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Sonic Matchup Export #2: Diddy Kong

Mr. Johan

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Matchup Discussion #2 - Diddy Kong



Current Matchup Ratio: +2 :diddy:

Sonic Consensus: TBD


This thread will be used to compile all Matchup-relevant data, and to keep discussion of the matchup clear and concise. Please refrain from submitting a MU ratio only; try to elaborate on the MU so everyone can understand why the MU ratio is what it is.

Match Up Summary and Key Points


Main Things to Watch For, and How to Fight It

Stage Picks, Stage Bans

Important Links

~Broken Bananas and Pestering Peanuts: The General Diddy Guide V1.0 Complete!!!~
The Diddy Kongpendium: ATs, Must Reads, and More *read this if you're new* (4/2/12)
 

Unsound_Shinobi

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Well, I don't really fight professional Diddy's, and my Diddy is by no means top notch, but I think some important things that help us out are easy banana pick ups with dash attack, we're over all faster so we can easily nab bananas away from a careless Diddy, Sonic can semi nana lock as well, which can set up for a good fsmash, and if the Diddy messes up the nana lock we can spring out of it pretty easily. Also, we can gimp them out of their up B fairly easily, setting up for an even easier back air under the stage, where they pretty much get trapped.

As far as things they beat us at, a Diddy with nana in front, nana in hand, and pop gun camping is fairly difficult to approach, that darn over b kick will connect through just about anything, and I think the Diddy aerial game over all beats us out, also, watch out for the down throw, it seems to kill at decent percents.

I'd give the match-up +1 in our favor.
 

Life

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...in our favor? uhhhhhhh

Well, our glide toss is pretty ridiculous, and Diddy gives us plenty of opportunity to use it. On the other hand, we can't iSDR camp him easily--his dtilt clanks with it. Getting him offstage is the important bit--spring wrecks the barrels if you can time it correctly.

Honestly, it's anywhere from 0 to -2 -- I don't have enough experience to comment further (I don't think pgh even has a Diddy) -- but it's almost certainly tilted to the latter.
 

XLR8TION

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+1 in our favor? PSSSSSSH your funny.

Idk how to explain this mu, I just play it. But far as I know, don't go to BF vs diddy.

I've played some diddy's on wifi(mostly wifi abusers) and as far as offline only diddy ive played was Sin. Never played Lie at all.
 

Brawlman1000

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Really BF? I'd suggest staying away from FD. Like XLR8 its kinda hard for me to explain the MU I just play it. However this MU is most certainly not in our favor.

My thoughts on the MU I guess would be that Diddy's entire game plan is gonna revolve around nana play. Seeing as his nanas beat out our SD approaches and charged peanuts clank with em I'd suggest not spinning as much in this MU. Luckily for us Sonic is really fast so when Diddy deploys his nanas we have the speed to run up and steal them plus Sonic has a super sexy glide toss which really comes in handy. The Diddys I play rarely get gimped by the spring but its good to use anyway cuz you can rack up some nice damage with it and possibly get a K.O. SpinShot can work to get around a Diddy camping with peanuts behind a nana and I just find it to be a great tool overall. Don't really know what to say bout Diddy's air game other than its fast and F-air will be used to kill at reasonable percents. Btw u really shouldn't be dying until like 140 or so and we should be killing Diddy round the same percent or maybe even earlier. Watch out for Diddy's throws. They can kill u with bad DI and plus they come out really fast.

As for stages whenever I play LA's Diddys we usually agree on SV first. If they lose they CP me to FD unless I ban it (which I always do) at which point we just go back to SV. If I lose I always CP them to Rainbow Cruise unless they ban it then I would prolly go to Frigate, BF, or back to SV. But as for the main ban/CP ban FD and CP Rainbow.

As for the MU ratio I can't really see any one thing that either character has over the other so I would say its 0 dead even.

My opinion on my favorite MU. I've never done a summary like this b4 so I might have some stuff wrong/left out lol. But its one top tier MU I feel Sonic does very well in.

Plus we can do this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQXaCA4XF4s&feature=my_favorites&list=FL2qW4NppQAo3EE7kjZFWYsA
Extremely hard to execute in the heat of battle but if the Japanese have thought us anything its that nothing is impossible.
 

MeekSpeedy

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I don't really play Diddy Kongs, but when I do, I outplay them.

Stay smart, my friends.

But on the real...Diddy and Sonic are kinda dead even without nanners. But since he can spawn bananas and we can't, he wins the matchup since he'll have control of the bananas 90% of the time (If you somehow take control of both bananas...g'****)

Of course, my item play is relatively bad (in comparison to Diddy mains) so I just throw them on a platform or far away from him and just try to fight him.
 

