Guide Sonic GUIDE/FAQ: ASK QUESTIONS HERE

[Chaos Mk.VII]

How do I spinshot if I have bidou settings?

Same as you normally would with a button, but you can't use the easier c-stick method. Makes it a little more difficult but i think one can get used to it. Idk if sonic really benefits that much from Bidou in the first place tho, unless of course he has some crazy undiscovered Spindash AT with bidou lol

 

[Camalange]

Would you say aggressive sonic is the best way to play sonic?

It's highly match-up and player dependent.

 

[RudyTutti]

Does anyone know the status of the Spring Ride percents? Just wanted to know exactly when I can cheese-- I mean use this technique on my opponent!

 

[Chaos Mk.VII]

Does anyone know the status of the Spring Ride percents? Just wanted to know exactly when I can cheese-- I mean use this technique on my opponent!

Is spring ride when you use the spring right underneath the opponent to take them up with you? Because if so i think it has set knockback since it's really a bounce effect so it can work anytime

 

[RudyTutti]

Is spring ride when you use the spring right underneath the opponent to take them up with you? Because if so i think it has set knockback since it's really a bounce effect so it can work anytime

I was referring to when it's guaranteed to hit after the up throw. Like I know on Diddy it's guaranteed around 30%-35%

 

[MeteorSpike]

What's the frame data for Sonic's customs?
More specifically, I'm wondering about his alternate UpB's
For instance, what frame does Springing Headbutt come out? (and are the startups for the headbutt and spring separate or do they start simultaneously?)
What about Double Spring?
What frame is the spring hitbox from Double Spring out?
Do either of these two alternate UpB's have any intangibility like Sonic's default UpB?
I tried reading a pastebin data dump, but couldn't understand it
Also, what's causing Springing Headbutt to have inconsistent travel distance?
Looking around, I've seen people say that if it's activated while an opponent is immediately next to you, then it'll gain less vertical height
I've tried doing this with both the sandbag and a dummy in training, but it doesn't seem to be affected at all, so I can't see what people are talking about

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Who would be a good Sonic to watch for learning more about the Diddy and Zero Suit Samus MUs?

 

[Camalange]

Spring Ride is dead.

 

[Chaos Mk.VII]

Would the second hit of autocancelled up air be safe on shield? I'd like to know if its a valid approach mixup despite rest-like range

 

[|RK|]

How do you use homing attack? I just learned that it can be cancelled, and so I'm wondering A) how, and B) what else can be done with it?

 

[jaimex2]

How do you use homing attack? I just learned that it can be cancelled, and so I'm wondering A) how, and B) what else can be done with it?

It cant be cancelled.

Other uses include suicide and gift wrapped punishes for your opponent.

pre-patch it could also be used to lock onto Pikmin flying off a cliff so you could follow them to your death.

 

[iKno Jopro]

So a few weeks ago I asked what the most important Sonic AT's were, and I was told to learn to Spinshot first, because it's the most important tech. Now that I have that down, what are some new things for me to learn?

 

[Chaos Mk.VII]

It cant be cancelled.

Other uses include suicide and gift wrapped punishes for your opponent.

pre-patch it could also be used to lock onto Pikmin flying off a cliff so you could follow them to your death.

Well, I've found it useful as a mix-up after Spindash and for recovery, but yea its really laggy and inaccurate. You really shouldn't use the move that much at all

 

[CHICO 93]

Soo how do you guys safely come back down from a missed and or block spin dash attempt? Whats ussally the best method ? If there even is one lol

 

[Camalange]

Would the second hit of autocancelled up air be safe on shield? I'd like to know if its a valid approach mixup despite rest-like range

I mean, it's not technically safe on shield. It's a good mix-up and rather safe, but you can react to it and it can be punished.

How do you use homing attack? I just learned that it can be cancelled, and so I'm wondering A) how, and B) what else can be done with it?

It doesn't get canceled, but you can make the start-up shorter by mashing B. This version does less damage and has less knockback.

So a few weeks ago I asked what the most important Sonic AT's were, and I was told to learn to Spinshot first, because it's the most important tech. Now that I have that down, what are some new things for me to learn?

