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Sonic: Better with Custom Moves or not?

Sonic Kirby Elric

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In Smash 4, custom moves are introduced. I want to ask people who already own the game to say if he is better with cusomazation moves or not?
 

Kinzer

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One of these days, this sub-forum is going to need an FAQ thread for go-to questions like this...

Until then:

Custom moves being better than defaults/other customs are a matter of opinion. Some people will find more use in using the different variants. These differences aren't inherently "better;" but, may see more frequent use. If your definition of "better" means "more applicable," You'll have to get your hands on the game and see what works best for you the majority of the time.
 
D

Deleted member 245254

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To be honest I find Sonic's customs to be less versatile and effective overall than other characters. A lot of his customs could be easily argued to be "worse" than the default, rendering most of them to be a bit worthless despite their obvious added effect.

So far, in my opinion, my answer would be that Sonic changes very little given custom moves are activated or not.
 

Sonic Kirby Elric

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Ok. So equipment might be the way to boost him up then. Thanks!!
 
D

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I've seen his custom specials. I don't know entirely, but there are two I find would be more useful; his mega-hop one and his spring smash one. (Not actual names; I can't read japanese. I just call them that.) The former makes his hop go twice as high with no obvious drawbacks, and the latter makes you do damage on the way up while using his up special, and while you go the same height, it might not be as good to combo with. It all depends on one's playstyle. They did bring back the bounce attack though for one of his custom homing attack options.
 
D

Deleted member 245254

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I've seen his custom specials. I don't know entirely, but there are two I find would be more useful; his mega-hop one and his spring smash one. (Not actual names; I can't read japanese. I just call them that.) The former makes his hop go twice as high with no obvious drawbacks, and the latter makes you do damage on the way up while using his up special, and while you go the same height, it might not be as good to combo with. It all depends on one's playstyle. They did bring back the bounce attack though for one of his custom homing attack options.
It's not a bounce though, if you do it in to the ground you are basically asking to get punished because of the horrible animation lag on the ground.

Also the mega jump headbutt drawback of not being able to attack out of the animation as early seems pretty damning considering how often we use up b aerial combos.

The purpose of the downward quick is most notably it's spike.
 
D

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Ah. Speaking of, what's the advantages/disadvantages of the other homing attack? The one that's not the stomp attack.
 

Kinzer

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Ah. Speaking of, what's the advantages/disadvantages of the other homing attack? The one that's not the stomp attack.
Doesn't drop you if there's no target to lock on; rather, it boosts you up ever so slightly. Start-up is significantly faster, and it seems like the travel time to the target is less than the regular HA; but, that might just be a deceptive perception of the faster start-up time.
 
D

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Okay. Does it have something like decreased range to balance it out?
 

LEGOfan12

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One of these days, this sub-forum is going to need an FAQ thread for go-to questions like this...

Until then:

Custom moves being better than defaults/other customs are a matter of opinion. Some people will find more use in using the different variants. These differences aren't inherently "better;" but, may see more frequent use. If your definition of "better" means "more applicable," You'll have to get your hands on the game and see what works best for you the majority of the time.
^This.
 

Tomo009

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So what sets are people toying with?

I think I'm going to run 1123 but I'm not really sure about the last 2 even.

I like the double spring, I wouldn't say it gives MORE combos, just different ones, I'm not sure whether it is really worth it, though I do find it slightly more versatile especially at lower %.

The headbutt one might be ok but I was struggling to combo with it, so didn't bother taking it further.

I don't really understand the gravitational downB yet, I never really charge for the purposes of getting a stronger roll, so the downside on this one feels pretty mild to me. I like charging it backwards on the ledge sometimes, seems good against some character's vertical recovery because it pushes them away.

The automatic charge one... what's the point? Does anyone even know what this does yet?

Homing attack and Spin Dash though... has anyone found any reason to really use any of the alternates? I messed with the faster homing attack, but the recovery on it is just terrible. Combined with its lack of killing power and the fact you can't do the same ledge stuff with it as the default, I find it to be a direct downgrade for everything but recovery... and I'm having absolutely no problems with recovery in this game.

SideB I messed with the fire spin dash, I guess some people might prefer it, but you can't double jump out of it, it really limits the combos you can do out of it. If it only affected sideB I would probably use this because I do like the initial damage it brings, but I can't even use downB for extended combos using this custom, which ruins it for me.
 
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Phoenix_Dark

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I haven't really bothered with customs, as i'm going on the assumption that they won't be around for long. Some characters have some ridiculous customs. Just hoping they're banned, as I don't feel like dealing with a million different matchups.
 

