Sora Unlocks the Door! (Roxas as an Echo?)

Sora's chances of getting in?


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Super Devon

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Sora's chance for smash is honestly very hard to say imo
Sakruai confirmed that non-video game characters are not gonna be in this game what-so-ever
Donald and Goofy, along with the majority of the Disney characters, are technically considered non-video game characters.
I'd like Sora in Smash myself, but I just feel that there are so many red flags in my opinion that It's hard to see it become a reality.
Kingdom Hearts is a crossover in-itself, with many of the worlds being based on Movies.
I dunno, like I want Sora, I just think the chances for him actually being in the game is very slim imo.
 

fogbadge

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Sora's chance for smash is honestly very hard to say imo
Sakruai confirmed that non-video game characters are not gonna be in this game what-so-ever
Donald and Goofy, along with the majority of the Disney characters, are technically considered non-video game characters.
I'd like Sora in Smash myself, but I just feel that there are so many red flags in my opinion that It's hard to see it become a reality.
Kingdom Hearts is a crossover in-itself, with many of the worlds being based on Movies.
I dunno, like I want Sora, I just think the chances for him actually being in the game is very slim imo.
well not really this statement (which has been said in the past) doesnt change anything sora himself is a video game character and is therefore not in same category as the likes of goku. theres nothing to say that he has to bring any of the disney characters with him, and as the licences to uses them probably cost way more than for sora they probably wouldnt want regardless. kingdom hearts and each individual disney property would most likely have to involve a separate negotiation and would not necessarily come up in negotiations for kingdom hearts stuff.

really the only barrier in sora's way is we dont know how disney would feel about it.
 

Double0Groove

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well not really this statement (which has been said in the past) doesnt change anything sora himself is a video game character and is therefore not in same category as the likes of goku. theres nothing to say that he has to bring any of the disney characters with him, and as the licences to uses them probably cost way more than for sora they probably wouldnt want regardless. kingdom hearts and each individual disney property would most likely have to involve a separate negotiation and would not necessarily come up in negotiations for kingdom hearts stuff.

really the only barrier in sora's way is we dont know how disney would feel about it.
On top of that we've only been getting, like what, 7-9 spirits per character? If so then we're honestly good since we have enough main characters to fill up those numbers. And that's excluding the cartoon Disney cast.

As for Disney. With the recent string of Disney titles being released onto the Switch (two of them being exclusive I might add) and their partnership last year, I think that there's a strong chance that they'd be fine with his inclusion.
 

fogbadge

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On top of that we've only been getting, like what, 7-9 spirits per character? If so then we're honestly good since we have enough main characters to fill up those numbers. And that's excluding the cartoon Disney cast.

As for Disney. With the recent string of Disney titles being released onto the Switch (two of them being exclusive I might add) and their partnership last year, I think that there's a strong chance that they'd be fine with his inclusion.
lets hope so with his popularity and the series popularity is all it could take
 

GRUDGE

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Calling it right now. Sora is going to be Challenger Pack 5 or E3 2020 Announcement.

We're beating a dead horse in some aspects at this point so for simplicity sake let's assume:

-Square is on board
-Disney is on board (provided no Disney music or characters are included. This includes Donald and Goofy)

It's not hard to imagine any of the three companies (Square, Disney, Nintendo) have talked about it before. Now, more than ever, Smash is one of the biggest games of all time. That's a lot of customers, that's a lot of money, and Sora is one of the few major gaming icons left that hasn't been included yet. So let's be clear...the conversation has happened. Between all three companies and individually as well. Does anybody truly think that if this conversation were to happen again, TODAY, it wouldn't come to fruition?

Think about Sakurai plugging Xbox during the Banjo release. Wild, right? Well, it's even more wild when you realize Xbox sales were basically nonexistent in Japan, as it's typically marketed as a multimedia player over there. Sakurai plugged it and Japanese sales went through the roof. And they're a COMPETITOR. Disney isn't even competing with Nintendo, they've worked cooperatively extensively over the past decade or two. Much more so than Disney has collaborated with Microsoft or Sony for sure.

