So... Doesn't Ken have the FIRE Hadoken? Seriously??? [READ THE FIRST POST BEFORE YOU REPLY]

[Marmotbro]

How does a game that marked a boom in the modern fighting game genre can be considered a classic?? If it is a "boom" from the modern games, he is modern, not a classic.

Is Halo a classic? Because it was the thing that made modern FPS a thing.

If the "inky aftereffects" were "definitely" iconic, this move wouldn't be gone in SFV.

Would you consider any character from SF2 other then Ryu and Ken "classic?" Because SF3 did not have them. SF does that all the time.

It is relevant to the argument because if the Focus Attack was so iconic and relevant, they wouldn't had removed it on the new game. If they removed it, it is because this move IS NOT so iconic. Did they ever remove the Hadoken? the Shoryuken? the Tatsumaki Sepuu Kyaku?

Nintendo will NEVER remove the FALCON PUNCH from Captain Falcon's moveset, because this move is VERY iconic, it is the most iconic move originated from Smash Bros., this is an example of an iconic move, not the Focus Attack which it was discarded by Capcom itself.

Capcom is not Nintendo. Capcom has a history of removing iconic things from their franchises. Look at Megaman, Resident Evil, even their own fighting game MvC. Nintendo, like you said, does not. But none of that means they should add something from SF5.

 

[Shieldlesscap]

How does a game that marked a boom in the modern fighting game genre can be considered a classic?? If it is a "boom" from the modern games, he is modern, not a classic.


If the "inky aftereffects" were "definitely" iconic, this move wouldn't be gone in SFV.



It is relevant to the argument because if the Focus Attack was so iconic and relevant, they wouldn't had removed it on the new game. If they removed it, it is because this move IS NOT so iconic. Did they ever remove the Hadoken? the Shoryuken? the Tatsumaki Sepuu Kyaku?

Nintendo will NEVER remove the FALCON PUNCH from Captain Falcon's moveset, because this move is VERY iconic, it is the most iconic move originated from Smash Bros., this is an example of an iconic move, not the Focus Attack which it was discarded by Capcom itself.

If we're going by that logic, Ken's having Shakunetsu Hadoken in one game isn't iconic either which is why Nintendo discarded this when making Ken.

Also, um, the inky effects ARE in SFV?

Anyway, to go back to the points you made in response to mine:
A. No, it's associated with Ken's VT, not Ken, unless you want to argue that Ryu is now an electric-user
B. No, that's giving a character moves from multiple games, fire roundhouse kicks are moves that don't exist, period
C. No, adding a meter to a character like Ken and Ryu would make the character gimmicky. You'd effectively be making a fundamentals character who gets kills using something similar to Limit.
D. Yes, let's give Ryu a move that takes away one of his best Neutral tools, represents something that feels like SFV specifically rather than something that feels like SF as a whole (The concept of Focus is much more "fighting" than the concept of VT)

 

[Young Link.]

Is Halo a classic? Because it was the thing that made modern FPS a thing.

Halo has 17 years old though.

Would you consider any character from SF2 other then Ryu and Ken "classic?" Because SF3 did not have them. SF does that all the time.

Yes, you're right here. Yet Focus Attack isn't in the same level as the 3 main Ken/Ryu's moves. And this doesn't mean that the Focus Attack is iconic/classic. And even if it was, this isn't reason to not put a SFV move in Smash.

If we're going by that logic, Ken's having Shakunetsu Hadoken in one game isn't iconic either which is why Nintendo discarded this when making Ken.

But, then they put the Focus Attack? That it is in just one game? It doesn't make sense.

Anyway, to go back to the points you made in response to mine:
A. No, it's associated with Ken's VT, not Ken, unless you want to argue that Ryu is now an electric-user
B. No, that's giving a character moves from multiple games, fire roundhouse kicks are moves that don't exist, period
C. No, adding a meter to a character like Ken and Ryu would make the character gimmicky. You'd effectively be making a fundamentals character who gets kills using something similar to Limit.
D. Yes, let's give Ryu a move that takes away one of his best Neutral tools, represents something that feels like SFV specifically rather than something that feels like SF as a whole (The concept of Focus is much more "fighting" than the concept of VT)

A. Ken V-Trigger or not, it's a technique from Ken, you cannot say it isn't a Ken's move just because it is from V-Trigger. And yes, Ryu is a electric user in Street Fighter V.
B. By what I know Focus Attack is only in SFIV.
C. This is a question of opinion, you don't think this is good, I think it would be good.
D. Again, that is your opinion. I think the concept of V-Trigger is as much "fighting" as the Focus Attack.

 

[Marmotbro]

Halo has 17 years old though.

So? "Classic" doesn't mean old. I consider Lisa: The Painful, Minecraft, Hotline Miami, Dark Souls, Darkest Dungeon all classics and they are newer then SF4.

Yet Focus Attack isn't in the same level as the 3 main Ken/Ryu's moves. And this doesn't mean that the Focus Attack is iconic/classic. And even if it was, this isn't reason to not put a SFV move in Smash.

Fair enough. Lemme give you a reason. The project plan on SSMU finished in 2015, meaning SF5 wasnot out at the time. They were going for a classic street fighter feel, and they already had a move set in smash 4 that reflected that. Could they have changed it around during development? Yes. but it is easier and more fitting not to, as they could have already finished the design for Ken at the time.

also I like the new sig, and I hate to be that guy but for it to be grammatically accurate it should be either "Welcome to the internet, where stating your opinion is a declaration of war" or "Welcome to the internet, where 'state your opinion' is a declaration of war." Note this has nothing to do with the argument, and I'm not using it in the argument to ad hominem, English is hard.