XLR8TION

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Well brawlman I guess BF is a personal choice for you, but diddy is stupid on BF. I guess what I can say is, sheildgrab dash attacks, bait diddy fairs(it's his laggiest ariel I think), dont powersheild naners thrown at you(you'll still go into slipping animation).
 

Brawlman1000

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I've actually never played on BF vs a Diddy it just doesn't seem like a bad stage. Why do u say its bad for us XLR8?
 

B.A.M.

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honestly I do believe this MU is even; I only see it in his favor due to Diddy's being better at naner control but thats a player thing.

The biggest thing for me in this MU is understanding how to implement item control alongside spin dash. you HAVE to understand how to do this to be efficient in the MU imo. You can pick up any item you roll over and naners are no exception. You can z-drop naners as u are doing any aerial spin. our DA and fair (by far the more important one) are good at picking up naners as well. PLEASE learn to dash cancel z-pickup ( iono the exact name for it). it allows us to use our amazing run speed to pick up naners without lagging due to some aerial or dash attack.

Also when fighting Diddy understand that diddy glide tossing toward you puts you at frame advantage. You can aerial OoS, but the preferred tactic SHOULD be shield grab imo unless u want to setup a string like sh fair to catch naner>glidetoss forward> stuff.
This is HUGE in the MU because u need to understand that staying in shield vs a diddy holding naners isnt all that bad coupled with up b if need be.

Diddy also has a fairly slow dair which equates to some good juggle potential for us. Speaking of aerial Diddy, always remember side b by Diddy can always be punished with a retreating bair ON REACTION. Due to the input of the move you can catch some diddys in some bad DI. Even if your reaction is bad and you miss the read you can just walk away, dj if they have a naner or whatever. Also once you have a naner dont just throw them blindly, use them with a purpose. You notice the Diddy likes to retrieve his naners ASAP, drop them and use them as bait. Diddy like to throw them back at you? throw them then run and sh fair or uair them while catching the naner automatically. Our speed already allows us to bait the crap out of the entire cast. With naners, we are able to actively pressure while being completely freed up in terms of movement.

When it comes to tosses we have Diddy pretty much beat. We can SDSC Glide toss, regular glide toss, SDSC jump cancel toss and regular jump cancel toss; the latter two being relatively the same distance as Diddys glide toss. even as we glide, we can alter spacing with retreating and advancing SDSC. We can punishing their own knowledge of glide toss punishing with a jump cancel toss to a fsmash punishing a spotdodge, shield grab, and aerial. Be creative here we seriously destroy this field.

When it comes to punishing his recovery, we have bair to intercept side b, spring to punish up b. Toss a naner into the mix and it becomes very difficult for Diddy, sometimes almost solidifying a gimp ( Glide tossing up a naner at the edge allows u to be aggressive offstage making any delay in Diddy recovery equal gimp by naner). Even if he grabs the edge Diddy has a hard time dealing with bair traps. or just simply standing outside his ledge attack range. If he tries to drop down and pull a naner, a simple run off spring could seal the deal.

Lastly I want to add something that is flat out hilarious imo. Diddy often is feared with a naner in his hand becoming one of the greatest punishers in the game. However, when a Diddy has a naner he actually has a huge weakness that really only gets abused by us; inability to deal with ASC pressure. Once he has a naner in his hand, we can attack in this manner with little repercussions. The one thing he can do is jump up and throw a naner; which can be caught by any aerial out of our ASC. Why is this so good? Becuz Diddy as a character without naner is not too bad, however Diddy with naners is the real threat. Versus Us? We have tools to make him have to pay for holding a naner in his hand for too long. We also dont have to deal with the real estate taken by grounded naners. We can even sit in spin dash and simply go right through naners as shown here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DzX-FYONrw#t=4m54s

*Note: I dont play the MU nearly as well as I should in this game.

I do have some matches vs Vato where I play it somewhat decent. Ill try to put those up when i can. My wii's reader recently died : (





Lastly, dont get smashed by dash attack. you can grab it every time.
 

XLR8TION

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@brawlman, from what I've seen BF(well the platforms) seems like it helps diddy nanner game.
 

Brawlman1000

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Thats what I thought when I first played a Diddy main. When I took a game off him I immediately banned BF so he CP me to FD. I lost there and he then told me that he didn't like BF against Sonic. I thought about it and thought that maybe BF's platforms might hinder Diddy's nana game. But then again maybe he just doesn't feel comfortable on that stage vs Sonic. I've never really seen any Diddy vs Sonic matches on BF tho, got any vids?
 

B.A.M.