So tell me now, do you really think a character that has this much universal appeal is not going to get into THIS game, which Sakurai makes sound like his greatest achievement?

It's happening, folks.

At this point more than hoping Sora gets in, I'm just hoping Square or Disney or whoever is in charge of the music doesn't **** us over like Cloud lmao
 

GRUDGE

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well yoko already working on it doesnt really matter as i believe disney owns the rights to the kh music
This is true. Yoko is supportive and helped with the remixing of her tracks for Smash but as far as legality goes if she didn't want a song from Street Fighter II put in the game and Capcom did, then that's too bad. The publisher that owns the music makes the final call on these things assuming Sakurai wants the track in question in the first place.
 

Double0Groove

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So recently, I've been seeing two arguments going against Sora joining Smash (one new, one pretty old)... Or rather, a new approach as to why some people wouldn't want him included, and I felt like talking about it. Especially since we're desperate for a topic in this thread, like seriously.
Anyway, I'll be hitting them with the spoiler tags as to not clutter the thread. This is just to get a discussion going... so here we go:
Disney vs. Sony:
So, this argument basically revolves around the recent spat between Disney and Sony. Just in case you didn't know, Sony pulled Spiderman out of the MCU simply because Disney demanded a 50/50 split from the profits of every Spiderman movie. I believe their prior arrangement had Disney making around 10% or less from those movies, but I can't find a source that proves this as of right now.

Regardless, Disney and Sony made up with a new deal, but now people against Sora joining Smash have used this as an example as to why Disney shouldn't have a rep in Smash, because they'd flip-flop on their arrangement and get Sora kicked out of Smash.

I can confidently say this isn't the case though due to one very important reason:
Disney isn't desperate to have Sora in Smash bros., but they were desperate to include Spiderman into the MCU.
Several interviews with the Russo brothers have them mentioning how adamant they were to have Spiderman in their film, and constantly pressured their producer to make it happen. And it did, which shows in their original deal. With Sora, on the other hand, they're willing to put him Smash, but are not desperate to have him included. Which would make for a more fair deal that Disney would be willing to abide by. Spiderman's situation was a unique thing to him alone.


Disney buying Nintendo if the work together:
Honestly this is an easy one. You look at Sega with their inclusion of Wreck it Ralph, Capcom with the development of Marvel vs. Capcom infinite, Bandai Namco with the development of Disney magical world series AND Disney Tsun Tsun (all exclusive to Nintendo systems mind you), or even Square Enix with the Kingdom Hearts series, and you'll see that the threat of Disney buying Nintendo over a single cameo appearance is a ludicrous statement. Not to mention that Disney is already partnering with Nintendo anyway with that competitive show featuring the Switch, so that "threat" is hardly one at all.
 

Ryder16

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For the second one, I believe there's a law in Japan that makes sure Disney cannot buy Nintendo. they would have to buy japan first and why would they do that? (I remember hearing about the law early into my sora for smash research)
 

fogbadge

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So recently, I've been seeing two arguments going against Sora joining Smash (one new, one pretty old)... Or rather, a new approach as to why some people wouldn't want him included, and I felt like talking about it. Especially since we're desperate for a topic in this thread, like seriously.
Anyway, I'll be hitting them with the spoiler tags as to not clutter the thread. This is just to get a discussion going... so here we go:
Disney vs. Sony:
So, this argument basically revolves around the recent spat between Disney and Sony. Just in case you didn't know, Sony pulled Spiderman out of the MCU simply because Disney demanded a 50/50 split from the profits of every Spiderman movie. I believe their prior arrangement had Disney making around 10% or less from those movies, but I can't find a source that proves this as of right now.

Regardless, Disney and Sony made up with a new deal, but now people against Sora joining Smash have used this as an example as to why Disney shouldn't have a rep in Smash, because they'd flip-flop on their arrangement and get Sora kicked out of Smash.

I can confidently say this isn't the case though due to one very important reason:
Disney isn't desperate to have Sora in Smash bros., but they were desperate to include Spiderman into the MCU.
Several interviews with the Russo brothers have them mentioning how adamant they were to have Spiderman in their film, and constantly pressured their producer to make it happen. And it did, which shows in their original deal. With Sora, on the other hand, they're willing to put him Smash, but are not desperate to have him included. Which would make for a more fair deal that Disney would be willing to abide by. Spiderman's situation was a unique thing to him alone.