Instant Spin Dash Jump.

Soo how do you guys safely come back down from a missed and or block spin dash attempt? Whats ussally the best method ? If there even is one lol

Depends on how you hit their shield. There are a lot of mix-ups on shield as well as after.

 

[Ax^2]

Soo how do you guys safely come back down from a missed and or block spin dash attempt? Whats ussally the best method ? If there even is one lol

There are a lot of options but some good ones are

1. Slow spin roll jump (dont know the name of it lol). This is basically when you hit a shield with the spin charge, let it slow down, and then jump. If you do it right then you should do a verical spin jump. This is good because you can act out of it like normal and is usually difficult to punish.

2. Nothing..... If you charge the spin charge/dash a little bit before hitting a shield you can stop in front or behind them (3 charges gets you to stop behind the opponent). You can use this as a mixup to get a free grab if you're opponent doesnt read it.

3. Spring/homing attack. The spring certainly is a way to get you far away from your opponent but they can punish your landing which isnt the best option since you lose stage control. Using HA is situational too, it isnt used for escaping but more for shield pressure especially when combined with slow spin jump. The way you DI your landing can throw them off too.

4. Jump backwards or spin back at them. If you miss, jumping backwards can put you in a good spot if the opponent was trying to bair you oos or something like that. Spining back at them can get you another shot at the hit also if unexpected.

That's all the options i could think about in my head lol. If mixed up well, these are all real good imo.

 

[Labernash]

Is Sonic in doubles worth it? If so, what's a good general game plan for the character?

 

[flamingolungs]

I was messing about in training mode, and forgive me if this is the wrong place or this has been talked about elsewhere as I've never used smashboards before, but
falling upair into an upsmash feels like a KO confirm? i'm not sure if it's random or the only way to guarantee it is to position yourself perfectly (EDIT: i just spent 20 minutes doing it and i don't think it's random at all, you have to be very precise with the hitbox)

basically you have to fall on your opponent, upair right before you hit the ground so that ONLY the FIRST hit comes out, and afterwards you can upsmash immediately and it kills at certain percents
i can't really test this out with a human player at the moment, so i'm going off the AIs DI. sometimes (a lot of times) it would DI away after the uair. but I found it was more consistent if I aimed my falling upair at my opponent as if i was trying to land INTO them. connecting the upsmash was a breeze after that.
some characters, even when the AI was set to Control (so no DI) fall out of the upsmash, like bowser.

anyway, the percents i tested were Mario at 114%, Rosalina at 100%, and Bowser at 130%

if anyone can test this with a human player before I get to, please let me know what you find

(EDIT 2) after getting hit by the upair, they can airdodge, so i feel really dumb now but i just feel like this first hit of upair has to be useful for something because it seems to do the same knockback no matter what percent the opponent is at

 

[|RK|]

Thanks for the answers! New question - how soon can Sonic jump once he's released either spindash post-charging?

 

[jaimex2]

Thanks for the answers! New question - how soon can Sonic jump once he's released either spindash post-charging?

Any time really. There's a few frame during the spin dash hop when it wont let you but other than that pretty much at any point.

Switching direction while rolling also screws a few things up. Hitbox disappears and you cant jump for a few frames.

 

[Chaos Mk.VII]

I was messing about in training mode, and forgive me if this is the wrong place or this has been talked about elsewhere as I've never used smashboards before, but
falling upair into an upsmash feels like a KO confirm? i'm not sure if it's random or the only way to guarantee it is to position yourself perfectly (EDIT: i just spent 20 minutes doing it and i don't think it's random at all, you have to be very precise with the hitbox)

basically you have to fall on your opponent, upair right before you hit the ground so that ONLY the FIRST hit comes out, and afterwards you can upsmash immediately and it kills at certain percents
i can't really test this out with a human player at the moment, so i'm going off the AIs DI. sometimes (a lot of times) it would DI away after the uair. but I found it was more consistent if I aimed my falling upair at my opponent as if i was trying to land INTO them. connecting the upsmash was a breeze after that.
some characters, even when the AI was set to Control (so no DI) fall out of the upsmash, like bowser.

anyway, the percents i tested were Mario at 114%, Rosalina at 100%, and Bowser at 130%

if anyone can test this with a human player before I get to, please let me know what you find

(EDIT 2) after getting hit by the upair, they can airdodge, so i feel really dumb now but i just feel like this first hit of upair has to be useful for something because it seems to do the same knockback no matter what percent the opponent is at

Well, it sounds like you can read the airdodge and charge the up-smash for a bit, so there's that.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

What makes Sonic players fear Ike? I've seen from both sides that Ike beats Sonic 55-45, but what particularly about the matchup makes Sonic players dislike it?

