Platforms or power shielding. Otherwise, you really don't it's a silly hard MU.
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Solar Powered: Ivysaur Q&A/General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir
- Start date
DirtyRoach
Smash Cadet
Had a feeling it was a harsh matchup for Ivysaur. So basically, something like Battlefield is my best friend
DirtyRoach
Smash Cadet
I looooove YI against everyone, since I can grab them and throw them off stage then heal off any shy guys that are around. Also you can crawl under poorly placed projectiles.
I don't like this stage myself, except against characters that outspam ivysaur. I have a certain distaste for slopes, and randy/the walls only help the opponent, never Ivysaur. And on top of that, the side slopes are a pain against some characters like marth : he can do an fsmash while teetering and it will cover so. Much. Space.
But the fear factor of a guaranteed third solar beam is enough for most people to make it their autoban against me. I had the same thing in Brawl where everyone banned Final Destination against Diddy but I didn't like this stage at all lol.
But the fear factor of a guaranteed third solar beam is enough for most people to make it their autoban against me. I had the same thing in Brawl where everyone banned Final Destination against Diddy but I didn't like this stage at all lol.
Nominate10
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2013
- Messages
- 277
- 3DS FC
- 5000-3932-8404
Use platforms, stay in the air, etc. Remember that lasers only do like 1%, so getting hit by a few lasers really isn't anything. Just don't let them lead into easy combos. Shielding them is unreliable and usually just traps you. This is just one of those matchups where you have to approach if they are camping.
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webshooter
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2010
- Messages
- 10
So I've been getting wrecked really badly by MKs and Marths. One thing that I constantly hear from these players is that I should stop being in the air. Does that mean I should only space with Dtilt/Ftilt etc? I feel like my approach and spacing game is gutted if I can't Bair of fullhop Fair. Also, How do I get out of being juggled? Dair and Uair can only do so much.
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Just be careful when you throw those moves out. If you do them early very often, people will be able to come in and harass you. The trick is to mix up early and late.
[collapse=Tilts]-Forward Tilt multi-hit SDI multipliers set to a consistent 0.80x from 0.75x and 1.05x. Rear send off hit now matches angle/BKB/KBG of front send off hits but is 4 instead of 7 DMG.
-Up Tilt BKB 60 -> 40. KBG 78 -> 105.[/collapse]
Ftilt overall less SDIable with this change? I'm happy with that then. Uptilt actually seems like it may be better at low percents then before.
[collapse=Aerials]Aerials
-Neutral Aerial Auto-cancel pushed back from frame 27 -> 38
-Forward Aerial Vine range reduced 10-20% during frames 17-19.
-Back Aerial DMG inside-to-outside 8/7/5/5 -> 5/5/7/8. Angle inside-to-outside 38/38/30/30 -> 30/30/45/45. Second swing's active frames begin on frame 16 instead of 15.
-Down Aerial Initial vertical boost reduced significantly. Staled vertical boost reduced slightly.[/collapse]
Some interesting stuff here:
-Nair nerf not too bad.
-Fair a little worse, overall not too bad.
-Bair seems different? Will have to play with it. Outside hitbox now a bit better for combos, worse for kills. Inside better angle for kills, does less damage.
-Dair changes make me sad. We probably get hit the hardest with tether nerfs of all characters. Getting back on stage is gonna suck
[collapse=Throws]Grabs/Throws
-Standing Grab Grab-box duration 4 -> 2 frames. Body box moved forward 4 units
-Dash Grab Grab-box duration 5->3 frames. Body box moved forward 4 units. IASA 33->35.
-Forward Throw DMG 11 -> 10. KBG 45 -> 60
-Back Throw DMG 10 -> 11. BKB 70 -> 40. KBG 70 -> 82
-Up Throw Now a bulb attack that Heals / Charges 3%. Now has an outer hit-box that hits non-thrown opponents for 5%. Release frame 14 -> 19. DMG 10 -> 6. Angle 100 -> 90. BKB 70 -> 50. KBG 61 -> 120. IASA 28 -> 43[/collapse]
-Timing for grabs a bit stricter. Happy it was this instead of a range nerf. Still, body box moving forward gives us a little less effective range into attacks.
-Fthrow kills faster.
-Bthrow starts much weaker, doesn't get as strong until very high percents. Combo pontential at low% stronger? Will have to play with this.
-Uthrow I'm not going to make assumptions about before testing. I like the idea. That KBG seems like a kill-throw, at high percents at very least. Late IASA. Might still be able to chaingrab fastfallers at certain %s.
[collapse=Specials]Specials
-Neutral Special (Synthesis/Solar Beam)
--Solar Beam charge requirement 18 -> 22 points of charge
-Side Special (Razor Leaf)
--Removed ability to smash-throw
-Up Special (Power Whip)
--DMG inside-to-outside 13/13/13/18/18 -> 11/11/11/13/14
--BKB inside-to-outside 40/40/40/80/80 -> 40/40/40/60/80
--Landing during up-b goes into heavy landing instead of special landing.
