Sora Unlocks the Door! (Roxas as an Echo?)

Sora's chances of getting in?


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fogbadge

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The only true rule he set is "characters must originate from video games." So far, it's not broken. "They must've been on Nintendo" is more of fan rule.
i never said anything of the sort, what i was referring to is how characters in the game havent necessarily been treat equal with some characters being updated and other being based on older version and how some of the things sakurai said to exclude some characters which could have applied to characters in the game
 
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I am talking from Sakurai's perspective. Would he be fine with Sora without Disney content? He is different from those developers who put Sora in their games. That's why I am asking this. Would he make compromise to put Sora?
Yes. I mean, he goes out of his way to mention anyone noteworthy who doesn't get in. *cough*MaiShiranui*cough*

The only true rule he set is "characters must originate from video games." So far, it's not broken. "They must've been on Nintendo" is more of fan rule.
You can't deny that the latter has been upheld so far, though. Sakurai even counts cameos and crossover appearances on smaller games published on Ninty hardware prior to characters' Smash appearances. :ultcloud::ultjoker:

The main reason why it's seen as a courtesy (if not rule) is that not all companies would be wiling to be negotiated with as easily if their stuff didn't already show up on Nintendo-related stuff in some form. Sony, in particular, hasn't had any stuff of theirs that's not a third-party IP get on Nintendo hardware so far, which is why you wouldn't see someone like Kratos, but Crash is generally seen as a given.

Square-Enix is undeniably a third-party, so they have legroom, even if they're tough to negotiate with for some of the stuff their characters can come with.
 
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Lionfranky

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You can't deny that the latter has been upheld so far, though. Sakurai even counts cameos and crossover appearances on smaller games published on Ninty hardware prior to characters' Smash appearances. :ultcloud::ultjoker:

The main reason why it's seen as a courtesy (if not rule) is that not all companies would be wiling to be negotiated with as easily if their stuff didn't already show up on Nintendo-related stuff in some form. Sony, in particular, hasn't had any stuff of theirs that's not a third-party IP get on Nintendo hardware so far, which is why you wouldn't see someone like Kratos, but Crash is generally seen as a given.
I guess that's why Master Chief has been requested. He has cameo on Switch via Minecraft skin.
 

M@R!3

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Sora would be special case. He would be someone whom Sakurai will be willing to forsake his important elements. I seriously doubt he would try to open floodgate by putting Disney characters even as Spirit. There are still people who still think Goku has shot despite Sakurai shooting down multiple times.
That's what the KH original cast is for.
 

Nazyrus

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I am talking from Sakurai's perspective. Would he be fine with Sora without Disney content? He is different from those developers who put Sora in their games. That's why I am asking this. Would he make compromise to put Sora?
Sora doesn't rely on his disney friends to be the way he is designed and the way he fights. It doesn't remove anything from him whatsoever. He is even alone a lot of times during his own games. They are just teammates and the only interaction they have gameplay wise with sora are the team special moves. I mean this could literally be said about shulk not having his teammates around or any other jrpg character in smash. Sakurai doesn't find lack of teammates a flaw in order to make a playable character. If this was like Ice climbers or Chorus kids, or any character that truly relies on another character to act and fight, that would be a different deal.

If this is about representing Disney, Sora is already their videogame disney character, he is owned by them, he doesn't need non videogame characters to represent further who he is owned by. Thats why he has had no issues being alone in other crossovers. He doesn't stop being a disney character himself when he doesn't have goofy and donald around.
 
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TriggerX

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I am talking from Sakurai's perspective. Would he be fine with Sora without Disney content? He is different from those developers who put Sora in their games. That's why I am asking this. Would he make compromise to put Sora?
There’s really no compromise to be made. Dream Drop Distance and 356/2 are decent examples of Sora pretty much being playable with a solo moveset.

There is plenty of original content to use without needing to add anything Disney.

Disney is a big part of KH, don’t get me wrong about that. But If you had to explain the main story of KH it could be done without mentioning Disney characters by name.
However I doubt they’ll shy away from mentioning something like ”King Mickey” in a description.

The whole non video game content is probably taken a bit out of context anyways. I think it’s more limited to playable characters, assists, stages, items, music, etc.
As someone mentioned earlier, Mickey and Donald have already been brought up in Mr Game and Watch’s profiles when they could have just omitted the information. So if that’s any indication of Sakurais mindset, I would assume that he’s cool with ”text only” representation. Lol I doubt the key chain is even a big deal, it’s essentially Disney’s symbol. Really no different from Neo Geo on Terry’s hat.
 

Hadokeyblade

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They would probably namedrop Donald and Goofy in his bio. Something like "in his series Sora travels to many different locations with his friends Donald and Goofy to help the locals with their problems and defeat dark forces"
 

Double0Groove

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Master Chief was mostly joke suggestion at least until Cloud. And, he became a serious contender after Banjo.

