So, G&W was nerfed

[felipe_9595]

This post may sound a little ****** but,

I am not mad about the Up-B hitting from frame 1 to frame 3 (Sounds reasonable)

But

Why the **** was bucket nerfed.

 

[Rᴏb]

The bucket was ridiculous, the way it works now makes much more sense.

I'm really happy with how G&W turned out, but the new sounds they gave him are atrocious.

 

[Shredagaze]

Can someone explain to me the bucket from 3.02? I honestly forgot. If it's based on the projectiles damage then now it boils down more to matchup then just any projectile.

 

[Metmetm3t]

Can someone explain to me the bucket from 3.02? I honestly forgot. If it's based on the projectiles damage then now it boils down more to matchup then just any projectile.

My old thread is relevant again

http://smashboards.com/threads/buck...to-oil-panic-back-in-action-as-of-3-6.348103/

 

[jtm94]

We're living praise GnW!

 

[Shredagaze]

Ohh I remember now. Thanks for the link!

 

[UltiMario]

I like the current way bucket is better. The characters with fast, weak projectiles were high risk to get punished for absorbing in 3.5 anyways, the only reason you'd do it is because you'd pretty much auto-kill at 2 or 3 charges. But now the huge projectiles like Samus Charge shot are back to being kills at 1 bucket charge, which means that match-ups where G&W had relatively safe opportunities to bucket already got stronger. It's really not a nerf just how it wasn't totally a buff last patch.

Pretty much everything stronger than lasers is still a strong kill move at 2 bucket charges. G&W was in a very good place before the patch, and has stayed in a very good place after. Up Smash IASA and a slightly slower Up-B (in testing, it's still a fantastic escape option) did not break this character in the slightest.

 

[felipe_9595]

Ignore that. The frame 1> 3 nerf makes the Fox matchup imposible, we cant do anything about its pressure

 

[Tuuuuuna]

Ignore that. The frame 1> 3 nerf makes the Fox matchup imposible, we cant do anything about its pressure

Yeah, between that and the bucket changes, the Fox MU is a lot worse for G&W now.

 

[felipe_9595]

Yeah, between that and the bucket changes, the Fox MU is a lot worse for G&W now.

Dropped my first tournaments in 6 months, against a Fox yesterday. Got laser camped and facerolled in shield. I am gonna play 2 or 3 tournaments more and drop the game altogether if it keeps happening. Dropped melee because Fox, may do the same for P:M.

I like the current way bucket is better. The characters with fast, weak projectiles were high risk to get punished for absorbing in 3.5 anyways, the only reason you'd do it is because you'd pretty much auto-kill at 2 or 3 charges. But now the huge projectiles like Samus Charge shot are back to being kills at 1 bucket charge, which means that match-ups where G&W had relatively safe opportunities to bucket already got stronger. It's really not a nerf just how it wasn't totally a buff last patch.

Pretty much everything stronger than lasers is still a strong kill move at 2 bucket charges. G&W was in a very good place before the patch, and has stayed in a very good place after. Up Smash IASA and a slightly slower Up-B (in testing, it's still a fantastic escape option) did not break this character in the slightest.

it didn't break it, but made the Matchup vs Spacies retardedly hard again.

 

[The 9!]

Dropped my first tournaments in 6 months, against a Fox yesterday. Got laser camped and facerolled in shield. I am gonna play 2 or 3 tournaments more and drop the game altogether if it keeps happening. Dropped melee because Fox, may do the same for P:M.



it didn't break it, but made the Matchup vs Spacies retardedly hard again.

I noticed the Falcon matchup is harder now. I believed we had the advantage in that matchup in 3.5 and one of the main reasons was because frame 1 up B got you out of a lot of falcons up-air > knee juggles if the falcon wasn't perfect in his execution. Now the matchup feels a lot closer to even.

 

[jtm94]

GnW actually 0 deaths Fox though so that's a non-issue. We couldn't get anything off of UpB oos against Fox anyways.

Falcon's throws are slightly less free so that's a good thing. We can also 0 death him.

Marth's throws got worse and as our worst MU I think it's a buff.

 

[felipe_9595]

GnW actually 0 deaths Fox though so that's a non-issue. We couldn't get anything off of UpB oos against Fox anyways.

Falcon's throws are slightly less free so that's a good thing. We can also 0 death him.

Marth's throws got worse and as our worst MU I think it's a buff.

In FD, which is a CP, any stage with a paltform denies the 0 do death. And the up b was to escape multishien, we cant now

 

[Metmetm3t]

The fox matchup is hard, but it has absolutely nothing to do with multi-shining. Go practice and get good instead of complaining that the character is over because of two frames.

