Social Sonic Says: Ultimate

[Groudon_sama]

Sonic really doesn't need to be changed if there's gonna be a balance patch, buffs are a hell no for him according to everyone, and he doesn't have anything that needs nerfed either

On the other hand sheik and rosa will be chilling untouched, again... ResidentSleeper

 

[Luig]

I will personally send a letter to nintendo if shiek and rosa get untouched, when we've been dealing with 1.0.6.

 

[ChikoLad]

I will personally send a letter to nintendo if shiek and rosa get untouched, when we've been dealing with 1.0.6.

I don't think any of the top tiers need to be touched.

I disagree with Sonic getting nerfed (other than his back throw being toned down a bit), but I hate the idea of wanting other top tiers to be nerfed out of bitterness.

Also FYI Rosalina was touched last patch. Luma's HP buffed by 3 (though it's still lower than his HP was at launch), and knockback growth on Rosalina's rabid jab finisher was reduced.

-----------

Aaron Webber once again doing god's work.

 

[Luig]

I meant if we get nerfed and they get untouched, when I would much rather just have everybody under the top 5 or so just get buffed and no nerfs.

 

[ChikoLad]

I meant if we get nerfed and they get untouched, when I would much rather just have everybody under the top 5 or so just get buffed and no nerfs.

That's the thing though, other top tiers don't deserve to be nerfed just because Sonic gets an unjustified nerf.

Really I would rather they just back pedal on some of Sonic's nerfs. Which isn't unheard of.

 

[Luig]

You do have a point.

If they undid the nerfs, its a win win, since Sonics don't have to play as campy and there would be less complaints, and we would be fine as a character.

 

[ChikoLad]

Me personally I don't feel my playstyle with Sonic has been hurt too much by the nerfs, and I still feel like I can be fairly aggressive with him. Though other than the back throw which was kind of ridiculous before the nerf, I think he didn't deserve any nerfs.

And honestly people are always going to find a reason to complain about Sonic, just like how they will always complain about Rosalina, Villager, ZSS, etc. Top tiers are always targets merely because they are called top tiers.

 

[Espy Rose]

3 KO moves get nerfed.
But hey, at least we got SDJ combo potential.
Right?

...Right?

 

[*JuriHan*]

3 KO moves get nerfed.
But hey, at least we got SDJ combo potential.
Right?

...Right?

wait, THREE? U-smash, b-throw... what was the third one?

 

[Luig]

Its dsmash front, Bthrow and fsmash.
Utilt kos earlier than dsmash front now.

 

[*JuriHan*]

Its dsmash front, Bthrow and fsmash.
Utilt kos earlier than dsmash front now.

Eeeeew. Didn't know about d-smash. I can understand the b-throw nerf- but u-smash was not warranted. Sure, it was strong- but it required a hard read to land- and if you missed you are left wide open to punishment with all the cooldown it has. You needed a read and to commit- while we have Mario with his fast, pretty safe u-smash that has invincibility frames... that's no good.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

**** this game. Camp even more.

 

[Luig]

Well, placebo is a strong thing. Complete list of changes:
Fsmash kbg: 106-101
Fsmash sfx altered


We survived.

 

[Giovani44]

has sonic always done 4%? with down throw

 

[cerealkiller]

No, I think Dthrow dealt 7%.

 

[Luig]

Dthrow still deals 7%
We already found the changes.

 

[jordanm43444]

Hold that thought. Im working on something that could be a setup, just need to get it on stream to ensure it works.

So since YT uploads exsist I managed to get this setup in video form. This is more of a read based setup and would likely work if your opponent airdodged

Heavyweight video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5DrjXAh60I
Mediumweight video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B71Ded7-5rM

It however will not work on any lightweight character as I have found out

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Sonic got nerfed AGAIN?!?!?!

They better not have touched my boy Ike though.

 

[Luig]

Ike Uair:
Base Knockback: 40→55
Knockback growth: 100 → 94
Nah, uair was buffed and dtrhow collateral hitbox was moved.