I feel Sonic can easily get in through Ike's attempts to space him out with retreating Nairs and Fairs. He's also hard to punish (FSmash, Bair both being safe on shield), and his grab game is ridiculous.

Also, what direction should you be DIing if Sonic Uthrows you?

 

[Ax^2]

What makes Sonic players fear Ike? I've seen from both sides that Ike beats Sonic 55-45, but what particularly about the matchup makes Sonic players dislike it?

I feel Sonic can easily get in through Ike's attempts to space him out with retreating Nairs and Fairs. He's also hard to punish (FSmash, Bair both being safe on shield), and his grab game is ridiculous.

Also, what direction should you be DIing if Sonic Uthrows you?

Ike is scary because of his true combos, damage output and knockback, and most of all range. Its pretty difficult to get in and kill any good ike because he's real heavy and gets a lot out of rage.

As to which direction you should DI uthrow, at low percents it really doesnt matter because you're gonna get hit. At mid percents you wanna DI in front of sonic since all he can do then is spring > fair, which is better than uair (no DI and can kill depending on character and stage positioning), and bair (DI behind). There isnt anyway to avoid a follow up from just DIing, just gotta throw the hedgehog off. Although sonce bair has some startup, you may be able to DI behind him and might be able to air dodge but i would't risk it.

 

[Green Zelda]

Hiya! What are some uses for the spin shot tech?

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Ike is scary because of his true combos, damage output and knockback, and most of all range. Its pretty difficult to get in and kill any good ike because he's real heavy and gets a lot out of rage.

As to which direction you should DI uthrow, at low percents it really doesnt matter because you're gonna get hit. At mid percents you wanna DI in front of sonic since all he can do then is spring > fair, which is better than uair (no DI and can kill depending on character and stage positioning), and bair (DI behind). There isnt anyway to avoid a follow up from just DIing, just gotta throw the hedgehog off. Although sonce bair has some startup, you may be able to DI behind him and might be able to air dodge but i would't risk it.

Sonic seems to have little trouble getting in for free hits, though.

So just DI away at all times?

 

[Ax^2]

Hiya! What are some uses for the spin shot tech?

Mainly used to enhance horizontal recovery and as a movement mixup tool.

Sonic seems to have little trouble getting in for free hits, though.

So just DI away at all times?

Yes.

 

[Redbane]

I was messing about in training mode, and forgive me if this is the wrong place or this has been talked about elsewhere as I've never used smashboards before, but
falling upair into an upsmash feels like a KO confirm? i'm not sure if it's random or the only way to guarantee it is to position yourself perfectly (EDIT: i just spent 20 minutes doing it and i don't think it's random at all, you have to be very precise with the hitbox)

basically you have to fall on your opponent, upair right before you hit the ground so that ONLY the FIRST hit comes out, and afterwards you can upsmash immediately and it kills at certain percents
i can't really test this out with a human player at the moment, so i'm going off the AIs DI. sometimes (a lot of times) it would DI away after the uair. but I found it was more consistent if I aimed my falling upair at my opponent as if i was trying to land INTO them. connecting the upsmash was a breeze after that.
some characters, even when the AI was set to Control (so no DI) fall out of the upsmash, like bowser.

anyway, the percents i tested were Mario at 114%, Rosalina at 100%, and Bowser at 130%

if anyone can test this with a human player before I get to, please let me know what you find

(EDIT 2) after getting hit by the upair, they can airdodge, so i feel really dumb now but i just feel like this first hit of upair has to be useful for something because it seems to do the same knockback no matter what percent the opponent is at

You beat me to it I was just going to see if anyone knew if sonic could do anything out of the set knockback of the first hit of up air

 

[Ax^2]

You beat me to it I was just going to see if anyone knew if sonic could do anything out of the set knockback of the first hit of up air

Sonic can follow up with anything as long as it's quick. You can use it as a kill confirm if you know how to abuse the knockback angle at high percents by following up with a bair.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

So what about spacing out Sonic with Ike? He doesn't seem to fear retreating Nairs by any means, and prefers using those to get in.

