So...I have ranked all the different Uairs into a tier list

[MERPIS]

What's this mean? Characters who can convert into combos easiest?

The down tilt list cannot be classified by mere endlag and start up, otherwise you'd have useless ones like Wario's dtilt really high up, while others like cloud's so much lower. Dtilts are primarily made to be combo starters, and so I kinda made a tweak to the formula for dtilts, this time I judged their dtilts based on how well and how easily they combo, ones that cannot combo well but other niches are in the kill/pressure area, the useless ones are, well, useless.

 

[MarioManTAW]

The down tilt list cannot be classified by mere endlag and start up, otherwise you'd have useless ones like Wario's dtilt really high up, while others like cloud's so much lower. Dtilts are primarily made to be combo starters, and so I kinda made a tweak to the formula for dtilts, this time I judged their dtilts based on how well and how easily they combo, ones that cannot combo well but other niches are in the kill/pressure area, the useless ones are, well, useless.

You never said in your original post that that was about down-tilts. (I deduced that it might have been, but you never said).

 

[WiFi]

Fox's D-tilt isn't that good. It belongs in the tier with Kirby and ROB. In order to most of the useful things, you need to get the tipper on D-tilt, which is easier said than done. His D-tilt is also completely outclassed by his Up-tilt.

 

[J0eyboi]

View attachment 139171
Le double posty ( ͡◉ ͜ʖ ͡◉)

Ike's dtilt is at least a decent starter, and Puff and Palutena's dtilts are as slow or slower to start up than Shulk's, not much less laggy (1 frame less endlag on Puff's, 5 on Palutena's, which is still 8 frames slower overall), and have much less range. Puff's should definitely be useless tier, as should Palutena's.

 

[WiFi]

Ike's D-tilt should at least be C-tier.

 

[Magnemite]

so:

cloud's dtilt is as good of a combo starter as bayo's

diddy's fair is as good as luigi's, palutena's, lucario's, and ike's

falco's bair isn't a top 15 bair and is as good as pac-man's mewtwo's, bowser's and toon link's

shulk has one of the 15 worst bairs in the game

learning tons of new things today. good meme thread

 

[WiFi]

so:

cloud's dtilt is as good of a combo starter as bayo's

diddy's fair is as good as luigi's, palutena's, lucario's, and ike's

falco's bair isn't a top 15 bair and is as good as pac-man's mewtwo's, bowser's and toon link's

shulk has one of the 15 worst bairs in the game

learning tons of new things today. good meme thread

Falco's Bair IS a top 15 Bair. It's basically a slightly smaller version of DK's Bair and is Falco's best move. (Wait, I misread your comment again, crap. Nevermind, I agree with you. Here's something valuable; don't e sarcastic one the internet. I just wasted my time ranting about this.)

As for Diddy, he has the third best Fair in the game, only behind Mewtwo and Sheik. It comes out Frame 6, reaches as far as Marth's Fair, and sends opponents at the Sakurai Angle, which is a slight semi-spike. Overall, Diddy's Fair is better than Luigi's, Palutena's, Ike's, and Lucario's Fairs combined. Oh, it also deals 10%, which is disproportionately much considering how fast it is. I mean, SH Fair is what makes Diddy pretty good in the air. (Diddy is still much better played on the ground though). Palutena's fair is garbage though, as is Ike's. Ike's Nair is far better than his Fair, and Palutena's Fair is only good when sweetspotted.

Cloud's D-tilt isn't good aside from granting invincibility on his legs, it doesn't combo, but rather puts opponents into a 50-50 situation above him, which is pretty good, but Bayonetta's D-tilt combos into Witch Twist, ABK, Fair, Nair, Uair, another D-tilt, Up-tilt, Jab, and her ladder combos. It also has a very low FAF, is easily spammable, is a disjoint, and is the best move for Bullet Arts, dealing 10% in Bullets. (Wait, you're saying Cloud's D-tilt is worse than Bayonetta's, right? If so, than nevermind what I just said. I hate internet sarcasm.)

 

[Magnemite]

yeah I was just sarcastically pointing out how dumb some of the things in these lists are. even ignoring how awful his gnw nair / uair placements are (these are easily some of the furthest ones from where they should be), there’s so much on all of these that’s just ludicrous, even for common characters. like seriously find me one decent player who thinks luigi’s fair is as good as diddy’s

normally i wouldn’t care too much, but the person running this thread is being very condescending for someone who clearly doesn’t know anything about a lot of the moves he’s trying to rank (he even admits this!)

 

[MrGameguycolor]

You know what, I'm just gonna pull a salt and say that its your opinion m8. I think it's hot trash you think its passable, lets just agree to disagree since we're over here arguing about fricking doctor mario's dash attack, of all characters!

LOL.
It's one Doc's few moves that's straight up better then Mario's since it actually starts a combo and is decent for resetting landings.
Compare to Mario's which does nothing useful... (minus some rare jank by the ledge)

Also Nair is good combo breaker, Out of shield option and is overall a decent tool out of short hop...
So I'm pretty sure it's got higher standards over then Mac or Kirby's.

