So... is Samus good?

[Toebex]

I have been playing a lot of Samus for the last few days and I really can't tell weather she is good or not. She has so many good traits and baits along with awesome projectiles, but she is so floaty and gets knocked around a lot. She is heaps better than she was in Brawl for sure, but I really can't tell. I know its a pretty open question, but thoughts?

 

[PolarPanda]

Definitely much better. Amazing for set-ups and great projectiles. Especially considering her custom moves; those are amazing for setting up.

 

[n00b]

Good, relative to everyone else, in the context of this game's mechanics/engine?

nah

 

[UberPyro64]

Next Best appearance after Melee I'd say. Ended up being one of my mains. Mind you I'm maining 12 characters so...

 

[option.iv]

Overall consensus is that she gets mauled by the "top tier" fast characters: Shiek, Greninja, ZSS, Sonic, etc. LittleMac if you want to consider him high tier. Against slower characters I feel she is solid. At least even or has some sort of advantage, specifically against heavy weights.

For characters with reflect, it just becomes a mind game. You have to weigh your options on when to shoot Charge Shot or approach differently. But for shorter duration reflects you can punish with Homing Missile + Charge Shot.

Against other projectile spammers (i.e. Link), I believe Samus has the edge just because of Charge Shot being able to eat through most of them.

Rosalina though is a problem. Disjointed hitbox and unfavorable trades. And the fact that Samus cannot dish out % as fast as others is a reason why Rosalina is a bad matchup. The strategy is either to pinpoint Rosalina (which is pretty hard if they're mobile) or take out the star asap, which again takes a while for Samus with her mediocre dps.

I'm also thinking DHD is a bad matchup, despite him being a projectile spammer, the neutral b (the can) eats up a fully charged shot. Combine that with low profile, good luck trying to hit DHD with a fully charged shot.

Her standout tools:
zair - best zair in the game IMO, but... low damage, and you must be accurate with it (space it properly) or you will eat a dash attack.
charge shot - best projectile in the game IMO. Charges faster than Robin's. May not be as fast, but it's fast enough. You can also cancel into shield, in turn get access to OOS options. Technically jump cancel, grab cancel, upsmash cancel, upb cancel out of charge shot.

And that's about it...

My gripes with her.
down b - So slow, people can react to it. Also, missile canceling no longer allowed. Bomb no longer explodes on contact. Basically more recovery on this move.
floatiness - It's a given, but in this game where DI got nerfed to hell, expect to eat so many more hits. Either that or seek refuge on the ledge.
jab jab combo - it's not really a combo, people can mash between the two and punish you.
no real punish for blocked cross ups - Samus doesn't have any OOS option to tag the person behind you. Also prepare to eat a lot of 1 frame LittleMac jabs.
nair - no longer good. It's basically a weak bair with less range and hits both sides. Only pro is that it recovers faster than bair.

tl;dr Is she good? In this game? No... just, no. She's far from being a top contending character.

 

[Narth]

I've never liked Samus in Smash, which is a shame since I love the Metroid series, and she has a lot of potential. However, I really like her in the new game. Her attacks feels more powerful to me and she's a lot more fun to use, for me - glad she's as good as she's ever been!!

 

[aozf05]

At this early stage, I predict that she'll end up mid-tier, at best

 

[MasterOfKnees]

She's currently my best character, I think she's very underrated honestly, I haven't even practiced much with her either, I have yet to lose a For Glory match with her. With that said, I think she has a huge problem with getting down to earth again once she's knocked up, the removal of her old N-Air makes it hard to dive down again as D-Air has a lot of landing lag. I don't think she's high tier by the end of the day, but she should be solid mid tier, she's definitely not bad at all compared to the rest of the cast.

 

[aozf05]

A lot of people seem to have problems getting back down to the stage with Samus. I don't find it incredibly difficult, you just gotta play a little mind games. Use down b to avoid juggling and stay airborne while you make your way to the edge or catch your opponent off guard when they land. Honestly I think people underestimate the usefulness of down b to avoid juggling. If you make your way to the edge, then use more mind games to get back up, and for that, you need to build up your edge game. IMO to play Samus well, you have to be good at mind games.