Disney buying Nintendo if the work together:
Honestly this is an easy one. You look at Sega with their inclusion of Wreck it Ralph, Capcom with the development of Marvel vs. Capcom infinite, Bandai Namco with the development of Disney magical world series AND Disney Tsun Tsun (all exclusive to Nintendo systems mind you), or even Square Enix with the Kingdom Hearts series, and you'll see that the threat of Disney buying Nintendo over a single cameo appearance is a ludicrous statement. Not to mention that Disney is already partnering with Nintendo anyway with that competitive show featuring the Switch, so that "threat" is hardly one at all.
i can see the logic behind the first one but its all based on the assumption that they have the same deal for sora in smash as spidey in the mcu which strikes me as unlikely for many reasons as like you said disney attitude towards sora in smash is gonna be very different from spidey in the mcu, and you cant really expect nintendo and sony to behave the same way

as for the second one i think covered the main flaw in the reasoning
 

Double0Groove

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For the second one, I believe there's a law in Japan that makes sure Disney cannot buy Nintendo. they would have to buy japan first and why would they do that? (I remember hearing about the law early into my sora for smash research)
I remember reading about that once too, but when looking deeper into it, I couldn't find any proof to back that claim and even saw some claims that said it wasn't true, so I can't really rely on it as a response. However, if you can find legitimate proof of this, please share it as it would make things so much easier.

i can see the logic behind the first one but its all based on the assumption that they have the same deal for sora in smash as spidey in the mcu which strikes me as unlikely for many reasons as like you said disney attitude towards sora in smash is gonna be very different from spidey in the mcu, and you cant really expect nintendo and sony to behave the same way
It's certainly an interesting argument though. Almost like a warped version of the "Disney wouldn't want their characters in a fighting game" argument. If I wasn't following the spiderman news at all, I would've let that argument run me over. It's a good reminder that we need to stay on our toes and make sure to fact-check the claims being made against Sora's inclusion any time they're brought up.
 

fogbadge

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I remember reading about that once too, but when looking deeper into it, I couldn't find any proof to back that claim and even saw some claims that said it wasn't true, so I can't really rely on it as a response. However, if you can find legitimate proof of this, please share it as it would make things so much easier.


It's certainly an interesting argument though. Almost like a warped version of the "Disney wouldn't want their characters in a fighting game" argument. If I wasn't following the spiderman news at all, I would've let that argument run me over. It's a good reminder that we need to stay on our toes and make sure to fact-check the claims being made against Sora's inclusion any time they're brought up.
getting facts right is just a sensible policy in general
 

Double0Groove

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377
Glad to see the support stays alive! I really have a strong feeling for Sora. He would definitely be a door opener (no pun intended… actually it totally is lol) type of reveal like Cloud and Joker were imo.
Definitely! Although that range IS quite limited if we're being honest.
 

M@R!3

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Sep 5, 2019
Messages
86
So recently, I've been seeing two arguments going against Sora joining Smash (one new, one pretty old)... Or rather, a new approach as to why some people wouldn't want him included, and I felt like talking about it. Especially since we're desperate for a topic in this thread, like seriously.
Anyway, I'll be hitting them with the spoiler tags as to not clutter the thread. This is just to get a discussion going... so here we go:
Disney vs. Sony:
So, this argument basically revolves around the recent spat between Disney and Sony. Just in case you didn't know, Sony pulled Spiderman out of the MCU simply because Disney demanded a 50/50 split from the profits of every Spiderman movie. I believe their prior arrangement had Disney making around 10% or less from those movies, but I can't find a source that proves this as of right now.

Regardless, Disney and Sony made up with a new deal, but now people against Sora joining Smash have used this as an example as to why Disney shouldn't have a rep in Smash, because they'd flip-flop on their arrangement and get Sora kicked out of Smash.