Regardless, could I give my input?

 

[Smartz]

I think “Butt” pretty much sums up all of Little Mac’s aerials ngl

 

[MERPIS]

Back, gonna post dairs now

 

[Applebutter61]

HAHAHAHA OMG Raise the roof! Did you watch Introspecktive's video on Cloud (and his UAir) on youtube?

 

[MERPIS]

HAHAHAHA OMG Raise the roof! Did you watch Introspecktive's video on Cloud (and his UAir) on youtube?

Possibly

 

[MercuryPenny]

>mario's dair
>amazing
>falcon's dair
>mediocre

omegalul

 

[J0eyboi]

Back, gonna post dairs now

How do you put G&W dair in the same tier as Tink, Shiek, and ZSS?

In what way is Marcina's dair situational?

How the **** is Oli dair "almost useless"?

 

[PURGE THEM LIKE THE]

I agree with you for mr gw. Marcina's is pretty trashy aside from some hyper aggro risky landing and reading recoveries. The frame data just isn't there. Alph's is in the same boat with a smaller hitbox and the ever present issue of having aerials that are pretty much unreflectable projectiles.

Edit: in response to the guy above

 

[J0eyboi]

Alph's is in the same boat with a smaller hitbox and the ever present issue of having aerials that are pretty much unreflectable projectiles.

Except its spike hit is much larger, frame 9, and has no sourspot, on a move that autocancels frame 30. It's much better than the rest of useless tier, hell, it's better than half of "standard spike" tier.

 

[PURGE THEM LIKE THE]

There is a hitbox that doesn't spike, which I would consider a sourspot. I don't see why the autocancel is useful. The fact that it hits below him makes it a bad rising aerial.

 

[MERPIS]

How do you put G&W dair in the same tier as Tink, Shiek, and ZSS?

In what way is Marcina's dair situational?

How the **** is Oli dair "almost useless"?

You seem salty, and wrong

 

[Applebutter61]

Make a down-b tier list.

 

[MERPIS]

Make a down-b tier list.

That might not be too easy

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Make a down-b tier list.

A down-b tier list up for display.
No purchase necessary:

(Salt and Aggression free)

 

[Frihetsanka]

I'm no expert on these characters, but I think you could make a pretty good case for Duck Hunt Dog being in B. I think Jigglypuff should probably be higher than D, seeing how good Rest can be if you get a Sing from the ledge (see: Captain L), or as a punish for a laggy move, or even as a hard read. It should, probably, at least be C-. Bowser being in B seems a bit questionable at higher levels.

I assume it's not ordered within tiers?

 

[Molk]

When used properly Disable essentially functions as a charged smash attack with the frame data of a regular smash attack and can be confirmed into through Nair--->footstool, it does *not* belong in D tier.

 

[TheUndeadReturns]

3 iq 3 iq 3 iq 3 iq 3 iq

 

[Magnemite]

gnw dair lets you move during it and it has only 12 frames of aerial endlag, which gives it tons of utility given gnw's fantastic airspeed and air accel. slowfall dair out of hitstun and normal dair are good as anti-juggling tools because it has a lot of disjoint, kills at reasonable percentages, and is safe and can combo into things if autocancelled. it's also situationally decent at hitting below platforms when trying to land. it's also a reasonably fast (frame 12) and quite strong spike that is very good at punishing ledge regrabs, waiting on ledge for too long, or 2 framing (not the easiest thing in the world but doable). it's also possible to use for edgeguarding because you can recover after using it from ledge height (you need to jump first on some stages) and can combo off of dthrow footstool at the edge to kill at mid percents.

but ok, put it in the same tier as dairs like toon link and sheik's, which are only ever useful for one of these things (spiking people on ledge) and are much worse at it

ps dimensional cape is amazing, it's mk's best recovery move and a great landing option. it can also be used as a callout move that kills pretty early.

 

[Applebutter61]

A down-b tier list up for display.
No purchase necessary:

(Salt and Aggression free)

Nice. Overall, I actually agree with this tier list. However, I would like to think of counters as decent moves, especially Roy's. But everyone knows counters are trash.

Edit: Neutral B tier list next?

 

[MERPIS]

A down-b tier list up for display.
No purchase necessary:

(Salt and Aggression free)

Dude disable is one of the best down b's

Also I'm just gonna slip this in here
We got them neutral Bs now

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Nice. Overall, I actually agree with this tier list. However, I would like to think of counters as decent moves, especially Roy's. But everyone knows counters are trash.

Edit: Neutral B tier list next?

Thank you.
It's a breath of fresh air to actually see someone like a tier list rather then always nitpicking what's "wrong" about it.
*wink wink*

Dude disable is one of the best down b's

If it wasn't that, you'd find something else wrong with it...

 

[MERPIS]

Thank you.
It's a breath of fresh air to actually see someone like a tier list rather then always nitpicking what's "wrong" about it.
*wink wink*


If it wasn't that, you'd find something else wrong with it...

block'd

 

[Frihetsanka]

Some of the neutral B look rather questionable.