 

[n00b]

Bombs IMO are too slow and because they don't explode on contact, they aren't as disruptive as they could be. The startup is so slow that characters with fast aerial movement and those who can reach the top of the screen to pressure you will punish you regardless of really good mind games. If you win the mind game, you are at best at a neutral or still disadvantaged position. You're never really at an advantage for landing from bomb wiggling. Characters like Sheik, ZSS, Yoshi, Sonic etc can keep pressure and more than likely KO you off the top if your mind game fails.

Of course you need to be good at mind games but in certain matchups, even the best mind games are limited to Samus's actual frame data.. And it assumes your opponent can't have just as good reads with a better character. Anyway, I think it's worth noting it's more important to avoid juggle moves by identifying them in each matchup and playing around them in the first place. It isn't easy...

 

[aozf05]

The thing is, the bombs don't actually have to hit. I think if you're using them solely to hit, you're using them wrong. I use them to feint more than as a disruptor. Like I pretend like I'm going to fall one direction, then bomb and go the other way, or fall towards my opponent to draw him to attack me, then use the bomb to dodge his attack which sometimes also ends up being keeping them airborne for just another second when it explodes as they fall back down or go in for another attack. Or I drop a few bombs which I've found to be somewhat disruptive if they come up for an attack.
But then maybe I've just been fighting people who have never played against Samus.

 

[The Seventh One]

Sorry aozf05, the bombs wont disrupt anyone once they learn that they pass right through them with no consequence. Quite a shame really that the bomb is a highrisk no reward move with abysmally small hitbox and mediocre damage and no knockback.

 

[aozf05]

Sorry aozf05, the bombs wont disrupt anyone once they learn that they pass right through them with no consequence. Quite a shame really that the bomb is a highrisk no reward move with abysmally small hitbox and mediocre damage and no knockback.

But that's exactly why they can disrupt, because they think they can just walk right through it but then the timer expires and it explodes right when they're about to attack. It's worked wonders for me.

I'd hate to hear what you think of firing uncharged shots as a disruptor.

 

[The Seventh One]

Uncharged shots shots are active all the way and people can and will screw up their jumps in between them. They can also aid in a gimp set up. The bombs have no such use.

 

[aozf05]

I guess you dont use bombs enough to know that they can be used that way.

 

[The Seventh One]

I guess you dont use bombs enough to know that they can be used that way.

That might fly at the school playground with the casuals.

 

[aozf05]

Look. You said

Quite a shame really that the bomb is a highrisk no reward move with abysmally small hitbox and mediocre damage and no knockback.

The fact that you're focusing so much on damage and knockback means you're thinking of using them in the wrong situations. This isn't Melee anymore. Use the timing of the explosions to your advantage rather than completely ignoring them just because they don't explode on contact.

 

[The Seventh One]

Whoa captain obvious hold up. "Use the timing of the explosions to your advantage rather than completely ignoring them just because they don't explode on contact." Thing is there no advantage for you to use how ever you did just give a competent opponent an advantage.

But hey lets look at some positives here. We have to stretch pretty far to custom moves tho namely number 2 I believe trip bombs I think.

 

[n00b]

But then maybe I've just been fighting people who have never played against Samus.

Maybe… Really, a player using a character of decent aerial mobility and an understanding of baiting, punishing, spacing and mindgames can easily see through the slow and telegraphed bomb wiggling you're praising so much. It's not like you can aerial super wave dash out of a bomb to safety, and you can't airdodge out of the bomb, or anything like that. You are a sitting duck that can alter trajectory a few degrees, but a sitting duck nonetheless.

 

[aozf05]

Look, it's not that I'm praising, I'm just saying some people are being too dismissive here. The game has only been out for a week. Experiment some more. The bombs have been pretty helpful to me against opponents at or above my skill level so maybe there's something to it.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

She is fun. Here's a few points I've noticed. As with most characters, she's gained knock back boosts to all her moves, Fair can kill off stage fairly early if you land the final hitbox.

