Sonic - Brawl+: a community synopsis project.

[Boxob]

Sonic tier position in Brawl plus is without a doubt different than normal Brawl. To start I'd like to state that Brawl plus at its best is played with L cancel, No Tripping, Hitstun and that's it.

Don't ***** or talk about wavedash, I don't give a **** if you can go forwards, than not forwards, and then forwards again. Wavedash code is imperfect, it slows the game down, it's awkward, and it sucks. Don't say you can do all this and that with wavedash, because you can't.

With that out of the way, let's address a topic of discussion, for my over all goal of this thread is to have a complete, knowledge based synopsis of Sonic the hedgecow.

First topic: Safety of approach - how safe is Sonic going in and making the first move?
Common approaches in regular brawl will be evaluated first:
Dash attack - unchanged.
Bair- Was always viable due to the disjointedness of the hitbox. Now slightly safer, although the lag on this move was already almost negligible.
Spincharge/dash: Unchanged
ASC: Well, it didn't get any safer, but you can do a whole lot more out of this move now if you land it at not-mid-percents.


New viable approaches:
Uair: The first hit of Uair start on Sonic's side, it's now possible to Uair (first hit only) to utilt easier. Also, you can Shffl'd Uair to grab now if they're shielding and they're not fast enough.
Fair: If they don't shield, fastfall it into a grab, if they do, retreat out of grab range, it's pretty sexy.

I encourage anyone with Brawl+ to go ahead an try the above listed, along with anything you can come up with, tell me which you find to work the best, when I feel as if this has been discussed and tested to death, I will post a new topic of discussion/testing.

 

[Tenki]

Can you S-cancel side-B?

lol iono, I don't have Zelda D:

 

[Boxob]

Can you S-cancel side-B?

lol iono, I don't have Zelda D:

S Cancel and L cancel are completely different things.

No one uses S cancel anymore, not unless they're too lazy to get L cancel.

L cancel = half of lag, just like Melee, slightly different timing, but same effect.

S cancel = Cancels into shield, all lag is rid of, think n64smash, but slower because you can't buffer into running animation, just unshield and than run, it sucks.

 

[thecatinthehat]

No tenki.

Box, even if you fair a shielded char you don't have to retreat.

I think FF > spotdodge/grab/roll would be a better option.

 

[Boxob]

No tenki.

Box, even if you fair a shielded char you don't have to retreat.

I think FF > spotdodge/grab/roll would be a better option.

Maybe it is, as stated in the OP, testing is needed to be done to say which exactly is the best/safest option.

I'll trying it next time I get to fight someone.

 

[Camalange]

Wow, I would love to see some vids of Sonic +

It would be way too sexy

 

[thecatinthehat]

I'll try to record the next time I play Brawl+ with Sonic.

 

[Boxob]

I'll try to record the next time I play Brawl+ with Sonic.

We need to arrange to have the same codes on, for Wifi.

Like tonight.

L cancel, hitstun, tripping - 0.

Replays over three minutes.

Do it up?

Tonight?!

 

[thecatinthehat]

Not tonight.

Tired as ****. 2 hours of sleep last night. 5 from the night before.

Tomorrow is a done deal though.

 

[Boxob]

Fineeee.

 

[Tenki]

so ASC has noticeable hitstun for normal Brawl. I bet it's even scarier in Brawl+

In Brawl+, can you shffl aerials and juggle someone off the stage?

 

[thecatinthehat]

I just remembered now that you didn't play melee Tenki. Bizarre.

 

[Boxob]

Meh, juggles, you can't really carry them off stage, the closest I got to this while actually trying to do this was on a lvl 5 cpu link with the first hit of Uair, even then, it doesn't work.

But you can still land like three Uairs if you have them at the right percent.

Like starting at 76ish on Mario? Just throwing numbers/weights out there.

 

[Tenki]

how about N-air?


I know you're against wavedashing and all, but I just remembered you can airdodge out of VSDJ/SDJ.

you could like, chain VSDJ's together with wavedash lol.

