So items and casual play are generally disliked now?

[RepStar]

What happened? I get this idea that casual play and definitely items are not popular with the online playerbase. Based on my experiences with elite and, regular quick matches, items are off 98% of the time, no hazards and, no matter the gsp its usually a stock match but, in the hella low numbers (50,000) time match is more frequent. When i hosted an arena match that was 3 stock, 6 minutes, 6 players, bottom two leave(meaning everyone is always guaranteed to play next since its 6 ppl), 4 player smash, stage hazards, random select of like 8 stages and, a few items set to medium (+1 stock flag, both smash balls, reflector badge, static screw attack badge, smart bomb and, jet-pack). from my experience, these were hype matches of clutch moments and a mix of casual/competitive mostly competitive with items of many come-backs and character buffs. I wouldnt even consider those rulesets casual but, nonetheless it flopped in veteran player lobbies and, all skill level lobbies. Ppl left and, never stayed. 4 player, no items, no stage hazards, FD layout, is getting tiring. This game offers more than a traditional fighter with a unique potential of experimenting new ways to play but, its like traditional smash is dead and, nobody likes even the slightest of items anymore or, stage hazards when both can potentially increase the competition, hype, comebacks etc. Its sad really, smh.

 

[Crystanium]

It's been this way for a long time.

 

[staindgrey]

1) Are you new to the franchise in general? "Final destination, no items, Fox only" and all that?
2) You've complained about Smash not being enough of a competitive fighter in previous threads, yet you prefer having the randomness of items and stages with hazards. Pick a stance, maybe?
3) I don't think I've seen one post of yours that's positive, actually. I'm having trouble figuring out why you hang out here. Not saying you shouldn't, I'm just... confused.

 

[RepStar]

It's been this way for a long time.

Since when? I never played the wii u game. Im talking about the online playerbase btw.

1) Are you new to the franchise in general? "Final destination, no items, Fox only" and all that?
2) You've complained about Smash not being enough of a competitive fighter in previous threads, yet you prefer having the randomness of items and stages with hazards. Pick a stance, maybe?
3) I don't think I've seen one post of yours that's positive, actually. I'm having trouble figuring out why you hang out here. Not saying you shouldn't, I'm just... confused.

Because i like smash bros

 

[Khao]

I play items with friends almost all the time. They make for some ridiculous fun, and we often end up laughing our asses off at unexpected **** that happens randomly.

But that's with friends.

Online? I'm not gonna have the same mentality with people I don't know and who I can't even communicate which. I just want a good fair game, get better, and play my character to its full potential. Items usually just get in the way of that.

 

[RepStar]

I play items with friends almost all the time. They make for some ridiculous fun, and we often end up laughing our ***** off at unexpected **** that happens randomly.

But that's with friends.

Online? I'm not gonna have the same mentality with people I don't know and who I can't even communicate which. I just want a good fair game, get better, and play my character to its full potential. Items usually just get in the way of that.

Bro were talkin about match PREFERENCES and arena matches for people who intentionally want to play this way. Those 2 features dont help and, lets me know the online playerbase doesnt favor those kinds things at all. I could try playground but theyre toxic taunt parties and scrubs that are so bad.

 

[Ze Diglett]

I know that feel. It really sucks how seemingly no one in the online community is willing to give anything but FG rules a shot. It's not like I'm looking for a 10 minute time match with all items on high on Great Cave Offensive, I just wanna go somewhere other than Battlefield and FD, dammit!
I kind of hate how the Smash community has locked itself into 1v1 culture so hard. I, personally, can't stand 1v1's and find them torturous to play most of the time, but I don't exactly have much of a choice if I'm not playing with friends. It's not like there are FFA tournaments being organized anywhere, and good luck getting four strangers together who all have stable connections to play an online match. There's not exactly an Anther's Ladder for casual players, anyway.

 

[Crystanium]

RepStar
As early as Melee, I'd say. I own all SSB games, and back during the N64 days, I played with items on. I was competitive, but I didn't go by some rule set. It wasn't until late Melee when Brawl was announced that I started playing without items. Brawl's online play was less than stellar, and in SSB4, For Glory was separated from For Fun. Tournaments have become more popular and mainstream to the point that hardcore fans want SSB to go in a more professional/tournament direction. Casual players will always exist, but serious players are more vocal now than ever.