Her F tilt is still her go to punish move for baiting out wiffs. Comes out quick, has great range, can be tilted but I'm not sure if the angled version adds more damage ala Brawl.
Dodge roll is slow, so slow. But since she can run very quickly now, dodging should be extremely situational.
Her Zair takes some getting used to coming from Brawl and it definitely isn't used the same way but feels satisfying nonetheless.
Dair can't be used out of a short hop effectively anymore unless it's a tall target in question. Meteors on a sweet spot but that shouldn't deter you from using it as you would have in brawl, has killer knockback regardless of it meteors or not.
Nair can be put to good use off stage, otherwise it's situational
Down B seems lackluster for the reasons discussed earlier. It may have its uses to punish ledge rolls and grabs etc.
Uair can KILL.
Dtilt doesn't kill anymore
Utilt, I haven't used at all but I have no reason to believe it doesn't kill.

 

[aozf05]

Utilt seems to have pretty good knockback against aerial opponents, it can kill below 150%

 

[SmashWolf]

Is she better than in Brawl or Smash 64? Hell to the yes. Anywhere close to Melee, or even within a galaxy's range of Project M Samus? Hell to the no. Though she's been buffed in some areas, her strongest abilities were nerfed. And she was never OP to begin with. So this just makes her a mediocre character all-around. Even her mighty charge shot isn't THAT effective on higher level play despite it's powerboost because of the game mechanics.

I feel she has a decent follow up game, and I can easily combo the **** out of players who don't know how to deal with Samus' arials. Samus has also been a Little Mac murder machine to me. But when the going gets tough, Samus just lacks ways to deal with pressure(curse you, jab!!!), regain control on the battlefield, and she's too slow. ESPECIALLY her roll....no wavedash to make up for that this time....

I really like Samus too, so I feel a bit cheated after the whole "lol, Samus is the strongest character" thing. Nontheless....she may at least have a shot at mid-tier if only for her half-decent combo game.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

Is she better than in Brawl or Smash 64? Hell to the yes. Anywhere close to Melee, or even within a galaxy's range of Project M Samus? Hell to the no. Though she's been buffed in some areas, her strongest abilities were nerfed. And she was never OP to begin with. So this just makes her a mediocre character all-around. Even her mighty charge shot isn't THAT effective on higher level play despite it's powerboost because of the game mechanics.

I feel she has a decent follow up game, and I can easily combo the **** out of players who don't know how to deal with Samus' arials. Samus has also been a Little Mac murder machine to me. But when the going gets tough, Samus just lacks ways to deal with pressure(curse you, jab!!!), regain control on the battlefield, and she's too slow. ESPECIALLY her roll....no wavedash to make up for that this time....

I really like Samus too, so I feel a bit cheated after the whole "lol, Samus is the strongest character" thing. Nontheless....she may at least have a shot at mid-tier if only for her half-decent combo game.

On the topic of jab, I've found that throwing out the first jab and running off to reposition is effective. Anyone who knows about the attack's horrible hitstun will buffer an attack to interrupt Samus before the second combo comes out so I find running back and either punishing with an F tilt or running off and shooting missiles/charging the charge shot to work. This time around I feel to utilize Samus effectively we have to play her as a skirmisher using her new run speed to it's fullest extent, mind ganes, and play as safely as possible (minimizing hard reads, playing defensively and patiently)

Is she better than in Brawl or Smash 64? Hell to the yes. Anywhere close to Melee, or even within a galaxy's range of Project M Samus? Hell to the no. Though she's been buffed in some areas, her strongest abilities were nerfed. And she was never OP to begin with. So this just makes her a mediocre character all-around. Even her mighty charge shot isn't THAT effective on higher level play despite it's powerboost because of the game mechanics.

I feel she has a decent follow up game, and I can easily combo the **** out of players who don't know how to deal with Samus' arials. Samus has also been a Little Mac murder machine to me. But when the going gets tough, Samus just lacks ways to deal with pressure(curse you, jab!!!), regain control on the battlefield, and she's too slow. ESPECIALLY her roll....no wavedash to make up for that this time....

I really like Samus too, so I feel a bit cheated after the whole "lol, Samus is the strongest character" thing. Nontheless....she may at least have a shot at mid-tier if only for her half-decent combo game.

I spent the past thirteen minutes typing an articulate reply but my phone crashed and it's gone so I'm going to try again being more brief.

Her jab sucks but if you input jab one alone, the hit stun is enough to run away from the enemiecs obligatory attempt at interrupting thr combo. You can then punish with an f tilt or reposition yourself.

I see Samus' run speed as her biggedt asset this time around and that to maximize her viability we need to play a heavy skirmishing style, play quick, agile, mind gamey. Lot's of F tilts and using the charge shot exclusively to punish.

