So is Roy as good as Marth now?

[menotyou135]

That's my main question really. Is Roy on the same level of Marth now, or does he still come up short like melee? I just picked up project M as a melee/brawl marth main, and I do about equal with both so far.

-If I want to win more, should I focus on marth?
-What are the main advantages Roy has over Marth?
-What are the disadvantages?
-How does Roy perform in a matchup with Marth?
-Are there any matchups that are better to play as Roy that Marth?
-Are there any matchups that are better to play as Marth than Roy?
-How should I go about stage selection differently with Roy?
-Does Roy have any unique chaingrabs marth doesn't? (and vice versa)
-Which one is better at aggressive play and which one is more passive?
-Is it a good idea to main both and just switch between the two depending on the matchup?
-What other differences are significant between the two that I should know about?

 

[XraidenX]

-I dunno about the first question
-From my experience, Roy easier to combo with than Marth and has more K.O. moves
-Roy's recovery is terrible compared to Marth's, Roy's spacing is kinda dangerous since his sword is most powerful toward the center of the blade, meaning you usually have to be up-close to get strong hits
-In Melee, Roy's MU with Marth was 30:70, Marth's favor, but Roy has improved compared to Melee. I believe that this MU can go either way and really depends on how you play
-In Project M, it's hard to say, but Marth probably has a lot better MU's than Roy
-The first MU that comes to mind here would definitely be Roy vs Sheik. In Melee the MU was 10:90 Sheik's favor. Although, one way to counter Sheik with Roy/Marth is to keep her above you, so against Sheik, just chose stages with platforms.
-I try to stick to stages with small K.O. zones like Yoshi Story. It's not only small but it has platforms which is something Roy uses excellently.
-No, they're the same.
-Roy tends to be more aggressive since his sword's center is where sweetspots are. Sometimes there are aggressive Marths, I am one of them, but like I said Roy's tend to be more aggressive, but only cuz they have to.
-If you switched based off of MU's i don't believe you'd be using Roy very often. Also, it can be hard to adapt to their completely different spacings.
-Aside from their spacing, I'd say that their moves, while most are the same, do different things. Roy's D-tilt sends his opponent upwards rather than away like Marth's. Roy's U-smash is better at K.O.'ing and I've learned how to use it to combo as well as Meteor Smash my opponents. Marth's D-air spikes while Roy's D-air Meteor Smashes, but Roy's D-air in my experience can be more useful than Marth's. Roy's B-air is stronger. That's all I can think of, but if I find more I'll be sure to post them.
Well, I hope this helps you decide, but I probably missed some stuff

 

[Kirito-]

Can't really answer the first question without being biased towards my favorite princess, Marth.

1: Since you've been playing Marth in melee and Brawl, sticking with Marth will be better since you just started. Marth is pretty much the same as he was in melee with a couple of small changes so you won't have to adjust much compared to some of the other melee vets. If you're a more aggressive Marth, then try out Roy, maybe his playstyle will suit you more.

2: Roy's main advantages are his increased kill potential, superior dancing blade (it's actually very useful), and his combo game.

3: His disadvantages are his lackluster recovery, weaker zoning, and being heavier than Marth.

4: Roy in a MU against Marth is pretty even but I would say it is slightly in Marth's favor. This might just be my bias again but it is 55-45 Marth or 60-40 Marth imo.

5: Roy has a much better MU against DK, Bowser, Ganon, and those he can easily get in on. Other than that, his MU are somewhat like Marth's from my experience. He suffers against characters that can effectively play keep away, or have a shine.

6: Marth is better against Fox, Falco, Mewtwo (though it's still in M2's favor), ZSS, Mario, and others. Again, this might just be my bias or the fact that I play Marth more than I play Roy (slightly).

7: Marth likes stages with platforms so he can tipper but with Roy, I like to pick slightly smaller stages with few platforms so my opponent can't run away. Stages like PS2, and Green Hill Zone are good.

8: No Roy does not, and Roy can't do his Fthrow links quite like Marth can.

9: Roy is better aggressive, Marth is more passive.

10: That's what I do and so far it's been working for me You will have to get used to there individual play styles. Don't expect to be good with Roy, because you're good with Marth.

11: Dancing Blade is actually a viable move and is great in some situations. Dtilt can set up for kills with bair and can combo into other aerials. I like to Dtilt -> Dair -> tech chase -> Fsmash or Dtilt. Nair is a great move to approach. Roy''s Usmash pulls opponents in, and is a k.o move. Ftilt has insane range. Other than that, you should watch some of Sethlon's sets. His Roy is phenomenal.

Off topic but, Yuno is awesome :]

 

[Binary Clone]

The biggest difference that the two above haven't covered is offstage game. It's been said that Roy's recovery is worse than Marth's, which is obvious, but Marth can do much more offstage than Roy can, which really contributes to his edgeguarding and overall utility.

Because he's heavier, Roy tends to be combo'd harder than Marth, but he also combos a little harder. His downsmash, upsmash, and nair are much better, and his ftilt is amazing for spacing. His grab range is slightly less, but he can kill more easily and reliably than Marth. Gimping and edgeguarding isn't as good with Roy though. Also, Roy's dair is a meteor smash, not a spike.

 

[InfinityCollision]

Roy has a much better MU against DK

Dunno if I agree with that. DK is one of Roy's worst matchups. Not that it's a great matchup for Marth either...

Also Roy is lighter than Marth, he just falls faster.