I can confidently say this isn't the case though due to one very important reason:
Disney isn't desperate to have Sora in Smash bros., but they were desperate to include Spiderman into the MCU.
Several interviews with the Russo brothers have them mentioning how adamant they were to have Spiderman in their film, and constantly pressured their producer to make it happen. And it did, which shows in their original deal. With Sora, on the other hand, they're willing to put him Smash, but are not desperate to have him included. Which would make for a more fair deal that Disney would be willing to abide by. Spiderman's situation was a unique thing to him alone.
I'll just address the Disney vs Sony situation.

The little feud between Disney and Sony only stands as an example of Disney being needlessly combative in a scenario where it only hurts themselves.

And that's it.

The deal between Sony and Disney to add Spider-man to the MCU was very specific. It only allowed for a set number of movies, and appearances under specific conditions to be made in a set time frame. As far as we can tell that deal was held to agreement, and after the deal was up, terms would need to be renegotiated before anything else could happen. Because the terms were upheld I see no reason Disney would suddenly, unexpectedly withdraw Sora from Smash without the agreement's terms being violated. The only realistic way Sora would be pulled from Smash is the license expiring, and Nintendo choosing not to renew it. But I don't see Nintendo negotiating for a license shorter than Smash Ultimate's projected profitable lifespan. Beyond that time frame every single DLC/third party character is in the same boat. Nintendo isn't going to renew a license for content that people are no longer buying. When those contracts expire the associated character and content will no longer be available to download including the entire base game. So if that's a point against Sora, it's also a point against every single third party inclusion we have now or will ever have in the future.
 

AncientArk

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Personally, I've very positive on Sora ending up in Smash.
It seems like it would be the right thing to do and would please a lot of fans wishes, which seems to be a priority for Sakurai/Nintendo with
some DLC character choices.

Truth is though, Sora appearing in Smash is easily done without having to reference Donald, Goofy and Mickey.
They don't need to be around in a cinematic trailer or be represented as a spirit, the original KH characters could be used instead or if that is even too hard, use the KH universe version of Final Fantasy characters.

If he makes it in, I would hope his Fire spell is the one from KH2, that it spins around Sora rather than being shot.
 

fogbadge

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Personally, I've very positive on Sora ending up in Smash.
It seems like it would be the right thing to do and would please a lot of fans wishes, which seems to be a priority for Sakurai/Nintendo with
some DLC character choices.

Truth is though, Sora appearing in Smash is easily done without having to reference Donald, Goofy and Mickey.
They don't need to be around in a cinematic trailer or be represented as a spirit, the original KH characters could be used instead or if that is even too hard, use the KH universe version of Final Fantasy characters.

If he makes it in, I would hope his Fire spell is the one from KH2, that it spins around Sora rather than being shot.
ah excellent some one who gets it
 

Herocin

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158
I support Sora despite him having next to no chance. I still wonder how they'd handle Disney Content. If I'm being honest Kingdom Hearts just isn't Kingdom Hearts without the Disney characters and just turns itself into a bland generic soulless JRPG without them at least from what I have played therefore Sora may have to bring Disney content if he was ever considered and we all know how faithfully Sakurai likes to represent third party characters nowadays and as Sakurai has essentially vowed that non video game characters will never be represented it's kinda shady. Not only that but if you look at a Sora Death Battle Bio that shows you how much he can do but would all that be able to be squished into a single moveset without copying Hero. If anyone has any solutions I'd be glad to hear them especially to the latter. And also honestly Sora is even less likely when taking the fact that Geno isn't in into account. He has been requested since brawl while Sora really only got popular during smash 4 doc and Ultimate. Geno definitely got more requests as he at least got a Mii Outfit while Sora wasn't referenced at All and Geno's last shot at happening is probably Ultimate
 
