Solo Main Viable?

[TTYK]

Is Greninja a solo viable character to enter national tournament with? Please elaborate on your answers fellow greninjas.

 

[Y2Kay]

I've talked about this a while back w/ bc1910 and fullmoon a while back and both said greninja has no true gatekeepers. Looking at his matchup spread, I don't see why not. He somewhat struggles with but that's about it. With enough time w/ the character, I believe there's no matchup you should fear. Our best players can make it work, so i have faith in our amphibious assassin.

 

[Nicklecat]

I want to say yes, but in the end I have to say no. The reason is say this is because while greninja can go even with about anyone outside of top 15, he still has troubles with sheik, fox, sonic, and sometimes pikachu (this is just what I think). I am not saying it is impossible to solo main him, but you would have to know every in and out with these matchups.

 

[Illusion.]

You can get far in a national going just since the two characters he struggles with, but manageable, are and *. is gonna **** up your day, so you won't be winning a national with just .

*Controversial MU, so saying he struggles with this MU is just an opinion at this point.

 

[FullMoon]

I actually still don't think Greninja is solo-viable, though he's really close to it. Sheik is still too much for him to get through, especially with how omnipresent she is.

 

[Y2Kay]

I can't believe the man holding greninja down is another ninja.......

 

[TTYK]

Yeah. I could see sheik getting in our way. Really itching for that next patch

 

[Y2Kay]

Yeah. I could see sheik getting in our way. Really itching for that next patch

Completely forgot! Maybe this is the time for greninja to shine?

 

[Steve.Stone]

I honestly only have trouble with Sonic, I think fighting Sheik and Fox is a fun challenge. But whenever I see Sonic I'm just like 'ughhhhhhhhh.' I usually try to go Captain Falcon or Shulk against Sonic because Falcon can match his speed, and Shulk has really big hitboxes he can run into. (Also there's a new patch coming?)

 

[TTYK]

I honestly only have trouble with Sonic, I think fighting Sheik and Fox is a fun challenge. But whenever I see Sonic I'm just like 'ughhhhhhhhh.' I usually try to go Captain Falcon or Shulk against Sonic because Falcon can match his speed, and Shulk has really big hitboxes he can run into. (Also there's a new patch coming?)

Well we assume there is. It is long overdo with the every two months get a patch thing that sakurai does. He probably was waiting to release it until the big announcement with cloud and possibly others being released. Lets be honest here...
The best present sakurai could give us is nerf sheik to fcking oblivion.

 

[Steve.Stone]

Good point, and he said the DLC was coming to a close so I guess now would be the time to patch if he wanted to change anything else.

 

[Fathom778]

Honestly, it depends on if you can fight Rushdown characters well with Greninja or not. When I mean well, I mean WELL

 

[Guimartgon]

is almost solo viable, but yeah, ruins your day. If it's any help, dual maining/ maining and having as a back up character has made my life a lot easier [jokes on Mario being easy plz]. It also helped me avoid a lot of the MUs where you wanna sit back and spam Water Shuriken, for example, I know it's a relatively good MU because of how you can keep him away and throw shurikens for a while, but the Mario-Cpt Falcon is a lot more enjoyable imo. (or maybe I'm just bad, that's up to you)

So yeah, not solo viable imo, but you can very easily patch the few weaknesses he has easily with one character.

 

[Twisted_Jokerr]

Well lets think about this. What would make him solo viable?

What frame data/BKB/Hitboxs/damage output should be adjusted to make him solo viable?

 

[Y2Kay]

Well lets think about this. What would make him solo viable?

What frame data/BKB/Hitboxs/damage output should be adjusted to make him solo viable?

It's less of the character than it is his opponents, particularly Sheik

 

[Twisted_Jokerr]

I see what you mean. Like how Sheik and Fox can all do what greninja can do but with a better neutral. Honestly, Greninja 's Uthrow should get a small buff to make it a kill throw at 150+%. Thats what i have to say.

 

[Blue_Edge]

Honestly, Greninja 's Uthrow should get a small buff to make it a kill throw at 150+%. Thats what i have to say.

it already is a kill throw at 150%

 

[Richard & Blaziken]

In the current version, no, I don't think Greninja is solo-main viable in terms of winning tournaments. Small ones, maybe, but Greninja has bad matchups with high tiers, particularly Sheik and Sonic (though I will maintain that for me as a Greninja main, Dedede is my worst nightmare), and beating them with Greninja is quite difficult when playing good players.