 

[ぱみゅ]

What is the deal of keep nerfing Sonic?

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

What is the deal of keep nerfing Sonic?

I dunno. I just hope they fix him for real next time there's an update. It's beginning to make me think he may be cut from the next title.

 

[Espy Rose]

Rofl. It's Sonic the ****ing hedgehog. He isn't going anywhere.

 

[SonicMario]

I dunno. I just hope they fix him for real next time there's an update. It's beginning to make me think he may be cut from the next title.

I wouldn't go that far. Nerfing a character has nothing to do with if they're going to be there for the next game. I think we can safely say Sonic's a staple now. Their only chance to cut him was during Smash 4's development cause they could of had the excuse of "Snake and Sonic were guests" (Which would of still been bull**** anyway, but I digress.)

But now with Sonic in half the games (More then half if you consider 3DS and Wii U as separate games) he's almost as safe as the Original 12 pretty much. Also DLC for Smash exists now, so even if somehow he didn't make it into the default game there would be intense want for Sonic's return through DLC. But I doubt it'd get to that point.

 

[Jason the Yoshi]

Rofl. It's Sonic the ****ing hedgehog. He isn't going anywhere.

I wouldn't go that far. Nerfing a character has nothing to do with if they're going to be there for the next game. I think we can safely say Sonic's a staple now. Their only chance to cut him was during Smash 4's development cause they could of had the excuse of "Snake and Sonic were guests" (Which would of still been bull**** anyway, but I digress.)

But now with Sonic in half the games (More then half if you consider 3DS and Wii U as separate games) he's almost as safe as the Original 12 pretty much. Also DLC for Smash exists now, so even if somehow he didn't make it into the default game there would be intense want for Sonic's return through DLC. But I doubt it'd get to that point.

I'm not saying he absolutely will be cut at all, in fact I highly doubt it. The catch is that I don't think he'll ever be "absolutely guaranteed" to come back.

 

[UberMadman]

So two things I want to say right now: first, only Sonic's F-Smash got nerfed this patch. That's all. I don't know why @ Espy Rose keeps saying otherwise, (no offense or anything.)

Second of all, after having been on the receiving end of another bit of anti-Sonic vitriol on the subreddit once again which ended up with two people telling me to go **** myself and one other saying to me "**** you and **** Sonic", I am finding myself incapable of putting up with this crap any longer. As a result, I would like to post a thread on the subreddit addressing anti-Sonic bias and talking about the hate that us Sonic players get on a daily basis, and I was hoping that if I did so, some of you guys would be willing to share some stories of hate that you and other players you know have been on the receiving end of. Please let me know if you'd be willing to contribute or if I'm just being foolish and stubborn.

 

[Luig]

Which reddit? I might be able to help.

 

[UberMadman]

/r/smashbros, the main Smash subreddit.

 

[Luig]

Sorry for asking, but I have a reddit account, what was the thread thing name?

 

[UberMadman]

I haven't created it yet.

I'm trying to gauge interest in it here before I create it so that if people think it's a bad idea I won't create it. However, it looks like I won't be creating the thread tonight ANYWAYS because it's near 4 a.m. where I am right now and I need SOME level of sleep.

 

[Espy Rose]

I totally agree with Dan's datamining, but I really want an explanation for why the launcher stats I accrued during the patch did not match up with the data I collected from the pre-patch 1.0.9 data despite the patch notes.

That's been bothering me all day.

 

[Luig]

This is why you should have listened to me and used ko%

But seriously, maybe they changed something about the measurement?

 

[Espy Rose]

Possibly, but wouldn't that show up in the data that was mined?
I'll probably do KO percents from here on out, but the data was mined within a day. I kinda feel like it's a bit fruitless when the 100% evidence is right there.

 

[Camalange]

Sonic hate will never go away.

r/smashbros is literal cancer.

That's about all there is to it.


As for the data...

Unfortunately, this is not my field so I can't offer too much insight... But I probably won't be able to update my Wii U for a while so I can test things.

