Guide Sonic GUIDE/FAQ: ASK QUESTIONS HERE

[jaimex2]

Really? I almost always full charge my down b before relasing.

You're pretty vulnerable in down B charge if your opponent knows the match up as you're locked into committing, jumping or fizzing out. Against Corin or Bayo there's a chance of things getting ugly fast.

 

[West End]

I often just use it on shield or as a mix up option. Also, If I can tell if an opponent is going to spot doge, then I can slow it down just a bit to catch them into a combo. I am not saying that is what you should do or if it even wise, taht is just what I do and is my personal opinion.

 

[Jontho]

Hey everyone!
So recently picked up Sonic and were wondering 2 things:

1) Does Sonic players use any special controlscheme? As of right now, I use TJ off and c-stick set to attack.

2) What character specific tech for Sonic is a necessity in tournament play. It's quite daunting how many different tech that Sonic has, so I don't know where to start.

 

[MERPIS]

Why the heck do people even think Sonic loses to 4 characters? He only slightly loses to cloud or mewtwo and that's it.

 

[West End]

In response to your question Jontho, there is no special controller setup that you need to learn. However, if you have tap jump off, get ready for some tech to be a little more complicated than you bargained for. Sonic doesn't benefit much of off bidou, so don't worry about that to much.
The Tech you should definitey work on before takeing sonic to any tournament is his side special shield cancel. ITs quite simple. Dash in any direction, then press side b. Before the move is all the way charged, tap and hold your sheild button. Viola! You have your Spin dash shield cancel.
You may also want to learn sonics spin launch and spin jump. I am not very good at eplaining it, so here are some links.
https://smashboards.com/threads/new-sonic-advanced-technique-the-instant-spin-dash-jump.373605/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JOJ3Ri0zALs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wisyvpoh6JE
This last one is just a neat kill confirm. Don't learn it if you don;t want to
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoH5c6LUwKQ

 

[West End]

IN response to your question MERPIS, SOnic loses to mewtwo, cloud, maybe to Rosaluma, and then he loses to megaman. He loses mostly to characters that have a decent projectile because it shuts down his spindash.

 

[MERPIS]

IN response to your question MERPIS, SOnic loses to mewtwo, cloud, maybe to Rosaluma, and then he loses to megaman. He loses mostly to characters that have a decent projectile because it shuts down his spindash.

You seem to think spin dash is the only thing he has going for him. PLEASE, look at KEN than reconsider your answer.

 

[West End]

Sorry if my answers are comeing off that way. However, sonics spindash is one of his best tools overall. It is just something that needs to be considered when looking at his matchup. He also loses heavily to characters that can easily come out of his combos, such as the pumbers or rosaluma. I feel like spindash does need to be considered when deciding on his matchups.

 

[Nicht dein freund]

I don't have much sonic experience- I just came here to see how to beat him.
With that out of the way, how do I deal with his disgustingly amazing specials?

 

[West End]

The best way to deal with his specials are to bait them out. Once sonic is in his spindash, his options are very limited. Once you have him in, he can jump, or use it. Just shield it, and punish accordingly. Unless your opponent is very good, his specials will be fairly predictable. His spring is very nice for recovery, as it launches him straight up. He has invulnerability frames right after the animation starts. After that, let him have it. A spike is usually the best way to take care of him. Remember, spike, not meteror smash. His horizontal recovery is not very goodf, unless your opponent is good at spinshotting. (Spinshotting is an advanced technique in which the sonic uses his couble jump and his side special to shoot him along in the air at the same speed as his dash. Fortunately, he needs a double jump to execute it. Bait out the double jump and let have it. His homing attack is not that great if you bait it. It has quite a bit of ending lag. Just be wary of the fact that it bounces if he hit the ground. Does that about cover it?

 

[Nicht dein freund]

The best way to deal with his specials are to bait them out. Once sonic is in his spindash, his options are very limited. Once you have him in, he can jump, or use it. Just shield it, and punish accordingly. Unless your opponent is very good, his specials will be fairly predictable. His spring is very nice for recovery, as it launches him straight up. He has invulnerability frames right after the animation starts. After that, let him have it. A spike is usually the best way to take care of him. Remember, spike, not meteror smash. His horizontal recovery is not very goodf, unless your opponent is good at spinshotting. (Spinshotting is an advanced technique in which the sonic uses his couble jump and his side special to shoot him along in the air at the same speed as his dash. Fortunately, he needs a double jump to execute it. Bait out the double jump and let have it. His homing attack is not that great if you bait it. It has quite a bit of ending lag. Just be wary of the fact that it bounces if he hit the ground. Does that about cover it?