--Fixed the glitch where up special does not go into special fall. [/collapse]
-Beam: 22 points again. Meh. A bit annoying.
-Leaf: Never smash threw them anyways, seemed bad ever since the endlag got huge.
-Whip: Langing lag up, Damage down. Knockback on slightly not tipper a bit worse Shouldn't be too bad. Might as well note here that the tether changes are gonna be hard on us in general.
[collapse=Others]-Can no longer heal or gain charge off of inanimate objects.
-Final Smash added - Sunny Day
--Ivysaur heals 66% and is granted 3 solar beam charges.[/collapse]
-No more shy guy/balloon heal. Whatever, it was kinda gimmicky anyhow.
-I like that I have a final smash now but I'm till never going to use the item.
Overall:
-Recovery hit the hardest. Sort of expected given it's the patches "theme" at least. Haven't looked into the other characters as hard yet but I expected similar things.
-Riskier stuff slightly better, safe stuff slightly worse. Fair enough.
-Throw game seems really different. Will have to play with it before making judgments.
-Fewer kill options(?). Bthrow kills later, bair is harder. Might get a bit off of fthrow/uthrow KBG?
-Lots of stuff to test.
-Up Tilt BKB 60 -> 40. KBG 78 -> 105.[/collapse]
Ftilt overall less SDIable with this change? I'm happy with that then. Uptilt actually seems like it may be better at low percents then before.
[collapse=Aerials]Aerials
-Neutral Aerial Auto-cancel pushed back from frame 27 -> 38
-Forward Aerial Vine range reduced 10-20% during frames 17-19.
-Back Aerial DMG inside-to-outside 8/7/5/5 -> 5/5/7/8. Angle inside-to-outside 38/38/30/30 -> 30/30/45/45. Second swing's active frames begin on frame 16 instead of 15.
-Down Aerial Initial vertical boost reduced significantly. Staled vertical boost reduced slightly.[/collapse]
Some interesting stuff here:
-Nair nerf not too bad.
-Fair a little worse, overall not too bad.
-Bair seems different? Will have to play with it. Outside hitbox now a bit better for combos, worse for kills. Inside better angle for kills, does less damage.
-Dair changes make me sad. We probably get hit the hardest with tether nerfs of all characters. Getting back on stage is gonna suck
[collapse=Throws]Grabs/Throws
-Standing Grab Grab-box duration 4 -> 2 frames. Body box moved forward 4 units
-Dash Grab Grab-box duration 5->3 frames. Body box moved forward 4 units. IASA 33->35.
-Forward Throw DMG 11 -> 10. KBG 45 -> 60
-Back Throw DMG 10 -> 11. BKB 70 -> 40. KBG 70 -> 82
-Up Throw Now a bulb attack that Heals / Charges 3%. Now has an outer hit-box that hits non-thrown opponents for 5%. Release frame 14 -> 19. DMG 10 -> 6. Angle 100 -> 90. BKB 70 -> 50. KBG 61 -> 120. IASA 28 -> 43[/collapse]
-Timing for grabs a bit stricter. Happy it was this instead of a range nerf. Still, body box moving forward gives us a little less effective range into attacks.
-Fthrow kills faster.
-Bthrow starts much weaker, doesn't get as strong until very high percents. Combo pontential at low% stronger? Will have to play with this.
-Uthrow I'm not going to make assumptions about before testing. I like the idea. That KBG seems like a kill-throw, at high percents at very least. Late IASA. Might still be able to chaingrab fastfallers at certain %s.
[collapse=Specials]Specials
-Neutral Special (Synthesis/Solar Beam)
--Solar Beam charge requirement 18 -> 22 points of charge
-Side Special (Razor Leaf)
--Removed ability to smash-throw
-Up Special (Power Whip)
--DMG inside-to-outside 13/13/13/18/18 -> 11/11/11/13/14
--BKB inside-to-outside 40/40/40/80/80 -> 40/40/40/60/80
--Landing during up-b goes into heavy landing instead of special landing.
--Fixed the glitch where up special does not go into special fall. [/collapse]
-Beam: 22 points again. Meh. A bit annoying.
-Leaf: Never smash threw them anyways, seemed bad ever since the endlag got huge.
-Whip: Langing lag up, Damage down. Knockback on slightly not tipper a bit worse Shouldn't be too bad. Might as well note here that the tether changes are gonna be hard on us in general.
[collapse=Others]-Can no longer heal or gain charge off of inanimate objects.
-Final Smash added - Sunny Day
--Ivysaur heals 66% and is granted 3 solar beam charges.[/collapse]
-No more shy guy/balloon heal. Whatever, it was kinda gimmicky anyhow.
-I like that I have a final smash now but I'm till never going to use the item.