Marth can do much more offstage than Roy can, which really contributes to his edgeguarding and overall utility.

This is the reason I chose to focus on Marth over Roy. I could go either way in terms of their onstage game (prefer Marth's mobility, grab game, aesthetics, but Roy's pressure and combos), but the near-lack of an offstage game is anathema to me after years of playing Marth, Peach, Mewtwo, etc.

 

[Binary Clone]

Sethlon actually made a post about this yesterday on Facebook:

Roy definitely has more tools for finishing off an opponent at reasonably high percents (several set ups into bair, sweetspot ftilt, flareblade, fsmash, dsmash and DED vs Marth's fsmash, dair and uptilt)...what Marth loses in versatility he makes up in explosiveness though IMO. Ken combos and other spike set ups potentially end stocks at any percent, and while Marth and Roy fsmash can get random kills at similarly low percents, Marth's sweetspot being at the tip makes it more likely for you to counterhit your opponent when they're not expecting it. Overall they play really differently, with Roy trying to work his way in for his damage and marth trying to keep his opponent at bay instead. Roy might benefit more from the current meta of characters surviving to a high percent, but its hard to say.

I think they'll both get a pretty significant improvement following the recovery nerfs. Marth relies on his gimps a more, but it'll help Roy as well (who sometimes still has a hard time finishing his opponents off, despite his various kill moves).

As for a direct Roy v Marth; I think its an approximately even matchup. Marth gets better rewards from catching Roy trying to butt his way in, but Marth is also a great combo weight for Roy once he is in there. Both characters can sort of zone eachother out with dtilts, but both dtilts are beaten by the other's fsmashes, etc. I think this match up is really awesome, honestly.

 

[Henry Stickmin]

The biggest difference that the two above haven't covered is offstage game. It's been said that Roy's recovery is worse than Marth's, which is obvious, but Marth can do much more offstage than Roy can, which really contributes to his edgeguarding and overall utility.

Because he's heavier, Roy tends to be combo'd harder than Marth, but he also combos a little harder. His downsmash, upsmash, and nair are much better, and his ftilt is amazing for spacing. His grab range is slightly less, but he can kill more easily and reliably than Marth. Gimping and edgeguarding isn't as good with Roy though. Also, Roy's dair is a meteor smash, not a spike.

Roy is lighter than Marth.

 

[Henry Stickmin]

Can't really answer the first question without being biased towards my favorite princess, Marth.

1: Since you've been playing Marth in melee and Brawl, sticking with Marth will be better since you just started. Marth is pretty much the same as he was in melee with a couple of small changes so you won't have to adjust much compared to some of the other melee vets. If you're a more aggressive Marth, then try out Roy, maybe his playstyle will suit you more.

2: Roy's main advantages are his increased kill potential, superior dancing blade (it's actually very useful), and his combo game.

3: His disadvantages are his lackluster recovery, weaker zoning, and being heavier than Marth.

4: Roy in a MU against Marth is pretty even but I would say it is slightly in Marth's favor. This might just be my bias again but it is 55-45 Marth or 60-40 Marth imo.

5: Roy has a much better MU against DK, Bowser, Ganon, and those he can easily get in on. Other than that, his MU are somewhat like Marth's from my experience. He suffers against characters that can effectively play keep away, or have a shine.

6: Marth is better against Fox, Falco, Mewtwo (though it's still in M2's favor), ZSS, Mario, and others. Again, this might just be my bias or the fact that I play Marth more than I play Roy (slightly).

7: Marth likes stages with platforms so he can tipper but with Roy, I like to pick slightly smaller stages with few platforms so my opponent can't run away. Stages like PS2, and Green Hill Zone are good.

8: No Roy does not, and Roy can't do his Fthrow links quite like Marth can.

9: Roy is better aggressive, Marth is more passive.

10: That's what I do and so far it's been working for me You will have to get used to there individual play styles. Don't expect to be good with Roy, because you're good with Marth.

11: Dancing Blade is actually a viable move and is great in some situations. Dtilt can set up for kills with bair and can combo into other aerials. I like to Dtilt -> Dair -> tech chase -> Fsmash or Dtilt. Nair is a great move to approach. Roy''s Usmash pulls opponents in, and is a k.o move. Ftilt has insane range. Other than that, you should watch some of Sethlon's sets. His Roy is phenomenal.

Off topic but, Yuno is awesome :]

Roy is lighter than Marth.

 

[Binary Clone]

Roy is lighter than Marth.

Uhh, necro much? We're a couple patches beyond when this post was made, dude.

I meant that Roy has a higher fallspeed than Marth, which affect how easy he is to get comboed.

 

[Mc.Rad]

The biggest difference that the two above haven't covered is offstage game. It's been said that Roy's recovery is worse than Marth's, which is obvious, but Marth can do much more offstage than Roy can, which really contributes to his edgeguarding and overall utility.

Because he's heavier, Roy tends to be combo'd harder than Marth, but he also combos a little harder. His downsmash, upsmash, and nair are much better, and his ftilt is amazing for spacing. His grab range is slightly less, but he can kill more easily and reliably than Marth. Gimping and edgeguarding isn't as good with Roy though. Also, Roy's dair is a meteor smash, not a spike.

Also Roy's counter is marginally better than Marth's. Roy's get's 1.1X damage of the % of damage the move countered, While Marth's get's only 7% on all moves. It's a shame though, because a Multiplier for Marth would be so cool...