So what MUs would 2122 small brawler actually lose?

MERPIS

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#1
there cant be too many judging by all of small brawler's jank.
 

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#2
Maybe some top tier with better range, like Cloud. There's also the chance that Witch time or Mario's throw combos would rain on your parade. Tiny brawler is solidly a top tier, but it's not really better than current top tiers.

I did get bodied by one in an online tourney, though.
 

MERPIS

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#3
Maybe some top tier with better range, like Cloud. There's also the chance that Witch time or Mario's throw combos would rain on your parade. Tiny brawler is solidly a top tier, but it's not really better than current top tiers.

I did get bodied by one in an online tourney, though.
They're all bodied by helicopter kick kills at 30% or lower, cloud is gimped to death super easily by brawler, bayonetta hates grabs, mario wont kill before being killed
 

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#4
They're all bodied by helicopter kick kills at 30% or lower, cloud is gimped to death super easily by brawler, bayonetta hates grabs, mario wont kill before being killed

Sure, but Brawler doesn't really have the easy spacing and juggling of Cloud, the easy combos of Bayonetta, or the Up-smash of Mario. If anything, Mii Brawler has a bad neutral compared to these characters, because he must rack damage with weak and very tiny hitboxes. He can be killed by virtually any spike, and must consistently read DI. Helicopter kick is a very good move, but once you play around it, it's like any other top tier MU. D-throw to kick is both percent and DI dependent.

The online tourney I was talking about was notable for its free miis, and I was eager to try out a small Mii Swordfighter. The matchup with Mii Brawler was pretty atrocious, but it was in line with other top tiers I had to fight as well. IIRC, the Brawler sent me to losers and eventually a Fox knocked me out of the tourney.
 

MERPIS

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#5
Sure, but Brawler doesn't really have the easy spacing and juggling of Cloud, the easy combos of Bayonetta, or the Up-smash of Mario. If anything, Mii Brawler has a bad neutral compared to these characters, because he must rack damage with weak and very tiny hitboxes. He can be killed by virtually any spike, and must consistently read DI. Helicopter kick is a very good move, but once you play around it, it's like any other top tier MU. D-throw to kick is both percent and DI dependent.

The online tourney I was talking about was notable for its free miis, and I was eager to try out a small Mii Swordfighter. The matchup with Mii Brawler was pretty atrocious, but it was in line with other top tiers I had to fight as well. IIRC, the Brawler sent me to losers and eventually a Fox knocked me out of the tourney.
but then you realize mii brawler has combos up the ass and the best time out in the entire game bar maybe sonic, and yes, Brawler actually does have easybake combos, and dthrow to fair to helicopter kick actually works and is true almost regardless of your so called DI
 

Ryuphoton

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#6
It's a interesting question. As a person who plays small mii brawler 2122 where ever it's legal, a lot of people have trouble vs him. I don't know if this is because of matchup inexperience. But I do find that the players who use characters that have respectable range do better. Now I don't know if that's just me, but I would say he might have a slightly disadvantageous matchup vs marth IN THEORY. Now in practice i'm not too sure since I never encounter many marth's in my area outside my friends.
 

MERPIS

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#7
It's a interesting question. As a person who plays small mii brawler 2122 where ever it's legal, a lot of people have trouble vs him. I don't know if this is because of matchup inexperience. But I do find that the players who use characters that have respectable range do better. Now I don't know if that's just me, but I would say he might have a slightly disadvantageous matchup vs marth IN THEORY. Now in practice i'm not too sure since I never encounter many marth's in my area outside my friends.
I wouldn't say Marth has too good of a MU vs him, its sorta like the pikachu MU but without projectiles and instead he can kill you at like 30%, the mobility is more than enough to compensate for the lack of range.
 
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Ryuphoton

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#8
I wouldn't say Marth has too good of a MU vs him, its sorta like the pikachu MU but without projectiles and instead he can kill you at like 30%, the mobility is more than enough to compensate for the lack of range.
I would say marth also has good mobility, but no where near the same as brawler. The dthrow to helicopter kick combo also doesn't seem to work as long on marth, most likely due to him being floatly. But I still see it as a slightly disadvantageous for brawler because getting in might be a problem due to the lack of range, but is compensated by the mobility I guess? But recklessly approaching with just mobility will get you punished.
I see your perspective, but the way I look at it, small brawler struggles to get in and maintain control vs marth, at least on paper. I really wish I came across more marth players in my area to have a better opinion on this matchup.
 

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#9
If the Marth knows the matchup and how to space correctly the mu should be annoyingly difficult for the Mii Brawler.

A small Brawler will have additional mobility, sure, but if your opponent knows what they're up against it's not going to be a free win. Miis generally strive on MU unfamiliarity, Mii Brawler is no different. Mii Brawler is just a really good character that gets so much more out of MU knowledge.

If they stay center stage and stuff out your approach options I'm sure it's in Marth's favor.
 
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