Too high: Luigi, Meta Knight, Fox, Cloud*, Mr. Game & Watch, Diddy Kong, Palutena, Falco.

Too low: Duck Hunt, Charizard, arguably King Dedede, Ike (edgeguard tool), Little Mac (KO Punch), Peach (can be used to edgeguard), Lucas.

*Depends a bit if you consider the move in a vacuum or in a practical sense. Limit Blade Beam could very well be B-tier, but it is often outclassed by Limit Cross-Slash, which is S-tier. Luigi in S tier seems waaaay too high, my impression from talking with a Luigi player and from playing against Luigi and Mario is that Mario's fireball is better than Luigi's fireball in general. Luigi should probably be in C or D, I suppose.

 

[J0eyboi]

A down-b tier list up for display.
No purchase necessary:

(Salt and Aggression free)

Not sure how Villager's belongs in B-tier, I think you're underrating Rosa's and Ryu's, and I'm not seeing the reasoning behind Rest being D-tier when Waft is A-tier.

Luigi in S tier seems waaaay too high, my impression from talking with a Luigi player and from playing against Luigi and Mario is that Mario's fireball is better than Luigi's fireball in general. Luigi should probably be in C or D, I suppose.

Besides all its other advantages (and it has plenty, it's basically the only reason Luigi isn't bottom tier), getting hit by Mario's fireball can open you up to Mario's combo game. Getting hit by Luigi's fireball opens you up to Luigi's combo game. It might not be S-tier, but it's better than Mario's.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

It's a breath of fresh air to actually see someone like a tier list rather then always nitpicking what's "wrong" about it.
*wink wink*

Some of the neutral B look rather questionable.

Too high: Luigi, Meta Knight, Fox, Cloud*, Mr. Game & Watch, Diddy Kong, Palutena, Falco.

Too low: Duck Hunt, Charizard, arguably King Dedede, Ike (edgeguard tool), Little Mac (KO Punch), Peach (can be used to edgeguard), Lucas.

Not sure how Villager's belongs in B-tier, I think you're underrating Rosa's and Ryu's, and I'm not seeing the reasoning behind Rest being D-tier when Waft is A-tier.

I guess my message fell on deaf ears...
& people wonder why Smashboards is so unpleasant...


Takes notes.

 

[Frihetsanka]

I guess my message fell on deaf ears...
& people wonder why Smashboards is so unpleasant...

Passive-aggressiveness is arguably ruder than what either of us wrote. In either case, I'd rather have some actual discussion and clarification rather than just accepting what one person says as the truth. This happens with most of such lists, including tier lists and MU charts: People will point out things that seem questionable, not the things that seem accurate.

Would you rather people didn't say anything? As I mentioned, I don't think either me nor J0eyboi were particularily rude in our (slight) criticism of the list.

 

[Applebutter61]

You know, looking at the neutral-b tier list made me realize that neutral-b's are just trash moves in general, lol. I suppose that is why I asked for the down-b tier list first.
Next tier list should be.... f-tilts.

Btw, thanks to you guys for going and taking the time to make these tier lists in the first place. This thread is actually pretty entertaining.

Edit: I just wanna throw in that Eruption makes a decent edgegaurding move when the opponent can't recover above well.

 

[MarioManTAW]

You know, looking at the neutral-b tier list made me realize that neutral-b's are just trash moves in general, lol. I suppose that is why I asked for the down-b tier list first.
Next tier list should be.... f-tilts.

Btw, thanks to you guys for going and taking the time to make these tier lists in the first place. This thread is actually pretty entertaining.

Edit: I just wanna throw in that Eruption makes a decent edgegaurding move when the opponent can't recover above well.

Neutral-B's are bad, but so are most F-tilts lol. The only actually good F-tilt I can think of is Sheik's.

 

[Ordeaux26]

Neutral-B's are bad, but so are most F-tilts lol. The only actually good F-tilt I can think of is Sheik's.

i have never been a big fan of tilts in general but that could just be me

 

[Applebutter61]

i have never been a big fan of tilts in general but that could just be me

Ever watch competitive play, ever?

Neutral-B's are bad, but so are most F-tilts lol. The only actually good F-tilt I can think of is Sheik's.

Perhaps... U-tilt list, then? Yeah, forget the F-tilt tier list XD. Make an U-tilt tier list.

U-tilts:
Fox: S
Mario: S
Marth: A
Falcon: B
Ganon: D

Idk. These are just a few, lol.

 

[MERPIS]

Ever watch competitive play, ever?


Perhaps... U-tilt list, then? Yeah, forget the F-tilt tier list XD. Make an U-tilt tier list.

U-tilts:
Fox: S
Mario: S
Marth: A
Falcon: B
Ganon: D

Idk. These are just a few, lol.

Here we are

Lots of S tiers...

Should I redo my up air tier list?

 

[ARGHETH]

Ike's Utilt should go up. It kills, lasts for a while, and hits grounded and aerial opponents pretty well. At the very least, it's better than Robin's, which should go down.