 

[Gryphon827]

The general hatred for filthy casuals isn't anything new; for the past 20 years (yes, the Smash series turned 20 yesterday), everyone has played competitively, and the low percentage of casuals has been outcast.

 

[Nepht]

Most people buy this game for random stage, all items, anyone but Fox. So no casual is not disliked 99% of the people that buy Smash Ultimate will be playing casually for fun.

 

[Gryphon827]

Most people buy this game for all items, no Fox , random stage. So no casual is not disliked 99% of the people that buy Smash Ultimate will be playing casually for fun.

99% of people who play this game are at a competitive level. No one likes casual players.
(Had to edit because "casual***s" didn't get censored, and I got warned for filter evasion)

 

[Sean²]

Competitive play in most games has been thrust into the faces of younger players with popular Twitch streams and Youtube being massive hubs for it. Kids see people like Zero do crazy stuff on stream, eat it up, and want to mirror it.

When I was a kid, Smash was no different than Mario Party - a fun game where you beat up your friends, throw Pokeballs, and call Link a cheap character. I didn't even know how to shield properly. But then Youtube came around. It may show my age a bit but when I was first discovering competitive smash in high school, the only videos on Youtube were kind of hard to find. You had to specifically search for like "Ken vs Bombsoldier" or "The King (Jigglypuff)". And even then you wouldn't really get a lot except for terrible 240p videos filmed from a Motorola Razr on like page 6 where you could barely tell what was happening anyway. I couldn't believe they could move that fast and wanted to do that too, so I could destroy and impress my friends, who were already a bit ahead of me considering they were already playing with items off. Now all you have to do is search "Smash" and you get tons of videos that are competitive matches and/or guides on playing optimally. Items off is the new items on.

Now combine that with online play. People who are going to be playing casually are generally not going to queue up for online play with randoms. They're going to play that stuff socially. You don't get the same experience with randoms. Hitting a random online guy with the home run bat isn't quite the same as hitting your brother, best friend, dad, etc. with one. The people who are going to queue up are going to be in it for practice. Competitive play online versus offline isn't as polarizing of an experience as casual play is. Offline you play your matches, then handshake or fist bump no matter who wins or loses, then go about your merry way. How different is it online? It really isn't much different at all, minus the actual physical presence of the other person you're playing. You can get your daily practice regimen in without having to call someone over or just lab in training mode for hours.

I like to compare it to Mario Kart. I'm awful at Mario Kart. For some reason it's a game I just have issues playing well, so I just play it for fun with friends. If I load up MK Online, I just get destroyed. There are so many people out there who are somehow godlike at this game. Like pulling out an inexplicable lead of over half a lap within the first two laps. So I don't play it online, and just put it in if I'm around friends where we can joke and laugh about it. Sound familiar?

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I rarely play with items or stage hazards on, even with my siblings and friends, since chances are someone's going to lose to some random BS. I'll play with items sometimes, but stage hazards are almost a guaranteed no, especially on really big and/or janky stages. Playing on a simple map without items is my best experience since I have to focus on a lot less, and everything is more or less based on skill. If the gameplay is based primarily on skill it helps me improve a lot.

 

[TeamChevy86]

Ultimate took the route of quantity over quality with the items, unfortunately... Too many items are 'I win' buttons, and map hazards that insta-gib you. It gets super annoying to lose your last stock to Boss Galaga and lose the match because of it.

That being said I still enjoy items and different maps outside of ranked matches.

 

[RepStar]

Well since thats the case then id like to vs anyone 1v1 but so far only one brave person took that offer. Is there like a section of this site that hosts arena matches where i can vs other users

 

[Sean²]

I mean yeah I’d play you but I don’t know what that will prove.

 

[RepStar]

I mean yeah I’d play you but I don’t know what that will prove.

I mean, this is smashboards right..so we like smash bros right...and you ppl are competitive right..it would make sense to exchange FCs and play eachother...right? We dont even have to add eachother it could be as simple as hosting an arena and giving out the code and passcode. Im just surprised no one does that here or that there isnt a forum section for it.

