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Sonic.... sonic is kinda bad now

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CHICO 93

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Anyone else feel like sonic got nerfed hard? I mean you can't cancel out of your spin dash anymore so once you start a spin dash your almost stuck with it unless you do a quick move out of it. He has basically no kill throws anymore. Killing him with is harder than ever. Some of the combos outta spin dash don't connect anymore at certain %. His up scissor kick will only hit once alot more than it used too his up smash I feel like people are slipping out of alot more now and I'm just having a hard time winning with him any more..... it's not even fun playing with him cause finishing people off is harder than ever..... anybody else feeling this way about him?
 

RedrappeR

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He plays completely different now. Spindash is nerfed but homing attack got buffed hard. You have to learn him like a new char. Look up the ken match on YouTube
 
D

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As someone who is not a mega sonic fan im probably going to swap to a Little Mac/Toon link main instead of the Little Mac/Sonic main i was in smash 4
 

CHICO 93

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Yeah.... it's just not as fun to play with him anymore.... it's very disappointing... maybe the nerf means shadow is coming and gonna be a better sonic? We can only hope..... cause as of right now he's pretty trash
 

jaimex2

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On the positive side.

Dash dancing, dash attack and homing attack all got buffs. Sonic now plays more like Fox.

Cancelling SD with shield is gone but you dont have to commit, just hit A. You have plenty of options if they try and move in including a really fast HA.

It even feels easier to kill with running up smash.

As noted above he's almost a new character so were going to have to re-invent how to best play him.
 

Tesh

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You don't need spindash cancels when you can stop on a dime anyway. I'll miss the noise pollution, but its not a huge loss for feints. With directional airdodging, you can SDJ-AD back if you want to mimic it, but I'm not sure if its worth. Spindash and all of the spindash-esque moves (like roller and withdraw) have the option of directional airdodging so you have lots of mixup potential when using them.

Spindash combos aren't gone, they are just different, so you just need to get the hang of what do when you hit people with the different versions. The easiest thing to do is just homing attack and reset for the juggle.

Killing isn't that tough, sonic bair is stronger than ever, still ends before his SH is over (so you can jump or dodge) and the limitations on airdodging make his edgeguarding tougher to deal with.

Uair is unfortunately less functional than ever. It doesn't appear to link properly on grounded targets ever (doesn't lift them into the 2nd hit) as well is sometimes in the air. I'd only use it not because it autocancels and of course when you need the vertical range in a juggle.

Homing attack is kind of insane. Its so fast, so accurate and you can charge it for quite a while and it does 24 damage fully charged and kills.
 

iSpiN

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I would still consider Sonic better than a third of the cast from the game engine alone. Bair and Fsmash still kill fairly early. Homing Attack is amazing currently as a mixup tool. We still have combos, but it will be different.

It's still better than Brawl Sonic.
 

iSpiN

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Good ole' Espy.

We still have good moves to work with. We just will need to play Sonic differently like every Smash thus far.
 

TheMagicalKuja

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I dunno what you talking about TC. I won't call Sonic perfect or anything, but I really like how he handles here compared to past games.

Like for instance, homing attack being a viable move now.
 

Spitfire16

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It's too early for us to be making that assumption don't you think? He might not be as good as he was in Smash4 but Sonic doesn't feel like a bad character, we should let him and the rest of the roster develop a little bit before jumping to conclusions. Sonic feels good once you adjust to the changes, he's a bit closer to his Brawl counterpart with some good tweaks here and there. He feels more balanced as a fighter based around insane speed, in Smash4 there was too much nonsense Sonic could do and get away with for free and I'm saying that as a Sonic main.

It's hard to say if he's still top 10, I remember seeing Kels say she doesn't think he's really high in the league anymore, but at the same time 6WX made a comment about Sonic being top tier(again, it's far too early to tell), unless I misinterpreted what he said lol.
 
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LightLV

Smash Ace
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Nov 17, 2014
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Anyone else feel like sonic got nerfed hard? I mean you can't cancel out of your spin dash anymore so once you start a spin dash your almost stuck with it unless you do a quick move out of it. He has basically no kill throws anymore. Killing him with is harder than ever. Some of the combos outta spin dash don't connect anymore at certain %. His up scissor kick will only hit once alot more than it used too his up smash I feel like people are slipping out of alot more now and I'm just having a hard time winning with him any more..... it's not even fun playing with him cause finishing people off is harder than ever..... anybody else feeling this way about him?
Sonic becomes way more interesting once you realize that:

1) him having 2 seperate spindash behaviors (single hit vs. passthrough) is really valuable

2) Sonic is one of the most agile (if not THE most agile) character in the game even without his spindashes thanks to the game's new dash mechanics

3) the new homing attack is ACTUALLY ridiculous.


You can literally punish people midscreen for pressing almost anything with homing attack, its extremely difficult to react to and it becomes a kill move the longer you hold it.

edgeguarding with sonic is almost just as simple as knocking them off, running off the stage and charging a homing attack.


but the real killer is that you are still free to use homing attack after any of your spindashes. It's always a threat.
 
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MarKO X

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Sonic isn't bad. He's different.

Jab seems to have shorter range, but is still 3 frames.
Ftilt is my amazing spacing tool and can get kills around 150 if you're controlling the stage like you should.
Dtilt and utilt can start combos at low percents. Utilt can also clip opponents on platforms.