Overall:
-Recovery hit the hardest. Sort of expected given it's the patches "theme" at least. Haven't looked into the other characters as hard yet but I expected similar things.
-Riskier stuff slightly better, safe stuff slightly worse. Fair enough.
-Throw game seems really different. Will have to play with it before making judgments.
-Fewer kill options(?). Bthrow kills later, bair is harder. Might get a bit off of fthrow/uthrow KBG?
-Lots of stuff to test.
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Her throw game is not nearly as good (read: not stupid) because it's all positioning; no true follow-ups any more.
Up-B landing change is a buff (that's back from Brawl). Previously you had about 15 frames of landing lag if you landed before you when into SpecialFall. Now it's 4, as if you landed from a fullhop. This makes it a viable trapping option when using it above platforms, since you can seamlessly follow with another attack afterward.
Some stuff that's not listed there: Many characters' ledge grab boxes were reduced in size, so sweetspotting is harder for most of them.
You can't press Down to cancel a ledge tether anymore.
Up-B landing change is a buff (that's back from Brawl). Previously you had about 15 frames of landing lag if you landed before you when into SpecialFall. Now it's 4, as if you landed from a fullhop. This makes it a viable trapping option when using it above platforms, since you can seamlessly follow with another attack afterward.
Some stuff that's not listed there: Many characters' ledge grab boxes were reduced in size, so sweetspotting is harder for most of them.
You can't press Down to cancel a ledge tether anymore.
So what can Ivy do off of throws now? I'd experiment but cant rn
...Positioning. You can guess whether or not they'll use their double-jump, and you can safely swing an aerial Up-B at them if there's a platform nearby, since you can immediately land with it.
D-Tilt landings. It's like the greatest move in a lot of situations.
D-Tilt landings. It's like the greatest move in a lot of situations.
Shell
Flute-Fox Only
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2007
- Messages
- 2,042
Hi guys, here's more info on the Dair momentum change which didn't quite come across in the change log:
Dair vertical boost previously would always reset vert to 1.350 dU/F on first use, 0.600 dU/F on second use, 0.175 dU/F on third use. Holding down would skip to the last / lowest reset speed of 0.175 dU/F.
Now reworked... levels are 0.870 dU/F initial, 0.160 dU/F stale.
If you are rising it gives you the smallest boost of 0.16 dU/F and does not reset your vert so you continue to rise, synergizing slightly with jump / DJ and looking more natural. If you are falling then it resets your vert to 0.87 dU/F on first use, or 0.16 dU/F on subsequent uses. Like before, holding down always resets vert to the low reset speed, now 0.16 dU/F.
This accomplishes several things. The default vert boost out of fall has been decreased from 1.35 dU/F -> 0.87 dU/F, reducing safety somewhat. You can still achieve a higher rising Dair off stage by doing DJ -> Dair (not holding down), although this obviously sacrifices your DJ. Likewise on stage you can get a higher rising Dair by doing FH -> Dair (not holding down).
Overall trims recovery and edgeguarding safety a bit more, while also making it look more natural and be more flexible with the non-reset default option on rise. Mess around with these new options until you feel comfortable utilizing them all.
Dair vertical boost previously would always reset vert to 1.350 dU/F on first use, 0.600 dU/F on second use, 0.175 dU/F on third use. Holding down would skip to the last / lowest reset speed of 0.175 dU/F.
Now reworked... levels are 0.870 dU/F initial, 0.160 dU/F stale.
If you are rising it gives you the smallest boost of 0.16 dU/F and does not reset your vert so you continue to rise, synergizing slightly with jump / DJ and looking more natural. If you are falling then it resets your vert to 0.87 dU/F on first use, or 0.16 dU/F on subsequent uses. Like before, holding down always resets vert to the low reset speed, now 0.16 dU/F.
This accomplishes several things. The default vert boost out of fall has been decreased from 1.35 dU/F -> 0.87 dU/F, reducing safety somewhat. You can still achieve a higher rising Dair off stage by doing DJ -> Dair (not holding down), although this obviously sacrifices your DJ. Likewise on stage you can get a higher rising Dair by doing FH -> Dair (not holding down).
Overall trims recovery and edgeguarding safety a bit more, while also making it look more natural and be more flexible with the non-reset default option on rise. Mess around with these new options until you feel comfortable utilizing them all.
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TimeSmash
Smash Champion
Does anyone know where I can find frame data for Ivysaur?
Sorry to bump this topic, but it's worthless for me to make a new thread over this and this should be given a healthy bump anyways haha
Sorry to bump this topic, but it's worthless for me to make a new thread over this and this should be given a healthy bump anyways haha
himemiya
Smash Lord
So if I took damage then healed myself back to 0 then finished off my opponent would it still count as a jv?
Kyle Strand
Smash Cadet
Are there any other ivy mains in Washington? I never see any at tournaments.