 

[SmashWolf]

On the topic of jab, I've found that throwing out the first jab and running off to reposition is effective. Anyone who knows about the attack's horrible hitstun will buffer an attack to interrupt Samus before the second combo comes out so I find running back and either punishing with an F tilt or running off and shooting missiles/charging the charge shot to work. This time around I feel to utilize Samus effectively we have to play her as a skirmisher using her new run speed to it's fullest extent, mind ganes, and play as safely as possible (minimizing hard reads, playing defensively and patiently)

I don't know if you've checked on this or not http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-4-running-walking-speed-rankings.371564/#post-17752237 , but Samus' runspeed is pretty mediocre. It probably seems faster because the game itself is a little faster than Brawl.

Her F-tilt actually feels nerfed to me. It's got alot of endlag, it's range feels worse, and on low percentages, said endlag actually gets me hit in the face despite the fact I landed it perfectly. The missiles I imagine would come out too slow and would be shielded.

It's true I'm more the type of person to pressure someone and keep them in a tough spot rather than be the pokey defensive type, but even with that aside, Samus' options just don't seem that great right now. Yeah, she's a bit faster with a bit more KO power on some moves, but so many sacrifices were made to accomplish it. I really hope you guys find something amazing in Samus as time passes.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

I don't know if you've checked on this or not http://smashboards.com/threads/smash-4-running-walking-speed-rankings.371564/#post-17752237 , but Samus' runspeed is pretty mediocre. It probably seems faster because the game itself is a little faster than Brawl.

Her F-tilt actually feels nerfed to me. It's got alot of endlag, it's range feels worse, and on low percentages, said endlag actually gets me hit in the face despite the fact I landed it perfectly. The missiles I imagine would come out too slow and would be shielded.

It's true I'm more the type of person to pressure someone and keep them in a tough spot rather than be the pokey defensive type, but even with that aside, Samus' options just don't seem that great right now. Yeah, she's a bit faster with a bit more KO power on some moves, but so many sacrifices were made to accomplish it. I really hope you guys find something amazing in Samus as time passes.

Thanks for sharing the run speeds thread, twas very helpful. Samus may not be the fastest but my point is that she's fast enough however I may be wrong.

 

[Sarix]

Currently Samus feels like a semi-buffed 64 version of herself with missiles. At least she can combo again unlike Brawl. Sakurai seems set on keeping Samus within the Stone Wall archetype, being able to survive a lot while having weaker offensive prowess. There's nothing wrong with this design but the major limitations on Samus' offensive options, hit reward, and ability to gain momentum should not be as low as they are since she still performs below average under pressure.

IMO I don't get why they are so insistent on Samus going from the 4th fastest dash speed in 64 to below average in the following games.

I'm not surprised her jab is terrible still, I pretty much only use it as a bootleg anti-air. I get that they wanted the timer on Samus' bombs for flavor but that makes for poor gameplay and usability without a contact hitbox.

It just seems like HAL's ability to properly design Samus becomes a walking a contradiction: Below average pressure and defensive options, only above average survivability while struggling to gain momentum, etc. She can basically take more hits than average but her ability to retaliate and gain the upper hand is quite poor.

I do agree with Wolf in that she may be able to contest as a mid tier, but that's sketchy at best.

 

[option.iv]

Look, it's not that I'm praising, I'm just saying some people are being too dismissive here. The game has only been out for a week. Experiment some more. The bombs have been pretty helpful to me against opponents at or above my skill level so maybe there's something to it.

Thing is, we have things to compare Samus to. It's plain to see the changes (both Samus' and the system) and most are not in her favor. Bombs were just plain nerfed. I've been harping over this for a while. In no way did they get better. Saying bombs are so good when many have already explained it's shortcomings...

Even if you successfully use bombs as a mind game (aka opponent can't react), like Noob said, the odds are not in your favor. The safest bet is going for the ledge.

Also, this is the information age. The game has sold well over 2 million. I'm sure a good chunk of the game has been figured out. Sure there may be that one hidden tech that may or may not benefit Samus. But as it stands right now, Samus just doesn't benefit as much as other characters, both character-wise and system-wise.