Yeah that helps a lot. Thanks!

 

[West End]

On the topic of the Instant spindash jump, does anyone have any tips on how to pull it off? I have watched several guides but I just can't seem to pull it of. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[jaimex2]

On the topic of the Instant spindash jump, does anyone have any tips on how to pull it off? I have watched several guides but I just can't seem to pull it of. Any help would be appreciated.

Make sure you are in running animation.
Press B ... micro delay ... then A

Its a muscle memory thing, just spend a few sessions hammering it in. I usually raise my thumb up moving from B to A to get the right delay timing.

Then move on to reversing it, press the opposite direction just before pressing B.

 

[West End]

thanks! that should be helpfull.

 

[jaimex2]

Anyone got tips on being more consistent with:

Up throw to Bair so its a true combo more reliably?
Perfect pivot spin dashing?

Muscle memorising these in at the moment, just don't want to find out later there's a better motion sequence.

 

[Damandatwin]

up throw back air:

some characters it doesn't work against. for one that it does (i tested with diddy) there's 2 strategies: full hop back air or short hop, immediate DJ back air. both can give a true combo but doing full hop is easier and slightly faster (therefore more likely to be guaranteed in practice).

in terms of how to make the inputs, i use tap jump for the full hop and c stick for the back air. the tap jump part isn't super important but i think the c-stick is since it means you don't have to waste time moving the control stick in position for the back air. and you aren't realistically going to hit x/y and then c-stick in time (at least not comfortably) so you're better off doing tap jump or L/R/Z jump if you use one of those.

if you don't have tap/L/R/Z jump then just full hop with a slight drift in front of you and then back air with the control stick + A.

you have to react to DI no matter which method you use but it's not hard, up throw is pretty slow. i know it's possible because i do it all the time for both upthrow bair and upthrow nair.

i don't know for sure that this is the optimal way of doing things since i haven't talked about technical stuff with other sonic mains in a long time but this is how i figured out to do it.

 

[Camalange]

Anyone got tips on being more consistent with:

Up throw to Bair so its a true combo more reliably?
Perfect pivot spin dashing?

Muscle memorising these in at the moment, just don't want to find out later there's a better motion sequence.

Perfect pivot Spin Dash...?

 

[Damandatwin]

yeah i didn't comment on that in my first post there but i don't see much point in doing that even for microspacing because you can spindash immediately out of your dash... or am i missing something?

 

[jaimex2]

Perfect pivot Spin Dash...?

I don't know its name sorry. I'll see if I can dig up an example...

https://youtu.be/KG372LVftF4?t=33s

The sliding back on the spin dash.

Regarding the up throw -> bair I was trying to make training mode recognise it as true consistently. The window is super strict, got there in the end just had to spend time on it to muscle memory it in. The trick is to make sure you buffer bair... because the game only buffers one move you have to make sure uthrow's animation is done, then jump with a buffered bair. Not sure if that makes snese.

uthrow -> ( wait the animation out) -> jump with buffered bair.

 

[Damandatwin]

that's a wavebounce. execution is pretty much the same as:

so watch that. the difference is it's a bit easier with sonic since you use side b instead of neutral b so you don't have to let go of control stick. for controls i set L to special (this is why I use tap jump instead of L jump) and, while running, do L -> c-stick back -> shield like they say in the video (actually he says to do special and c-stick back at the same time but i prefer doing special first, it's just more consistent in my experience). also sheik can cancel needles into neutral stance but we have to shield.

 

[jaimex2]

that's a wavebounce. execution is pretty much the same as:

so watch that. the difference is it's a bit easier with sonic since you use side b instead of neutral b so you don't have to let go of control stick. for controls i set L to special (this is why I use tap jump instead of L jump) and, while running, do L -> c-stick back -> shield like they say in the video (actually he says to do special and c-stick back at the same time but i prefer doing special first, it's just more consistent in my experience). also sheik can cancel needles into neutral stance but we have to shield.

I feel really dumb now. I was actually doing pp inputs while starting running spin dash which is... ********.
Thanks!

 

[Camalange]

I don't know its name sorry. I'll see if I can dig up an example...

https://youtu.be/KG372LVftF4?t=33s

The sliding back on the spin dash.