Shoyo James

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yooooooooo Sonic's huge hop side b custom is ridiculous. Switching matches up between his normal side special and that huge hop is incredible. The jump has great hit-boxes, leads into his similar spindash combos, and the bury effect isn't bad as well. It actually plants for a solid amount of time, and it's really hard to punish the attack. Plus, spindashes can be canceled so easily that following up on a grounded opponent is actually possible and can be sometimes lethal.
 

ShbeblyTheGreat

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In all seriousness, only 4/6 of the custom moves are good. Here's what I think of them.
If it's colored Yellow, that means it's a good custom move!


Neutral B:
  • Homing Attack - Best one. Keep it. It's the only good one you'll get out of the Neutral B category.
  • Stomp - This one is.... ok, I suppose. The only use I found with this one was too bop people on the head.
  • Surprise Attack - This one is completely useless. You'll rise 4ft off the ground and shoots like a spitball going 2 MPH trying to land 4% damage.
Side B:
  • Spin Dash - Just the standard one. Overall, it's decent. The only thing I find wrong is the little hop he does after charging it. If you try to land on the stage with it when you're high in the air, the hop will push Sonic back a little and make you miss the ledge. You're also stuck in that animation so you can't recover.
  • Hammar Spin Dash - I completely forgot this was a move. So.... don't use it. It's weak.
  • Burning Spin Dash - Best one. No hop, no push back animation, just a fast/straight shot. Also it leaves a trail of fire! It makes you feel like a badass!
Up B:
  • Spring Jump - Pretty self-explanitory. Just a standard Up B.
  • Double Spring - An alright custom move. It's really good for mind games.
  • Springing Headbutt - A lot of good things from this one. First off, it's instant. While you're pushed into the air, you'll do damage to anyone around you while going up. The best part is that the spring doesn't stay on the ground. That means no other players can jump on it to come up and punish you while you're in 'Special Fall'.
Down B:
  • Spin Charge - Normal Spin Charge. Mash the button and build up speed.
  • Auto-Spin Charge - This one is a little wonkey. You're suppose to hold the button down to automatically charge it, but you have no indication of when it's charged. So you'll either send out a flubbed Spin Charge or a fully charged one. It's like a game of chance.
  • Gravitational Charge - This one's fun. As you charge it up, Sonic will pull in any opponent closer to him and make sure they're wrecked! It needs more button presses, but you'll already be mashing it as fast as you can.
So, add up all the Yellow and see how you do with that. As for stat customization, I don't really mess around with that. You'll just have to mix and match them and see what you get.
 

Bajike

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In all seriousness, I really only think Springing Headbutt is worth it. It's literally the spring except you do damage on the way up. Doesn't leave the spring, but that's hardly a downside. This is coming from a Sonic main, by the way.
 

Tomo009

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It also doesn't go as high unless you hit with the start of it and you can't use aerials until quite a bit later into it.

Basic spring is the best overall in my opinion, with double spring providing a different kind of utility if you really want it.
 

JamesUK7

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I haven't really played with Custom Moves at all so far in Smash 4 but I've seen a couple of players use Sonic's Side B 2 Custom fairly well...
 

ChikoLad

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I really like Hammer Spin Dash. The amazing hop is awesome for aerial approaches and overall combo starting.
 

Camalange

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Out of all of them, Hammer Spin Dash interests me the most. That's about it.

:093:
 

Camalange

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1111 4 LYFE

:093:
 

Thinkaman

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Hammer Spin Dash is probably the single best move in the game on any character.
 

Sonic Orochi

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I'm okay with the Hammer Spin Dash and the neat mechanics it adds to our SDRs. We lost ASCSC but if we use SD2, we can use ASC and then hold back to screech stop when touching the ground.

But I'm fine with ol' regular Spin Dash too.

Just.. no Burning SD. Just.. no.
 

Thinkaman

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Default Spin Dash is already a really great move, so upgrading to Hammer Spin Dash doesn't make as big of a difference as say, upgrading Wizard's Foot to Wizard's Dropkick or Reflect Barrier to Super Speed. It's a nice upgrade, but not *that* big of an upgrade.

HSD also isn't unbeatable. They can still punish Sonic if they read which of the many mixups you are going for.

However, neither of these points make Hammer Spin Dash any less incredible. It's pretty stupid how good it is, and is one of the only things I hope gets any sort of nerf.
 
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Sonic Orochi

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But it does make a big difference: it changes how our SDR acts, be it from the SD or SC.

Also, no more turnaround when using the SD, no more speed added with the charge, no more hop to aerial combos, no more multihit ASC etc, etc..
 

Bighands-Senpai

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You are ruling out his customs too early. Gravitational Charge is vastly superior to his other side b moves. Both Stomp and Hammer are amazing if you play super aggressive from the very beginning. The only customs that I'd argue are kind of useless are his up b ones. Double Spring requires you to be excellent at mind games and the headbutt is always horrendous. It does like 5 damage, has no significant knockback and it reduces your vertical distance.
 