 

[Hapajin]

Finally managed to play the 3DS smash, and here are my Samus impressions:

Jab: Yeah pretty bad. which is a shame, because I think the animation looks a bit cooler than previous versions.
Ftilt: trying to implement this more, a bit awkward for me with the circle pad. I think it works better than Brawl's, overall. Looking forward to using the GC controller.
Dtilt: Sorta bummed it's not a kill move anymore, but I like that it's a combo starter into Fair and Uair. Seems like a relatively safe move, haven't been punished for it very much.
Utilt: Doesn't seem as fast as Melee's Utilt, but I've gotten some solid KO's with it, and it seems easier to land than in Brawl
Fsmash: Eh, pretty good. I like it better than Brawl's version, seems to kill much more reliably and has better range, but still easily punishable
Dsmash: Not super impressed. I've used it a couple times to punish roll-spammers, but there seems to be other good options. If anyone has some uses for Dsmash, I'm open to advice.
Usmash: looked pretty good in the trailers, but I've rarely used it, and it still seems pretty hard to land all the hits. Maybe I'm just bad at finding opportunities to land it?
Nair: I actually really like it. Definitely not as good as the Melee Nair, and I miss lasting-hitbox Nair, but I've gotten a decent amount of gimps and edgeguards with nair. A lot of times, it knocks opponents away at a semi-spike angle, which was a nice surprise
Fair: Yeah this is pretty solid. Easy to combo into, easy to land all the hits.
Bair: Good kill move, kinda hard to sweetspot, but it seems a bit stronger than the Brawl version.
Uair: another solid aerial, I find myself using Fair more, but I never used Uair much before, so maybe I just need to get in the habit of using it more.
Dair: Yeah a bit weird with the sourspot, but I hit with the sweetspot 95% of the time, so I rarely notice a difference compared to Brawl's version. When I do hit with the sourspot, it's usually over land, so I haven't gotten punished, but still an odd change.
Zair: I like the multiple hitboxes, but it seems a bit shorter than the Brawl and PM versions. Not sure how I feel about it yet.
Neutral B: Yes much improved. Probably my #1 or #2 killing move. Much better than Brawls
Side B: Ugh
Down B: Ugh
Up B: Pretty good, I've killed with it a few times, but on For Glory FD maps, it seems super unsafe. Small improvement over Brawl up B

Overall, I hold the opinion that she's a bit better than the Brawl version, but not anywhere near Melee or PM levels. Still fun to play as though, and in the end, I'm less frustrated playing her in Smash4 than I was in Brawl.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

Finally managed to play the 3DS smash, and here are my Samus impressions:

Jab: Yeah pretty bad. which is a shame, because I think the animation looks a bit cooler than previous versions.
Ftilt: trying to implement this more, a bit awkward for me with the circle pad. I think it works better than Brawl's, overall. Looking forward to using the GC controller.
Dtilt: Sorta bummed it's not a kill move anymore, but I like that it's a combo starter into Fair and Uair. Seems like a relatively safe move, haven't been punished for it very much.
Utilt: Doesn't seem as fast as Melee's Utilt, but I've gotten some solid KO's with it, and it seems easier to land than in Brawl
Fsmash: Eh, pretty good. I like it better than Brawl's version, seems to kill much more reliably and has better range, but still easily punishable
Dsmash: Not super impressed. I've used it a couple times to punish roll-spammers, but there seems to be other good options. If anyone has some uses for Dsmash, I'm open to advice.
Usmash: looked pretty good in the trailers, but I've rarely used it, and it still seems pretty hard to land all the hits. Maybe I'm just bad at finding opportunities to land it?
Nair: I actually really like it. Definitely not as good as the Melee Nair, and I miss lasting-hitbox Nair, but I've gotten a decent amount of gimps and edgeguards with nair. A lot of times, it knocks opponents away at a semi-spike angle, which was a nice surprise
Fair: Yeah this is pretty solid. Easy to combo into, easy to land all the hits.
Bair: Good kill move, kinda hard to sweetspot, but it seems a bit stronger than the Brawl version.
Uair: another solid aerial, I find myself using Fair more, but I never used Uair much before, so maybe I just need to get in the habit of using it more.
Dair: Yeah a bit weird with the sourspot, but I hit with the sweetspot 95% of the time, so I rarely notice a difference compared to Brawl's version. When I do hit with the sourspot, it's usually over land, so I haven't gotten punished, but still an odd change.
Zair: I like the multiple hitboxes, but it seems a bit shorter than the Brawl and PM versions. Not sure how I feel about it yet.
Neutral B: Yes much improved. Probably my #1 or #2 killing move. Much better than Brawls
Side B: Ugh
Down B: Ugh
Up B: Pretty good, I've killed with it a few times, but on For Glory FD maps, it seems super unsafe. Small improvement over Brawl up B