I think small changes could be made to make Greninja solo-viable, both for him and for his adversaries, but as of now, I don't think so, sadly.

 

[o_Pulse_o]

I'm really hoping that this next patch has some sort of buffs for our favorite frog. I miss playing him alot but he just isn't as good as the other high/top tiers.

 

[TheOnlyGBeast]

I am sorry, but there is just simply no way that our character has a shot at placing high in nationals. He has far too many problems, both personally and against other characters.

 

[Otterz]

So... Beast 6 though...

 

[free33]

I am sorry, but there is just simply no way that our character has a shot at placing high in nationals. He has far too many problems, both personally and against other characters.

lol Beast 6. I never doubted the frog for a moment. can we reassess please?

 

[TTYK]

I am sorry, but there is just simply no way that our character has a shot at placing high in nationals. He has far too many problems, both personally and against other characters.

LMAO

 

[bc1910]

I am sorry, but there is just simply no way that our character has a shot at placing high in nationals. He has far too many problems, both personally and against other characters.

This is now a contender for POTY.

 

[yackamajez]

iStudying got 2nd at Beast 6, to me this proves that he is viable as a solo main.

 

[Snackss]

He went through Diddy, Rosalina, Pikachu, and Fox in top 8. Except Greninja still had really no chance against Sheik. That might seem a little unfair since Mr. R is one of the best Sheik players, but Sheik has both some of the best out of shield and is extremely safe on shield. Even if Sheik were to actually get meaningful nerfs for once, I feel that the real problem is her character archetype is too overwhelming when Greninja doesn't even have a competent shield grab. A secondary specifically for Sheik still seems like just as good of an idea as ever. But that Greninja can convincingly beat any of the other top characters at least means that whoever you pick for your secondary won't be just some high tier who makes Greninja obsolete anyway.

 

[PenguinStorm]

I think we can all agree that iStudying has shown us a glimpse of Greninja's potential. The tournament could have gone in his favor if Esam had taken Mr. R out. Mr. R had two things going for him: matchup knowledge and a Sheik privilege. Esam didn't know how to apply pressure on iStudying in his usual way without getting hit by nair setups. Mr. R 3-0'd iStudying by keeping his distance and punishing hard without getting hit by any big footstool setups. If iSudying had played anyone that didn't know the Greninja matchup or played someone that gave Greninja more opportunities he could have won Beast 6.


What does this say about his solo viability? Well I don't think we can conclude that we'll start seeing Gekkouga swarming every top 8 from here on out, but I think the spotlight got was enough to show that he can win against top tiers, it's just damn hard. Struggling against Sheik doesn't necessarily make a character not solo viable.
If that were true, every character in this game would be unviable to a degree.
Greninja has a really high skill floor and ceiling, and once you reach it you can even beat the world's best Pikachu.

 

[TTYK]

Sheik is not an unwinnable match up. iStudying takes sets off of gregs and games off of mr. r. It will only be a matter of time.

 

[PenguinStorm]

Sheik is not an unwinnable match up. iStudying takes sets off of gregs and games off of mr. r. It will only be a matter of time.

I agree, Greninja can be played alot of different ways. To best a Sheik you have to be creative enough to find openings and fight hard offstage (Hydro Pump is arguably among the best edge guarding moves in the game).

 

[bc1910]

Posted a brief analysis of some results from this weekend. Greninja had 3 podium finishes (1st, 2nd or 3rd) in big tournaments this weekend. This was more than any other character besides Sheik and Diddy, and iStudying beat Gregs' Sheik.

These are big red flashing indicators that Greninja is a solo-viable threat.

 

[free33]

Okay people what are we thinking in this new patch? Greninja got some new combos, safer, better aerials, a better dash attack, and an almost normal standing grab. On top of that, we got an improved matchup spread, especially with the nerfs to our worst mu, shiek, making it much more managable. So, are we solo viable yet? I would say yes. We have been on the fence for a while, but istudying giving his performance plus buffs plus nerfs to our bad mu's puts our little frog over the line to viable. What do you guys think?

 

[bc1910]

Yes. We are 100% solo viable. The Sheik nerfs have made a huge difference, and our buffs are helpful in our other MUs. Nerfs to the other top characters don't hurt either. I think Greninja is one of the best high tiers now, with the potential to rise higher.