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So I want to main Bowser

Schematic

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
4
Ouch man yea you got it bad on both fronts cause:

1. Many Bowsers including DJ Nintendo think Peach is by far his worst MU (although Uptilt and Upair kill early)
2. If it's the same person I watched in the old days.....Iori has a pretty amazing Bowser, so he's no doubt very familiar with how to completely pick one apart.

Bowser is a very fun character to play, but you have to realize that once the other person even mildly knows the MU it's pretty much over before it starts no matter how good you are. He's got one of the best OoS options, he has an alright Fair and Nair which have a bit of disjoint, Bair has a good angle but it's easy to avoid and counter. His SS grab is cool but landing it on a good player that is familiar with it's spacing is near impossible since it's kind of slow and telegraphed. But all those good thing I listed become weaknesses when someone figures Bowser out; add onto that his other initial weaknesses - His jump takes 9 frames to leave the ground, his moves are all much slower comparatively, he's a massive target that's easy to combo, lots of land lag, his recovery is easy to gimp, less range and speed than Ganon AND less knockback....

He can do well on a local/regional level, but it's mostly attributed to MU ignorance. It's a lost cause on a National level. If you main him you'd have to pick up another character for all the near unwinnable MUs he's got.

And If you still want to get better and are looking for tips watch any of the DJ Nintendo matches, David the Bowser Guy has gotten much better, Iori's old Bowser was really good, Eikelmann's Bowser is also superb. All are pretty unique but utilize the same strengths of Bowser (retreating Up-B > ledge, Dash or Waveland to edge > teeter Up-b ledge grab, <100 ledge attack spacing, SHFFL Fairs, F-tilts, SS grab combos, etc)
 
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A Stuffy Muffin

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 15, 2015
Messages
44
don't main bowser until you've fully learned how to play the game.
Eikelmann ain't wrong.

Don't totally give up on picking up the character but do what you can to learn more. Watch a bunch of matches in your free time, and not just of characters you're interested in. Melee's an unforgiving game that takes patience and practice and you gotta build from the ground up if you wanna get good.

As far as Bowser specific stuff goes, practice up b out of shield. In almost all respects it's your strongest tool. Practice up b to the ledge. This is a practice known as Fortress Hogging and is one of Boozer's fastest ways to take ledge. Also, learn to L-cancel--that's really gonna be key for not getting punished whenever you land.

Some Bowser specific vids to get you hype/teach you some stuff:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9NaIYFnVgY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-na5cfbaP74

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xeFgyb71YSM


Other vids to get your blood pumping
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv74JXJBFwk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzcIOB8aRbk

There's obviously a lot, those are just a select few off the top of my head.

I'm not really an expert when it comes to this stuff but please feel free to contact me here or on Twitter with any questions (@MistahRappa).
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
8,413
Location
College Park, MD
At Kumite, I played in the melee tournament, and my round 1 was against Iori(video below). I'd like to main Bowser, and need to know what areas to work on specifically.

Here's the video, and yes, I know, that Falco is awful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHEcqAfPUvs
It's hard to give you pointers on the Peach matchup because it is so terrible for Bowser. He has no good answers to turnips, except to dodge them. If she wants to, Peach can camp you to time and laugh at your attempts to break through her hitboxes with any of your own aerials or ground attacks. You need to have good mobility on the ground and in the air to stand a chance.

Stop doing grounded moves, especially ones as laggy as d-smash. You were really just doing smash and dash attacks for the majority of game one. If you think you can beat any competitive player (much less a talented one like Iori) with such a strategy, time to go back to the drawing board.

Bowser's run speed is actually solid considering he's a low tier. This is one aspect of the character that you must accentuate. Dash into shield and dash into retreating SH fair are your bread and butter neutral game. The occasional f-tilt mix-up can be a good way to stuff approaches if you don't think your opponent will keep falling for up-b out of shield. Speaking of up-b out of shield, you keep doing attacks and don't seem to have confidence in your out of shield game. Up-b out of shield is one of the best things about Bowser, so you should probably try it a couple of times to see if your opponent can get around it.
 