Overall, I hold the opinion that she's a bit better than the Brawl version, but not anywhere near Melee or PM levels. Still fun to play as though, and in the end, I'm less frustrated playing her in Smash4 than I was in Brawl.

Upsmash I find to be exclusively to punish poor approaches on ledge maps.

I've been musing that samus' lower profile when using the dsmash avoids a few moves, but I haven't gone into the lab on that one yet.

 

[NinjaWaddleDee]

The worst matchups for me online when I play Samus: Greninja, Sheik, ZSS, and (sometimes) Little Mac. I just get rushed and comboed to ****. I've never won to a Greninja or Sheik player, and I'm just so freaking tired of seeing them pop up.

 

[the.tok]

ZSS is hard for me too... Her versatile recovery is a pain, and she's fast

Little Mac I find actually not so bad. He's quite light and once he's in the air, you can put a lot of pressure on him

 

[NinjaWaddleDee]

ZSS is hard for me too... Her versatile recovery is a pain, and she's fast

Little Mac I find actually not so bad. He's quite light and once he's in the air, you can put a lot of pressure on him

Honestly, as a Metroid fan, it kind of ticks me off that Zero Suit Samus is actually a better character than Armored Samus. I mean c'mon, do I REALLY have to play ZSS to get my playable Samus victories?

 

[kro_]

I've used Samus a lot in for glory recently. I'm a novice with her, but I'll just say a few things I've noticed.

Jab isn't that good, first one can be used to disrupt opponents, second one has good range and can hit enemies above you, but not very reliable.

Down smash, I love it. Pretty quick, decent damage, and great for smacking away rollers. Gives you good time to charge your arm cannon. Spot dodge to down smash works well on slower characters (especially ganondorf and dong)

Down tilt has nice range, and I've found it very good to use against Little Mac. Gets your opponents high in the air for those uair/screw attack follow-ups

Charge shot is great, you can charge for just a slight moment and shield into grab, kills at about 100%. Excellent to use against opponents about to land on the ground if they have used their second jump. If they don't up b, they'll get hit, and it they up b, free sliding up smash. Up smash works really well to me, kills at something over 100%. I recommend fully charging it whenever you have an opening, and throw out non-fully charged shots against rushing enemies instead of shielding to mix things up a little.

Side B is alright, does okay damage. Super missile followed by charge shot will break full shield if they don't perfect shield. You can pull this off at least once during a match against an inexperienced player or someone who spams shield a lot. Also good off-stage, scares people away from the ledge making it easier to up b.

Dash attack is great, love that one too. A little more start-up than Falcon's, but more range. Pops enemies into the air for free uair followed by screw attack if you time it right. Samus is floaty, so it's easy to stay in the air and keep on attacking, especially with bombs if your opponent jumps away. Up B can kill at 90% if you get your enemy high enough.

Nair is also nerfed, but can be used to get out of combos. I've played a lot of matches against a Link, and every time he tried to follow up his attacks, I'd just throw out a nair and I was safe.

 

[GdspdUblkprzdnt]

I've used Samus a lot in for glory recently. I'm a novice with her, but I'll just say a few things I've noticed.

Jab isn't that good, first one can be used to disrupt opponents, second one has good range and can hit enemies above you, but not very reliable.

Down smash, I love it. Pretty quick, decent damage, and great for smacking away rollers. Gives you good time to charge your arm cannon. Spot dodge to down smash works well on slower characters (especially ganondorf and dong)

Down tilt has nice range, and I've found it very good to use against Little Mac. Gets your opponents high in the air for those uair/screw attack follow-ups

Charge shot is great, you can charge for just a slight moment and shield into grab, kills at about 100%. Excellent to use against opponents about to land on the ground if they have used their second jump. If they don't up b, they'll get hit, and it they up b, free sliding up smash. Up smash works really well to me, kills at something over 100%. I recommend fully charging it whenever you have an opening, and throw out non-fully charged shots against rushing enemies instead of shielding to mix things up a little.