Regarding the up throw -> bair I was trying to make training mode recognise it as true consistently. The window is super strict, got there in the end just had to spend time on it to muscle memory it in. The trick is to make sure you buffer bair... because the game only buffers one move you have to make sure uthrow's animation is done, then jump with a buffered bair. Not sure if that makes snese.

uthrow -> ( wait the animation out) -> jump with buffered bair.

Spoiler alert, but 6 and I have something in the works regarding this...

that's a wavebounce. execution is pretty much the same as:

so watch that. the difference is it's a bit easier with sonic since you use side b instead of neutral b so you don't have to let go of control stick. for controls i set L to special (this is why I use tap jump instead of L jump) and, while running, do L -> c-stick back -> shield like they say in the video (actually he says to do special and c-stick back at the same time but i prefer doing special first, it's just more consistent in my experience). also sheik can cancel needles into neutral stance but we have to shield.

Thank you for clarifying.

 

[Omastar]

Picking up Sonic (You guys are probably used to this lol) and I have a few questions if you guys don't mind answering.

• I have watched Camalange's video on spinshot and I am still inconsistent with the A button. Is it easier with a tilt stick or is it a lack of practice?
• A lot of Sonic mains including Wrath, Ken, etc believe Sonic has no losing match ups, what are your opinions on this? (Next questions links)
• If there are any characters Sonic has trouble with, who are they and what techniques can I use to make it manageable?
• What are some movement techs we can implement in neutral to make us less predictable?
• Do you guys prefer more space or platforms to help mixup approach options and avoid projectiles?

(I don't want to offend anyone, but I prefer players with tournament experience answer the questions as they tend to have better insight and more overall knowledge and experience when it comes to tournament play. I am seriously trying to learn the character, so i'm sorry if I seem overbearing. Thank you so much everyone!)

 

[ぱみゅ]

You can also Spinshot by using a Grab button (that's how I was able to do it consistently), but a lot of people say it's easier with Tilt Stick.

A lot of top players lack more perspective, they probably only see how difficult Sonic is to catch once he gets a lead, but they do not consider how much he may struggle to gain it in the first place.

IMO, some of his toughest matchups are Mega Man, Rosalina, Cloud and Corrin.

And I don't have an opinion on Stages.

 

[jaimex2]

Picking up Sonic (You guys are probably used to this lol) and I have a few questions if you guys don't mind answering.

• I have watched Camalange's video on spinshot and I am still inconsistent with the A button. Is it easier with a tilt stick or is it a lack of practice?
• A lot of Sonic mains including Wrath, Ken, etc believe Sonic has no losing match ups, what are your opinions on this? (Next questions links)
• If there are any characters Sonic has trouble with, who are they and what techniques can I use to make it manageable?
• What are some movement techs we can implement in neutral to make us less predictable?
• Do you guys prefer more space or platforms to help mixup approach options and avoid projectiles?

- I personally am used to tilt stick but whatever works for you. In the end its whatever you grind away into muscle memory. After using Corrin as a secondary I've been using A more as it's the same inputs as insta-pin.

- It's irrelevant... Sonic can beat any character, it all comes down to how well you can download your human opponent along with how good your match-up knowledge is.

- Cloud, RosaLuma and Corrin have easier times punishing and cornering us. Be mindful of not putting yourself in bad scenarios and be more patient as these characters all make you eat a ton of damage when they do punish.

- You could write a book on this... If you find yourself getting read, start reading yourself. "What are my impulses pushing me to do next?" then do anything but that.

- Neither... As an in and out playstyle character the more space the better but platforms = bair fest and uthrow >upair early kills.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Spinshot is stupid easy to do.

 

[Omastar]

Spinshot is stupid easy to do.

You are right it is stupid easy to do on a gc controller. A little harder when a 3DS is your only means of practicing and you got big hands.

 

[Tycoo8]

Does anybody think it's possible to B-reverse homing attack? I heard in Brawl it's possible if you quickly and slightly tilt the analog rather than flicking it.

 

[SolCalibre]

I think after a while of smashing, I should actually study this and get some things down.

Spinshot is stupid easy to do.

Something i've not actually tried often yet vs someone who's probably done it for ages. I'll let you know later if I agree with you.

 

[Camalange]

Picking up Sonic (You guys are probably used to this lol) and I have a few questions if you guys don't mind answering.

• I have watched Camalange's video on spinshot and I am still inconsistent with the A button. Is it easier with a tilt stick or is it a lack of practice?
• A lot of Sonic mains including Wrath, Ken, etc believe Sonic has no losing match ups, what are your opinions on this? (Next questions links)
• If there are any characters Sonic has trouble with, who are they and what techniques can I use to make it manageable?
• What are some movement techs we can implement in neutral to make us less predictable?
• Do you guys prefer more space or platforms to help mixup approach options and avoid projectiles?