 

[felipe_9595]

The fox matchup is hard, but it has absolutely nothing to do with multi-shining. Go practice and get good instead of complaining that the character is over because of two frames.

2 frames that makes the differene if you see the frame data. Bucket nerf also makes laser camping a thing again, neutral game is **** vs Fox thanks to that again.

Also, i am completely sure i would destroy you, i am the best player in my region and dropped my first 2 sets in 7 months, vs a Fox precisely. Maybe i am salty about that, but i am incredible annoyed that i have to face the exact same problems i had in Melee with G&W in this game again.

 

[jtm94]

You can CG spacies below platforms into a charged fsmash.

 

[felipe_9595]

You can CG spacies below platforms into a charged fsmash.

Still not a 0 to death by any means, just DI towards a platform, then dont Di at all.

 

[EmptySky00]

GnW feels really good now. I think he's in a good spot.

 

[scuba_steve757]

2 frames that makes the differene if you see the frame data. Bucket nerf also makes laser camping a thing again, neutral game is **** vs Fox thanks to that again.

You know you can duck under Fox's lasers, right?

 

[felipe_9595]

You know you can duck under Fox's lasers, right?

He can change the height of the lasers.

 

[trevor0001]

Tell me how Fox gets 0 to deathed? I need a pamphlet on some of this stuff haha

 

[jtm94]

chain grab to guaranteed charged fsmash that goes under platforms.

 

[felipe_9595]

chain grab to guaranteed charged fsmash that goes under platforms.

Tested, absolutely not a 0 to death because you need to perfectly read the di for 20 consecutive grabs, and after 50% they can tech on the platform above.

 

[jtm94]

The amount of time that GnW has to react to the DI is pretty easy to execute on reaction and my reaction speed is slightly below average I'm not special or a god.

To each their own.

 

[trevor0001]

So its upthrow.

 

[Experiment 5]

meh. WD back -> dtilt is still suuuuuuper strong against fox, chaingrab still works, upthrow -> parachute is still free AF, downsmash still kills at 80%, upair -> uptilt combos are still good...as per usual the only struggle you'll have is when the opponent realizes that they can camp out gdubs and he fizzles, but that's true of every opposing character, not just fox.

Fox probably wins this 55/45 now, as opposed to 50/50 or even 55/45 in gdubs' favor from 3.5. Still not terrible.

I'd worry about snake more lol

also, I've never heard of the charged f-smash thing post-chaingrab. I'm going to SG today so I might try it out.

 

[jtm94]

charged fsmash is easier imo out of the chaingrab because it's his fastest smash. if you can get hilt hitbox of dsmash Fox probably just dies.

 

[Soft Serve]

In FD, which is a CP, any stage with a paltform denies the 0 do death. And the up b was to escape multishien, we cant now

Fox's double shine isn't as much of a threat anymore because it's an air shine (which has a 30 degree ange+no tumble launch now), and thus if it hits your roll oos you can act as soon as you land. Fox/gnw might have gotten Harder some places but two frames on your up-b is hardly a problem when fox don't get frame advantage on double shine

 

[jtm94]

The bigger change is the change to bucket making it garbage against him instead of stupidly uber deadly.

 

[felipe_9595]

Fox's double shine isn't as much of a threat anymore because it's an air shine (which has a 30 degree ange+no tumble launch now), and thus if it hits your roll oos you can act as soon as you land. Fox/gnw might have gotten Harder some places but two frames on your up-b is hardly a problem when fox don't get frame advantage on double shine

The second shine is not aerial, is a grounded shine, thats how fox double/multishine works.

 

[Soft Serve]

The second shine is not aerial, is a grounded shine, thats how fox double/multishine works.

No it's not lol.

It's
1. shine (hitlag)
2. Wait
3.wait
4. Jump squat
5. Jump squat
6 jump squat
7 shine first frame airborne, hitlag
8. Stall in air for a frame
9. Land
10. Jump squat


I can 100% assure you that doubleshine and shine OoS are air hit shine.

 

[Scuba Steve]

Felipe has a habit of being consistently wrong, despite being overwhelmingly sure that he's right and that he could also rek u in turny m8

 

[felipe_9595]

No it's not lol.

It's
1. shine (hitlag)
2. Wait
3.wait
4. Jump squat
5. Jump squat
6 jump squat
7 shine first frame airborne, hitlag
8. Stall in air for a frame
9. Land
10. Jump squat


I can 100% assure you that doubleshine and shine OoS are air hit shine.

Yeah searched about in Melee frame data, you are correct and i stand corrected, i though the shine came out as grounded but as you point it's in fact aerials and it lands.

Felipe has a habit of being consistently wrong, despite being overwhelmingly sure that he's right and that he could also rek u in turny m8

Do i know you??