As for Sora, does Sakurai want to put Sora? Looking at Mai, he would rather not put characters that won't be faithful to original. He could've chosen safer outfit for Mai, but didn't even for Spirit. It's still weird that Shantae is in as Spirit. If he feels Sora without Donald, Goofy or any other Disney trace is not faithful to Kingdom Heart, would he put it? Putting Disney content will break his oath: characters must originate from game." I am just asking. He can make exception and put Sora without Disney content, but what's chance? 50/50?
When it comes to Sakurai, I couldn't even tell you. Whether he does or doesn't isn't something I'd like to make assumptions about since assuming what Sakurai would and wouldn't do is normally just a bad substitute for a good argument.

With that being said, the case for Donald and Goofy has always been a flimsy one at best. As you've stated yourself, Mai was kept out despite her importance to the Fatal Fury series. This alone makes a strong case for Sora joining without referencing either Donald or Goofy, since it shows that Sakurai is willing to cut side characters, despite their importance, if they're not appropriate for Smash. And that's not even factoring in the Kingdom Hearts characters that originated from the series (who are all Disney characters, by the by) and the fact that Sora has appeared in 2-3 games that doesn't even feature them.

If I were forced to put a number on the odds that Sakurai would ignore Donald, Goofy, or any of the others, I'd say... About 75% based on the reasons I listed. But again, assuming what Sakurai thinks is not a good argument. I say this from experience after dealing with people who pushed it senselessly against Mii fighters, Palutena, and Robin during the Smash 4 days.
 

fogbadge

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When it comes to Sakurai, I couldn't even tell you. Whether he does or doesn't isn't something I'd like to make assumptions about since assuming what Sakurai would and wouldn't do is normally just a bad substitute for a good argument.

With that being said, the case for Donald and Goofy has always been a flimsy one at best. As you've stated yourself, Mai was kept out despite her importance to the Fatal Fury series. This alone makes a strong case for Sora joining without referencing either Donald or Goofy, since it shows that Sakurai is willing to cut side characters, despite their importance, if they're not appropriate for Smash. And that's not even factoring in the Kingdom Hearts characters that originated from the series (who are all Disney characters, by the by) and the fact that Sora has appeared in 2-3 games that doesn't even feature them.

If I were forced to put a number on the odds that Sakurai would ignore Donald, Goofy, or any of the others, I'd say... About 75% based on the reasons I listed. But again, assuming what Sakurai thinks is not a good argument. I say this from experience after dealing with people who pushed it senselessly against Mii fighters, Palutena, and Robin during the Smash 4 days.
i imagine steep licence fees may affect the decision as well
 

PLATINUM7

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I am surprised a few people have been going straight to talking about Sora's moveset when talking about whether there's going to be any Disney content. I've always thought this would have to do with the spirits or any other cameos. Only time I've seen people actually talk about Disney characters appear in his moveset is when they've suggested Trinity Limit be his Final Smash.
There’s really no compromise to be made. Dream Drop Distance and 356/2 are decent examples of Sora pretty much being playable with a solo moveset.

There is plenty of original content to use without needing to add anything Disney.

Disney is a big part of KH, don’t get me wrong about that. But If you had to explain the main story of KH it could be done without mentioning Disney characters by name.
However I doubt they’ll shy away from mentioning something like ”King Mickey” in a description.

The whole non video game content is probably taken a bit out of context anyways. I think it’s more limited to playable characters, assists, stages, items, music, etc.
As someone mentioned earlier, Mickey and Donald have already been brought up in Mr Game and Watch’s profiles when they could have just omitted the information. So if that’s any indication of Sakurais mindset, I would assume that he’s cool with ”text only” representation. Lol I doubt the key chain is even a big deal, it’s essentially Disney’s symbol. Really no different from Neo Geo on Terry’s hat.
We have had an item originate from a series that wasn't initially a video game. The original motion sensor bomb took its design from GoldenEye.
 

Amped_Form

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When it comes to Sakurai, I couldn't even tell you. Whether he does or doesn't isn't something I'd like to make assumptions about since assuming what Sakurai would and wouldn't do is normally just a bad substitute for a good argument.

With that being said, the case for Donald and Goofy has always been a flimsy one at best. As you've stated yourself, Mai was kept out despite her importance to the Fatal Fury series. This alone makes a strong case for Sora joining without referencing either Donald or Goofy, since it shows that Sakurai is willing to cut side characters, despite their importance, if they're not appropriate for Smash. And that's not even factoring in the Kingdom Hearts characters that originated from the series (who are all Disney characters, by the by) and the fact that Sora has appeared in 2-3 games that doesn't even feature them.

If I were forced to put a number on the odds that Sakurai would ignore Donald, Goofy, or any of the others, I'd say... About 75% based on the reasons I listed. But again, assuming what Sakurai thinks is not a good argument. I say this from experience after dealing with people who pushed it senselessly against Mii fighters, Palutena, and Robin during the Smash 4 days.
Hmmmm, interesting.
 

