Sonic's worst matchup

[NickLeo]

Title says it all
What do you guys think sonic's worst/most difficult matchup is at the moment?

 

[Zhea]

I hear spikes are a 100 - 0.

 

[CyberMario]

Begins with a S and ends with your death.

Spacies.

 

[internetmovieguy]

Metaknight. Or competent players who understand that spamming high priority neutral airs is very effective against sonic.

 

[Ness_STFU]

Falco is Sonic's worst nightmare. Lasers just obliterate his momentum and approaches.

I'd imagine a good Peach would be rough, too. Hard to combo due to floatiness, she can wait out his approaches in the air, she can rack up huge percentage with dsmash and she has turnips.

 

[DoctorBoson]

I hate G&W, but I don't have too much trouble with most other local players. Nothing that immediately comes to mind anyways, and nothing that doesn't stem from my over-aggressive play and lack of control.

Persistent disjointed hitboxes + difficult reads + priority makes for some really tough games.

 

[2 C H i L L E D]

AND THE WINNER IS....

"Mishun Compleht!"

FALCO

 

[roxolid]

Wut u meen, wurst matchup
sanic iz best char
hes nt cheep, hes jus fast

I agree with the above elections of Falco, I have quite a bit of trouble against him.

 

[NickLeo]

Honestly, it seems like every character has trouble with falco

 

[roxolid]

Falco even got problems with Falco

 

[TwicH]

Meta Knight and Falco in my opinion. I'd prefer to fight Falco than MK however. Lasers are the main reason why that MU is difficult. Sonic has a better advantage when he can get close. Sonic can chain grab with U-throws which is always lovely. It's your game once you get Falco off stage. If you can't gimp Falco then you need to work on that. Dair and Fair are good for gimping Fire Falco off stage. D-Smash and F-Smash can Hit Falco out of his Side-B and Up-B with good timing while standing on the ledge.

MK on the other hand requires the most patience out of any MU for Sonic. Try to take him to a stage with Space and some platforms. PS2 is my personal favorite. Out of my experience shield grabs seem to be the best option. U-throw can lead into free Fairs and Uairs. MK has slow techs so you can do some sweet tech chases with D-throw. MK also falls fast so you can set up kills easier.

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

MK & Mario is like Sonics worst match up

 

[TwicH]

I think Mario is very overrated. He's so stubby.

 

[Will-O-Wisp]

Does the character have a projectile? Then it's a tough matchup. Does the character have a shine? Then it's an even tougher matchup.

On the flip side, is there a matchup that Sonic dominates? I really can't think of any

 

[GabPR]

How about Bowser vs Sonic? I cant say I have played a lot of high level bowsers, but i can see the matchup going for Sonic. Sure he has his up b oos and his crouchcancel/super armor, but I can see Sonic baiting him to throw our his moves and getting a grab on him pretty easily due to his high mobility, and Bowser lacks a lot of it.

 

[KiNGMONiR]

How about Bowser vs Sonic? I cant say I have played a lot of high level bowsers, but i can see the matchup going for Sonic. Sure he has his up b oos and his crouchcancel/super armor, but I can see Sonic baiting him to throw our his moves and getting a grab on him pretty easily due to his high mobility, and Bowser lacks a lot of it.

Sonic vs heavy characters is just too easy if I'm honest. Massive targets such as Bowsers and D3 will almost always get hit by Sonic's spins, and the followups are plenty. They're literally too slow to react to Sonic's attacks

 

[Solharath]

Sonic's hardest matchups, from my point of view, are thus:

Falco
Link/Tink
Mario
Fire Emblem
MK

No particular order there. I'd put Fox on that list by sheer force of neutral game, and that the best Sonics have not even come close to touching the best Foxes since 2.5, but there's no use arguing that right now. I'm hesitant to put Ganondorf on this list as well, because without a projectile Sonic simply cannot put real pressure on him, as Ganon's Short Hop uairs can keep the hedgehog out, his chaingrab leads into something devestating on a fairly easy read, his bair cuts through our best spacing move, where best chase scenario we trade... but we returnt he pain just as hard so it's really not applicable as a "bad" matchup for Sonic. Just very dangerous.

The only saving grace against Tink is just how slow his boomerang is to come out. Link doesn't have this problem, and nair will still ruin your day. Hitboxes on sticks are Sonic's big problem, and Ike's Quick Draw, when abused, makes the matchup so much harder because you can't run away nearly as well as you'd like.

In response to above, Bowser usually baits a spin and crouches, soaks up the hit with his armor, and UpBs when you SideB, and OoS UpB when your DownB. Spins don't win against Bowser unless you've got him airborne, and even then a nair will end your fun.