Side B is alright, does okay damage. Super missile followed by charge shot will break full shield if they don't perfect shield. You can pull this off at least once during a match against an inexperienced player or someone who spams shield a lot. Also good off-stage, scares people away from the ledge making it easier to up b.

Dash attack is great, love that one too. A little more start-up than Falcon's, but more range. Pops enemies into the air for free uair followed by screw attack if you time it right. Samus is floaty, so it's easy to stay in the air and keep on attacking, especially with bombs if your opponent jumps away. Up B can kill at 90% if you get your enemy high enough.

Nair is also nerfed, but can be used to get out of combos. I've played a lot of matches against a Link, and every time he tried to follow up his attacks, I'd just throw out a nair and I was safe.

Super missile to charge shot breaks shields? Do all characters have the same shield now or is it only certain characters? This seems like a big deal if it's true.

 

[kro_]

I've done it on at least Mega Man, Little Mac, Ganondorf online, can't recall everyone, but I'm willing to experiment a little with someone tomorrow.

 

[Savez]

I've done it on at least Mega Man, Little Mac, Ganondorf online, can't recall everyone, but I'm willing to experiment a little with someone tomorrow.

I've found that not everyones shield break with that combo if they have a fresh shield otherwise it's very likely they'll get hit with at least 1 of the 2 projectiles if they don't want their shield broken.

Anyway I need to up-b a lot more since 75% of my kills are charge shots and bairs on and off the stage. I also didn't know uair could kill and just used it to rack up %.

 

[G.D.]

I've been tentatively maining Samus, since they destroyed my main from Brawl. While she can do well if not great against the majority of the cast, she seemingly does particularly poorly against a select range of aggressive fighters--characters who have long reach, fast approaches, recoveries which make it particularly difficult to land her slow spike, and overall provide little room for the relatively slow Samus to get in her zone.

Namely, this includes ZSS, Sheik, and to a lesser extent Greninja, possibly among others. People are already calling ZSS and Sheik top-tier material. Samus's worst matchups are against the top tiers. That basically means she will have a hard time winning tournaments, and thus be fated lower in the tiers, or at least always lower than those two.

As half the posters so far have said: mid-tier at best. That will be the fate of Samus, unless something significantly shakes up the new metagame that is rapidly forming.

 

[Sarix]

I've been tentatively maining Samus, since they destroyed my main from Brawl. While she can do well if not great against the majority of the cast, she seemingly does particularly poorly against a select range of aggressive fighters--characters who have long reach, fast approaches, recoveries which make it particularly difficult to land her slow spike, and overall provide little room for the relatively slow Samus to get in her zone.

...

As half the posters so far have said: mid-tier at best. That will be the fate of Samus, unless something significantly shakes up the new metagame that is rapidly forming.

Yeah I've noticed that high mobility and pressure characters are pretty bad MUs for Samus myself when I do For Glory.

The trade off of weaker projectiles bar maybe Charge Shot for stronger normals leaves her feeling more average rather than weak overall. From what I've tested, she doesn't have a huge selection of combos but the ones she has seem to stay consistent into the higher percentages.

Instead of a projectile heavy style, I've personally been working with a hybrid zoner/rushdown style to make the best of her improved normals.

If customs become commonplace legal though I feel she becomes a more above average character since she can turn her charge shot and missiles into lingering hitboxes that give many new options.

 

[Peligrad]

I think Samus is easily in the top 10.

Missle spamming is fairly hard for many characters to deal with.
She has strong recovery
She has a great spike down
She has a fast missle that deals 25% at full charge (great finisher)
Her grab animation is as long a ever and has been sped up substantially compared to previous games
Her air grab is a nice long range poke that few other air attacks can out range
Her down A sweeping kick is a very reliable melee range move.

Her only real downside is that her dodges are a bit slow.

I've been doing a lot of spectating online and see Samus players winning the majority of their matches. And she's one of my best 2 characters at the moment as well.

Many of the fast characters rely on dash attacks as a main closer/damage source. You can grab people out of most gap closers. Between her ability to do that and how fast her missle spam is, she has a pretty solid base for her gameplay.