The Young Izzy Iz

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
146
Location
Charleston, SC
don't main bowser until you've fully learned how to play the game.
Absolutely this. Melee is a game where playing lower tiered characters means that your fundamentals have to be superb and your understanding of game mechanics needs to be above average. When you and an opponent square off in neutral you both have a limited number of options for approaching, reacting, setting up, etc. Playing a character like Bowser means that you're basically cutting those options in half. It isn't undoable, you just have to understand that you're going to be making up that difference with things like: better spacing, better DI/SDI, faster reactions, better options off ledge, etc.

The best of luck, love for the low tier struggles.
 

SuperShus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
267
Location
MD/VA
Slippi.gg
East#694
Just to point out something no one else has said, jiggs is probably the most precise match up for spacies at lower levels because jiggs punish on low level players mistakes are... death. Bad DI or a read DJ can be 3 bairs to death, and no di on a uthrow can be death depending on stage position.

Also, everyone knows fox/falco the best, out of all matchups generally. Since knowing the matchups is ...like more than half the battle, don't casually pick a spacie because they're 'top tier'.

What makes a character higher on the tier list is basically options - are those options safe or not safe. You might know whatever facts about whatever high tier character, but if you don't know how to cover the options of your opponents, or when you'll be able to do what, you might as well be playing a lower tier character.

Obviously the peak potential of all characters are different - but we aren't maxed out at the potential of characters, so you have to get to the very top level of play before that becomes an issue.

The best mewtwo ever vs Armada in his prime at genesis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltK9sfN2xUE
The best mewtwo ever vs the rusty PC Chris
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltK9sfN2xUE

You see what I mean?
 

Эикельманн [РУС]

Banned via Administration
Joined
Jul 17, 2009
Messages
5,263
Location
Orlando/Владивосток
i also stress only maining him once you've fully learned to play the game because by that point, you might have decided that maining a bottom tier wasn't for you in the first place, and so you might hate yourself for having put so much time into the character.

in the situation that you've both been playing for quite a few years and that you understand the game on a competitive level to a good degree, you can more adequately decide for yourself if a character like bowser is really the character you want to invest the majority of your time into or not.

idk why i'm taking this thread seriously because you'd quit bowser either way, but for anyone reading this that actually has pondered this scenario, well there you go lol

low tiers aren't for everyone and a large percent of people give up on playing characters like bowser because of it's futility/difficulty in a competitive environment.
 

SuperShus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
267
Location
MD/VA
Slippi.gg
East#694
Eikelmann, I care - lol

I've been playing Fox for a few years and recently I have begun rapidly studying and playing more Mewtwo.
I just learned that you used to play Mewtwo when I saw a post on the Mewtwo boards where you asked to have a video of you studied, and Taj complemented your fundamentals.
You said in that post that you used to main Ganon - so I guess we all know what happened after a short while... XD


I don't really think I've fully learned to play the game though, and I'm continuing to practice with Fox, and I can't see myself playing a tournament match as Mewtwo for many moons.



Also that very first paragraph in your most recent post happens to be my roommate who switched from Link to Falco.
So I have seen that first hand, and it sucks.

My advice is: decide what your smash goal is and stick to it. If it's be the best, pick a character who's won a major. Fox, Falco, Marth, Jiggs, Shiek, Peach. If you have a more specific goal - to style in a certain way, or push a certain character, do that.
Personally I don't think Bowser is great character to push because he's been pushed before - so the only thing you really get out of it is a party trick. Being good with Bowser for a laugh is kind of the wrong way about it.
Pick a character who has some kind of promise - someone who's performed very well within the last few years. Yoshi and Pikachu would be good examples, though pika isn't very low tier. Maybe not a character who's already done well, but someone who could. A character with tech that's never been perfected or executed regularly.
But to be honest if you're hoping you'll discover that this character belongs with Fox, or even just falcon ICs Pika and Ganon... you're likely to be disappointed.

tl;dr
If you want to be the best at smash, don't pick a low tier. If you wanna invest a bunch of time into a party trick, go ahead- but going so far down the list as bowser is probably a bad idea. Hell, you're probably better off with pichu. :p
 

ChivalRuse

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 13, 2007
Messages
8,413
Location
College Park, MD
If you want to main a low tier, then you'd better have some serious resolve. If people pressuring to you to change mains to a higher tier rattles you, then you probably don't have the mental stamina/fortitude that you will need.
 

the muted smasher

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
409
Always always always have something glass to break when someone calls You an idiot and starts mocking You for playing a bottom tier.

