advertise Fates, which wasn't even released worldwide when he was revealed to Smash. At least with Byleth, his game was globally available for some time to organically build a fanbase (even if he was picked for the pass before his game came out. They are lucky 3 Houses didn't flop).

A KH shill pick would be if they added one of the BBS trio when their game was coming out, skipping over established characters like Sora, Riku or Roxas, especially bad by skipping the main protagonist of three games.
 

fogbadge

Smash Legend
Joined
Jun 29, 2012
Messages
12,551
Location
Scotland
I think best example of a shill pick is Corrin, picked solely to advertise Fates, which wasn't even released worldwide when he was revealed to Smash. At least with Byleth, his game was globally available for some time to organically build a fanbase (even if he was picked for the pass before his game came out. They are lucky 3 Houses didn't flop).
well that and it was the game the whole smash team was playing
 

Vector Victor

Smash Lord
Joined
May 27, 2019
Messages
1,836
Kid Sora/that outfit has been in the majority of the nintendo KH too so I can see why
True, so its more recognizable by Nintendo players.

You think if Sora was in Smash Ultimate's base game, it'd be partly to promote KH3?
To a degree, maybe more as a tie-in than full blown ad. However, it would have been suspect as a shilling if his Smash content strictly came from KH3 only, like the spirits, music or his stage, like if Sephiroth's spirit board had the Remake renders instead of the original game's art for the party.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

Smash Legend
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
17,501
Location
Somewhere in the West.

Even after Seph's inclusion, there are still spirit events for Square-Enix stuff. Meanwhile, KH still has yet to get anything of the sort.
 

Double0Groove

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 6, 2015
Messages
570

Even after Seph's inclusion, there are still spirit events for Square-Enix stuff. Meanwhile, KH still has yet to get anything of the sort.
If we get another Square spirit event though then I'm putting money down that we either get Sora, Terra, Lara, or Chrono.
Gasp!
$20
 
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