(I don't want to offend anyone, but I prefer players with tournament experience answer the questions as they tend to have better insight and more overall knowledge and experience when it comes to tournament play. I am seriously trying to learn the character, so i'm sorry if I seem overbearing. Thank you so much everyone!)

1) Thanks for watching. As I say in the video, I personally really think the tilt stick is the easiest way, but it varies player to player. As long as you find a button that's comfortable for you to time a jump, that's all you're doing. It's one of Sonic's easier techniques.
2) Sonic has losing match-ups. He just has a lot of neutral match-ups.
3) Hardest match-ups are debatably Mega Man, Rosa, Fox, Cloud, Corrin, Sheik, ZSS... No one really seems to agree but most will at least agree to Mega Man, Rosa, and ZSS. Lately I've seen more people saying Fox too.
4) Spin Dash trix
5) I personally like platforms. Feels more dynamic.

Spinshot is stupid easy to do.

Funny coming from you~

Does anybody think it's possible to B-reverse homing attack? I heard in Brawl it's possible if you quickly and slightly tilt the analog rather than flicking it.

You can but it doesn't really accomplish anything.

 

[MERPIS]

What are some early percent combos out of uthrow?
how can I fight cloud optimally?
what is the best way to play sonic and how can I play him this way?
What are some earlyish kill confirms or 50/50s?
What is the optimat way to get shorter characters off of you/outrange them?
What is the best/easiest way to use this spinshot thing and what are its applications?

 

[jaimex2]

What are some early percent combos out of uthrow? Bair > Nair. Works on med weights+
how can I fight cloud optimally? Avoid ending up above him at all costs. Try and throw him off and observe how he recovers, try and gimp accordingly.
what is the best way to play sonic and how can I play him this way? Bait and punish, do things that look punishable but dont commit to them. Don't stop moving around and do it unpredictably. Don't spam spins.
What are some earlyish kill confirms or 50/50s?
Spin dash jump carry oponent out when they are on the sides > fair.
Sour nair to bair on a getup
Smash attack the ledge for a 2 frame kill.
What is the optimat way to get shorter characters off of you/outrange them? Spring out
What is the best/easiest way to use this spinshot thing and what are its applications? tilt stick. Used mainly to get out of bad situations.

 

[Tycoo8]

Okay guys, can somebody explain, WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED HERE!?:

https://youtu.be/T-SdN56-lG4

 

[MERPIS]

Okay guys, can somebody explain, WHAT THE HECK HAPPENED HERE!?:

we can't see it...

 

[Tycoo8]

we can't see it...

I edited my post and got the video up. My bad

 

[ぱみゅ]

If you get (Phantom) Footstooled during your Spring Jump, you recover your Spring and are able to do it again.

 

[Ax^2]

What are some early percent combos out of uthrow?
how can I fight cloud optimally?
what is the best way to play sonic and how can I play him this way?
What are some earlyish kill confirms or 50/50s?
What is the optimat way to get shorter characters off of you/outrange them?
What is the best/easiest way to use this spinshot thing and what are its applications?

Best way to fight Cloud is by playing just out of reach of his dash attack and bait/pressure him there. A key part of this MU is staying grounded and knowing what you can punish. Cloud's dair leaves his sides exposed so you can bair him out of it. If you are getting juggled your best bet is to retreat to the ledge and reset neutral from there as a good cloud wont let you touch the ground for as long as possible. Your main goal vs Cloud is to edgeguard him as effectively as possible since that's where he's vulnerable. Spring is not as effective for edgeguarding so you want to pressure him by either forcing an airdodge and punishing that, making him waste his double jump, bait an aerial, or a combination of these.

Best way to play sonic is Bait and Punish as that is what his moveset promotes and that is what is most effective. His movement is amazing at creating pressure and baiting out reactions while simultaneously allowing him to quickly be able to punish hard. Spindash shield cancelling is a great example of this as it forces the opponent to shield, which you can then punish by grabbing. Sonic has many more baits but mainly its his ground mobility, his run to be specific. Once one understands how to use it, sonic can be incredibly aggrivating to fight.