Fsmash has this improved hitbox. It's no sword, but it's been jamming people pretty hard for me. If I anticipate someone coming at me from a 45 degree like angle, I basically call that aerial out with an up angled fsmash and take the stock real quick.
Dsmash can still catch people off guard, still two frame if you're good, and still punish those who regrab the ledge, but you have to do it faster because people can come up off the ledge faster in this game than in Smash 4.
Usmash is stronger and can guarantee kills earlier with a good read.

Fair is great now. If you somehow manage to connect without hitting the last hit due to landing, you can get a combo on the ground because it has a drag down effect while having less landing lag. I've done drag down into dtilt into nair, and that feels great. Short hop fair can catch people jumping predictably, clip people on a platform, give you an alternate way off the ledge, edgeguards... it's a great move.
Bair is still great. It still hurts the opponent, still has a ridiculous hitbox
Uair doesn't work. Hopefully they fix it.
Dair... eh... I'm starting to use it less and less. The spike can be clutch for earlier percents, but with the way edgeguarding works here, fair and bair are usually better choices. If I use a spring to escape, landing a "lagless" dair still makes me lag for some reason. I'd rather just fastfall then air dodge or something. It still has its uses,
Nair is my friend. Because shield grabbing got nerfed both mechanically and through our shortened grab range, I use nair OoS. This move has so much less lag now and is much safer. I never had a cross up nair on shield that's been punished. I can nair and then jab if I think the opponent is going to shield grab me. If they release the shield, nair can combo into a multitude of moves. Nair is one of those moves that does everything I ever wanted it to do in Smash.

Homing Attack, everyone agrees is great. Mix up, Punish, Edgeguarding, even Recovery against someone trying to edgeguard you... this thing is another move that does everything I ever wanted Homing Attack to do in Smash and then some.
Spin Dash still has 6 frames of invincibility, so you can definitely use it to cover landing and punish attacks still. Also, if you're having trouble killing, using a slightly charged ASC at higher percents can nab a kill for some reason.
Spin Charge is different, but still great. At low percents, you can Spin Charge into nair for 30% damage. I've gotten 35% with it in match before, it's insane. Note: you have to hold forward to max out the damage during the roll.
A falling Spring can be used to condition opponents' recoveries, and make edgeguaring easier. For example, you drop a spring right at the ledge, and the opponent gets hit. Do that enough, and the opponent is going to recover differently, either a little farther away than they usually do or a little closer, and maybe even under the stage, than they usually do. So you maintain control of the stage while still dropping Springs every time you knock the opponent off stage, and then, when they least expect it, you hit them with fair if they recover farther away for the kill, or with bair if they try to get closer.

Leffen made a tier list video, and in it, he explained that a fast character isn't necessarily a character with just a quick run speed, but with a quick initial dash. We have the third best initial dash in the game (and of course, top speed), and I've been using that to my advantage. Just like in Smash 4 where there was a pretty specific range that we were optimal at for punishing, the same applies here. You can get dash attack to keep people in the air and catch that ever so slight landing lag on their short hop aerials, you can dash real quick into a short hop fair to punish them for jumping without a hitbox, or you can hit a quick back pivot ground move to punish their landing as well.

Stage control is truly important, we do have to be a little more aggressive because shield grabbing was nerfed mechcanially (as was our grab range), and we also have to be a little more precise in our attacks and in our movement. Also, at some point we're gonna have to figure out what moves kill at what percents, because killing can be an issue, at least for me.

Also, I feel like Battlefield is smaller than what it used to be and isn't doing us any favors initially, but we just gotta adapt.

Overall, this is not a bad character. Only characters I've been struggling against are Marth, Lucina, Roy, and Mewtwo. Other than that, there are still matchups to learn, but I fear no character. Inklings are easy if you shield the roller and punish their ink recharge, KRool is easy if you don't get grabbed, and Belmonts are easy because homing attack will punish their projectiles on reaction and they're hilariously easy to edgeguard. "2nd best character in the game" Chrom gets smoked because we edgeguard him for free... sometimes the fear of Chrom getting hit leads him to lose a stock.

But yeah. I think this character is great. Definitely bottom of top tier or top of high tier.
 
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Aussie1024

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I don't necessarily think Sonic is a bad character in this game. Sure, he cannot camp anymore like in Smash 4, which hinders his asset of unpredictability. However, Ultimate buffed a lot of Sonic's attacks. Homing Attack is viable for the first time in the series. It can be a good surprise option of approaching and a decent combo finisher. A few of his grabs are still good combo starters (F-Throw, U-Throw, B-Throw).

His aerials are also very useful. Bair still does great damage and knock back, fair is amazing (especially on a short hop), and Nair is such a great ally for a surprise attack. His smash attacks do have some startup lag, but if you time them well, they can KO pretty decently.

While Sonic's camping ability was nerfed, they really buffed his attack power. This was a welcome change for me because I could NEVER use a campy Sonic in Smash 4. I didn't know how to mix it up with his other attacks and keep my opponents on their heels. I always got caught being too predictable. However, with him having to be more aggressive, I feel I am freed up to be more unpredictable with my approaches and such.

Overall, I do not think Sonic is a bad character. I think he's an above-average to great character. His buffed attack moves and still-insane speed are surely gonna help him. Mixing it up with different moves and approaches are key as always, since it's easy to get predictable with him. At least for me, it'll be easy being less predictable with not having to camp so much.
 
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