 

[Boxob]

I'll test that now, although my prediction will go as followed: Sonic won't be able to get to the second Nair quick enough because you have to jump up to them to get the right knockback with nair, on the opening frames.

 

[Tenki]

eh, you don't have to hit with the first part (?) or does the rest of the N-air have noticeably less hitstun?

 

[Boxob]

how about N-air?


I know you're against wavedashing and all, but I just remembered you can airdodge out of VSDJ/SDJ.

you could like, chain VSDJ's together with wavedash lol.

I'd rather chain two ASC's into a HA. o:

Yeah nair's a no go. Juggling isn't needed though, it's not that big of a deal. You can still juggle, just not to get them offstage.

 

[Boxob]

eh, you don't have to hit with the first part (?) or does the rest of the N-air have noticeably less hitstun?

The way increased hitstun is implemented is very straight forward, the more hitstun the original move had, the greater the increase is.

Think of every move having 1.5 times more hitstun. Weak nair is weak, you can't do anything with it really.

Plus, the trajectory's different on a lingering frame'd nair.

 

[Tenki]

I meant in general lol. Don't have a wii right now so I can't test stuff in normal Brawl :3

 

[Boxob]

Ah, well yeah, hitstun in general is weaker when you hit with a lingering attackbox.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Lolwtf? Another community thread. Just make this board into ****ing communist board.

 

[Napilopez]

Lolwtf? Another community thread. Just make this board into ****ing communist board.

Lololol. This is actually useful though.

I kinda wanna play brawl plus now XD. I didn't play melee competitively before, so I never truly cared about the wavedash, and with the exception of lack of hitstun, I'm fine with brawls game engine. For example, I don't like the idea of increasing gravity so it's similar to melee's because I do think a new game should have a different feel to it. So yea. But L cancel, hitstun, and no tripping(even if I don't really mind it), I'm cool with all of that XD.

Question Boxob, how is MKs hitstun power in Brawl +? Lots of his attacks are multihit, so do they have alot of hitstun or are the generally just average for hitstun? In other words, does he get as big of a boost from the increased hitstun and L cancelling as say, Ganon?

This is kinda random, but what annoys you the most about tripping?

Like, personnally I don't mind tripping like when in close range battle and stuff, because you'r invincible, and most of the time people get hit from trpping is because they dont recover correctly(although CFs trip animation is ridiculously long, and just, ridiculous). So for me if I trip into an Ike Fsmash or whatever, that was really just my fault.

But what reallyyyy annoys me, is when im going for a gimp tech chase or stage spike, and then I trip out of my dash. Thats so much more frustrating imo.

rawr.

 

[darkNES386]

Um... I think Sonic would be even more terrible in Brawl +. When you think about other players like Snake/Ike/Ganon and their massive lag on aerials... there's no way Sonic is going to get any better in comparison to the rest of the cast when it comes to L canceling.

edit: maybe Sonic's fair... maybe

 

[Jim Morrison]

Sonic's D-air?

 

[Chis]

How is this useful?

 

[Jim Morrison]

It's a Boxob thread, good stuff comes out of it.

 

[Chis]

Seriously now...

 

[Jim Morrison]

Why so srs?

 

[Chis]

Because play time is over?

Also pedobear approves of your avatar.

 

[Boxob]

i cant answer questions right now, but i have answers. when i ge home you will get them. but after that, i would like it if all other questions not pertaing to the main topic be asked in another thread. perhaps steak break room, even. im not letting this get off topic.

chis, dont be a dou chf uck. im not getting this closed because of you.
go somewhere else. if this thread isnt useful to you, dont post in it.

 

[Chis]

Haven't you learned the new way of censoring?

 

[Jim Morrison]

Lol how about we report YOU for going off-topic o.O but really, Boxob is right. Anyway, I think D-air with L-cancel ***** too much. It's just like auto-cancelled spring D-air, but then... without a spring.

 

[Chis]

1. I asked a question ABOUT the topic
2. I don't report people for going off topic
3. Stop acting like an idiot at times
4. It's S canceling

 

[Jim Morrison]

No, it's L-cancelling if I call it that.