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Sonic Orochi

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Gravitational Charge is down B, though. It seems cool but, meh.. Hopefully it will be better when we are able to consistently Spinshot out of SC (i.e.: C-stick).

Stomp denies HA approaches while on stage, which is kind of vital when facing projectile spammers, plus, the meteor effect it has is weaksauce.

Hammer is cool and up B customs are ****.
 

Shoyo James

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I tried playing incorporating the burning spindash and all it resulted me in punishes and grabs. It's rare for me to ever get grabbed so the hitboxes are funky on that custom.
 

Junglechief

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You people are all crazy, hammer spin dash is incredible. It actually does more damage in a lot of situations than normal side b. In anti air situations or when used deep on your opponent it can't hit anywhere between two to three times and combos into all aerials like normal spin dash. With proper spacing I have had combos that deal as much as 30 percent from multiple hit hammer spin dash to something like fair or Nair. It's jump cancelable at anytime like normal and the big arc means it has more aerial and vertical recovery and mobility options. For lower chases I often use it over jumping and hammer spin dash to double jump to spring is a crazy amount of height fast. I don't see why 1211 isn't used by every sonic. Oh it also grounds, giving true combos into up smash, you know Sonics best onstage kill move. It's a little slower on the arc and easier to see than normal spin dash but just don't be an idiot when you use it and it's his most versatile move.
 
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JPW

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I would of preferred his custom moves being more wisps related. Laser for Neutral, Drill for side, Rocket for up, and spike for down.

I use hammer spin, and spring headbutt though. I enjoy them. I'm kind of disappointed how one of his down specials is same as his spin dash only difference is you hold it down
 

Phoenix_Dark

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I've seen the light. Hammer spin dash is amazing. It's almost like having ASCSC back. You just hold back on the landing of the hop and you instant stop in front of them. Works on the ground or in the air. I assume the actual grounding effect from the hop will keep this as a solid mixup. As for down b, I really want to mess with the gravitational charge, but if it ends up being poop, auto spin charge seems like an upgrade from the normal. I don't see any downside. Everything else is useless. Why are we all not hyped a lot more for hammer spin dash? Is there some downside I'm not seeing?
 
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Sonic Orochi

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Pros:
  • burying effect;
  • adds a neat property to SDR: you can stop it if you press back during the SDR from SD. For SC, you'll have to hold back before the SDR starts (not as great as ASCSC, but it's close. Plus, it adds more options during a grounded SC);
  • the hop is FAST and you can hit both on the ascent and the descent (in a single hop);
  • makes the ASC silent on release (lol);

Cons:
  • hop angle doesn't help as much with recovery like SD1's does (plus, the fact that you fall faster doesn't help much either);
  • slowest SDR;
  • fastest charge (a.k.a.: smaller window of time to shield cancel it);
  • removes a neat property of ASC: makes it lose its multihit ability;
  • removes all the good stuff you can do with Spin Dash up close (hop to aerial/footstool etc);
  • due to the new SDR property, you can't turnaround a SDR from SD with this move;
  • you can't Spinshot out of a single or double charge Spin Charge with the C-Stick when using this move: you'll need to tap the B button at least twice if you want the SS to happen;
 

Phoenix_Dark

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Also, it's bad on stages with platforms like battlefield and lylat lol. I didn't realize you can't fsj out of it. That sucks. I still think I'm going to mess with it on basic stages like smashville and town and city. I really like the options it adds and it still lets me combo out of it. Plus it may add a guaranteed way to land usmash if you can predict when they break out of the grounded effect.
 

daguyontheladder

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I feel Sonic's up b is too good of a recovery to change, side b is the bread and butter of his flow, and neutral b is help full in those rare occasions that your opponent locks up(charging a smash or otherwise). down b might be the only thing that can be changed, but his down b customs don't do anything worth while.
 

SamuraiPanda

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The double spring up B might be good in some matchups, like against villager. In theory (haven't had time to test it yet), you could potentially pop both of his balloons with it. Plus it helps make your recovery non-linear for people with gimps (or bowling balls).
 

HeavyMetalSonic

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After testing them all out, I honestly can't see much reason to deviate from 1111. Some of them have niche uses, but they take away from his already amazing specials. One or two looked like they have potential, but when trying to put them to use they really disappointed me (I'm looking at you double spring and surprise attack, I think it's called, the fast HA with less range).
 

Camalange

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The double spring up B might be good in some matchups, like against villager. In theory (haven't had time to test it yet), you could potentially pop both of his balloons with it.
We've theorycrafted this so many times... lmao
Plus it helps make your recovery non-linear for people with gimps (or bowling balls).
Sonic's spring start-up invincibility actually goes right through bowling balls.

:093:
 
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