Also, are any of his aerials punishable on shield?

 

[NonJohns]

I personally think the first hit of up air isn't worth labbing because it's a bit of a pain to hit
From what I've seen, most followups are consistent 50/50s that can trip people up the first few times
Now that I think about it, can rage increase the knockback/hitstun enough to make some followups true?

 

[Redbane]

I was just labbing it I'm going to post videos of what I found since the first hit of up air knockbacks the opponent at a perfect angle to x3 up air and kill at 50. Also you can footstool from it that may lead into combos. This may have potential if it wasn't kinda hard to hit and you have to be pretty close to the opponent.

 

[Sytal]

I can't find any info on this anywhere around here and I could be missing it, but here's a quick question:

When Jump Attacking out of a grounded spin charge with tap jump set to off, tap jump becomes active for the duration of the jump attack.
Is this a feature that can be negated somehow? I like not accidentally using my second jump when Uair-ing or something of the like out of a Jump Attack.

 

[ぱみゅ]

I can't find any info on this anywhere around here and I could be missing it, but here's a quick question:

When Jump Attacking out of a grounded spin charge with tap jump set to off, tap jump becomes active for the duration of the jump attack.
Is this a feature that can be negated somehow? I like not accidentally using my second jump when Uair-ing or something of the like out of a Jump Attack.

Why wouldn't you just use the right stick in that Scenario?

 

[Sytal]

Why wouldn't you just use the right stick in that Scenario?

That's a good point, and I'm not always on the ball with c-stick usage.
However, tapping up on the left stick for any reason at anytime during the Jump Attack causes me to jump, and I'd prefer that to not be the case.
I'm going to take it that you answer implies that there isn't a fix?
If that's the case I can work with it, it just catches me off guard sometimes.

 

[jaimex2]

I'm going to take it that you answer implies that there isn't a fix?
If that's the case I can work with it, it just catches me off guard sometimes.

There isnt, either C-stick or when you Spin Dash keep holding left or right on release and then roll the stick to up.

I try not to use C-stick for aerials because when its set to attack it has the habit of inputing neutral air instead.

 

[Sytal]

I try not to use C-stick for aerials because when its set to attack it has the habit of inputing neutral air instead.

More often than not, this is why I have trust issues with the C-stick.

There isnt, either C-stick or when you Spin Dash keep holding left or right on release and then roll the stick to up.

I'm going to test the hold and roll to see how well its works.
Thanks for the input!

 

[Camalange]

Ike's Bair is really good OoS against Sonic's spins. Also, just sword range in general can be scary. If Sonic gets in on Ike, you can go full aggro though and pretty much ruin him. If Ike gets a grab or momentum, he can put Sonic in bad situations and kill pretty easily. Bair is definitely the move I'm most afraid of in this match-up. Gimping Ike is surprisingly a little harder than you'd expect.

It's a pretty even match-up. Not sure if I really believe it's in Ike's favor.

I play Waldo often and we go back and forth.

 

[divade]

Hey, I'm sonic-curious and I was wondering if this is a known thing :
During a run towards an opponent, you can Spindash backwards and shield slide to get behind an opponent to grab.
I've been doing this on "hold l for 1/2 speed" but I haven't gotten a feel for the timing.

 

[Camalange]

Hey, I'm sonic-curious and I was wondering if this is a known thing :
During a run towards an opponent, you can Spindash backwards and shield slide to get behind an opponent to grab.
I've been doing this on "hold l for 1/2 speed" but I haven't gotten a feel for the timing.

Yep.

Sonic-curious sounds like an orientation.

 

[ぱみゅ]

A very fast-paced one.

Is there any advantage of doing that instead of a Pivot Grab other than the mixup value?