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dude diddy is not amazing on BF man. That doesnt make sense at all. I just cannot agree with that. Especially compared to FD. Why would u allow him to lock you across the freakin stage for free? The only reason BF would be bad is if we ourselves have trouble operating on it, not the other way around.

@WedginatorX : I dont think its you, I think thats just how it should be straight up.
 

vato_break

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diddy vs sonic is 55:45 diddys favor, mainly because diddy has a slightly easier time getting kills. However, both still will struggle getting kills. When the MU is played correctly, both characters will live to higher percents. Diddy isn't bad on bf, infact diddy gets a couple new tricks and gimmcks due to the platforms(such as regualr and nana combos, locks, and infinites.) The key to beating diddy is having good banana control. Your control doesn't have to be better or even up to par with the diddys, you just need to understand what the diddy is doing with bananas, the reactions, and to use the banana successfully.


Jebus is bad vs sonic :p
 

XLR8TION

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I woud think so too, although vato plays bam and probably pheonix. He also does wifi so he probabl ran into sonics there :T
 

Mr. Johan

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So common consensus is :sonic: 45:55 :diddy:?

That was a good writeup, BAM. I've never heard of this "Dash Cancel Z-pickup" though, are there any vids for it?

A few minor things in the matchup: Grounded bananas have no effect on Sonic's Dthrow, at least during the leap up (probably because Sonic goes into his spin ball form), and the second hit of Diddy's Dash Attack seemingly has so little hitstun that it's possible to powershield the third hit of the attack if the first hit is powershielded, allowing you to avoid a DA followup, and react/punish accordingly.
 

Tesh

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So common consensus is :sonic: 45:55 :diddy:?

That was a good writeup, BAM. I've never heard of this "Dash Cancel Z-pickup" though, are there any vids for it?

A few minor things in the matchup: Grounded bananas have no effect on Sonic's Dthrow, at least during the leap up (probably because Sonic goes into his spin ball form), and the second hit of Diddy's Dash Attack seemingly has so little hitstun that it's possible to powershield the third hit of the attack if the first hit is powershielded, allowing you to avoid a DA followup, and react/punish accordingly.
Part of the Dthrow animation must be invincible. I've had it happen to me where I get tripped by jumping into the platform during dthrow.
 

BSP

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That was a good writeup, BAM. I've never heard of this "Dash Cancel Z-pickup" though, are there any vids for it?
Same here. Clarification please?

I think you guys covered everything. I've got work on this MU because I sometimes try to autopilot through it, and that just gets :sonic: wrecked.

Also, does anyone else think that if we really wanted to, we can avoid Diddy fairly easily? I know on SV, using spindashes and the platform, you can pretty much stay off of the main ground for as long as you want, and most diddy players won't chase you because their banana game is more effective on the ground.
 

True Blue

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I like playing Diddy's on SmashVille cause it is pretty open and there is not always a platform in your way, I have played Diddy's on Battlefield and the platforms have gotten in my way and the Diddy's have better tricks there. Feel more comfortable on FD or SV. And whenever you shield a banana it usually pops up in the air so knowing that is good and if you jump as the banana is about to hit you it won't trip you up and you can just Up B or something of the sorts. Though I don't know a lot of what to say for the matchup itself and I am only learning from the only Diddy I play here in Florida which is GDX.

As for the D Throw animation there is a part of it that has Super Armor when he turns into the Spin Ball and before he starts to wail on the opponent. And then I have seen people do D Throw with Sonic while a Banana was on the platform directly above them and it trips you up because it hits you before the animation has actually begun.
 

Player 7

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LOL HOW COULD YOU GIVE +2? LOLOLOL
ALL SONIC DO IS RUN, AND IF THERE IS BANANAS ON THE FLOOR HE IS DEAD LOL
really guys, I don't know what the hell is wrong with you, here in argentina is +6 the mu lol
you suck
 

JMan8891

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LOL HOW COULD YOU GIVE +2? LOLOLOL
ALL SONIC DO IS RUN, AND IF THERE IS BANANAS ON THE FLOOR HE IS DEAD LOL
really guys, I don't know what the hell is wrong with you, here in argentina is +6 the mu lol
you suck
Argentina???

Is there even a Sonic there?

:phone:
 

B.A.M.

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LOL HOW COULD YOU GIVE +2? LOLOLOL
ALL SONIC DO IS RUN, AND IF THERE IS BANANAS ON THE FLOOR HE IS DEAD LOL
really guys, I don't know what the hell is wrong with you, here in argentina is +6 the mu lol
you suck
LOL this dude plays sonics that dont know spin dash exist! BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
 
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