Espy making a post longer than one sentence!? I must be in the Twilight Zone. @_@

That is extremely useful info, though, so thanks for posting it. =D

Yes, and it should be properly archived in not a single social thread post...

@ Sonic Orochi ?

Hold that thought. Im working on something that could be a setup, just need to get it on stream to ensure it works.

Holding.

 

[Espy Rose]

Cam, you don't have an updated WiiU Sm4sh?
Can you do me a favor then?

Can you test fsmash, bthrow, dsmash, and (somehow) SDJ knockback?
For the first three, just how long it takes to KO a Player 2 in a regular game with zero DI.
The latter, see if you can test how far they launch somehow.

I believe the datamine, but I REALLY just wanna mull over these four moves again, since they were the only things in the spreadsheet I made that had different results.

 

[Camalange]

Cam, you don't have an updated WiiU Sm4sh?
Can you do me a favor then?

Can you test fsmash, bthrow, dsmash, and (somehow) SDJ knockback?
For the first three, just how long it takes to KO a Player 2 in a regular game with zero DI.
The latter, see if you can test how far they launch somehow.

I believe the datamine, but I REALLY just wanna mull over these four moves again, since they were the only things in the spreadsheet I made that had different results.

The launch test will probably be harder for me as that's not something I normally know how to test for, but the KO test should be easy enough.

I can't say how soon I can get this by. The reason for my decreased activity is that I'm moving so that is consuming me right now.

I also don't know how soon I'll get internet at my new place, which is the main reason I haven't updated, lmao.

 

[Espy Rose]

I can tell you how to test launch distance whenever, and there's no rush, so long as moving in doesn't take so long that another patch swings by.

Also, posted by footstool data in a new thread, along with a quick video.

 

[Camalange]

I can tell you how to test launch distance whenever, and there's no rush, so long as moving in doesn't take so long that another patch swings by.

Also, posted by footstool data in a new thread, along with a quick video.

This week has been difficult but I think in the next few days things should be pretty much back on track. I'd be happy to contribute what I can once I've gotten my bearings.

And thank you and everyone else for compiling that data. I think it'd be good if either myself or Orochi provided a link to that in our stickies so it can be referenced down the line as well.

 

[Sonic Orochi]

Been having a troublesome week as well and thus haven't been able to update anything at all (Smashboards and Wii U alike). Plus, we're having a tourney this weekend and it's gonna be prepatch anyway.

On a side note, literally ALL balance patches happened within a few days before a big tourney we were organizing at the time. They were not this close, though. Unbelievable.

 

[Luig]

@ UberMadman , yep, the sonic hate is real.

PikminWithTourettes -11 points 2 days ago

I feel bad for StaticManny. He get's sh*t on for having a different playstyle because it isn't entertaining to most people. Then again, this is the Smash community. Expecting us to not ***** about every little thing is like expecting Garfield to stop eating lasagna...it's just not going to happen.

Robbyfoxx -9 points 2 days ago

I find it really humorous how salty people get about the sonic "camp". Game one wasn't campy and incredibly close. Game two was but still really showed the prominent strategizing in both switching customs and counter picking stages. Game three was incredible adaptation from ally to beat a strategy and a player. Anyone who flames Manny for his play style is an absolute idiot because they know they could never amount to beating it. It's incredibly exciting to watch it come down to last stock and that last rush of adrenaline in the final seconds.

Seriously!? Under the point threshold for good opinions?

 

[UberMadman]

It's funny you mention that because the reason I came here is because of what happened to MY comment:

UberMadman -17 points 1 day ago

Not gonna lie, as a former Sonic main I'm kind of upset that we are the butt of every joke just because some players decide to play campy. Every thread I go to that has some mention of Sonic there's always someone telling Sonic mains in some form or another to go **** themselves. Not to single you out, I'm sure you and everyone else are only intending it as humor and not trying to offend anyone, but it creates a heavy prejudice that I feel everywhere I go.

To which I got the response:

bravepvp 29 points 1 day ago

Go **** yourself