PLATINUM7

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later changed to the look from perfect dark (or was it the other way round) and then an original look
Only in the JP version of Melee did it have the Perfect Dark look. International versions retained the GoldenEye design. From Brawl onward, the item has had an original design.
 

fogbadge

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It's originally from GoldenEye, since that game came before Perfect Dark and the GoldenEye design was used for SSB64.
perfect dark was made using the golden eye engine right? though i suppose as it was an aspect of the game that they could clearly still use without having to renew the licence it may not have been seen as quite the same to sakurai. or maybe he just wasnt as bothered back then
 

M@R!3

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I am surprised a few people have been going straight to talking about Sora's moveset when talking about whether there's going to be any Disney content. I've always thought this would have to do with the spirits or any other cameos. Only time I've seen people actually talk about Disney characters appear in his moveset is when they've suggested Trinity Limit be his Final Smash.
I guess some people take the whole "My friends are my power!" thing too literally, or not... literally... enough?
8f5.png
 

M@R!3

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So I finally finished up critical in KH3, and after some prep work for Limit Cut, I played through Remind. I loved it for the most part. The new 1v1 encounters are great, but the group fights are still pretty rough. I also had some frame rate problems in a few encounters, but I'm thinking that's probably just my system. Next game Osaka should focus on improving their encounter and enemy mob design as what I've played of Limit Cut shows just how great of a boss battle they can make. If they do that while maintaining the same quality of boss design the next game could very well usurp KH2's spot as best in the series.
 

Lionfranky

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With that being said, the case for Donald and Goofy has always been a flimsy one at best. As you've stated yourself, Mai was kept out despite her importance to the Fatal Fury series. This alone makes a strong case for Sora joining without referencing either Donald or Goofy, since it shows that Sakurai is willing to cut side characters, despite their importance, if they're not appropriate for Smash. And that's not even factoring in the Kingdom Hearts characters that originated from the series (who are all Disney characters, by the by) and the fact that Sora has appeared in 2-3 games that doesn't even feature them.

If I were forced to put a number on the odds that Sakurai would ignore Donald, Goofy, or any of the others, I'd say... About 75% based on the reasons I listed. But again, assuming what Sakurai thinks is not a good argument. I say this from experience after dealing with people who pushed it senselessly against Mii fighters, Palutena, and Robin during the Smash 4 days.
This is the argument I was looking for. Good job. Mai case rather works in favor of Sora.

"As for Donald and Goofy, we decided to exclude them due to our philosophy. Sorry. Smash is celebration of gaming, so please forgive us."
 
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People talk about Roxas being an echo fighter but I always thought Riku would be a better echo fighter choice. Mixes it up from being "Just Sora, again" and they could give his moveset more darkness based effects.
 

Hadokeyblade

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People talk about Roxas being an echo fighter but I always thought Riku would be a better echo fighter choice. Mixes it up from being "Just Sora, again" and they could give his moveset more darkness based effects.
The issue with that is that Riku has a drastically different fighting style from Sora and at that point it would be an echo fighter anymore.

In comparison Roxas is a literal clone of Sora so he makes perfect sense as an echo or an alt.
 

Lyncario

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The issue with that is that Riku has a drastically different fighting style from Sora and at that point it would be an echo fighter anymore.

In comparison Roxas is a literal clone of Sora so he makes perfect sense as an echo or an alt.
I feel like Roxas wouldn't work as an Echo because his dual weilding is just too iconic for him.
 

MyDude213

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Post warned for double posting. Please use the Edit feature.
I am surprised a few people have been going straight to talking about Sora's moveset when talking about whether there's going to be any Disney content. I've always thought this would have to do with the spirits or any other cameos. Only time I've seen people actually talk about Disney characters appear in his moveset is when they've suggested Trinity Limit be his Final Smash.

We have had an item originate from a series that wasn't initially a video game. The original motion sensor bomb took its design from GoldenEye.
Greninja's Ultimate F-Smash is also a form that was originally an anime original form until they it added to the games way after. That being their Ash Greninja form.

People talk about Roxas being an echo fighter but I always thought Riku would be a better echo fighter choice. Mixes it up from being "Just Sora, again" and they could give his moveset more darkness based effects.
It's honestly pretty hard to really say anyone in KH could be an echo for Sora since everyone of the ones people always bring up all have their own unique movesets when compared to Sora it's easier to assume he'd get pseudo clones akin to a how every FE character is more or less a pseudo clone of Marth vs a clone that reflects him almost one to one like echos do for their respective original copies. About the only thing all the keyblade wielders share in common with each other is basic fire, lightning, ice, cure, and reflect magic but even that tends to not be exactly the same for everyone.
 
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