I've been booed far more as pichu than as ice climbers and somehow cheered more for my ics than my pichu
 

the muted smasher

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
409
It has happened a lot I've had people openly mock me while playing laughing making the pichu die sounds after I asked him to leave 3 times. Try doing anything in a terrible match-up will someone mocking You're every move.
 

4nonymous

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jun 19, 2015
Messages
53
It has happened a lot I've had people openly mock me while playing laughing making the pichu die sounds after I asked him to leave 3 times. Try doing anything in a terrible match-up will someone mocking You're every move.
Stop capitalizing any mix of the word ''you'' and capitalize proper nouns.
It's annoying and looks unprofessional.
-Local grammar looser

Anyways what Eikelmann says. Bowser is hard. Play DK or something.
 
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Wreckarooni

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
197
Location
Midwest
I like how Pichu "mains" always come on other character boards and try and derail the conversation to Pichu. Guess it's cause their boards are so dead and redundant.
 

SuperShus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
267
Location
MD/VA
Slippi.gg
East#694
OP hasn't replied even once.

Ten bucks says he logged on made 3 posts, forgot, and will quit playing bowser before he logs on again.
 

4nonymous

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jun 19, 2015
Messages
53


In all seriousness though, this thread has become severely de-railed and I'm not sure if the OP is even still on Smashboards.
I suggest playing a charcter that feels and weighs like Bowser, get good with him, and then try to use Boozer.
examplz:
DK
Ganon
 

Gsman0163

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
5
I've been working on my Bowser since then and its gotten better, but the matchups thing is still one of the harder bits to master. As far as learning the game better, I've been working on picking up fox as a secondary.

EDIT: As to the forgetting the pasword bit, I just am working 2 jobs and have a newborn, so I don't have a whole lot of time to get on smashboards.
 
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The Young Izzy Iz

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
146
Location
Charleston, SC
@ G Gsman0163

If you really want an easy character to learn the game with you can start on Marth and easily progress other places. My own progression was something like Samus (noob me) -> Marth (learning competitive play) -> Falco (mastering advanced techniques/fingers speeding up for tech skill) -> Marth/Sheik/Samus (mastering the characters themselves)

Where you start is really no indication of where you're going to end up and learning with some characters is a lot easier than others.
 

Wreckarooni

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 15, 2015
Messages
197
Location
Midwest
I've been working on my Bowser since then and its gotten better, but the matchups thing is still one of the harder bits to master. As far as learning the game better, I've been working on picking up fox as a secondary.

EDIT: As to the forgetting the pasword bit, I just am working 2 jobs and have a newborn, so I don't have a whole lot of time to get on smashboards.
real life johns
 
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SuperShus

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
267
Location
MD/VA
Slippi.gg
East#694
If you're going to play fox, just play fox imo. You'll probably have more fun once you get past the point where you're super bad and it matters 0 the tier character you're playing. Fox is so fast and has so many options, it's a rush to play him right.
 

4nonymous

Banned via Warnings
Joined
Jun 19, 2015
Messages
53
I've been working on my Bowser since then and its gotten better, but the matchups thing is still one of the harder bits to master. As far as learning the game better, I've been working on picking up fox as a secondary.

EDIT: As to the forgetting the pasword bit, I just am working 2 jobs and have a newborn, so I don't have a whole lot of time to get on smashboards.
ah dude totally understandable

also fox secondary? inb4 dj nintendo


Honestly, I really don't think low tier mains should have Top 12 chars as their secondary. They fancy them more and end up maining them because they perform better.
rip
 

Gsman0163

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 6, 2014
Messages
5
Other than Kumite, I've been mostly playing locals anyway when I've had time(read: not much), and honestly, Fox is not as much fun for me as Bowser is. The reason I'm picking him up is because I needed a secondary and its a character that theres a few people to teach me the ropes/matchups. Also theres about 20 Fox mains in my city, and I find that learning a deck in MTG helps to play against it, so I figure the same logic should apply here. I'll probably learn Fox then drop him once I've got the basics down. The other characters I enjoy playing are Ness and Captain Falcon. As to improving my Bowser, I'll be uploading videos more recent(one of which is a mirror) to show improvement and see if theres anything I need to work on improving specifically.
 
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