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fogbadge

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I support Sora despite him having next to no chance. I still wonder how they'd handle Disney Content. If I'm being honest Kingdom Hearts just isn't Kingdom Hearts without the Disney characters and just turns itself into a bland generic soulless JRPG without them at least from what I have played therefore Sora may have to bring Disney content if he was ever considered and we all know how faithfully Sakurai likes to represent third party characters nowadays and as Sakurai has essentially vowed that non video game characters will never be represented it's kinda shady. Not only that but if you look at a Sora Death Battle Bio that shows you how much he can do but would all that be able to be squished into a single moveset without copying Hero. If anyone has any solutions I'd be glad to hear them especially to the latter. And also honestly Sora is even less likely when taking the fact that Geno isn't in into account. He has been requested since brawl while Sora really only got popular during smash 4 doc and Ultimate. Geno definitely got more requests as he at least got a Mii Outfit while Sora wasn't referenced at All and Geno's last shot at happening is probably Ultimate
well first of all simply being a popular character gives sora a shot, for example joker was a very popular character despite not being heavenly requested for smash. so as such the fact that he has been a popular character from a popular series from the start means something regardless of when his requests in smash picked up steam
what counts as a "souless" jrpg is a matter of opinion and doesnt really have any baring on him in smash.
you cant really expect sora to bring disney stuff with him as they would likely require separate, potentially more expensive licences which is not something it think any one would want to spend a lot of money on for so some small cameos.
i dont know much about death battle but i dont think its a good thing to use for moveset potential and to think that sora cant do anything hero can do suggests having played very little of the games as he has access to many moves that no one in smash bros has, its more than spells and "sword" moves, theres flowmotion, keyblade transformations, shotloks etc
geno has no baring on sora what so ever, theyre owned by different companies and unless sakurai decides to spend on one over the other. characters getting chosen over other characters isnt really the norm and even when they are its usually characters fro the same series or representing a group of games, theres no real crossover for them to be against each other.
the fact that sora wasnt referenced at all and geno was doesnt mean a thing, neither were the belmonts, joker, hero or banjo and kazooie.
 

GhostRoy

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I support Sora despite him having next to no chance. I still wonder how they'd handle Disney Content. If I'm being honest Kingdom Hearts just isn't Kingdom Hearts without the Disney characters and just turns itself into a bland generic soulless JRPG without them at least from what I have played therefore Sora may have to bring Disney content if he was ever considered and we all know how faithfully Sakurai likes to represent third party characters nowadays and as Sakurai has essentially vowed that non video game characters will never be represented it's kinda shady. Not only that but if you look at a Sora Death Battle Bio that shows you how much he can do but would all that be able to be squished into a single moveset without copying Hero. If anyone has any solutions I'd be glad to hear them especially to the latter. And also honestly Sora is even less likely when taking the fact that Geno isn't in into account. He has been requested since brawl while Sora really only got popular during smash 4 doc and Ultimate. Geno definitely got more requests as he at least got a Mii Outfit while Sora wasn't referenced at All and Geno's last shot at happening is probably Ultimate
Geno's chances have nothing to do with Sora's as Sora is a Disney character and Geno is Square as well as there being no rule for how much a company can have characters included. In my opinion the Disney parts in kingdom hearts are just filler for the greater plot and don't have any real purpose other than teaching the player(Sora) "good values" and creating cool worlds to explore. So I believe Kingdom hearts can survive on its own with its own diverse and creative characters, locations. and move options even without the Disney aspects.
 

Celaris

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o I believe Kingdom hearts can survive on its own with its own diverse and creative characters, locations. and move options even without the Disney aspects.
Thing is, you don't necessarily have to believe because there's already proof. Sora has appeared in two mobile game; Final Fantasy Brave Exvius, and Final Fantasy Record Keeper. Neither of those games reference Disney, like at all, so it's entirely possible for Sora to be in smash without Disney

You can also look at Joker. He hardly references the Persona series (apart from colours) or his mother series "Shin Megami Tensei" which is most likely the reason why Nintendo were fine with his inclusion since Atlus and Nintendo have a pretty long history due to the SMT games.
 

Double0Groove

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Thing is, you don't necessarily have to believe because there's already proof. Sora has appeared in two mobile game; Final Fantasy Brave Exvius, and Final Fantasy Record Keeper. Neither of those games reference Disney, like at all, so it's entirely possible for Sora to be in smash without Disney
Now there's something that more people should be made aware of! I didn't even know that he was in those games! I'd say that this also proves that Disney is more willing to let Sora's character be used in other games, but this is still just a case of SE using him as opposed to another company. I'd like to know what the overall process was like just to have him included in those games.
 