 

[Virum]

I disagree with Link and TL being hard match-ups for Sonic. I'd say they're a lot more even than you're making them out to be. NAir from both stuffs a lot of your approaches, but that just means you have mix up your approach options more. Bait and punish the NAirs and weave around the projectiles. I'd honestly say the match-ups are pretty even.

 

[KABO0S]

Anybody seen Wizzrobe with his outrageous play against fox? I think he's figured out the technique to demolish them now. Homing attack off stage, GG.

 

[TGAP37]

IMO marth is his worst matchup, a good marth will be able to zone sonic out fairly easily all sonic can do is try to bait attacks from him, sonic cannot rival the range of marth and it's not like marth is particularly easy to combo with sonic

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

IMO marth is his worst matchup, a good marth will be able to zone sonic out fairly easily all sonic can do is try to bait attacks from him, sonic cannot rival the range of marth and it's not like marth is particularly easy to combo with sonic

I would kind of Compare the Sonic vs Marth MU and Marth vs Doc Match up they're very similar

 

[Solharath]

Marth can get hella punished on any good bait, so I find the matchup to be scary, but manageable. There is nothing a little patience won't do for you, so see if you can't get him to stick his sword out and commit to something. Sonic should not be aggressive in that matchup and without a projectile, Marth becomes a bit more manageable... but he is certainly one of the hardest to deal with on stats alone.

I disagree with Link and TL being hard match-ups for Sonic. I'd say they're a lot more even than you're making them out to be. NAir from both stuffs a lot of your approaches, but that just means you have mix up your approach options more. Bait and punish the NAirs and weave around the projectiles. I'd honestly say the match-ups are pretty even.

I think you're really stretching the idea of weaving around projectiles. I'll venture to say that Tink is a bit more manageable, but Link's boomerang sets up combos for days. If he hits you with a bomb in his hand, he can rush in and AGT his bomb while you're in hitstun and combo from that to deliver a Fair from a good bit away. This while you're weaving from some arrows, and keeping an eye on the bomb, and trying to keep his big ol' sword from hitting and poking you... There is such little commitment Link has to make against Sonic, and if you try to bait out the nair you could just as easily eat Zair, which also cuts through almost all of your approaches, but with a disjointed range in case you try to bait Link out.

I'll stand by the claim that the Link matchup is nowhere near even, but it is very manageable if the Link doesn't know how to fight Sonic, but this is true of every character.

 

[ISMAN0310]

Mario or anybody with a projectile. Also the fire emblem characters are hard to fight against. With sonic bait and punish your opponent.

 

[Neptune Shiranui]

Any thoughts on Sonic vs Snake? I think this MU is in Sonic's favor because he can fair through his cypher and get rid of mines with spring. He might be able to spin under tranquilizer as well. Snake is also great combo food for him.

 

[Nazo]

I don't understand why people don't just learn to press the shield button against Link.

 

[GabPR]

Any thoughts on Sonic vs Snake? I think this MU is in Sonic's favor because he can fair through his cypher and get rid of mines with spring. He might be able to spin under tranquilizer as well. Snake is also great combo food for him.

Sonic cannot go under tranq in flat stages, if sonic uses up b on mines it leaves him vulnerable. Snake nades make it so you cant go through him with down and side b without getting exploded. If thats not enough he has a lot c4 setups that once your tagged, you cannot move freely as you wish. I say the contrary, that it is in Snakes favor. Not imposible though.

 

[Kerfuffle]

How does everybody feel about Sonic's matchups with Mario and Peach?

 

[Pr0fessor Flash]

I feel pretty good with the Peach Match up but not Mario Yet!

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

Sonic's worst matchups feel like mario and snake to me right now. Granted a lot of characters do at least even against him after the nerf hammer. It will be ineresting to see if a buff occurs in 4.0 since people are zoning or spacing him out pretty hard right now.

 

[Virum]

I think you're really stretching the idea of weaving around projectiles. I'll venture to say that Tink is a bit more manageable, but Link's boomerang sets up combos for days. If he hits you with a bomb in his hand, he can rush in and AGT his bomb while you're in hitstun and combo from that to deliver a Fair from a good bit away. This while you're weaving from some arrows, and keeping an eye on the bomb, and trying to keep his big ol' sword from hitting and poking you... There is such little commitment Link has to make against Sonic, and if you try to bait out the nair you could just as easily eat Zair, which also cuts through almost all of your approaches, but with a disjointed range in case you try to bait Link out.

I'll stand by the claim that the Link matchup is nowhere near even, but it is very manageable if the Link doesn't know how to fight Sonic, but this is true of every character.

Link's Boomerang is also punishable at a certain distance. As Nazo said, just shielding his projectiles whilst approaching helps a lot. I noticed in your set against Lazarond he was essentially doing what you should have been doing. Baiting the approaches and then punishing them. Sonic plays the bait and punish game excellently against a lot of characters. I just requires a little bit of patience. Once you solidify the punish Sonic can combo Link for days. I will agree, however, that Link's NAir is definitely a big issue in the match-up due to it basically stuffing your entire moveset lol.