 

[RealPokeFan11]

I would say the player base is 25% casual, 75% competitive. I'm on both sides, depending on my mood. I love messing around with pokeballs and assist trophies on high for fun, and when I legitimately want to get better with a character, I set the stage to omega and turn the items off. I'm not the person to judge a player based on their preferences.

 

[Sean²]

I mean, this is smashboards right..so we like smash bros right...and you ppl are competitive right..it would make sense to exchange FCs and play eachother...right? We dont even have to add eachother it could be as simple as hosting an arena and giving out the code and passcode. Im just surprised no one does that here or that there isnt a forum section for it.

There’s a matchmaking thread in the online discussion forum. Most average everyday matchmaking is gonna happen on Discord or Anther’s though

And yeah PM me I’d be willing to play sometime as long as there isn’t lag, my FC is in my profile if you wanna add.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Most people are casual. Most casuals just don't play online with a paid service.

For a lot of people Smash is the perfect "with friends" game and it stays that.

 

[RepStar]

Most people are casual. Most casuals just don't play online with a paid service.

For a lot of people Smash is the perfect "with friends" game and it stays that.

Makes alot of sense. The paid service is the main culprit.

 

[ItsLogic]

I mean its kinda been like this in most competitive play, sometime even since Smash 64 itself. I wouldn't say that casual play and items are generally frowned upon, but they are disliked and almost always never used in competitive play, with some exceptions. So yeah, items and casual play is fine , but don't do that in competitive.

 

[InFury Z.]

I've made a casual Discord 'Item Mastery' https://discord.gg/dReSpV8 .
Have fun!

 

[pupNapoleon]

It's been this way for a long time.

Since 2001

 

[Deleted member]

It's pretty much always been the way since Items make the battles completely luck based. You don't really need to fight at all; just grab a quick character with decent recovery (like Pikachu or something) and run after all the items; it's not as fun when someone's just hoarding items.

Every now and then it can be fun to just watch chaos unfold as you do nothing but Pokeballs or Assist trophies for a match or two, but really items distract from the actual game. My group tends to go with either Items On or Stages with Hazards if we want something other than 'normal'.

 

[Nutty Sponge]

This is a really dumb thread. No one will hate you for being a casual player. You're just pulling **** out of your ass so you can complain about something else.

 

[Xelrog]

I've never known a single person in my life who liked timed matches. Rarely have I met those in or out of competitive who liked items on--and I was one of them in the days of Melee. Then the good, balanced, mix-the-game-up items like the fan and parasol got phased out in favor of overpowered RNG instant kill trash like Galaga and the hummingbird, as well as just plain unfun "take damage for a while" items like bees and cuccoos, and the few people who liked items disappeared. I don't understand how you can still experience any level of fun or satisfaction playing with the items currently in the game, personally.

The level design fell to pieces, too. Ever since Melee there's been no middle ground: either a level is Final Destination boring, or it's balls to the wall up-to-eleven five gimmicks going on at the same time. There's no longer a gray area. I love this franchise to death but the game design that allowed for fun casual play died with Melee.

 

[Luigifan18]

I've never known a single person in my life who liked timed matches. Rarely have I met those in or out of competitive who liked items on--and I was one of them in the days of Melee. Then the good, balanced, mix-the-game-up items like the fan and parasol got phased out in favor of overpowered RNG instant kill trash like Galaga and the hummingbird, as well as just plain unfun "take damage for a while" items like bees and cuccoos, and the few people who liked items disappeared. I don't understand how you can still experience any level of fun or satisfaction playing with the items currently in the game, personally.

The level design fell to pieces, too. Ever since Melee there's been no middle ground: either a level is Final Destination boring, or it's balls to the wall up-to-eleven five gimmicks going on at the same time. There's no longer a gray area. I love this franchise to death but the game design that allowed for fun casual play died with Melee.

Um... how exactly was the fan "balanced"? Its jab speed was completely insane. I would still like it in the game and was sad to see it go after Brawl, but it was definitely pretty freaking broken. The Red Shell was also nuts, especially on Final Destination. The parasol is definitely an odd exclusion, though, and there's no way any claims that it "makes recovery too easy" hold water when you compare it to the Super Leaf or Rocket Belt.