Herocin

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well first of all simply being a popular character gives sora a shot, for example joker was a very popular character despite not being heavenly requested for smash. so as such the fact that he has been a popular character from a popular series from the start means something regardless of when his requests in smash picked up steam
what counts as a "souless" jrpg is a matter of opinion and doesnt really have any baring on him in smash.
you cant really expect sora to bring disney stuff with him as they would likely require separate, potentially more expensive licences which is not something it think any one would want to spend a lot of money on for so some small cameos.
i dont know much about death battle but i dont think its a good thing to use for moveset potential and to think that sora cant do anything hero can do suggests having played very little of the games as he has access to many moves that no one in smash bros has, its more than spells and "sword" moves, theres flowmotion, keyblade transformations, shotloks etc
geno has no baring on sora what so ever, theyre owned by different companies and unless sakurai decides to spend on one over the other. characters getting chosen over other characters isnt really the norm and even when they are its usually characters fro the same series or representing a group of games, theres no real crossover for them to be against each other.
the fact that sora wasnt referenced at all and geno was doesnt mean a thing, neither were the belmonts, joker, hero or banjo and kazooie.
Yeah by death battle I don't mean actual death battle cos there a bad thing to reference in general. https://www.deviantart.com/jjsliderman/journal/Sora-Shows-DEATH-BATTLE-the-Light-722175929 judging by how much is here it's probably the easiest thing to make a moveset from as with a wiki it'd usually involve thumbling around with multiple pages. Secondly it's probably unlikely that joker was chosen because of popularity mainly because he wasn't that popular and the fact he was so new even missing the ballot didn't help things either. And tbh we don't have a clue on why joker was chosen in the first place and there isn't even a definitive answer which the community is all agreeing with so until we know why joker was chosen I don't think it's safe to use him as an example. You may see it was because of him being popular but it could turn out to be because of P5R. And from my perspective most of the if not all the entirety of Kingdom Hearts does involve Disney. So it'd be kind of weird to see Smash Bros Ultimate X Kingdom Hearts but they decide to lack the basic thing which would have been essential to portray the characters series correctly and keep Me Sakurai's track record of portraying Character s as correctly as possible. And I'd think I'd elaborate on something which I never said but something must have been seen as I said which is I am not saying Sora will be a clone with a Robinesque moveset (despite the fact that he very well could be with a few tweaks but he wouldn't anyway). And I'm fairly certain Square would be nearly as if not as much as disney would be in the negotiations. So Sakurai may see that may be over saturation and decide to give them as many unique reps as sega has. And Geno would have the edge of that if that were to have been the case but don't quote me on that. And just a personal gripe using the dlc characters as examples of all franchises having no representation is fine as everyone else does it but I don't think you should include the Belmont's as I think everyone is in agreement that they don't count because other new third party characters and other new ips did have playable representation in the base game alongside castlevania essentially tearing up the theory.
 

Herocin

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Now there's something that more people should be made aware of! I didn't even know that he was in those games! I'd say that this also proves that Disney is more willing to let Sora's character be used in other games, but this is still just a case of SE using him as opposed to another company. I'd like to know what the overall process was like just to have him included in those games.
I think people are aware of what the games are and whatnot. I personally believe they dont count because they are final fantasy games. Smash would be crossing over with Kingdom Hearts not final fantasy or final fantasy brave exvius. If they were crossing over with the latter the lack of Disney would make sense and as Mr Sakurai likes to correctly portray characters they'd obviously lack Disney despite the fact that Final Fantasy Brave Exvius Sora is too specific of a character to ever be given the light of day
 