Early-ish kill setups? I assume you mean sub 100%. If so sonic has Spinstool Dair which works on specific characters. You spindash, footstool them, then immediately dair spike them. This is a true combo and will kill as low as 50% depending on the character and stage. Another setup is spindash > upair > spring > upair/dair. After the spring the only thing the opponent will be able to do airdodge or take the hit. If you think they'll airdodge the upair then you can dair them and they die off the top. This usually works from 70% - 120% depending on character. If you are on smashville or town and city, you can use the platform as an assist to confirm the spindash upair > spring > upair combo. After the first upair you want to fast fall on a platform to auto cancel it then immediately spring. Its true at the same %s mentioned earlier. On Battlefield and Dreamland, uthrow spring upair can kill the opponent around 70% on the top platform and even 30% - 50% on DL. It's a true kill confirm.

Best way to hit short characters? Most of sonic's moves hit pretty low. Dtilt, ftilt angled down, all spins, grab (unless they crouch), sh buffered upair (unless they crouch).

Best way to use/perform spinshot? There are only two variants, one with spindash and the other with spincharge. Spincharge spinshot is easier as all you need to do it is perform and aerial SC and flick the c stick in any direction (assuming you set it to attack) however you can only do it in the air and the direction you are facing. Spindash spinshot is more useful as you can b reverse the move and can do it both on the ground and in the air, however it's slower than the SC variant. To do this ver you need to SD then release b and tap a quickly/flick the c stick. The timing is pretty strict though. Tapping a too early will make you jump vertically, tapping a either too early while charging SD or too late you dont get much horizontal distance (yes you cant get the max distance if you dont charge the spin for a bit).

 

[MERPIS]

Best way to fight Cloud is by playing just out of reach of his dash attack and bait/pressure him there. A key part of this MU is staying grounded and knowing what you can punish. Cloud's dair leaves his sides exposed so you can bair him out of it. If you are getting juggled your best bet is to retreat to the ledge and reset neutral from there as a good cloud wont let you touch the ground for as long as possible. Your main goal vs Cloud is to edgeguard him as effectively as possible since that's where he's vulnerable. Spring is not as effective for edgeguarding so you want to pressure him by either forcing an airdodge and punishing that, making him waste his double jump, bait an aerial, or a combination of these.

Best way to play sonic is Bait and Punish as that is what his moveset promotes and that is what is most effective. His movement is amazing at creating pressure and baiting out reactions while simultaneously allowing him to quickly be able to punish hard. Spindash shield cancelling is a great example of this as it forces the opponent to shield, which you can then punish by grabbing. Sonic has many more baits but mainly its his ground mobility, his run to be specific. Once one understands how to use it, sonic can be incredibly aggrivating to fight.

Early-ish kill setups? I assume you mean sub 100%. If so sonic has Spinstool Dair which works on specific characters. You spindash, footstool them, then immediately dair spike them. This is a true combo and will kill as low as 50% depending on the character and stage. Another setup is spindash > upair > spring > upair/dair. After the spring the only thing the opponent will be able to do airdodge or take the hit. If you think they'll airdodge the upair then you can dair them and they die off the top. This usually works from 70% - 120% depending on character. If you are on smashville or town and city, you can use the platform as an assist to confirm the spindash upair > spring > upair combo. After the first upair you want to fast fall on a platform to auto cancel it then immediately spring. Its true at the same %s mentioned earlier. On Battlefield and Dreamland, uthrow spring upair can kill the opponent around 70% on the top platform and even 30% - 50% on DL. It's a true kill confirm.

Best way to hit short characters? Most of sonic's moves hit pretty low. Dtilt, ftilt angled down, all spins, grab (unless they crouch), sh buffered upair (unless they crouch).

Best way to use/perform spinshot? There are only two variants, one with spindash and the other with spincharge. Spincharge spinshot is easier as all you need to do it is perform and aerial SC and flick the c stick in any direction (assuming you set it to attack) however you can only do it in the air and the direction you are facing. Spindash spinshot is more useful as you can b reverse the move and can do it both on the ground and in the air, however it's slower than the SC variant. To do this ver you need to SD then release b and tap a quickly/flick the c stick. The timing is pretty strict though. Tapping a too early will make you jump vertically, tapping a either too early while charging SD or too late you dont get much horizontal distance (yes you cant get the max distance if you dont charge the spin for a bit).

Wow jeez...This is really detailed, thanks. It helps a lot with my sonic.

 

[Camalange]

If you get (Phantom) Footstooled during your Spring Jump, you recover your Spring and are able to do it again.

I desperately need to make a guide on this so people stop asking.

 

[Ax^2]

I desperately need to make a guide on this so people stop asking.

I was wondering... what other things give back Sonic's spring? I know cape does but is that the only other thing though?