 

[Xelrog]

Um... how exactly was the fan "balanced"? Its jab speed was completely insane. I would still like it in the game and was sad to see it go after Brawl, but it was definitely pretty freaking broken. The Red Shell was also nuts, especially on Final Destination. The parasol is definitely an odd exclusion, though, and there's no way any claims that it "makes recovery too easy" hold water when you compare it to the Super Leaf or Rocket Belt.

The fan did like zero damage, jabbing with it was just a silly taunt. Its main use was for throwing. Red shell was all right. Not a hill I'll die defending, but I enjoyed jump rope more than I enjoy the items I cited, for sure. It refreshing on reflect was an unintended glitch, not a flaw with the item's concept.

 

[osby]

I've never known a single person in my life who liked timed matches. Rarely have I met those in or out of competitive who liked items on--and I was one of them in the days of Melee. Then the good, balanced, mix-the-game-up items like the fan and parasol got phased out in favor of overpowered RNG instant kill trash like Galaga and the hummingbird, as well as just plain unfun "take damage for a while" items like bees and cuccoos, and the few people who liked items disappeared. I don't understand how you can still experience any level of fun or satisfaction playing with the items currently in the game, personally.

The level design fell to pieces, too. Ever since Melee there's been no middle ground: either a level is Final Destination boring, or it's balls to the wall up-to-eleven five gimmicks going on at the same time. There's no longer a gray area. I love this franchise to death but the game design that allowed for fun casual play died with Melee.

You can only speak for yourself.

I had a blast playing Brawl, 3DS and Ultimate casually, without items and stages needing to be balanced and fair for Melee players and I know quite a lot people still enjoy playing casually. Just because you don't like the direction series took doesn't mean everyone does.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

I had fun times playing casually from time to time, and as much as I want it to be an option online, literally nobody is there to play it. It's mostly because most of the people willing to play casually are locked out due to a paywall.

 

[Sean²]

So how about this 4 month old thread?

I like items, but there are some really stupid, unfun ones in Ultimate. All the insane OHKO, healing, and stage disruption items take over the match and generally aren't fun. The ones that reverse your controls are frustrating for just about anyone, no matter how young or drunk you are. I think if you tailor the item switch a bit and turn off some or all of the insane ones, it's pretty fun to play with items.

I'd take items over dumb stage designs any day. 75m or New Pork City can eat it.

 

[Xelrog]

You can only speak for yourself.

To be clear, I wasn't speaking for more than my own experience.

 

[Wyoming]

Ultimate took the route of quantity over quality with the items, unfortunately... Too many items are 'I win' buttons, and map hazards that insta-gib you. It gets super annoying to lose your last stock to Boss Galaga and lose the match because of it.

That being said I still enjoy items and different maps outside of ranked matches.

I think Smash 4 did this more, actually. The new items in Ultimate aren't too bad.

I agree that there's too many items. I know you can turn off specific items, but good luck finding an online match with your strict demands. Most people have all items on or none at all (unless the arena advertises a theme e.g: Pokeballs only)

I think Brawl had the right quantity and balance. They introduced a lot of unique items to add to the craziness, but nothing too unfair and overwhelming. Smash 4 simply added too many broken items to the mix.

 

[InFury Z.]

I think Smash 4 did this more, actually. The new items in Ultimate aren't too bad.

I agree that there's too many items. I know you can turn off specific items, but good luck finding an online match with your strict demands. Most people have all items on or none at all (unless the arena advertises a theme e.g: Pokeballs only)

I think Brawl had the right quantity and balance. They introduced a lot of unique items to add to the craziness, but nothing too unfair and overwhelming. Smash 4 simply added too many broken items to the mix.

Very true. You can also just start a match with people you've added as friends and tell them to play an Item match with a limited amount of Item types (enclosed a picture of turned on Items).
That is how we do it in Brawl, lol.

 

[lucasla]

I think this is all a problem caused by the fact that the space for casual and competitive players are not well defined on this game, so, it's not pleasing anyone.
I presume that most people hosting arenas are people disappointed by the randomness of the Quickplay with the Preffered Rules, so most of the Arenas will be for matches without items and crazy things, cause that is the space they gave people to configure matches and ensure that nothing will be random.