fogbadge

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Yeah by death battle I don't mean actual death battle cos there a bad thing to reference in general. https://www.deviantart.com/jjsliderman/journal/Sora-Shows-DEATH-BATTLE-the-Light-722175929 judging by how much is here it's probably the easiest thing to make a moveset from as with a wiki it'd usually involve thumbling around with multiple pages. Secondly it's probably unlikely that joker was chosen because of popularity mainly because he wasn't that popular and the fact he was so new even missing the ballot didn't help things either. And tbh we don't have a clue on why joker was chosen in the first place and there isn't even a definitive answer which the community is all agreeing with so until we know why joker was chosen I don't think it's safe to use him as an example. You may see it was because of him being popular but it could turn out to be because of P5R. And from my perspective most of the if not all the entirety of Kingdom Hearts does involve Disney. So it'd be kind of weird to see Smash Bros Ultimate X Kingdom Hearts but they decide to lack the basic thing which would have been essential to portray the characters series correctly and keep Me Sakurai's track record of portraying Character s as correctly as possible. And I'd think I'd elaborate on something which I never said but something must have been seen as I said which is I am not saying Sora will be a clone with a Robinesque moveset (despite the fact that he very well could be with a few tweaks but he wouldn't anyway). And I'm fairly certain Square would be nearly as if not as much as disney would be in the negotiations. So Sakurai may see that may be over saturation and decide to give them as many unique reps as sega has. And Geno would have the edge of that if that were to have been the case but don't quote me on that. And just a personal gripe using the dlc characters as examples of all franchises having no representation is fine as everyone else does it but I don't think you should include the Belmont's as I think everyone is in agreement that they don't count because other new third party characters and other new ips did have playable representation in the base game alongside castlevania essentially tearing up the theory.
ok but sakurai aint gonna be using a death battle profile to make the moveset he's gonna be using the games
no character has ever been picked to promote a game and youre right it we dont know for sure why joker was included but it seems more likely he was included cause they thought hed sell well rather than to promote a game
when sakurai said he tries to portray a character as accurately as possible hes referring to how the character plays so hed be trying to portray sora's play style which isnt bogged down on disney stuff and to have him play like robin or hero even with a few tweaks would be unfair to the character
sora is owned by diney they wouldnt need to talk to SE at all execpt if sakurai feels he needs to talk to normua about how to handle sora, like he did with cloud, but that would be after he got the licence from disney
if geno did have the edge then why didnt he beat the other SE character?
my point with bringing up the other new 3rd party characters was that by your own logic the lot of them (bar ken) should have been disqualified too, and what are you talking about none of the dlc characters have anything in the base game, no persona, no dragon quest, no banjo kazooie and no king of the fighters. you said that geno having been a costume in the previous game should have given him an edge over sora well by the same logic it should have given him an edge over all the other 3rd party newcomers (again bar ken) because sora isnt owned by SE so geno wouldnt affect him at all so that logic could stretch to all of them especially hero who is owned by the same company
 

Herocin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 29, 2019
Messages
158
ok but sakurai aint gonna be using a death battle profile to make the moveset he's gonna be using the games
no character has ever been picked to promote a game and youre right it we dont know for sure why joker was included but it seems more likely he was included cause they thought hed sell well rather than to promote a game
when sakurai said he tries to portray a character as accurately as possible hes referring to how the character plays so hed be trying to portray sora's play style which isnt bogged down on disney stuff and to have him play like robin or hero even with a few tweaks would be unfair to the character
sora is owned by diney they wouldnt need to talk to SE at all execpt if sakurai feels he needs to talk to normua about how to handle sora, like he did with cloud, but that would be after he got the licence from disney
if geno did have the edge then why didnt he beat the other SE character?
my point with bringing up the other new 3rd party characters was that by your own logic the lot of them (bar ken) should have been disqualified too, and what are you talking about none of the dlc characters have anything in the base game, no persona, no dragon quest, no banjo kazooie and no king of the fighters. you said that geno having been a costume in the previous game should have given him an edge over sora well by the same logic it should have given him an edge over all the other 3rd party newcomers (again bar ken) because sora isnt owned by SE so geno wouldnt affect him at all so that logic could stretch to all of them especially hero who is owned by the same company
It seems that you think that death battle bios are just people making up random old attacks when it isn't. They gather up all their attacks etc. So my point still stands. As samurai takes their attacks from games he will have to pick from hundreds of different options. And it is sorely wrong to assume sakurai only focusses on how the character is portrayed. As for my other parts I still slightly disagree with castlevania. And it's very likely square would be involved in the negotiations even without nomura no matter what way you slice it.
 
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