 

[Young Link.]

So, they incorporated changes from recent Street Fighter titles, this means that not everything needs to be necessarily classic. But even if everything needs to be necessarily classic, Ken having a Fire Hadoken is not out of his character, it embodies the character, it's just not what Sakurai was looking for at the time. In the end of the day it was Sakurai's choice, not something that not fit to the character.

You can argue that the V-Trigger (and the Ken's fire powers) is something that doesn't fit as "classic" (yet), but not that is something Ken is not supposed to have.

 

[Marmotbro]

Ken having a Fire Hadoken is not out of his character, it embodies the character

Maybe in Street Fighter 5. But not overall. No one except people who only played SF5 thinks that. It's as if someone argued that a bionic arm embodied Snake's character. It just really doesn't.

 

[Young Link.]

Maybe in Street Fighter 5. But not overall. No one except people who only played SF5 thinks that. It's as if someone argued that a bionic arm embodied Snake's character. It just really doesn't.

Still, it embodies the character and fall in line with the Ken's style.
I still disagree with Sakurai's decision to not give Ken the Fire Hadoken.

Another way they could give the Ken's "Fire" Hadoken is to put it as Easter Egg, the same way he had it in Street Fighter II. It would be nice.

Other thing that would be cool to see, it was said that Ryu was based in Street Fighter II, but his appearance is not from Street Fighter II, I think this Ryu has a cooler appearance and embodies the feeling of Street Fighter II much better.

 

[Marmotbro]

Still, it embodies the character and fall in line with the Ken's style.

How so? It's only a thing in SF5.

Other way they could give the Ken's Fire Hadoken is put it as Easter Egg, the same way he had it in Street Fighter II.

that'd be cool.

 

[Young Link.]

How so? It's only a thing in SF5.

Street Fighter V is a Street Fighter thing though.
Of course, they would have to base Ken's moves in SFV too, I think it's possible to mix the Street Fighter V's techniques/moves with the others Street Fighter titles.
But the Easter Egg it'd be a great detail Sakurai could've done.

 

[Marmotbro]

Street Fighter V is a Street Fighter thing though.

yeah but it is also the newest. like i said before, for 29 years before SF5 came out Ken did not have the fire hadoken. It would be like if you said travelling around in the Odyssey defines Mario's character, or having a Sheika Stone defines Link's.

 

[Young Link.]

yeah but it is also the newest. like i said before, for 29 years before SF5 came out Ken did not have the fire hadoken. It would be like if you said travelling around in the Odyssey defines Mario's character, or having a Sheika Stone defines Link's.

Dude, I don't care what "defines" Ken.
I don't care if Ken only uses the Fire Hadoken in ONE game, if he uses the Fire Hadoken in ONE game he HAS the RIGHT to use the FIRE HADOKEN in Smash.
It's like Link who has moves from Zelda Breath of the Wild.

Doesn't matter how many times you or anyone says otherwise.

Seriously, I don't get why you guys care SO MUCH about my opinion...

 

[Luigifan18]

Dude, I don't care what "defines" Ken.
I don't care if Ken only uses the Fire Hadoken in ONE game, if he uses the Fire Hadoken in ONE game he HAS the RIGHT to use the FIRE HADOKEN in Smash.
It's like Link who has moves from Zelda Breath of the Wild.

Doesn't matter how many times you or anyone says otherwise.

Seriously, I don't get why you guys care SO MUCH about my opinion...

I'm not sure if they care about your opinion or just like watching you be triggered...

 

[Young Link.]

I'm not sure if they care about your opinion or just like watching you be triggered...

Cool (y)

Still, this doesn't change the fact that Ken's Fire Hadoken is legitimate, cannon and he has all the right to have it in Smash. And he will probably have it in Smash 6.

Still, Ken is awesome in Smash 5.

And it will not change my opinion.

Good night e a great Ken's FIRE HADOKEN to everyone.

 

[DeKu Skrub]

If you were a cool kid and actually played CPS2 fighting games, you'd be complaining that his hadoken isn't green. You see, child, in Marvel Super Heroes vs. Street Fighter AND Street Fighter Alpha 3, Ken's fireball is green.

 

[Marmotbro]

Seriously, I don't get why you guys care SO MUCH about my opinion...

I just like arguing. It not malicious, its just fun to butt heads for me.

Good night e a great Ken's FIRE HADOKEN to everyone.

Yeah we have reached an impasse. See you in the next thread, and good show.

 

[ramon_zer0]

Dude, I don't care what "defines" Ken.
I don't care if Ken only uses the Fire Hadoken in ONE game, if he uses the Fire Hadoken in ONE game he HAS the RIGHT to use the FIRE HADOKEN in Smash.
It's like Link who has moves from Zelda Breath of the Wild.

Doesn't matter how many times you or anyone says otherwise.

Seriously, I don't get why you guys care SO MUCH about my opinion...

It isn't about that, per se. It's more about these points, I feel:

• You're complaining about something that's still pretty inconsequential and silly. Argue about Ken being able to shoot actual fireballs in V-Trigger 1 all you want - that's still legit, but you're in the minority when it comes to people who actually want him to do the same thing here in Smash when that remains the only instance of him ever doing it while it's always been more of Ryu and Akuma's thing.
• You've gone so far as to make an actual board complaining about this - again - very minor issue.
• In the end, Ken is what he is as of this moment. Is this going to change if he ever shows up in Smash 6? Who knows. Only thing you, me and anyone else who wants to do stuff with him is to just deal with it.