 

[ShadowLink84]

No, it's L-cancelling if I call it that.

Calling something by the incorrect term means you are wrong.
It is a shield cancel.

if you mean the other code which evokes L cancel then you would be right.
but you don't, which means you're wrong.
And get no steak.

 

[Jim Morrison]

Then of course I meant the other code.

 

[Napilopez]

4. It's S canceling

Chis, the code for L Cancelling has been out for a while now. People only used S cancelling because they hadn't figured out L cancelling yet, lolz. But now they have, and hence we have L cancelling in brawl.

Anyways, Oh snap I didn't even think of L-cancelled Dairs XD. I wish there were like, a reverse L cancel, so you cud kill startup lag instead XD. Bair would be too good. But yea.Fair will now be so much awesomer.

Um... I think Sonic would be even more terrible in Brawl +. When you think about other players like Snake/Ike/Ganon and their massive lag on aerials... there's no way Sonic is going to get any better in comparison to the rest of the cast when it comes to L canceling.

edit: maybe Sonic's fair... maybe

I don't think L cancelling will benefit Sonic as much as Hitstun will. Some of Sonic's moves seemed to already have a significant amount of hitstun in normal brawl, like his spinbased attacks, and now its just all the better I guess. I mean, the wifi combo is now a true combo, even with the Homing attacks huge startup. I'm kinda just imagining Bairs into like, guaranteed grabs... awesome. Or perhaps SHFFLd(omg I can actually include the L in SHFFL now) Fairs into grabs. Even if theyre not guaranteed combo's you're still more likely to do them because your opponent will ultimately have less time to do anything about it anyways.

What about chaining Bthrows against heavy characters? :D =P

 

[MarKO X]

Here's just a sample of what my mind is thinking with Brawl+ and Sonic...

Dtilt > Dtilt > Dtilt > Uair > Uair > Spring > Uair. All at the beginning of the fight.

ASC > ASC > HA, as mentioned in the other thread, would be too good.

How about Uthrow > Spring > Uair that actually... you know... works?

L-cancel will do wonders for a dair, for if it misses, it's still pretty safe, and if it hits, it pops the opponent into the air nicely for a follow up of your choosing.

But this is just my imagination. If you have Brawl+, don't be afraid to play with my probably outrageous ideas.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Question Boxob, how is MKs hitstun power in Brawl +? Lots of his attacks are multihit, so do they have alot of hitstun or are the generally just average for hitstun? In other words, does he get as big of a boost from the increased hitstun and L cancelling as say, Ganon?

This is kinda random, but what annoys you the most about tripping?

Like, personnally I don't mind tripping like when in close range battle and stuff, because you'r invincible, and most of the time people get hit from trpping is because they dont recover correctly(although CFs trip animation is ridiculously long, and just, ridiculous). So for me if I trip into an Ike Fsmash or whatever, that was really just my fault.

But what reallyyyy annoys me, is when im going for a gimp tech chase or stage spike, and then I trip out of my dash. Thats so much more frustrating imo.

rawr.

To answer your first question, MK's hitstun is pretty bad actually. He still outranges you all over the place, but he's not the combo machine that people were fearing.

And the most annoying part about tripping is (IMO), the concept itself, not the actual mechanic. The game is essentially punishing you for doing exactly what you were supposed to do. If I try to dash in and punish MK's foward smash before the starting lag is over, and trip directly into said foward smash, then is it my fault? I couldn't have waited for the smash to end and then punish...because it doesn't have enough ending lag. I couldn't have come down with a bair, because it has too much vertical range. I took the absolute best course of action at that moment....and a random number generator decided that this time (despite doing the same thing many times before) I was going to get killed instead.

That just doesn't sit well with me.

Also, brawl+ is awesome. Comboing into a sweetspotted dair (which you then L-cancel so that you can go edgeguard them) is just sexy.

 

[~TBS~]

darn it. everyone else is experimenting with these new additions...i cant add brawl+ to my wii...