 

[Xion DarkRose]

Out of all the characters mentioned, I'd have to say that I agree with Marth, Metaknight & Dedede being the hardest of the bunch. I'd almost say Mario, but if you're smart hes pretty easy to get over. Take Mario to a platform stage, never choose FD. Avoid fireballs, a good Mario will use them to approach, that's when you work those platforms. Avoid air approaches on a grounded Mario. His upsmash will **** you for free because his head is invincible. Bait him into shielding and go for down grabs and tech chases for damage. for kills go for Uair setups as he will die around 115% on most stages, I've tested this. Grab him around 90% and up throw. Read the DI and Uair, spring Uair is guaranteed kill if you read the DI right.

 

[Kerfuffle]

I don't see why everybody think MK is such a bad match up. It seems like it's just a bait and punish situation. MK gets combo'd fairly hard by sonic. The only thing I can see making this at all good for MK is his recovery shenanigans and disjointed hitboxes.

 

[NickLeo]

Out of all the characters mentioned, I'd have to say that I agree with Marth, Metaknight & Dedede being the hardest of the bunch.

I don't think dedede was mentioned as being a nuisance, but what makes you think that he's a tough MU?

 

[Tryst]

I thought Spacies were easy Vs. Sonic. http://youtu.be/ESaZdfipG7c?t=2m18s Is that just Fox then?

 

[Searing_Sorrow]

I can't tell if colin is really really bad at d.i , or wizzrobe is just that good. Or both. Glad diddy does not fall as fast as fox lol. Still think this matchup is ok for fox, but wonder if that dash is a guaranteed carry off stage for edgeguard. Hate to see the wolf or falcon matchup

 

[DX.Kingz]

All of this is a very valid point indeed. In retrospect Sonic ultimately suffers now as he lacks any kind of ranged move (that's safe! Homing attack is a neutral air waiting to happen) His spins trade with dang near everything, and neutral air is his weakness.

In way of MU I have personally found that among the worst for him tend to favor anyone that has a good ranged move, or hard to hit body. I.E. Samus and Falco for ranged moves their lasers and missiles really make it tough for Sonic just to simply cause pressure.

Counter for ranged fighters:

Samus:From what I have seen and tried, Samus' main objective is to wall you with missiles, while Falco wants to halt all momentum you have short hop lasers. Your best bet with Samus is to match the timing of the missiles and spindash jump in-between the shots approach with HA after missile lag and go from there. Yet don't get greedy or you risk the d-smash reply.

Falco: It's best to stick to platform stages to keep him from pinning you down, play the waiting game. Guard and wait for him to come in for the grab or pillar wave dash back and punish. That's pretty much the best I've been able to apply so far working on more as we speak.

Counter for hard to hit fighters:

This is simply anyone that has a body that is not easy to get to or attack with success.

Marth, Ike, Roy: These three share the basic advantage of the blade, which when timed well cuts you short and destroys recovery in air for Sonic. The only option I find useful for these guys is the waiting game. They have a great deal of end lag on there forward smashes so that is the safest time to strike. L-canceled spins, and moonwalk/wavedash F-smash seems to be of use here. However spot dodge BA is a good alternative.

Olimar: I must say honestly i am still working on a proper response to Olimar. His Pikman make it near impossible to touch him, as they can grab spindash, and fair recovery at every turn. So I will continue my work here and get back to you, and should anyone have and effect counter stratagy for him i would welcome the info.

and sword wielders and Oilmar for hard to his body.

 

[GabPR]

I do not find Samus that hard a matchup tbh. Sword users on the other hand are a different story. I have played a lot against a good Roy player in Puerto Rico named Excel Zero (He is also know to be the best melee player in the island that got around 35th or something at apex) And he is the only one that can really match up to me here besides another fox player. All that I can say is that he mostly never f-smashes unless its guarenteed through a combo, and roy's low knockback dair, up air, up tilt and fair at low percentages make it so he does not have to risk a raw fsmash. How I manage to beat him is to constantly shift my style of play between sets, since he adapts really quickly. I posted the link of the tournament I played him and other matches in the video thread. It is still on twitch since the owner has not uploaded them on youtube, but I will be sure to do so once he does upload them.

 

[Scourge The Hedgehog]

Falco. Always Falco. The laser pressure can be too much. When you get in you can combo the heck out of them. Otherwise its just a patience match on the Sonic's side. Least in my experience.

 

[MasterWolf144]

MK & Mario is like Sonics worst match up

Mario is definitely not. Sonic would walk all over Mario.

 

[GabPR]

Mario is definitely not. Sonic would walk all over Mario.

What makes you believe Sonic does not have problems in the mario match up?